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[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I let my brother take my paladin around the fires the other day while I was at work
    He made fun of my holy gear and other things but I had a few questions
    He talked about how I was lacking shield of righteousness? it is a talent? did I miss out on it at the trainer at sometime or?

    This is my protection/holy paladin

    I have not spent my last 5 talent points in my holy because I just don't know what to spend them on

    Brainleech on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Okay, So this is me. Outside of raids, are there any major upgrades I'm missing?

    Rizzi on
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    I let my brother take my paladin around the fires the other day while I was at work
    He made fun of my holy gear and other things but I had a few questions
    He talked about how I was lacking shield of righteousness? it is a talent? did I miss out on it at the trainer at sometime or?

    This is my protection/holy paladin

    I have not spent my last 5 talent points in my holy because I just don't know what to spend them on

    You get Shield of Righteousness at level 75.

    Your prot spec isn't very good btw. You need Guarded by the Light and Touched by the Light. One Handed Spec is very good. (it increases all damage, so also Consecrate etc)

    The Consecrate glyph is actively bad for Prot. Not only doesn't it help, it's worse than if you didn't have it.

    This would be a nice spec at 74, imho.

    Grobian on
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Most of the glyphs suck in the game I really had a plan on what I was doing with my paladin and time and other things too their toll

    I have been told that spec is a big let down. Because seal of command is outdone by corruption, and tons of other bizarre theories people put forth

    Brainleech on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    Okay, So this is me. Outside of raids, are there any major upgrades I'm missing?

    Hrm, no T9 set pieces? The Triumph badge libram would also be a good idea (the one that procs +str on ticks of SoV).

    I'm also not a big fan of gemming anything but str, with one gem being a Nightmare Tear so the meta is activated.

    Nobody on
  • NambkabNambkab Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    Okay, So this is me. Outside of raids, are there any major upgrades I'm missing?

    You should swap the crit gem to a 20str gem, and the purple gem in your boots to a nightmare tear. As Nobody mentioned, the Libram from triumph emblems is drastically superior to yours when using seal of vengeance/corruption. As well, 2pc Tier9 if you aren't going to be raiding for Tier10 gear is phenomenally amazing.

    EDIT: As well, swap Exorcism glyph with Consecration.

    Nambkab on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Thanks.

    Rizzi on
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    I have been told that spec is a big let down. Because seal of command is outdone by corruption, and tons of other bizarre theories people put forth

    When leveling, SoComm and Ret is generally a good idea if you want to tank because SoComm is better on trash (its a cleave!) and you have replenishment to help with mana. Once you get Divine Plea, then going Prot will make more sense because if talented properly you can keep the Divine Plea effect running permanently in combat.

    SoComm is still worth getting as a tank because its cleave effect is triggered by Hammer of the Righteous so it makes it ideal for trash, but SoV/C is better on single targets.

    There is nothing bizzare about this.

    Naphtali on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I have to admit that I mostly don't bother switching to SoCorr on bosses in random dungeons. Some bosses have adds or an add phase anyway and I never have problems holding aggro on bosses. The latter might change with my first heroics at 80 (Paladin is 78 right now), though. And I guess additional damage is additional damage, so I probably should pay more attention to this.

    Grobian on
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  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Re: Low level paladin tanking

    I went into ret as far as SoC & Pursuit of Justice, and then started working my way down the prot tree. I'm 42 now and it's worked well so far. PoJ isn't needed but it is nice, since blizzard in their infinite wisdom made half the fucking mobs in low level dungeons disarm.

    It's also nice t have a reduced cooldown on your judgements at low levels, since that's the only attack you have.

    I plan on just keeping this single build until about 60 when I'm in Outlands, then I'll dualspec for prot/ret

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    I have to admit that I mostly don't bother switching to SoCorr on bosses in random dungeons. Some bosses have adds or an add phase anyway and I never have problems holding aggro on bosses. The latter might change with my first heroics at 80 (Paladin is 78 right now), though. And I guess additional damage is additional damage, so I probably should pay more attention to this.
    The difference between the two on bosses that are going to be dying in 30 seconds isn't a big deal.

    forty on
  • TehSlothTehSloth Hit Or Miss I Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'm currently 34 and although I haven't been doing any group stuff, SoCommand has been a HUGE boon. I regularly try to snatch up 2 or 3 mobs and drop consecrate, judgement of wisdom, and throw out an exorcism either to pull or to kill running mobs. My gear is pretty bad (no heirlooms since I'm on a new server) but I can easily handle 3 same level mobs, toss a big heal afterwards and go in for more. I was wondering if anyone knew how big of a benefit Blessing of Might would be versus Blessing of Wisdom, at the moment I can cast all my spells as much as I want and not worry about it with BoW and judging wisdom. I don't think that the AP from might would be that big of a deal since a lot of the damage is coming from consecrate, seal of command, judgement, and exorcism. I haven't picked up 2-handed specialization either yet because I'm not sure how much it will really improve my damage, I'm assuming it would pretty much only affect my regular hits, but I could be totally off-base on that.

    TehSloth on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Pretty much all base paladin offensive abilities get damage from AP now, so blessing of might increases your damage on all of that.

    Well, I'm not sure on exorcism, but I thought that scaled from AP as well.

    forty on
  • TehSlothTehSloth Hit Or Miss I Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Pretty much all base paladin offensive abilities get damage from AP now, so blessing of might increases your damage on all of that.

    Well, I'm not sure on exorcism, but I thought that scaled from AP as well.

    Cool, wasn't sure if I had to wait till I got that talent that gives extra spell damage or whatever based on your AP.

    TehSloth on
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    twitch.tv/tehsloth
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Nope, more AP is number one priority even before Sheath of Light, although SoL is still a nice damage boost since some abilities scale partially with SP as well.

    forty on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Why the hell did I spend so long in the Burning Crusade, I waited until level 72 before going over to Northrend, I am here and have been here for a couple of levels now and I am enjoying it so much more.

    Johannen on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why the hell did I spend so long in the Burning Crusade, I waited until level 72 before going over to Northrend, I am here and have been here for a couple of levels now and I am enjoying it so much more.
    Because you hate yourself.

    forty on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Johannen wrote: »
    Why the hell did I spend so long in the Burning Crusade, I waited until level 72 before going over to Northrend, I am here and have been here for a couple of levels now and I am enjoying it so much more.
    Because you hate yourself.
    This feels accurate.

    Johannen on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Why does the T9 ret chest have ArP on it? D:

    Rizzi on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    Why does the T9 ret chest have ArP on it? D:

    My guess is that one of the devs was pining for the days of classic when useless stats appeared on tier gear.

    Nobody on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's a direct copy of the warrior T9 chest.
    Lazy!

    Rizzi on
  • pollofacepolloface Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    It's a direct copy of the warrior T9 chest.
    Lazy!

    A lot of the gear mirrors warrior, tank is pretty much exactly the same.

    Also put crit/str gems in yellow sockets, str in everything else.

    I would also say to drop the pvp talents in ret and grab aura mastery in holy, along with healing light so you can get a little more out of your AoW procs.

    Other then that just keep grinding like you are and get all the t9, you can hold off on the libram till you attempt a raid boss that doesnt die in less then a minute.

    edit: also dont be afraid to throw in agility pieces if it seems like an upgrade, it scales so well with us till 4.0 hits

    polloface on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I picked up the T9 helm and gloves earlier. The set bonus seems pretty useful.
    I need a shit load of expertise though, it's kinda embarrassing.

    Rizzi on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Divine Storm is a big deal because Retribution paladins get it at level 10. You'll get a new bottom o' the tree talent.
    Hey I guess these new talent changes are kind of cool.

    815165 on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    I picked up the T9 helm and gloves earlier. The set bonus seems pretty useful.
    I need a shit load of expertise though, it's kinda embarrassing.

    Remember with Glyph of Vengeance you automatically get 10 expertise skill so that cuts down on the amount you need to 16, and since you should be using Vengeance/Corruption anyway on bosses...

    Nobody on
  • pollofacepolloface Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Plus your human, if you are lucky you can get into a ToC run and get a sword with agility or an ICC run and get the sword from Marrowgar.

    Also make sure you spend your frost badges on t10, at least 2pc before you get anything else.

    Dunno how you hold out with rotations but as a starter you can DL addons such as clcret or SHIT to help manage cooldowns (I use SHIT for its simplicity.)

    polloface on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Divine Storm is a big deal because Retribution paladins get it at level 10. You'll get a new bottom o' the tree talent.
    Hey I guess these new talent changes are kind of cool.
    Retribution paladins get it at level 10? I assume what that really means is that all paladins get it at 10. Wow.

    forty on
  • pollofacepolloface Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Divine Storm is a big deal because Retribution paladins get it at level 10. You'll get a new bottom o' the tree talent.
    Hey I guess these new talent changes are kind of cool.
    Retribution paladins get it at level 10? I assume what that really means is that all paladins get it at 10. Wow.

    Read the new talent tree system and then read that again.

    tl;dr version of it is that when you hit lvl 10 you get to choose what spec you will be, so instead of getting 1 talent to put into ret for lower insta cast mana cost we get something special, and a signature ability. The example GC gave was a prot warrior hits lvl 10 and gets shield slam, or a shadow priest gets mind flay.

    edit: this also means we get to finally see our talents next build!

    polloface on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    OK, well that's all news to me. I don't remember anything like that being described since the new system was previewed at Blizzcon close to a year ago.

    forty on
  • pollofacepolloface Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    OK, well that's all news to me. I don't remember anything like that being described since the new system was previewed at Blizzcon close to a year ago.

    Yeah, it was just announced today, so the main chat page if probably going wild over it but here is the main post, its a really good decision:
    When we first announced our design goals for class talent trees back at BlizzCon 2009, one of our major stated focuses was to remove some of the boring and "mandatory" passive talents. We mentioned that we wanted talent choices to feel more flavorful and fun, yet more meaningful at the same time. Recently, we had our fansites release information on work-in-progress talent tree previews for druids, priests, shaman, and rogues. From those previews and via alpha test feedback, a primary response we heard was that these trees didn’t incorporate the original design goals discussed at BlizzCon. This response echoes something we have been feeling internally for some time, namely that the talent tree system has not aged well since we first increased the level cap beyond level 60. In an upcoming beta build, we will unveil bold overhauls of all 30 talent trees.

    Talent Tree Vision

    One of the basic tenets of Blizzard game design is that of “concentrated coolness.” We’d rather have a simpler design with a lot of depth, than a complicated but shallow design. The goal for Cataclysm remains to remove a lot of the passive (or lame) talents, but we don’t think that’s possible with the current tree size. To resolve this, we're reducing each tree to 31-point talents. With this reduction in tree size we need to make sure they're being purchased along a similar leveling curve, and therefore will also be reducing the number of total talent points and the speed at which they're awarded during the leveling process.

    As a result, we can keep the unique talents in each tree, particularly those which provide new spells, abilities or mechanics. We’ll still have room for extra flavorful talents and room for player customization, but we can trim a great deal of fat from each tree. The idea isn’t to give players fewer choices, but to make those choices feel more meaningful. Your rotations won’t change and you won’t lose any cool talents. What will change are all of the filler talents you had to pick up to get to the next fun talent, as well as most talents that required 5 of your hard-earned points.

    We are also taking a hard look at many of the mandatory PvP talents, such as spell pushback or mechanic duration reductions. While there will always be PvP vs. PvE builds, we’d like for the difference to be less extreme, so that players don’t feel like they necessarily need to spend their second talent specialization on a PvP build.

    The Rise of Specialization

    We want to focus the talent trees towards your chosen style of gameplay right away. That first point you spend in a tree should be very meaningful. If you choose Enhancement, we want you to feel like an Enhancement shaman right away, not thirty talent points later. When talent trees are unlocked at level 10, you will be asked to choose your specialization (e.g. whether you want to be an Arms, Fury or Protection warrior) before spending that first point. Making this choice comes with certain benefits, including whatever passive bonuses you need to be effective in that role, and a signature ability that used to be buried deeper in the talent trees. These abilities and bonuses are only available by specializing in a specific tree. Each tree awards its own unique active ability and passives when chosen. The passive bonuses range from flat percentage increases, like a 20% increase to Fire damage for Fire mages or spell range increases for casters, to more interesting passives such as the passive rage regeneration of the former Anger Management talent for Arms warriors, Dual-Wield Specialization for Fury warriors and Combat rogues, or the ability to dual-wield itself for Enhancement shaman.

    The initial talent tree selection unlocks active abilities that are core to the chosen role. Our goal is to choose abilities that let the specializations come into their own much earlier than was possible when a specialization-defining talent had to be buried deep enough that other talent trees couldn’t access them. For example, having Lava Lash and Dual-Wield right away lets an Enhancement shaman feel like an Enhancement shaman. Other role-defining examples of abilities players can now get for free at level 10 include Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, Shield Slam, Mutilate, Shadow Step, Thunderstorm, Earth Shield, Water Elemental, and Penance.

    Getting Down to the Grit

    Talent trees will have around 20 unique talents instead of today's (roughly) 30 talents, and aesthetically will look a bit more like the original World of Warcraft talent trees. The 31-point talents will generally be the same as the 51-point talents we already had planned for Cataclysm. A lot of the boring or extremely specialized talents have been removed, but we don't want to remove anything that’s going to affect spell/ability rotations. We want to keep overall damage, healing, and survivability roughly the same while providing a lot of the passive bonuses for free based on your specialization choice.

    While leveling, you will get 1 talent point about every 2 levels (41 points total at level 85). Our goal is to alternate between gaining a new class spell or ability and gaining a talent point with each level. As another significant change, you will not be able to put points into a different talent tree until you have dedicated 31 talent points to your primary specialization. While leveling, this will be possible at 70. Picking a talent specialization should feel important. To that end, we want to make sure new players understand the significance of reaching the bottom of their specialization tree before gaining the option of spending points in the other trees. We intend to make sure dual-specialization and re-talenting function exactly as they do today so players do not feel locked into their specialization choice.

    A True Mastery

    The original passive Mastery bonuses players were to receive according to how they spent points in each tree are being replaced by the automatic passive bonuses earned when a tree specialization is chosen. These passives are flat percentages and we no longer intend for them to scale with the number of talent points spent. The Mastery bonus that was unique to each tree will now be derived from the Mastery stat, found on high-level items, and Mastery will be a passive skill learned from class trainers around level 75. In most cases, the Mastery stats will be the same as the tree-unique bonuses we announced earlier this year. These stats can be improved by stacking Mastery Rating found on high-level items.

    To Recap

    When players reach level 10, they are presented with basic information on the three specializations within their class and are asked to choose one. Then they spend their talent point. The other trees darken and are unavailable until 31 points are spent in the chosen tree. The character is awarded an active ability, and one or more passive bonuses unique to the tree they've chosen. As they gain levels, they'll alternate between receiving a talent point and gaining new skills. They'll have a 31-point tree to work down, with each talent being more integral and exciting than they have been in the past. Once they spend their 31'st point in the final talent (at level 70), the other trees open up and become available to allocate points into from then on. As characters move into the level 78+ areas in Cataclysm, they'll begin seeing items with a new stat, Mastery. Once they learn the Mastery skill from their class trainer they'll receive bonuses from the stat based on the tree they've specialized in.

    We understand that these are significant changes and we still have details to solidify. We feel, however, that these changes better fulfill our original class design goals for Cataclysm, and we're confident that they will make for a better gameplay experience. Your constructive feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

    polloface on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Thanks for the copy-paste. I haven't had time to look at the chat thread today. That beast just moves too fast for me to try to get involved in on a typical work day.

    Also, after reading that, ho-lee shit. That's a pretty fundamental change to drop at this point in the development cycle, no? Oh well, it seems like it will be for the better, so I'm excited to see it happen.

    forty on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Thanks for the copy-paste. I haven't had time to look at the chat thread today. That beast just moves too fast for me to try to get involved in on a typical work day.

    Also, after reading that, ho-lee shit. That's a pretty fundamental change to drop at this point in the development cycle, no? Oh well, it seems like it will be for the better, so I'm excited to see it happen.
    GC said they'd already applied this to all the trees ready for the new build. I imagine the passive bonuses are going to make class/spec balance so much easier, it's probably a lot less hassle to change the passive bonuses instead of changing individual talents like they have to now.

    815165 on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Well, the Cataclysm trees have always had the passive bonuses, so that isn't really a new concept. The only real difference between the new system and what they've had for the past year or so is that the passive bonuses are at a full 100% effectiveness right off the bat, rather than scaling up to 100% as you go from 1 to 51 points in the tree. So from the player perspective, the difference in that aspect is that hitting 10 will make your character a shitload more powerful than the incremental upgrade it would have been otherwise.

    forty on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So outside of 10+ man dungeons, there's really not much for me to do in the way of upgrading the equipment on my Protadin.

    I was thinking, out of pure boredom, of maybe attempting to craft a Thunderfury. So here is my question, is Ragnaros reasonably solo'able?

    Wavechaser on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Teaming up with a Rogue is good for 2v2 Arenas right?

    Johannen on
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Kinda hoping that I can get a battered hilt eventually. That sword makes me tingly in all the right places.
    Don't like my chances of getting into any ToC pugs though.

    Rizzi on
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    How does this spec (glyphs included) look for a fresh 80 to start tanking heroics? I basically gave up threat (Reckoning) for more utility.

    Grobian on
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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Grobian wrote: »
    How does this spec (glyphs included) look for a fresh 80 to start tanking heroics? I basically gave up threat (Reckoning) for more utility.

    Drop seal of command, vindication, and 1 point in Imp. Judgement and throw 'em in the Holy tree Seals of the Pure. Use Seal of Corruption/Vengeance to tank.

    SniperGuy on
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  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Anyone in here on Stormrage server? (EU/UK)

    Johannen on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Grobian wrote: »
    How does this spec (glyphs included) look for a fresh 80 to start tanking heroics? I basically gave up threat (Reckoning) for more utility.

    Drop seal of command, vindication, and 1 point in Imp. Judgement and throw 'em in the Holy tree Seals of the Pure. Use Seal of Corruption/Vengeance to tank.

    Seal of Command makes tanking heroics faceroll, I'd almost consider it mandatory in a heroics only spec.

    What I would do is drop the following:

    2 points in Imp Hammer (or the 2 points in Divine Guardian, I doubt it'll get used much in heroics)
    1 point in Spiritual Attunement (you rarely need more than 1/2

    and pick up:

    3/3 Crusade.

    The Righteous Defense glyph is not really necessary, I'd consider picking up Seal of Vengeance for the extra expertise and switch to that seal for bosses.

    Nobody on
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