You don't want your main cooldowns tied to combo-point-esque systems anyway. You want those things available the second you need them.
Holy Shield is a good implementation in this regard I think. It's a decent amount of mitigation, but it's not crazy insane and it's on a short cooldown. So it's more of a "Keep overall damage low" thing rather then "I need to not die right now!!!".
Prot Pallies could use SOMETHING else to spend the Holy Power on though.
You mean like Inquisition?
Something more interesting then that.
And something that won't cause a big pain in the ass with balancing threat.
Well, they could WoG themselves presumably. It'd be sort of like a paladin rune tap, although not as readily available. Not sure what else they can really add as an HP sink that isn't damage or healing (another form of damage mitigation doesn't really make sense).
Yeah, I've been trying to think of something else, but nothings coming to mind. Maybe some sort of strike? Like Shield of Righteousness or something. But you'd need to tie some interesting effect into it.
I suppose. Maybe not everyone likes to play Rogue lite. But you just described to me Rogue gameplay basically. I do think they should rethink how a Ret Paladin does AoE. I haven't kept up with Rogues but can they still spam FoK?
By the way, I can't comment until I've tried the beat but I don't like the current Ret model. Even if you have a lot of attacks, they're just basically the same thing with different shiny lights. No interaction whatsoever in the order you press them. I actually like how Rogues play so I am actually looking forward to HP.
Oh, and regarding Holy Power tied to cooldowns? I hope the devs don't go that way. It didn't work with the DK's IBF and Runic Power.
if rogues only had sinister strike to build cps and only had evis and fok to use those combo points on, then it would be comparable.
So what else do combat rogues use to build CPs?
Rogues are a horrible class to compare against as far as complex ability mechanics go.
Yeah, I've been trying to think of something else, but nothings coming to mind. Maybe some sort of strike? Like Shield of Righteousness or something. But you'd need to tie some interesting effect into it.
Well how is that really any different fundamentally from Inquisition? If it's damage, then there's a potential threat source for the devs to have to balance around.
Yeah, I've been trying to think of something else, but nothings coming to mind. Maybe some sort of strike? Like Shield of Righteousness or something. But you'd need to tie some interesting effect into it.
Well how is that really any different fundamentally from Inquisition? If it's damage, then there's a potential threat source for the devs to have to balance around.
Because it'd be A damage ability and not a flat 30% boost to all your threat.
Either way, whether it's direct damage or a temporary damage buff, if the play style allows Holy Power->threat at times, that's going to end up being a balance consideration.
Here is how Prot paladins are working in our current beta build. You might not see these changes in the next beta build, but in the one after that. Things are still in a high degree of flux however.
Shield of the Righteous -- Now consumes Holy Power to cause damage.
Holy Shield -- Now a passive ability that causes your Shield of the Righteous to provide 5% block per stack of Holy Power consumed. In other words, you never click Holy Shield. You just click Shield of the Righteous and buff yourself.
Hammer of the Righteous -- Now generates Holy Power but shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike. Almost all talents that affect one or the other will affect both. The intention is you use Crusader Strike -> Shield of the Righteous for single target and Hammer of the Righteous -> Shield of the Righteous for multitarget.
Avenger's Shield -- No real change, but it still hits pretty hard. Both CS and HotR can proc Grand Crusader to lower the Avenger's Shield cooldown.
Vindication -- can be caused only by Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous.
Holy Wrath -- With the above changes, we think Prot paladins have enough rotational buttons to hit, so we are downplaying Holy Wrath. Holy Wrath is really intended as a Ret filler spell (for when other attacks are on cooldown). Prot could technically use Holy Wrath, but we aren't providing any talent hooks.
Consecration -- Now on a 10 sec duration with a 30 sec cooldown. The Hallowed Ground talent makes it cheaper and hit harder -- it does not affect duration. Use Consecration when you need it, but you can't spam it. This is consistent with the AE changes we are making to all tanks.
With these changes in mind, Prot will be thinking about buttons such as these:
Single Target: Judgement, Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield.
Multi-target: Judgement, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield, possibly Exorcism.
None of this includes things like Seals, Inquisition, defensive cooldowns, Word of Glory, etc.
I'm finally 80, and I have relentless and furious gear..... the best part? My first ever 25 man raid.... actually, my first ever raid period.... My first ever roll for gear.... was on wrathful cloak of triumph, someone rolls 84, other guy 88, I roll 99.
Sounds like they're moving things to occasional AOE pulls with most stuff being smaller pulls you'll single target down, like how Warriors worked in TBC.
Here is how Prot paladins are working in our current beta build. You might not see these changes in the next beta build, but in the one after that. Things are still in a high degree of flux however.
Shield of the Righteous -- Now consumes Holy Power to cause damage.
Holy Shield -- Now a passive ability that causes your Shield of the Righteous to provide 5% block per stack of Holy Power consumed. In other words, you never click Holy Shield. You just click Shield of the Righteous and buff yourself.
Hammer of the Righteous -- Now generates Holy Power but shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike. Almost all talents that affect one or the other will affect both. The intention is you use Crusader Strike -> Shield of the Righteous for single target and Hammer of the Righteous -> Shield of the Righteous for multitarget.
Avenger's Shield -- No real change, but it still hits pretty hard. Both CS and HotR can proc Grand Crusader to lower the Avenger's Shield cooldown.
Vindication -- can be caused only by Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous.
Holy Wrath -- With the above changes, we think Prot paladins have enough rotational buttons to hit, so we are downplaying Holy Wrath. Holy Wrath is really intended as a Ret filler spell (for when other attacks are on cooldown). Prot could technically use Holy Wrath, but we aren't providing any talent hooks.
Consecration -- Now on a 10 sec duration with a 30 sec cooldown. The Hallowed Ground talent makes it cheaper and hit harder -- it does not affect duration. Use Consecration when you need it, but you can't spam it. This is consistent with the AE changes we are making to all tanks.
With these changes in mind, Prot will be thinking about buttons such as these:
Single Target: Judgement, Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield.
Multi-target: Judgement, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield, possibly Exorcism.
None of this includes things like Seals, Inquisition, defensive cooldowns, Word of Glory, etc.
Okay, I can dig this, you aren't being forced to choose between Inquisition and Holy Shield anymore.
Not sure how exorcism is fitting into multi-target though.
The changes let them accomplish their goals of different rotations for prot aoe and single target while giving us a use for holy power and making it useful / fun. Still a way to go in the beta but this is much better than what they had.
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
In that case, shoulders or chest are the best bet for replacement.
Imp Hammer of Justice is one of those talents that is fine for PVP, but just really doesn't have much use in heroics. About the only thing that you should worry about interrupting on your own is that shadowblast thing that the mobs use in H:OK, and Avengers Shield can help out there if you need to interrupt a second one.
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
Improved HoJ is situational at best, as a tank, your main focus should be threat gen. You should not be needing a 30 second stun all that often in a dungeon or raid.
You can actually swap out your shoulders/gloves for T9 keep your legs, but you definitely need to swap out that helm for the non tier Triumph badge one (of the honorbound)
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
Improved HoJ is situational at best, as a tank, your main focus should be threat gen. You should not be needing a 30 second stun all that often in a dungeon or raid.
You can actually swap out your shoulders/gloves for T9 keep your legs, but you definitely need to swap out that helm for the non tier Triumph badge one (of the honorbound)
Why is T9 2P bonus worth shooting for? I have not noticed up till this point that my Hand of Reckoning was not coming off of cooldown quickly enough. I usually use it for the pull, followed up by Avenger Shield as I'm running to the mobs.
I looked on Wowhead and I could get the helmet of the honorbound and shoulders of enduring order for triumph badges (both are iLvl 245). If I hold out for t10P2 bonus with legs/gloves from 25VOA that does not leave me enough pieces to get a t9 bonus set.
I could do t9 shoulders and chest for the p2 bonus. Is it worth using iLvl 232 shoulder instead of iLvl245 in order to get the bonus?
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
Improved HoJ is situational at best, as a tank, your main focus should be threat gen. You should not be needing a 30 second stun all that often in a dungeon or raid.
You can actually swap out your shoulders/gloves for T9 keep your legs, but you definitely need to swap out that helm for the non tier Triumph badge one (of the honorbound)
Why is T9 2P bonus worth shooting for? I have not noticed up till this point that my Hand of Reckoning was not coming off of cooldown quickly enough. I usually use it for the pull, followed up by Avenger Shield as I'm running to the mobs.
I looked on Wowhead and I could get the helmet of the honorbound and shoulders of enduring order for triumph badges (both are iLvl 245). If I hold out for t10P2 bonus with legs/gloves from 25VOA that does not leave me enough pieces to get a t9 bonus set.
I could do t9 shoulders and chest for the p2 bonus. Is it worth using iLvl 232 shoulder instead of iLvl245 in order to get the bonus?
There's another bonus on the 2pT9 besides the taunt bonus. Namely the 5% HotR damage. The taunt bonus is just an extra.
I'd link to it on Wowhead but I'm having trouble getting to it today.
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
Improved HoJ is situational at best, as a tank, your main focus should be threat gen. You should not be needing a 30 second stun all that often in a dungeon or raid.
You can actually swap out your shoulders/gloves for T9 keep your legs, but you definitely need to swap out that helm for the non tier Triumph badge one (of the honorbound)
Why is T9 2P bonus worth shooting for? I have not noticed up till this point that my Hand of Reckoning was not coming off of cooldown quickly enough. I usually use it for the pull, followed up by Avenger Shield as I'm running to the mobs.
I looked on Wowhead and I could get the helmet of the honorbound and shoulders of enduring order for triumph badges (both are iLvl 245). If I hold out for t10P2 bonus with legs/gloves from 25VOA that does not leave me enough pieces to get a t9 bonus set.
I could do t9 shoulders and chest for the p2 bonus. Is it worth using iLvl 232 shoulder instead of iLvl245 in order to get the bonus?
There's another bonus on the 2pT9 besides the taunt bonus. Namely the 5% HotR damage. The taunt bonus is just an extra.
I'd link to it on Wowhead but I'm having trouble getting to it today.
I did see the 5% bonus but, I was thinking about it as the other way around. 2 seconds off of HoR being the main benefit and 5% being the free benefit extra.
So you think 5% to HotR makes enough difference to accept iLvl232 in place of iLvl245 item?
Mmm, if i get the T10p2 as well I would have +25% damage to HotR then
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
If the off set pieces you can wear in place of the 232 T9 are individually better, I'd just use them instead. I doubt threat is an issue for you and 5% more damage on something that's around 25% of your damage isn't going to be a game changer.
Turalyon's Shoulderguards of Conquest
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1777 Armor
+68 Strength
+122 Stamina
Blue Socket
Durability: 100 / 100
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 80
Item Level 232
Equip: Increases defense rating by 60
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 60
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 37
vs
Shoulderplates of Frozen Blood
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1777 Armor
+68 Strength
+134 Stamina
Durability: 100 / 100
Requires Level 80
Item Level 232
Equip: Increases defense rating by 64
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 52
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 45
The added socket, the 5% bonus damage and +8 more dodge are far superior to the ones used now.
Also if you are referring to
Shoulderplates of Enduring Order
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1854 Armor
+101 Strength
+139 Stamina
Red Socket
Durability: 100 / 100
Requires Level 80
Item Level 245
Equip: Increases defense rating by 53
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 45
Equip: Increases your parry rating by 53
I'd personally rather have the 5% damage, +7 defense and +5 dodge and not worry about glyphing seal of vengeance to get to the expertise soft cap instead of +53 parry +17 stamina and needing to change glyphs
he could then swap out his Glyph Vengeance for Glyph Judgments and get 10% more damage from everyone of those too.
Oh, that's a nice list. I'm probably gonna resub in a couple of weeks but I was thinking about speccing holy this time around. Is there a similar Holy shopping list?
quick and dirty holy emblem pick list
frost
T10 gloves are first
T10 shoulders
Triumph
Talisman of Resurgence trinket
T9 chest
T9 pants
Heartmender Circle ring
Heroism Libram
If you are really unlucky - Egg of mortal essence trinket
Normal pit of saron for shield
actually just chain normal FoS, HoR, PoS and get everything out of there.
I remember heroic nexus has a good weapon, but for some reason I remember getting a better one out if ICC 5 mans.
You may want Shoulderplates of the Cavalier if frost emblems are low supply. If frost emblems are coming in at a decent pace, save up triumph pick up the Headguard of Inner Warmth. I know it is mail but its great.
Insightful meta gem, put a nightmare tear in a blue socket with the highest bonus( the inner warmth helm?) and then gem all intellect.
I am sure this might not be the absolute best and if anyone has any better advice go ahead.
Would it be possible to solo Moroes + some MC content as a T9ish holy pally, or would I pretty much have to respec?
Holy Pally? Dear god, why would you want to solo *anything* as a Holy Pally?
Anyway, I wouldn't think so, unless you wanted to take eons doing it. A T9ish Prot Pally sure. MC stuff gets tricky, though I know particular DK tanking builds can solo pretty much the whole thing. I've soloed most of the bosses in Karazhan with... two of my three tanks, the third, my druid hasn't really but probably could.
I managed kill 6 of the 10 MC bosses as Ret except for:
Golmagg (tried once and didn't bother again. It is supposed to be really easy to take him down as Prot though. Target his add, go to town with seal and judgmetn of light, 30 minutes later he's dead).
Gehennas (the -75% to healing debuff is a pita)
Majordomo and Ragnaros I have not had a chance to try yet.
I am going to try it again as Prot once I get some free time on my hands.
On a side note, it is such a blast of nostalgia to go back to Molten Core. I remember back in the day when we raided the place with 40 people, wiped weeks after weeks. I remember the first Ragnaros kill. Ah, memories :P
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
I did all of Kara and ZG and most of MC without any T10 items in my Prot spec. I had 2pt9 and the ilvl 245 head and shoulders.
Yeah, now that I got the upgrades suggested above (few posts up is my armory) I'm hoping Prot will let me get all of MC. I'm trying to farm the Weapon - Spellpower enchant while I'm there
Brew on
1st ever "Penny-Arcade Hero Academy Tournament" Toilet Bowl Champion!
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
I managed kill 6 of the 10 MC bosses as Ret except for:
Golmagg (tried once and didn't bother again. It is supposed to be really easy to take him down as Prot though. Target his add, go to town with seal and judgmetn of light, 30 minutes later he's dead).
Gehennas (the -75% to healing debuff is a pita)
Majordomo and Ragnaros I have not had a chance to try yet.
I am going to try it again as Prot once I get some free time on my hands.
On a side note, it is such a blast of nostalgia to go back to Molten Core. I remember back in the day when we raided the place with 40 people, wiped weeks after weeks. I remember the first Ragnaros kill. Ah, memories :P
Golemagg you pretty much need to be Prot on. And even then, depending on gear level, you'll probably have to DS once or twice to let the stacking debuff expire or to keep up with the enrage damage at the end.
Gehennas I also killed using Prot, and lots of shadow resist gear. Had to use Sacred Shield on every cooldown. Get as low as possibe, DS once to clear the curse and heal back up to full, get as low as possible a second time then use a Purification Potion to clear the curse a second time and Lay on Hands immediately without giving him time to reapply it, and hope DS is up for a second time once more at the end of the fight.
Majordomo and Ragnaros I both beat using Ret. Majordomos adds aren't ??, they're level 62 elites. Shrug them off and kill them one at a time. For Ragnaros, Sacred Shield is vital again, as is knowing exactly where to stand. You'll get punted, but you'll land in deep enough lava that you won't take fall damage and can hop back out of it towards him. You'll take damage, sure, but it's not lethal and it's a straight-line hop back to him.
Posts
Yeah, I've been trying to think of something else, but nothings coming to mind. Maybe some sort of strike? Like Shield of Righteousness or something. But you'd need to tie some interesting effect into it.
Rogues are a horrible class to compare against as far as complex ability mechanics go.
Because it'd be A damage ability and not a flat 30% boost to all your threat.
Okay, I can dig this, you aren't being forced to choose between Inquisition and Holy Shield anymore.
Not sure how exorcism is fitting into multi-target though.
The changes let them accomplish their goals of different rotations for prot aoe and single target while giving us a use for holy power and making it useful / fun. Still a way to go in the beta but this is much better than what they had.
I need some advice on upgrading my gear. I've decided to focus on tanking. So far I've tanked pretty much all the heroics (I think with exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection). I don't really have the time to be part of a raiding group.
Here is I http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&cn=Khorgal
I have:
- 126 Frost emblems (never spent them since I started collecting)
- 79 Triumph (easy to get more, tank insta-queues whee)
- 65k honor
~300 Stone Keeper.
~55 Wintergrasp marks.
- Very little gold
I was thinking of spending
60 frost on the corroded skeleton key trinket
50 frost on the tanking cape
75 triumph on iLvl helmet
No idea what to spend honor on anymore. I guess alternative is to spend 53k honor on pvp helmet and use triumphs for Clutch of fortification and... I'm not sure what else.
Oh, I also need to spend my last 5 talent points somewhere.
Help me out with some suggestions and ideas
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
Use Honor (and shards to get Honor) for Gems, you'll need them.
Frost badges:
1st: Cape
2nd: Belt
3rd: Key
Triumph badges
1. Pick up 2pT9 (gloves and probably legs work best).
2. Your next purchase should either be the 75 badge helm (the one that has a load of expertise on it), or turning them into Runed Orbs (for the crafted Ulduar boots), or Crusader Orbs (for the crafted bracers).
3. Then start working on getting the Ring, and then the Trinket.
4. At some point get the 219 tanking neck too. You may want to get this before the Ring and Trinket since it's relatively easy.
Farming:
1. Run ToC Normal until you get The Black Heart
2. Before queing for your random heroics, queue for HCoS. You need a new shield badly and that's probably the easiest upgrade.
3. If you are unlucky in finding somebody to craft the Ulduar tanking boots, start queuing specifically for HFoS for a shot at the boots in there.
Spec & Glyphing:
1. Glyphs are fine
2: Make the following talent changes:
-2 Imp Hammer of Justice
-3 Benediction
+3 Heart of the Crusader
+2 Vindication
+2 Pursuit of Justice
+3 Crusade
Nobody - Thanks for the ideas. Some questions:
I use Hammer of Justice quite often that's why I got the two points in that talent. Should I not bother using it?
Another thing: I don't think I want to replace my legs with the t9 ones (iLvl232) since my current legs are the best piece of gear I got
Hopefully 25VoA (server pick-ups happen all the time for this) will continue being good to me and get me t10 gloves.
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
In that case, shoulders or chest are the best bet for replacement.
Imp Hammer of Justice is one of those talents that is fine for PVP, but just really doesn't have much use in heroics. About the only thing that you should worry about interrupting on your own is that shadowblast thing that the mobs use in H:OK, and Avengers Shield can help out there if you need to interrupt a second one.
Improved HoJ is situational at best, as a tank, your main focus should be threat gen. You should not be needing a 30 second stun all that often in a dungeon or raid.
You can actually swap out your shoulders/gloves for T9 keep your legs, but you definitely need to swap out that helm for the non tier Triumph badge one (of the honorbound)
Why is T9 2P bonus worth shooting for? I have not noticed up till this point that my Hand of Reckoning was not coming off of cooldown quickly enough. I usually use it for the pull, followed up by Avenger Shield as I'm running to the mobs.
I looked on Wowhead and I could get the helmet of the honorbound and shoulders of enduring order for triumph badges (both are iLvl 245). If I hold out for t10P2 bonus with legs/gloves from 25VOA that does not leave me enough pieces to get a t9 bonus set.
I could do t9 shoulders and chest for the p2 bonus. Is it worth using iLvl 232 shoulder instead of iLvl245 in order to get the bonus?
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
There's another bonus on the 2pT9 besides the taunt bonus. Namely the 5% HotR damage. The taunt bonus is just an extra.
I'd link to it on Wowhead but I'm having trouble getting to it today.
I did see the 5% bonus but, I was thinking about it as the other way around. 2 seconds off of HoR being the main benefit and 5% being the free benefit extra.
So you think 5% to HotR makes enough difference to accept iLvl232 in place of iLvl245 item?
Mmm, if i get the T10p2 as well I would have +25% damage to HotR then
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
Plus remember that just because an item has a higher Ilvl doesn't mean that it's automatically an upgrade.
And yeah, there are prot paladins who pvp using 2pT9 and 2pT10 for the big HotRs :P
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1777 Armor
+68 Strength
+122 Stamina
Blue Socket
Durability: 100 / 100
Classes: Paladin
Requires Level 80
Item Level 232
Equip: Increases defense rating by 60
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 60
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 37
vs
Shoulderplates of Frozen Blood
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1777 Armor
+68 Strength
+134 Stamina
Durability: 100 / 100
Requires Level 80
Item Level 232
Equip: Increases defense rating by 64
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 52
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 45
The added socket, the 5% bonus damage and +8 more dodge are far superior to the ones used now.
Also if you are referring to
Shoulderplates of Enduring Order
Binds when picked up
PlateShoulders
1854 Armor
+101 Strength
+139 Stamina
Red Socket
Durability: 100 / 100
Requires Level 80
Item Level 245
Equip: Increases defense rating by 53
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 45
Equip: Increases your parry rating by 53
I'd personally rather have the 5% damage, +7 defense and +5 dodge and not worry about glyphing seal of vengeance to get to the expertise soft cap instead of +53 parry +17 stamina and needing to change glyphs
he could then swap out his Glyph Vengeance for Glyph Judgments and get 10% more damage from everyone of those too.
THIS very recently moved away from this but it was great while it lasted.
frost
T10 gloves are first
T10 shoulders
Triumph
Talisman of Resurgence trinket
T9 chest
T9 pants
Heartmender Circle ring
Heroism Libram
If you are really unlucky - Egg of mortal essence trinket
Normal pit of saron for shield
actually just chain normal FoS, HoR, PoS and get everything out of there.
I remember heroic nexus has a good weapon, but for some reason I remember getting a better one out if ICC 5 mans.
You may want Shoulderplates of the Cavalier if frost emblems are low supply. If frost emblems are coming in at a decent pace, save up triumph pick up the Headguard of Inner Warmth. I know it is mail but its great.
Insightful meta gem, put a nightmare tear in a blue socket with the highest bonus( the inner warmth helm?) and then gem all intellect.
I am sure this might not be the absolute best and if anyone has any better advice go ahead.
Holy Pally? Dear god, why would you want to solo *anything* as a Holy Pally?
Anyway, I wouldn't think so, unless you wanted to take eons doing it. A T9ish Prot Pally sure. MC stuff gets tricky, though I know particular DK tanking builds can solo pretty much the whole thing. I've soloed most of the bosses in Karazhan with... two of my three tanks, the third, my druid hasn't really but probably could.
Still need two elementium ore...
Golmagg (tried once and didn't bother again. It is supposed to be really easy to take him down as Prot though. Target his add, go to town with seal and judgmetn of light, 30 minutes later he's dead).
Gehennas (the -75% to healing debuff is a pita)
Majordomo and Ragnaros I have not had a chance to try yet.
I am going to try it again as Prot once I get some free time on my hands.
On a side note, it is such a blast of nostalgia to go back to Molten Core. I remember back in the day when we raided the place with 40 people, wiped weeks after weeks. I remember the first Ragnaros kill. Ah, memories :P
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
Yeah, now that I got the upgrades suggested above (few posts up is my armory) I'm hoping Prot will let me get all of MC. I'm trying to farm the Weapon - Spellpower enchant while I'm there
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
Golemagg you pretty much need to be Prot on. And even then, depending on gear level, you'll probably have to DS once or twice to let the stacking debuff expire or to keep up with the enrage damage at the end.
Gehennas I also killed using Prot, and lots of shadow resist gear. Had to use Sacred Shield on every cooldown. Get as low as possibe, DS once to clear the curse and heal back up to full, get as low as possible a second time then use a Purification Potion to clear the curse a second time and Lay on Hands immediately without giving him time to reapply it, and hope DS is up for a second time once more at the end of the fight.
Majordomo and Ragnaros I both beat using Ret. Majordomos adds aren't ??, they're level 62 elites. Shrug them off and kill them one at a time. For Ragnaros, Sacred Shield is vital again, as is knowing exactly where to stand. You'll get punted, but you'll land in deep enough lava that you won't take fall damage and can hop back out of it towards him. You'll take damage, sure, but it's not lethal and it's a straight-line hop back to him.