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Greatest hero without superpowers_

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    the_greatest_hero_everthe_greatest_hero_ever Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer
    If you're going to role Nick Fury, you might as well role punisher or Vigilante...guns are guns.

    the_greatest_hero_ever on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer
    If you're going to role Nick Fury, you might as well role punisher or Vigilante...guns are guns.

    You are an idiot.

    DouglasDanger on
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    the_greatest_hero_everthe_greatest_hero_ever Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer
    If you're going to role Nick Fury, you might as well role punisher or Vigilante...guns are guns.

    You are an idiot.
    Ha, I thought I might get a reaction like this...I know they're all masters of various firearms (types, styles) i.e. Vigilante roles with two six shooters and he's the best there ever was with them. Punisher uses all sorts of nasty stuff including assault rifles, C4, ball bearing explosives, etc. Nick fury has his special ops training and super-spyesque abilities (I'm not counting his slowed aging process into the equation because in the long run a bullet is still a bullet, if he gets shot in the head it's over). So while there are discrepancies in their styles I still consider them similar characters, in the end it comes down to a matter of preference based on whether you like cowboys, spies, or assassins better.

    the_greatest_hero_ever on
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    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer
    If you're going to role Nick Fury, you might as well role punisher or Vigilante...guns are guns.

    You are an idiot.
    Ha, I thought I might get a reaction like this...I know they're all masters of various firearms (types, styles) i.e. Vigilante roles with two six shooters and he's the best there ever was with them. Punisher uses all sorts of nasty stuff including assault rifles, C4, ball bearing explosives, etc. Nick fury has his special ops training and super-spyesque abilities (I'm not counting his slowed aging process into the equation because in the long run a bullet is still a bullet, if he gets shot in the head it's over). So while there are discrepancies in their styles I still consider them similar characters, in the end it comes down to a matter of preference based on whether you like cowboys, spies, or assassins better.

    This is so overly simplistic it borders on stupid. Characters are more than just what they can do. They have different motivations, different purposes, different boundaries, different back stories, simply different identities. If we're going with how you're thinking all of comics are one of 4 or so characters: normal humans with fancy toys and training, a guy with some minor power and abilities, guys with really powerful abilities and cosmic entities. Thankfully characters have more to them than their powers and abilities.

    NinjaSquirrel on
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    the_greatest_hero_everthe_greatest_hero_ever Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer
    If you're going to role Nick Fury, you might as well role punisher or Vigilante...guns are guns.

    You are an idiot.
    Ha, I thought I might get a reaction like this...I know they're all masters of various firearms (types, styles) i.e. Vigilante roles with two six shooters and he's the best there ever was with them. Punisher uses all sorts of nasty stuff including assault rifles, C4, ball bearing explosives, etc. Nick fury has his special ops training and super-spyesque abilities (I'm not counting his slowed aging process into the equation because in the long run a bullet is still a bullet, if he gets shot in the head it's over). So while there are discrepancies in their styles I still consider them similar characters, in the end it comes down to a matter of preference based on whether you like cowboys, spies, or assassins better.

    This is so overly simplistic it borders on stupid. Characters are more than just what they can do. They have different motivations, different purposes, different boundaries, different back stories, simply different identities. If we're going with how you're thinking all of comics are one of 4 or so characters: normal humans with fancy toys and training, a guy with some minor power and abilities, guys with really powerful abilities and cosmic entities. Thankfully characters have more to them than their powers and abilities.
    Yes, thankfully all of what you said is true. I was merely looking at the characters from the perpective of abilities...and what determines our inclinations to different characters (in my opinion at least) is how well we can relate to them based on those motivations, drives, etc. Thank you for adding dimension to the thread instead of simply namecalling.

    the_greatest_hero_ever on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    It's spelled "roll" goddamnit.

    And for me, it's easily the Punisher.

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Deadshot would fuck them all up

    Garlic Bread on
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Keith wrote:
    Deadshot would fuck them all up


    Deadshot misses Batman quite a lot.

    Does Bullseye have a power? I really hate Bullseye.

    Ringo on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Ringo wrote:
    Keith wrote:
    Deadshot would fuck them all up


    Deadshot misses Batman quite a lot.

    It's because he's a villain.

    If he was a hero, he'd never miss the badguys.

    Garlic Bread on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Deadshot or David Cain at his prime?


    What about Lobster Johnson?

    DouglasDanger on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Cain at his prime

    Motherfucker framed Batman

    Garlic Bread on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Captain America. He's as high as a human can go without actually being superhuman. He's balanced on the edge. No other non-powered character can say the same.

    In terms of a character with abilities that could conceivably be real, I would pick Batman in Batman: Year One. Punching a guy through a brick wall is a bit beyond what I can accept as real, but pretty much everything else he does in that book is conceivable if you accept that Batman is at at his peak physical conditioning with the world's best martial arts training.

    Briareos on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Briareos wrote:
    Captain America. He's as high as a human can go without actually being superhuman. He's balanced on the edge. No other non-powered character can say the same.

    In terms of a character with abilities that could conceivably be real, I would pick Batman in Batman: Year One. Punching a guy through a brick wall is a bit beyond what I can accept as real, but pretty much everything else he does in that book is conceivable if you accept that Batman is at at his peak physical conditioning with the world's best martial arts training.

    Black Panther is supposedly Cap's equal.

    Fencingsax on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Cap had scientific enhancement, so did Black Panther, with maybe a bit of mysticism thrown in too. Does that count as a power?

    DouglasDanger on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Briareos wrote:
    Captain America. He's as high as a human can go without actually being superhuman. He's balanced on the edge. No other non-powered character can say the same.

    In terms of a character with abilities that could conceivably be real, I would pick Batman in Batman: Year One. Punching a guy through a brick wall is a bit beyond what I can accept as real, but pretty much everything else he does in that book is conceivable if you accept that Batman is at at his peak physical conditioning with the world's best martial arts training.

    Black Panther is supposedly Cap's equal.

    Yeah, but he's African. He doesn't have the extra power of the Stars 'n' Bars!

    Just kidding. :wink:

    Seriously, though, is Black Panther superpowered or just an exceptional human? I don't know much about him.

    Briareos on
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited January 2007
    Cap had scientific enhancement, so did Black Panther, with maybe a bit of mysticism thrown in too. Does that count as a power?

    Yeah, I'd say they don't count.

    Garlic Bread on
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    Romero ZombieRomero Zombie Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I don't remember reading anything with Black Panther having powers except that the dude trained his entire life to take over the role after his father died.

    Romero Zombie on
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    Conditional_AxeConditional_Axe Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    T'Challa gets his abilities from a secret herb, no?

    Conditional_Axe on
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    Romero ZombieRomero Zombie Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    C'mon…when have herbs been performance enhancing?

    Romero Zombie on
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Cap had scientific enhancement, so did Black Panther, with maybe a bit of mysticism thrown in too. Does that count as a power?

    Well, the definition of Caps powers is being at the absolute peak of normal human abilities, he has nothing that's superhuman. He did have the super soldier serum to bring him to that state though so you could go either way on it I think.

    Since he doesn't have any superhuman power I'd count him, but that's me.

    kdrudy on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    edit- black panther i mean

    it depends on who's writing it

    when priest was writing it he was a badass who smoked this crazy herb and it made him into an awesome panther dude

    when hudlin is writing it, he's just the biggest badass in the village

    Servo on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nick Fury been listed yet? Dudes badass.

    see also: Jack Bauer

    <3

    I'm going to have to go with Batman as my favourite hero without superpowers, but the "greatest hero" without superpowers is a harder choice to make. You guys present some very compelling arguments for a broad spectrum of characters.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    the_greatest_hero_everthe_greatest_hero_ever Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Cap had scientific enhancement, so did Black Panther, with maybe a bit of mysticism thrown in too. Does that count as a power?
    Didn't black panther acquire some of his ability from the vibranium deposits in Wakanda? I still might count Cap simply because his abilities are still border on human.

    the_greatest_hero_ever on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I don't see why Cap is disqualified because he was given a performance enhancing drug. I could accept saying that he isn't "the greatest non-superpowered hero" because of character flaws, but not on the basis of physical ability. He might be equaled, but, by definition, no one could surpass him, physically, and still be non-superpowered.

    Briareos on
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    The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I don't think they're the best, but I think bullseye deserves a mention. The dude can kill anyone... with ANYTHING.

    The_Lightbringer on
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    bobgorilabobgorila Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Briareos wrote:
    He might be equaled, but, by definition, no one could surpass him, physically, and still be non-superpowered.

    Yeah, that's because he has super-human powers.

    That is to say, abilities above that of a human.

    You know, because of the super-soldier serum.

    From wikipedia:
    The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including running a mile in a little more than a minute.

    Furthermore, his enhancements are the reason why he was able to survive being frozen in suspended animation for decades. Rogers is also unable to become intoxicated by alcohol and is immune to many diseases.

    Emphasis mine.

    bobgorila on
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    bobgorila wrote:
    Briareos wrote:
    He might be equaled, but, by definition, no one could surpass him, physically, and still be non-superpowered.

    Yeah, that's because he has super-human powers.

    That is to say, abilities above that of a human.

    You know, because of the super-soldier serum.

    From wikipedia:
    The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including running a mile in a little more than a minute.

    Furthermore, his enhancements are the reason why he was able to survive being frozen in suspended animation for decades. Rogers is also unable to become intoxicated by alcohol and is immune to many diseases.

    Emphasis mine.

    Fair enough, that would be a super-human power. I had thought the super soldier serum put him at the apex of human ability but that would be an ability above it.

    kdrudy on
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    BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    bobgorila wrote:
    Briareos wrote:
    He might be equaled, but, by definition, no one could surpass him, physically, and still be non-superpowered.

    Yeah, that's because he has super-human powers.

    That is to say, abilities above that of a human.

    You know, because of the super-soldier serum.

    From wikipedia:
    The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including running a mile in a little more than a minute.

    Furthermore, his enhancements are the reason why he was able to survive being frozen in suspended animation for decades. Rogers is also unable to become intoxicated by alcohol and is immune to many diseases.

    Emphasis mine.

    "Ordinary human being" is not the same thing as "human being at the absolute pinnacle of human ability." Lance Armstrong has endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being, but he is not superhuman.

    The "supersoldier serum" is just a name. I don't have the reference at hand, but if I recall correctly, the Marvel Handbook specified that Cap is not superhuman, in the same sense as Spider-man is superhuman.

    Briareos on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Captain America has super powers.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    bobgorilabobgorila Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Dude, did you read the whole quote?

    He is immune to many diseases, and survived frozen in a block of ice.

    I think this goes above even a "peak physical condition" human.

    So yeah, he's not super-strong, super-smart or super-fast, but he's still super-human.

    bobgorila on
    I like my women how I like my coffee.

    Anally.
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    The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    We're gonna need a bit more clarification on this "Ordinary human" list. By that very definition Batman would not qualify for this list because he's a born super genius and being a super genius is in no way part of being your average, ordinary human being.

    The_Lightbringer on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    bobgorila wrote:
    Dude, did you read the whole quote?

    He is immune to many diseases, and survived frozen in a block of ice.

    I think this goes above even a "peak physical condition" human.

    So yeah, he's not super-strong, super-smart or super-fast, but he's still super-human.
    Normal humans survive frozen all the time in fiction, and I wouldn't call being immune to a disease a super power when it never comes into play and we ourselves have several immunities of our own.

    robosagogo on
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    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    We're gonna need a bit more clarification on this "Ordinary human" list. By that very definition Batman would not qualify for this list because he's a born super genius and being a super genius is in no way part of being your average, ordinary human being.
    I'd think that Batman is a normal human. Pretty much anyone you could become with an adequate amount of training and studying I'd consider normal. Batman isn't incredibly strong or fast, and while he is ingenious all of his devices could be conceivably engineered by normal humans.

    NinjaSquirrel on
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    LuncelotLuncelot Registered User new member
    edited January 2007
    Punisher...by far without a doubt is the most powerful normal human character. Not only does he fight your normal thugs in the street but in one run he killed every marvel superhero and villan.

    Yes, it was a non-cannon 'what if story' it still does not detract from the fact the Frank killed them all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe

    Luncelot on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The fact that it was stupid detracts from the fact.

    robosagogo on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Look guys, the fact that Cap was INJECTED with something that turned him from a scrawny nerd into a superhero makes him a super human. Also, regardless of what's written on the internet about him he definitely has super human strength. The guy has fought The Hulk fer crissakes.

    Batman is just a guy.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Luncelot wrote:
    Punisher...by far without a doubt is the most powerful normal human character. Not only does he fight your normal thugs in the street but in one run he killed every marvel superhero and villan.

    Yes, it was a non-cannon 'what if story' it still does not detract from the fact the Frank killed them all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe

    Spider-man didn't react to something that would set off his spider-sense, despite his spider-sense not going off for Venom. And Cyclops and Cap had a "Pfft, fuck you, Frank" attitude over killing civilians.

    And there are a lot of heroes they never show him killing because there's no goddamn way he'd be able to kill the Fantastic 4. MAYBE Sue and Johnny, but unless Sue is first she's gonna keep her family in a bubble as much as possible. Reed and Ben are damn near indestructible, which is why they just show the corpse and never tell us HOW Punisher killed a man who is immensely hard to hurt.

    The Muffin Man on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Luncelot wrote:
    Punisher...by far without a doubt is the most powerful normal human character. Not only does he fight your normal thugs in the street but in one run he killed every marvel superhero and villan.

    Yes, it was a non-cannon 'what if story' it still does not detract from the fact the Frank killed them all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe

    Spider-man didn't react to something that would set off his spider-sense, despite his spider-sense not going off for Venom. And Cyclops and Cap had a "Pfft, fuck you, Frank" attitude over killing civilians.

    And there are a lot of heroes they never show him killing because there's no goddamn way he'd be able to kill the Fantastic 4. MAYBE Sue and Johnny, but unless Sue is first she's gonna keep her family in a bubble as much as possible. Reed and Ben are damn near indestructible, which is why they just show the corpse and never tell us HOW Punisher killed a man who is immensely hard to hurt.
    I'm sure it could be done when you have comic book technology at your disposal. It was just lazy that no plausible explanation was given for the majority of the kills.

    I mean, he kills Doctor Doom with an EMP and a hammer.

    robosagogo on
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    Luncelot wrote:
    Punisher...by far without a doubt is the most powerful normal human character. Not only does he fight your normal thugs in the street but in one run he killed every marvel superhero and villan.

    Yes, it was a non-cannon 'what if story' it still does not detract from the fact the Frank killed them all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Punisher_Kills_the_Marvel_Universe

    Spider-man didn't react to something that would set off his spider-sense, despite his spider-sense not going off for Venom. And Cyclops and Cap had a "Pfft, fuck you, Frank" attitude over killing civilians.

    And there are a lot of heroes they never show him killing because there's no goddamn way he'd be able to kill the Fantastic 4. MAYBE Sue and Johnny, but unless Sue is first she's gonna keep her family in a bubble as much as possible. Reed and Ben are damn near indestructible, which is why they just show the corpse and never tell us HOW Punisher killed a man who is immensely hard to hurt.
    I'm sure it could be done when you have comic book technology at your disposal. It was just lazy that no plausible explanation was given for the majority of the kills.

    I mean, he kills Doctor Doom with an EMP and a hammer.

    "Damn my inability to make armor that is strong enough to withstand a hammer, or move easily and not by motors, or to learn immensely powerful magic, or have armed guards that aren't just Doombots in case someone has an EMP, or..."

    The Muffin Man on
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    LuncelotLuncelot Registered User new member
    edited January 2007
    Wow, I never knew people would take that so seriously. I mean come on, the whole arc was just so Ennis' could kill all the "traditional" superheroes which he has a well-known dislike for.

    Luncelot on
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