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Harsh prison sentences are fucking over black families big time.

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    Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This whole line of discussion is tangential to the real problem. The problem isn't the harsh sentences, or black women in some way; its the high rate of criminal activity among young black men.

    It seems like there's a vicious cycle going on. Black women don't get married, so their kids grow up without a father, so the kids fall in to crime, get sentenced very harshly, and then they can't be good husbands or fathers.

    Pi-r8 on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    I only read the first 3 pages. But it's clear to me that people are afraid of being 'racist' and are simply turning a blind eye on a problem.

    Why are white women more attractive then black women? It's simple, really.

    First of all, look at everyones avatars and signatures. How many of them have pictures of pretty women of them? How many of those pretty women are black? I have yet come across one avatar or signature that have a black anyone in them.

    Now lets look on a broader aspect.

    Growing up, all throughout my life, I am rescuing princess from some evil dinosaur or something. What color where those princess? White.

    Growing up, I have seen the hero hooking up with the girl. What color was the girl 98% of the time? White.

    At the grocery stores, I am bombarded with images of how beauty should look like. What color are those models 98% of the time? White.

    The reason why there is a desire for white women is because we live in a predominate white culture that teaches us, from a young age, to desire white women with certain aspects. Ignoring this, turning a blind eye, and calling everyone who bring this up a 'troll' is a as racist thing to do then advocating that all black men are criminals.
    But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    There's also white womens' ability to afford gym memberships and botanical doohickeys.

    Scalfin on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I have yet come across one avatar or signature that have a black anyone in them.

    <- sorry I couldn't resist

    edit
    But to actually contribute, while I definitely find your hypothesis appealing, I have to bring up the counterpoint of Asian women. IMO Asian women enjoy the same status as whites in terms of their desirability, and they don't have a century's worth of mass media endorsement, and they are a smaller minority than black women.

    perhaps the perception is more due to black women being perceived as being from a lower socio economic rung, and perhaps therefore as a group less "cultured" or endowed with traits considered appealingly feminine by the white males who set the cultural agenda.

    Sam on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The reason why there is a desire for white women is because we live in a predominate white culture that teaches us, from a young age, to desire white women with certain aspects. Ignoring this, turning a blind eye, and calling everyone who bring this up a 'troll' is a as racist thing to do then advocating that all black men are criminals.

    While I don't disagree with many of your assertions, I would argue that there is a disconnect from the reality of the situation.

    Men (all men) aren't so much favoring Whiteness in women as they are rejecting Blackness, which doesn't exactly follow from the statements you made in your post. Heroines and love interests today run the gamut of ethnicity; White, Asian, Arab-Persian, Eastern European, Anglo, Latina, North African . . . pretty much everything except purely Sub-Saharan African. Even the popular African-American models and celebrities tend to side on the extremely light-toned.

    Yet as a culture, Western society isn't really ingrained with anti-Africanism any more so than it is anything else.

    Atomika on
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    ಠ_ರೃಠ_ರೃ __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    This whole line of discussion is tangential to the real problem. The problem isn't the harsh sentences, or black women in some way; its the high rate of criminal activity among young black men.

    It seems like there's a vicious cycle going on. Black women don't get married, so their kids grow up without a father, so the kids fall in to crime, get sentenced very harshly, and then they can't be good husbands or fathers.



    I actually saw a study somewhere that showed Black men who married outside of their race were less likely to commit crimes than those who married exclusively to Black women. Will try to find it.

    ಠ_ರೃ on
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Men (all men) aren't so much favoring Whiteness in women as they are rejecting Blackness, which doesn't exactly follow from the statements you made in your post. Heroines and love interests today run the gamut of ethnicity; White, Asian, Arab-Persian, Eastern European, Anglo, Latina, North African . . . pretty much everything except purely Sub-Saharan African. Even the popular African-American models and celebrities tend to side on the extremely light-toned.

    Oddly enough I really struggle to find male asians as love interests in tv shows or films. Just one of those things that somebody mentioned to me and has been bothering me ever since (this doesn't count the Kung Fu exception!).

    surrealitycheck on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Men (all men) aren't so much favoring Whiteness in women as they are rejecting Blackness, which doesn't exactly follow from the statements you made in your post. Heroines and love interests today run the gamut of ethnicity; White, Asian, Arab-Persian, Eastern European, Anglo, Latina, North African . . . pretty much everything except purely Sub-Saharan African. Even the popular African-American models and celebrities tend to side on the extremely light-toned.

    Oddly enough I really struggle to find male asians as love interests in tv shows or films. Just one of those things that somebody mentioned to me and has been bothering me ever since (this doesn't count the Kung Fu exception!).


    Agreed. I think there are simply cultural values assigned to gender roles for each racial faction, and Asian men and Black women have gotten the short end of the stick. Racism certainly isn't a major factor, as Black men and Asian women do fairly well outside their race.

    Atomika on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Men (all men) aren't so much favoring Whiteness in women as they are rejecting Blackness, which doesn't exactly follow from the statements you made in your post. Heroines and love interests today run the gamut of ethnicity; White, Asian, Arab-Persian, Eastern European, Anglo, Latina, North African . . . pretty much everything except purely Sub-Saharan African. Even the popular African-American models and celebrities tend to side on the extremely light-toned.

    Oddly enough I really struggle to find male asians as love interests in tv shows or films. Just one of those things that somebody mentioned to me and has been bothering me ever since (this doesn't count the Kung Fu exception!).

    Even African American and Sub Saharan African cultures value lighter skin complexions over darker. It certainly seems to be applied far more harshly to women than men across all cultures as well. Most Indian women run from african-black to mocha brown, yet the women you see in popular Indian media are as white as caucasians.

    Sam on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Men (all men) aren't so much favoring Whiteness in women as they are rejecting Blackness, which doesn't exactly follow from the statements you made in your post. Heroines and love interests today run the gamut of ethnicity; White, Asian, Arab-Persian, Eastern European, Anglo, Latina, North African . . . pretty much everything except purely Sub-Saharan African. Even the popular African-American models and celebrities tend to side on the extremely light-toned.

    Oddly enough I really struggle to find male asians as love interests in tv shows or films. Just one of those things that somebody mentioned to me and has been bothering me ever since (this doesn't count the Kung Fu exception!).


    Agreed. I think there are simply cultural values assigned to gender roles for each racial faction, and Asian men and Black women have gotten the short end of the stick. Racism certainly isn't a major factor, as Black men and Asian women do fairly well outside their race.

    I can't help but think the media plays a huge part. Black men enjoy cultural currency that black women don't, due to their visibility as athletic and cultural icons. Asian women are portrayed as sexualized and exotic while Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    Sam on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    You need to watch more "The Mentalist":

    No business like Cho business

    On the other hand,that show only has one black character.

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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Cho is actually a really good exception, as his girlfriend in that show is incredibly hot (and it's implied that he's pretty much the most manly character in the whole series).

    surrealitycheck on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    You need to watch more "The Mentalist":

    No business like Cho business

    On the other hand,that show only has one black character.

    Yes and Lost is another good example. But media from the 21st century has far less momentum in terms of cultural influence and perception shaping- and arguably Hollywood, unlike TV, is as conservative as it ever was, or it's at least in the same place as the 90s.

    Sam on
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The reason that asian men are seen as unattrative is the exact same reason the reverse is seen as true of asian women. That is, during the colonial period the colonized (especially outside of Africa) were seen as almost hyper-feminised, which obviously influenced post-colonial culture.

    Leitner on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    I can't help but think the media plays a huge part. Black men enjoy cultural currency that black women don't, due to their visibility as athletic and cultural icons. Asian women are portrayed as sexualized and exotic while Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    It's what I was saying about Western cultural value assignments. Everyone has their niche, and Asian men and Black women just have the sexually least-appealing niche. It's stereotyping, but I'm not sure that it's the same thing as being racist.

    Atomika on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    I can't help but think the media plays a huge part. Black men enjoy cultural currency that black women don't, due to their visibility as athletic and cultural icons. Asian women are portrayed as sexualized and exotic while Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    It's what I was saying about Western cultural value assignments. Everyone has their niche, and Asian men and Black women just have the sexually least-appealing niche. It's stereotyping, but I'm not sure that it's the same thing as being racist.

    I'm pretty sure that Indian/Arabian dudes are bottom of the food chain, below Asian men and Black women :P

    Sam on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    The reason that asian men are seen as unattrative is the exact same reason the reverse is seen as true of asian women. That is, during the colonial period the colonized (especially outside of Africa) were seen as almost hyper-feminised, which obviously influenced post-colonial culture.

    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    Atomika on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It's just that Westerners are more likely to have access to Japanese media than Chinese or Korean (or any other Asian)

    Anime is marketable. And tends to portray Japanese men in a favorable light.

    Sam on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    I can't help but think the media plays a huge part. Black men enjoy cultural currency that black women don't, due to their visibility as athletic and cultural icons. Asian women are portrayed as sexualized and exotic while Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    It's what I was saying about Western cultural value assignments. Everyone has their niche, and Asian men and Black women just have the sexually least-appealing niche. It's stereotyping, but I'm not sure that it's the same thing as being racist.

    I'm pretty sure that Indian/Arabian dudes are bottom of the food chain, below Asian men and Black women :P

    I'd disagree. While there may be less representation in media of Arab/Persian/Indian men in Western media, their sexual appeal and masculinity is rarely questioned. If anything, they're often portrayed as overly swarthy.

    Atomika on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    It's just that Westerners are more likely to have access to Japanese media than Chinese or Korean (or any other Asian)

    Anime is marketable. And tends to portray Japanese men in a favorable light.

    Well, it portrays Japanese men well,but they are drawn. An anime man and a real japanese man are totally different.

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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    Leitner on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    I can't help but think the media plays a huge part. Black men enjoy cultural currency that black women don't, due to their visibility as athletic and cultural icons. Asian women are portrayed as sexualized and exotic while Asian men are either invisible or emasculated stock characters.

    It's what I was saying about Western cultural value assignments. Everyone has their niche, and Asian men and Black women just have the sexually least-appealing niche. It's stereotyping, but I'm not sure that it's the same thing as being racist.

    I'm pretty sure that Indian/Arabian dudes are bottom of the food chain, below Asian men and Black women :P

    I'd disagree. While there may be less representation in media of Arab/Persian/Indian men in Western media, their sexual appeal and masculinity is rarely questioned. If anything, they're often portrayed as overly swarthy.

    That sounds a bit pre 9/11. The impression of their perception that I get is that they're at best sysadmins/friendly gas station owners and at worst backwards, hairy and smelly. To say nothing of islamophobia and lumping Indians in with Arabs on sight.

    Sam on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sam wrote: »
    It's just that Westerners are more likely to have access to Japanese media than Chinese or Korean (or any other Asian).

    I don't think this is true at all.

    For one thing, we get plenty of access to Chinese media. Certainly as much as we do of Japanese. And I personally don't watch anime at all.

    I feel that other Asian groups (Koreans, Vietnamese, et al) have more alien cultures and vague sexuality, which doesn't jibe with Western preconceptions and conventions, whereas the Japanese are very Western in their values.

    Atomika on
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    RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    ಠ_ರೃ wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    This whole line of discussion is tangential to the real problem. The problem isn't the harsh sentences, or black women in some way; its the high rate of criminal activity among young black men.

    It seems like there's a vicious cycle going on. Black women don't get married, so their kids grow up without a father, so the kids fall in to crime, get sentenced very harshly, and then they can't be good husbands or fathers.



    I actually saw a study somewhere that showed Black men who married outside of their race were less likely to commit crimes than those who married exclusively to Black women. Will try to find it.

    Off the top of my head that seems like having more to do with the fact that (anyone) who marries outside their race is probably middle-class or upper-class.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    On the one hand - but you also get yakuza/samurai/ninjas on the other. They can run the gamut.

    surrealitycheck on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't watch anime either, but its popularity/visibility is undeniable and there is no Chinese or Korean equivalent. Video games have also been another huge inlet for Japanese culture, which along with anime and manga for part of a sizable subculture that many are at least vaguely aware of.

    Sam on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    Atomika on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think the insinuation that having an absent father implies a lack of a father figure and that this also leads to crime is a bit misleading. Its not a problem of a woman having a child on her own, its a problem of people not knowing how to raise children.

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    Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    hahaha what? You're completely wrong.

    Pi-r8 on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    hahaha what? You're completely wrong.

    Um, no. Not at all.

    Atomika on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Look, the west has far more access to Japanese media than Chinese or Korean. And by access I mean it's more popular and visible. Of course someone living in the west can "access" any culture they want to, I was talking more about what has marketshare and popular awareness.

    Also, I think it's naive to say Japanese culture has much in common with Western culture.

    Sam on
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    Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    hahaha what? You're completely wrong.

    Um, no. Not at all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
    Japan: 5'7.5"
    China: 5'8"
    Korea: 5'8.5"

    I guess the samurai movies show guys being aggressive, but that's just martial arts movies. Japanese businessmen? super polite.

    Pi-r8 on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    But the media that IS the most successful over here portrays a completely wrong and absolutely alien impression of Japanese men and women. Actually, I would say that most Anime characters look western more than asian.

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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    hahaha what? You're completely wrong.

    Um, no. Not at all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
    Japan: 5'7.5"
    China: 5'8"
    Korea: 5'8.5"

    I guess the samurai movies show guys being aggressive, but that's just martial arts movies. Japanese businessmen? super polite.

    By polite you mean that he'll let you go missing one finger, instead of missing one's head?


    And I would argue that Indian women are less desirable then black women. They have the same exotic that Asian women shares.

    Casually Hardcore on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think the insinuation that having an absent father implies a lack of a father figure and that this also leads to crime is a bit misleading. Its not a problem of a woman having a child on her own, its a problem of people not knowing how to raise children.

    It's a strange thing.

    In my work, I see a lot of teenage pregnancy, and the cultural values ascribed to the situation change dramatically depending on race (generally speaking, natch).

    Hispanic culture tends to provide most support to the young mother, with the entire family chipping in to help however they can. The biggest downside is that it young pregnancies in that culture often are treated like happy occasions and not at all the obstacle and imposition that other cultures would ascribe to them. However, most young Hispanic moms seem to get on with their life afterward, staying in school, getting good jobs, whathaveyou, often marrying the father of their child(ren).

    Black girls seem to have the complete opposite situation. They usually come alone, have no support, and generally are planning to drop out of school if they haven't already. And they almost always are on government assistance, lending to a feeling of institutionalized poverty and acceptance of failure. And these young girls often continue to have more children in a short span, worsening their dire straits, and too often are verbally and physically abusive parents. They rarely marry.


    At the lower socio-economic levels, successful parenting doesn't appear to be a common aspiration for Black communities.

    Atomika on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Facts have little to do with stereotypes. People are not intelligent enough or simply don't care enough to distinguish between most Asian people like that. Korean people are going to be lumped in with Japanese people in US stereotypes.

    Couscous on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Klyka wrote: »
    But the media that IS the most successful over here portrays a completely wrong and absolutely alien impression of Japanese men and women. Actually, I would say that most Anime characters look western more than asian.

    The big eyes come from Disney cartoons, the hair is partly from trying to differentiate between simply-drawn characters, some genres call for Western characters, and multi-racial groups are more fun to draw for most artists.

    Incenjucar on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Hispanic culture tends to provide most support to the young mother, with the entire family chipping in to help however they can. The biggest downside is that it young pregnancies in that culture often are treated like happy occasions and not at all the obstacle and imposition that other cultures would ascribe to them. However, most young Hispanic moms seem to get on with their life afterward, staying in school, getting good jobs, whathaveyou, often marrying the father of their child(ren).

    Coming a large Mexican family, I see this happen very often with regards to having the whole family pitching in to help the young mother. Sadly, they're, more often then not, single moms. The fathers either just don't care, or the mother simply refuse to have anything to do with the fathers. Why? IDK.

    Also, coming from a large black family, a common trend with a black family is to 'kick them out the curb and have them deal with it on their own'. Literally. I've seen teenage black girls called a 'whore', by there mothers, and toss out to the streets. Why? IDK.

    Before anyone decides to be smart. I'm half black and half Mexican.

    Casually Hardcore on
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    TehSlothTehSloth Hit Or Miss I Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    I think that, in some part, Japanese men are largely omitted from that stereotype for whatever reason. Personally, I'd chalk it up to their more Westernized culture and their physical differences from other Asian ethnicities.

    What, small guys, either nerds or studious office workers, and incredibly polite.

    That doesn't exactly scream masculine to me?

    The Western stereotype of Japanese men describes a bold, forceful, masculine energy. Businessmen, Samurai, et al. Quiet, but not shy to act. And Japanese men are taller than their continental counterparts, often by almost a half foot.

    You're describing a Korean stereotype.

    hahaha what? You're completely wrong.

    Um, no. Not at all.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#Average_height_around_the_world
    Japan: 5'7.5"
    China: 5'8"
    Korea: 5'8.5"

    I guess the samurai movies show guys being aggressive, but that's just martial arts movies. Japanese businessmen? super polite.

    By polite you mean that he'll let you go missing one finger, instead of missing one's head?


    And I would argue that Indian women are less desirable then black women. They have the same exotic that Asian women shares.

    You mean more? Also, I'd say that although I like to think I'm at least as sensitive to race issues as your standard culturally deficient white-guy, but if I were to strike up a conversation with someone who is Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Japanese all I'm seeing is Asian. I went to school with a lot of Vietnamese kids, and I don't know if it was because there were so many of them that other groups seemed muted, but there was never any real distinction drawn.

    Then again, I could just be racist.

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    RanadielRanadiel Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So back on the original topic of prison sentences, black families and black culture. When you look at the roots of the issue, you see that it's a problem that doesn't affect blacks exclusively, but they are the most commonly affected as they tend to live in the most poverty stricken urban areas.

    Society cannot start issuing lighter punishments for people of one particular race, even if it has overarching social consequences. One possible solution is lighter sentences or decriminalization for certain offenses across the board, but then that opens up an entirely new can of worms. If we decriminalize some drug related crimes, it's reasonable to assume that overall drug use will go up, which will result in more people becoming casual drug users - or worse - new addicts. And that's just one example.

    The simplest, and most obvious solution I can think of is for people to stop breaking the law. Of course, the simplest of ideas can often be the most complicated to execute. A lot of urban areas suffer from corrupt or incompetant government, overpopulation, horrible public education programs, generational poverty, and widespread lack of jobs available to an unskilled workforce. With nothing to do, nowhere to go, and a lack of proper education, many end up turning to drugs and crime as a means to survive. It's hard to justify locking people up for doing what they can to just get by, but it's even harder to just look the other way when their chosen means are breaking the law.

    It will be a massive undertaking to really solve the core issues. One could make the arguement that healthcare is one step in the right direction, but what we really need to see are more jobs, more urban redevelopment, a restructured education system that better incorporates parental involvement, and jobs, jobs, jobs. Keep the people in the schools or at the workplace, and there will be fewer left to roam the streets.

    Ranadiel on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think the insinuation that having an absent father implies a lack of a father figure and that this also leads to crime is a bit misleading. Its not a problem of a woman having a child on her own, its a problem of people not knowing how to raise children.

    The problem, that the article seems to actually talk about and not whatever crazy shit happened to this thread for most of it, is that because of high incarceration rates, blacks are much more likely to grow up in single parent families. Which are, economically and socially, much less stable on average.

    This leads to into a downward spiral where less stable households lead to higher incarceration rates, which leads to less stable households in the next generation and so on.

    As the original article says, one of the major issues is so many black men locked up for trivial, nothing offenses.

    And hence, we get back to the horrible socio-economic evil that is Mandatory Minimum Sentencing.



    You can't just tell Black People "Be better parents" or "Do less crime", you need to provide the socio-economic foundation for the "black community" or whatever (probably more accurately the poor, urban community) to be able to succeed.

    shryke on
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