As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Apple To Developers: Fuck You

1679111229

Posts

  • nescientistnescientist Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think a lot of people are rightly paranoid about messing with their iPod using any software other than iTunes. Even with iTunes I know I managed (as a reasonably tech-savvy kid) to nuke a bunch of irreplaceable music on one ancient iPod because I didn't understand the insane "associate with this library?" system. I'd messed with a friend's Creative 4gb "jukebox" player and owned an iRiver device myself, so I went into the process with certain assumptions about the way mp3 players work, namely that you can put stuff on them and take stuff off and that this is a universal thing. The notion that Apple would be thinking different in this regard had not occurred to me.

    nescientist on
    Carl Sagan wrote:
    The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars.
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    iTunes is a pretty terrible program when you get right down to it. The user interface is nigh impenetrable when you're trying to understand what it's actually doing.

    electricitylikesme on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think a lot of people are rightly paranoid about messing with their iPod using any software other than iTunes. Even with iTunes I know I managed (as a reasonably tech-savvy kid) to nuke a bunch of irreplaceable music on one ancient iPod because I didn't understand the insane "associate with this library?" system. I'd messed with a friend's Creative 4gb "jukebox" player and owned an iRiver device myself, so I went into the process with certain assumptions about the way mp3 players work, namely that you can put stuff on them and take stuff off and that this is a universal thing. The notion that Apple would be thinking different in this regard had not occurred to me.

    Don't forget that the big marketing line for Apple is that everything is easy and "just works".

    Non-iTunes options are not that simple to be informed of and set-up for the type of person who refers to the iphone as "magic"

    Evander on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Eh. "Just works" is marketing BS. iTunes doesn't respect all sorts of basic conventions, it's number one achievement is that it installs your music folder into it's library and then automatically copies all of it to an iPod. That's about it.

    electricitylikesme on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think a lot of people are rightly paranoid about messing with their iPod using any software other than iTunes. Even with iTunes I know I managed (as a reasonably tech-savvy kid) to nuke a bunch of irreplaceable music on one ancient iPod because I didn't understand the insane "associate with this library?" system. I'd messed with a friend's Creative 4gb "jukebox" player and owned an iRiver device myself, so I went into the process with certain assumptions about the way mp3 players work, namely that you can put stuff on them and take stuff off and that this is a universal thing. The notion that Apple would be thinking different in this regard had not occurred to me.

    the thing is that most other software will ask you before formatting the I-pod.

    Unless it's music that was bought, then that can't really be transferred as I understand. But you should have the option to just log in on i-tunes and re-download. Right? I mean that would be logical.

    DanHibiki on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Eh. "Just works" is marketing BS.

    Sure, but that doesn't stop it from getting repeated by everyone.

    This was my point earlier about Apple marketing being the sole source of information for too much of the market.

    Evander on
  • PerpetualPerpetual Registered User
    edited April 2010
    I find iTunes to be very organized, and Genius is... well, genius.

    Perpetual on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That is of course more a problem with the music industry trying to have it both ways: they want to only sell you a music license, but want to treat that license as though its a scarce commodity - which is bullshit.

    Either of it's data, in which case once I own it I can do what I please with it, or it's a license to use that data, in which case I should be able to redownload it as much as I like. Nonetheless, I was blown away when I realized that for all iTunes "must register on only 5 PCs" BS, that I couldn't in fact redownload music I had bought at any time.

    Basically - if Valve moved into music distribution with Steam, I would be all over that.

    electricitylikesme on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Eh. "Just works" is marketing BS.

    Sure, but that doesn't stop it from getting repeated by everyone.

    This was my point earlier about Apple marketing being the sole source of information for too much of the market.

    Of course. The main thing they've done is overcome people's natural aversion to clicking buttons. It's that thing where people ask the "tech" person how to do shit, and you can usually solve the problem coz you simply go looking for an option that sounds like what you want without actually knowing what works.

    In my experience with most programs people simply get paralyzed with fear about it - once you get them to overcome that, they're fine. Apple's marketing coup has been to convince people that with Apple programs, it will just work - even though it usually doesn't, they feel like it's safe to click buttons.

    electricitylikesme on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    the level of rhetoric is pretty low, honestly.

    I mean, drop "wrath of steve", and nothing in the hyperlinks are really all that subjective

    "Other than that, how was the show, Mrs. Lincoln?"

    yes, "wrath of steve" is in ANY way comparable to the assassination of a president.

    goose

    Think about this now. We have a thread called Israel Apartheid and Ross is bitching because of the relatively mild tone of the thread title and links.

    That's pretty damn thin-skinned in my opinion considering there's a pretty large enough counter posting of 'no wait Apple's awesome guys' in this thread.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • AtomikaAtomika Cinema Vampire (alleged) Trans 🏳️‍⚧️ SylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kagera wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    the level of rhetoric is pretty low, honestly.

    I mean, drop "wrath of steve", and nothing in the hyperlinks are really all that subjective

    "Other than that, how was the show, Mrs. Lincoln?"

    yes, "wrath of steve" is in ANY way comparable to the assassination of a president.

    goose

    Think about this now. We have a thread called Israel Apartheid and Ross is bitching because of the relatively mild tone of the thread title and links.

    That's pretty damn thin-skinned in my opinion considering there's a pretty large enough counter posting of 'no wait Apple's awesome guys' in this thread.

    If you'll go back, I think you'll see it was Protein Shakes asking for special treatment.

    I was just commenting on Evander's handwaving regarding how words like "bullshit" and "wrath of Steve" weren't "all that subjective."

    Atomika on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think a lot of people are rightly paranoid about messing with their iPod using any software other than iTunes. Even with iTunes I know I managed (as a reasonably tech-savvy kid) to nuke a bunch of irreplaceable music on one ancient iPod because I didn't understand the insane "associate with this library?" system. I'd messed with a friend's Creative 4gb "jukebox" player and owned an iRiver device myself, so I went into the process with certain assumptions about the way mp3 players work, namely that you can put stuff on them and take stuff off and that this is a universal thing. The notion that Apple would be thinking different in this regard had not occurred to me.

    I've learned to not touch anything other than manually dragging and dropping files one at a time with itunes after it accidentally duplicated, then orphaned 10 gigs of podcasts, which required manually going into each of the dozens of folders in windows explorer and manually examining the metadata for each of the tens of thousands of mp3 files which it has to rename into random alphanumeric sequences and delete each one one at a time. I'm still not sure there's not a few gigs of wasted space there.

    And let's not get into how poorly it manages programs telling you about the 'other' category for iphone apps.

    Spoit on
    steam_sig.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Kagera wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    the level of rhetoric is pretty low, honestly.

    I mean, drop "wrath of steve", and nothing in the hyperlinks are really all that subjective

    "Other than that, how was the show, Mrs. Lincoln?"

    yes, "wrath of steve" is in ANY way comparable to the assassination of a president.

    goose

    Think about this now. We have a thread called Israel Apartheid and Ross is bitching because of the relatively mild tone of the thread title and links.

    That's pretty damn thin-skinned in my opinion considering there's a pretty large enough counter posting of 'no wait Apple's awesome guys' in this thread.

    If you'll go back, I think you'll see it was Protein Shakes asking for special treatment.

    I was just commenting on Evander's handwaving regarding how words like "bullshit" and "wrath of Steve" weren't "all that subjective."

    Actually, I said OTHER THAN those words, the rest wasn't very subjective.

    Do you have some jam on your computer monitor, or something? you keep missing very important clauses that completely change the meaning of my sentences.

    Evander on
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah I've done the thing with formatting my Ipod by accident, I was in Australia on holiday, my Ipod full of music and I plugged it into my cousins laptop and tried to move some of his music to it, BIG MISTAKE. No awesome music for the rest of that trip. Also lost several seasons of South Park.

    I was also unpleasently surprised when I realised that I can not in fact redownload albums I've bought over Itunes, so I stopped buying.

    Demiurge on
    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Whenever people complain about iTunes, they inevitably say things that aren't true or blame Apple for wiping their iPod when they clicked a bunch of buttons without reading and understanding the warnings. So here goes, a short post on iTunes use and behavior:

    You can redownload everything you've purchased on iTunes. You just have to call Apple and ask. The first time they'll just do it, no questions asked. After maybe the 3rd or 4th time, they'll start to hassle you a little. Not ideal, you should just be able to download however many times without calling like Steam, but it's a myth that you can't at all.

    All purchased music and movies two-way sync from iPod to iTunes as long as the copy of iTunes is logged into the store and authorized on the same account. It's pretty bullshit that ALL files don't two-way sync in this case, but it's something. It makes it easy to keep purchases synced between multiple machines in the face of the way iTunes handles downloading purchases.

    Regarding iPod management in situations where you want to take music from all your friends and keep it on your iPod, I'm surprised so many of you managed to screw it up. The software nudges you away from this type of usage (since it's typically illegal and Apple is showing good faith to the music industry) but it by no means wipes your iPod without warning. You just need to say: No, I don't want to sync with this library. Then go into the iPod settings and mark manual management. You can then drag whatever you want on. When you get back to your home computer, if you weren't on manual management already, it will delete all the new stuff, so make sure that's set to manual as well. You can then fully two-way sync your iPod or iPhone using 3rd party software to get it all back on your computer. There are freeware options that work perfectly.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Eh. "Just works" is marketing BS. iTunes doesn't respect all sorts of basic conventions, it's number one achievement is that it installs your music folder into it's library and then automatically copies all of it to an iPod. That's about it.

    Honestly, I'm more and more convinced that "Just works" is, first off, one of the weakest parts of Apple's fairly broad range of marketing techniques (everything from personification of programs with actors to offering reasons to change to, well, general mockery of others), and also that, at least where I live, Apple is abandoning it.

    I mean, I live in an American college town. This is overall, a very reliable Apple stronghold, and not without reason. An interest in specific aesthetic styles, a atmosphere very conducive to Apple's sales pitches, professional areas which are far friendly to Mac OS than computing overall, the fact that we're in the United States and not some other country. Put in simpler, more stereotypical terms--"Starbucks and Art Schools". Honestly, if I had to say which area had more Apple computers--Clarke County, GA, or the entirety of the country of Taiwan, with 23 million people and where a large portion of computer components worldwide are manufactured, I'd say "probably Athens".

    This is Apple country. Which is well and good, but the whole "They just work" rhetoric, as far as computers go, falls flat on its face. Even stalwarts can't make that claim. If I had to guess, it's because Apple's big target consumers here--particularly students, but not limited to them--have had experience with Macs that don't "just work"--in fact, Macs that work really, really badly, and on occasion, worse then their PC counterparts. You can go to the School of Journalism at the University of Georgia and find any lab filled with about two dozen Apple computers that are slow, bug ridden, constantly crashing, an even on occasion won't turn on.

    Is that Apple's fault? Of course not. It's the fault of the people who treat the machines like crap. But Apple has introduced this "It just works" rhetoric into the consumer base here, and right now, it's being laughed at. Now, stuff like iPhones or iPods? Different story (though iPods have kind of a bad reputation here, compared to Creative or Archos MP3 players, recently).

    Different hooks--aesthetic beauty, integration with iPods and iPhones--those are much stronger ones, and they're much more popular. Very few people here seem to serious by the whole "It Just Works" gimmick when they're shopping--the actual, concrete promises of integration with other products, on the other hand, is very popular. Add to that the fact that in this area, advertising for Mac desktops and iPod has decreased very very sharply, while advertising for Mac Books has remained pretty stable and advertising for iPhones has risen...

    Just my two cents on that.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Donkey Kong do you not see any part of that ridiculously complex last paragraph which perhaps suggests the approach iTunes takes is in fact completely counter-intuitive, overly complicated and misleading in it's messages?

    For example, the typical interpretation of "synchronization" is a two-way transaction. Not wiping the fucking device of anything on it previously. Or taking the prerogative to wipe the device unless it's specified before connected to the computer?

    electricitylikesme on
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, I mean what I did was plug it into my cousins laptop, use my second authentication which technicly makes Itunes consider it one of my computers, picked a few tracks of his and clicked the move button. It asks me, "synchronise with this library?" I click yes and whoom, all gone.

    I don't see how I could possibly even imagine that what it meant was wipe my Ipod and put only what I just picked for transfer onto my Ipod, not in a million years.

    Demiurge on
    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This is what the dialog in question looks like:

    HT1848_01.jpg

    Really? Never in a million years? Did you read it?

    Edit: And it's not just the Mac version. The Windows version throws up an identical thing:

    http://leovilletownsquare.com/uploads/med_1163873790-angie.JPG

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Nobody really reads dialog boxes

    Phyphor on
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This is what the dialog in question looks like:

    HT1848_01.jpg

    Really? Never in a million years? Did you read it?

    Edit: And it's not just the Mac version. The Windows version throws up an identical thing:

    http://leovilletownsquare.com/uploads/med_1163873790-angie.JPG

    That is most definately not how it looked 18 months ago.

    Demiurge on
    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Donkey Kong do you not see any part of that ridiculously complex last paragraph which perhaps suggests the approach iTunes takes is in fact completely counter-intuitive, overly complicated and misleading in it's messages?

    For example, the typical interpretation of "synchronization" is a two-way transaction. Not wiping the fucking device of anything on it previously. Or taking the prerogative to wipe the device unless it's specified before connected to the computer?

    You connect the device, iTunes throws up a lengthy explanation of the situation and provides three buttons:

    (Cancel) (Transfer Purchases) (Erase and Sync)

    Well that's no good, I don't want either of those things. You hit cancel. The iPod is now in the side bar. You click on it. You press this option:

    itunes_manual.jpg

    Done. Drag whatever. I was wrong before when I said the home computer would need settings changed. It doesn't. You only have to do that once on one computer ever. Even if it's your home machine.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The real question would be why would I want to buy a music player with such a retarded file management system in the first place.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Honestly, I don't think it's retarded. I hear people say all the time how they just want a player they can drag files on and off of. UGH. I would hate that. I hated it back when MP3 players first came out and I hate it now. It's such shit! I have a large music collection and I like software that manages it intelligently like a database and loads up my players automatically with what I'm currently listening to. Anything new, anything played recently, anything by specified artists, anything on specified playlists. It's incredibly flexible and automatic. I cannot conceive of why anyone would want it any other way. It seems like such an immense hassle.

    That said, there are aspects of it that are annoying. The way the files on the devices are hidden, the way you can't two-way sync anything but purchases. But that does not come anywhere close to how annoying the fully manual solution is.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The real question would be why would I want to buy a music player with such a retarded file management system in the first place.

    i dunno

    but 50 something million people bought one last year!

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Honestly, I don't think it's retarded. I hear people say all the time how they just want a player they can drag files on and off of. UGH. I would hate that. I hated it back when MP3 players first came out and I hate it now. It's such shit! I have a large music collection and I like software that manages it intelligently like a database and loads up my players automatically with what I'm currently listening to. Anything new, anything played recently, anything by specified artists, anything on specified playlists. It's incredibly flexible and automatic. I cannot conceive of why anyone would want it any other way. It seems like such an immense hassle.

    That said, there are aspects of it that are annoying. The way the files on the devices are hidden, the way you can't two-way sync anything but purchases. But that does not come anywhere close to how annoying the fully manual solution is.

    I prefer to do all the ultimate decision making for myself. If I want something on my music player, I'll damn well put it on there. I don't want the damn computer deciding what to put on and take off.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    yeah i am with donkey kong

    its not like manually managing my 150 gig itunes library and putting it on my 16 gig phone would make sense

    i make a playlist, i sync it
    i make a smart playlist, even better

    Shazkar Shadowstorm on
    poo
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Whenever people complain about iTunes, they inevitably say things that aren't true or blame Apple for wiping their iPod when they clicked a bunch of buttons without reading and understanding the warnings. So here goes, a short post on iTunes use and behavior:

    You can redownload everything you've purchased on iTunes. You just have to call Apple and ask. The first time they'll just do it, no questions asked. After maybe the 3rd or 4th time, they'll start to hassle you a little. Not ideal, you should just be able to download however many times without calling like Steam, but it's a myth that you can't at all.

    All purchased music and movies two-way sync from iPod to iTunes as long as the copy of iTunes is logged into the store and authorized on the same account. It's pretty bullshit that ALL files don't two-way sync in this case, but it's something. It makes it easy to keep purchases synced between multiple machines in the face of the way iTunes handles downloading purchases.

    Regarding iPod management in situations where you want to take music from all your friends and keep it on your iPod, I'm surprised so many of you managed to screw it up. The software nudges you away from this type of usage (since it's typically illegal and Apple is showing good faith to the music industry) but it by no means wipes your iPod without warning. You just need to say: No, I don't want to sync with this library. Then go into the iPod settings and mark manual management. You can then drag whatever you want on. When you get back to your home computer, if you weren't on manual management already, it will delete all the new stuff, so make sure that's set to manual as well. You can then fully two-way sync your iPod or iPhone using 3rd party software to get it all back on your computer. There are freeware options that work perfectly.

    Which part of this is "It Just Works"?

    That's my problem here. I don't think that Itunes is any worse than any other software (except where it is deliberatedly coded to be), but when the marketing campaign is that it is simpler, then it SHOULD be simpler.

    Evander on
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't think it's retarded. I hear people say all the time how they just want a player they can drag files on and off of. UGH. I would hate that. I hated it back when MP3 players first came out and I hate it now. It's such shit! I have a large music collection and I like software that manages it intelligently like a database and loads up my players automatically with what I'm currently listening to. Anything new, anything played recently, anything by specified artists, anything on specified playlists. It's incredibly flexible and automatic. I cannot conceive of why anyone would want it any other way. It seems like such an immense hassle.

    That said, there are aspects of it that are annoying. The way the files on the devices are hidden, the way you can't two-way sync anything but purchases. But that does not come anywhere close to how annoying the fully manual solution is.

    I prefer to do all the ultimate decision making for myself. If I want something on my music player, I'll damn well put it on there. I don't want the damn computer deciding what to put on and take off.

    The computer doesn't "decide" unless you put it on full auto mode, which for some people is a good choice, especially if the library is small or the device is really big. In reality, most people will manage it manually with this screen, which is much easier than dragging things and totally automatic if a playlist you specify is a smart playlist or you pick a whole artist.

    itunes_manual_2.jpg

    So if I specify that I want all Foo Fighters synced all the time, it will add that new album I just ripped to my player immediately when I plug it in. I like it a lot and I think if iTunes for Windows wasn't so generally shitty, online opinions of iTunes management features wouldn't be so inexplicably negative.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The real question would be why would I want to buy a music player with such a retarded file management system in the first place.

    i dunno

    but 50 something million people bought one last year!

    And McDonalds sells a lot of hamburgers, whats your point?

    Jokerman on
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Which part of this is "It Just Works"?

    That's my problem here. I don't think that Itunes is any worse than any other software (except where it is deliberatedly coded to be), but when the marketing campaign is that it is simpler, then it SHOULD be simpler.

    I wrote that post to be informative and as clear as humanly possible. Obviously it's going to be long and elicit potshots of "haha I thought it was supposed to just work, you wrote a novel there!"

    The part where "it just works" is the part where you are at your own home and you are terrible with computers, you have no idea what a folder is or how to open the player as a storage device in My Computer, but you decide to take the iPod out of its box and hook it up anyway.

    And within minutes, you've ripped a CD, there is music on your device and you are grooving. That is the part where "it just works". If you take the device to another computer, it works exactly the same way, which might not be what the power user wants but that's the price of a setup like iPod+iTunes.

    Not that it's even hard to change that behavior, as I've been explaining. It takes literally 3 clicks. (Cancel) -> (<device name> in side bar) -> (Manually manage)

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Which part of this is "It Just Works"?

    That's my problem here. I don't think that Itunes is any worse than any other software (except where it is deliberatedly coded to be), but when the marketing campaign is that it is simpler, then it SHOULD be simpler.

    I wrote that post to be informative and as clear as humanly possible. Obviously it's going to be long and elicit potshots of "haha I thought it was supposed to just work, you wrote a novel there!"

    The part where "it just works" is the part where you are at your own home and you are terrible with computers, you have no idea what a folder is or how to open the player as a storage device in My Computer, but you decide to take the iPod out of its box and hook it up anyway.

    And within minutes, you've ripped a CD, there is music on your device and you are grooving. That is the part where "it just works". If you take the device to another computer, it works exactly the same way, which might not be what the power user wants but that's the price of a setup like iPod+iTunes.

    And other players don't do the exact same thing?

    Evander on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Whenever people complain about iTunes, they inevitably say things that aren't true or blame Apple for wiping their iPod when they clicked a bunch of buttons without reading and understanding the warnings. So here goes, a short post on iTunes use and behavior:

    You can redownload everything you've purchased on iTunes. You just have to call Apple and ask.
    This is still bullshit of the highest order. I fail to understand why I can download as many copies of a game I purchased over Steam - when those copies, individually, are worth a shitload more than a given song - but I can't redownload my music at will via iTunes. Total bullshit.

    Salvation122 on
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    And other players don't do the exact same thing?

    The Zune and a few others do. Most do not. But the Zune has all kinds of similar hangups. I can't even fucking manage a Zune unless I have Windows. Talk about bullshit.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • JokermanJokerman V.Vaughn, The Vaudeville Vilnian Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    And other players don't do the exact same thing?

    The Zune and a few others do. Most do not. But the Zune has all kinds of similar hangups. I can't even fucking manage a Zune unless I have Windows. Talk about bullshit.

    Yeah, but "It just works" and a hell of a lot better then any Ipod i've had.

    It's a simple joy to be able to copy music from my desktop and laptop onto my zune without having to leap through hoops, fearing loosing everything on it.

    Also, the zune is durable as hell. I've had an angry ex-girlfriend try to slam a chair down onit, and it didnt break.

    Jokerman on
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Whenever people complain about iTunes, they inevitably say things that aren't true or blame Apple for wiping their iPod when they clicked a bunch of buttons without reading and understanding the warnings. So here goes, a short post on iTunes use and behavior:

    You can redownload everything you've purchased on iTunes. You just have to call Apple and ask.
    This is still bullshit of the highest order. I fail to understand why I can download as many copies of a game I purchased over Steam - when those copies, individually, are worth a shitload more than a given song - but I can't redownload my music at will via iTunes. Total bullshit.

    It really is bullshit. I'm sure Apple has a variety of fake reasons for why it is set up this way.

    Steve hated all the interface ideas for re-downloading, it costs too much, sometimes labels change prices and availability of music on the store so we'd have to account for that, people will use it for piracy now that we don't use DRM on any music, etc, etc.

    I guess the only legit reason might be in the case of movies, people might download, watch once, and delete constantly, which could start to add up since the movies are $15 or less for a 2.5GB download. But really, Steam and Netflix deal with much, much higher file size / profit ratios and they seem to manage unlimited downloads and even streaming just fine.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't think it's retarded. I hear people say all the time how they just want a player they can drag files on and off of. UGH. I would hate that. I hated it back when MP3 players first came out and I hate it now. It's such shit! I have a large music collection and I like software that manages it intelligently like a database and loads up my players automatically with what I'm currently listening to. Anything new, anything played recently, anything by specified artists, anything on specified playlists. It's incredibly flexible and automatic. I cannot conceive of why anyone would want it any other way. It seems like such an immense hassle.

    That said, there are aspects of it that are annoying. The way the files on the devices are hidden, the way you can't two-way sync anything but purchases. But that does not come anywhere close to how annoying the fully manual solution is.

    I prefer to do all the ultimate decision making for myself. If I want something on my music player, I'll damn well put it on there. I don't want the damn computer deciding what to put on and take off.

    The computer doesn't "decide" unless you put it on full auto mode, which for some people is a good choice, especially if the library is small or the device is really big. In reality, most people will manage it manually with this screen, which is much easier than dragging things and totally automatic if a playlist you specify is a smart playlist or you pick a whole artist.

    <large image>

    So if I specify that I want all Foo Fighters synced all the time, it will add that new album I just ripped to my player immediately when I plug it in. I like it a lot and I think if iTunes for Windows wasn't so generally shitty, online opinions of iTunes management features wouldn't be so inexplicably negative.
    It's hardly inexplicable - most people's minds were made up the first time they used iTunes. Which was probably when it came out. Which was when a lot of the stuff you're using to illustrate your points of how great it is wasn't actually in the software.

    JHunz on
    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong For Workgroups Version 3.11 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sync selected playlists and manual sync were there from the start when the iPod came out. I'm not sure when sync artists was added, but it's basically just automatic smart playlist creation. Smart playlists were added before the windows version even came out.

    I think people complain about it because it's unstable and slow under Windows and because of some kind of bias against Apple. If they actually used the program, they'd find that its features and utility are actually pretty good.

    Donkey Kong on
    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I used it for a while, and was not at all confused about the features and function provided by itunes

    Then I switched to something that I liked the features of more.

    Now i'm using zune, which i am also happy with.

    Switched to it because of owning a zune and not any particular dissatisfaction with the software that I had been using after dumping itunes.

    Dehumanized on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    And other players don't do the exact same thing?

    The Zune and a few others do. Most do not. But the Zune has all kinds of similar hangups. I can't even fucking manage a Zune unless I have Windows. Talk about bullshit.

    The majority of people with computers have windows, so actually, that falls in to minority hangup, sorry.

    But my point is, people say "don't get a Zune, it may have built in FM/HD Radio, and do wireless syncing, but the iPod is "easy".

    People give up a feature set that they might actually want (if you don't keep your computer in your bedroom, having your PMP sync wirlesslessly while charging next to your bed is kind of a big thing), because they are told that ipod is easier.

    Evander on
Sign In or Register to comment.