I had stopped playing WoW a long while ago (before Wrath of the Lich King, I think it was right before the Sunwell came out), and I had played a Blood Elf Protection Paladin and I really enjoyed tanking. I'm thinking of jumping back into WoW now and I've already noticed just by looking at these boards and on the WoW site that Paladins (all classes, really) have had a lot of changes. How different is Prot nowadays in comparison to TBC? Are we still dependant on spell power for the holy damage, or did we get some physical (AP / Strength) added into our abilities?
Most things have changed. We are much more active tanks then before, instead of relying on consecrate and reflective damage. We get spell power from our stamina, thanks to a talent. Because of that talent, we now use strictly tanking gear, no spell damage on tier pieces or caster weapons. Our spells now scale with both AP and SP.
We've lost some of the flavor that made us unique, but we are much stronger tanks now. You no longer have to prove that paladins can tank, just that you can.
Tin on
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Used to be Stamina, but then Prot Pallies starting using PVP gear to do huge damage (no resist to Holy, lol) So the talent was changed to Strength. Ret Pallies get spell power from AP.
I kinda like Ret at 85 (feels a bit more frantic now, but I just ran my first 85 instance last night), but I keep forgetting to refresh Inquisition.
Time to get Power Auras up and running finally >.<
I'm not sure inquisition is worth it, ret really doesn't do a lot of holy damage these days.
Last I heard it was a tossup in a raid setting wherein if you played perfectly inq was barely worth it, while if done wrong you lost a fair bit of damage.
How much does Censure account for Ret DPS? Also, remember Exo (AoW procs take priority over anything else except Hammer) and Hammer of Wrath benefit from the boost. I don't think Inq is worth in trash mobs, I might have to check my logs during boss fights tho.
Most things have changed. We are much more active tanks then before, instead of relying on consecrate and reflective damage. We get spell power from our stamina, thanks to a talent. Because of that talent, we now use strictly tanking gear, no spell damage on tier pieces or caster weapons. Our spells now scale with both AP and SP.
We've lost some of the flavor that made us unique, but we are much stronger tanks now. You no longer have to prove that paladins can tank, just that you can.
Thanks, it does indeed seem like Protection Paladins are a different breed from when I played. I saw where the itemization has changed, I saw that they even changed all the previous gear, too (Str and Stam gear for tanking sets). So, since we get Spellpower from Strength, we even use "Warrior" (at least what would've been Warrior weapons) weapons for tanking?
Also, since I'm about to get back into WoW after a very long time, is Prot viable for levelling / solo questing? I remember being able to handle questing just fine even if it was a little slow due to my low damage as a Prot Pally, and farming was always fun finding a large amount of melee mobs and just porcupining them to death. Is it a different style for Protection soloing now, or is it similar to before?
Most things have changed. We are much more active tanks then before, instead of relying on consecrate and reflective damage. We get spell power from our stamina, thanks to a talent. Because of that talent, we now use strictly tanking gear, no spell damage on tier pieces or caster weapons. Our spells now scale with both AP and SP.
We've lost some of the flavor that made us unique, but we are much stronger tanks now. You no longer have to prove that paladins can tank, just that you can.
Thanks, it does indeed seem like Protection Paladins are a different breed from when I played. I saw where the itemization has changed, I saw that they even changed all the previous gear, too (Str and Stam gear for tanking sets). So, since we get Spellpower from Strength, we even use "Warrior" (at least what would've been Warrior weapons) weapons for tanking?
Also, since I'm about to get back into WoW after a very long time, is Prot viable for levelling / solo questing? I remember being able to handle questing just fine even if it was a little slow due to my low damage as a Prot Pally, and farming was always fun finding a large amount of melee mobs and just porcupining them to death. Is it a different style for Protection soloing now, or is it similar to before?
yes and no. Holy Shield doesn't have it's reactive damage anymore, and consecrate is expensive. Mostly I still AoE mobs down with Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Wrath, and Avengers Shield.
The thing that really screws up AoE leveling is that blocking doesn't negate a fixed amount; it only reduces 30% of incoming damage. So gathering 20 mobs is probably a bad idea unless you blow cooldowns.
The thing that really screws up AoE leveling is that blocking doesn't negate a fixed amount; it only reduces 30% of incoming damage. So gathering 20 mobs is probably a bad idea unless you blow cooldowns.
40% block when Holy Shield is up (and if you're attempting this, it should be!), and you can pump your block chance pretty high with Mastery once you hit 80, but yeah, what Lionheart says.
Honestly I felt like they had paladin healing perfect (mechanics wise). Taking out the holy power generation of holy light just makes it even more worthless now. If they were worried about our regen, why didn't they just nerf WoG and LoD? I feel this would have been a better option, as it causes us to heal more and rely less on these free heals. It feels as though they gave us these shiny new heals, and interesting ways to use them and now they've taken that awesome mechanic away...
Yes I know this is a bit of a QQ, and yes I realized that hpallys were OP and needed a nerf. I feel they have taken the wrong path on this nerf, there was other options that didn't also nerf our fun.
I feel that Tower of Radiance is now an almost worthless talent, and I am even considering taking the PvP holy generation talent (forget what it is called) instead.
TL;DR:
Holy paladins needed the nerf, but we were nerfed in a way that needlessly made healing less fun.
# Tower of Radiance no longer grants Holy Power from Holy Lights cast on a target buffed with Beacon of Light. It continues to work as the tooltip describes for Flash of Light and Divine Light. Please note the tooltip may not be updated to reflect this change until a client-side patch is applied.
# Healing done by Beacon of Light is now properly affected by healing modifiers on targets which reduce healing done (i.e. Mortal Strike).
# The healing done by Light of Dawn has been reduced by approximately 40%. Please note the tooltip may not be updated to reflect this change until a client-side patch is applied.
I dunno how holy palys were before the nerf, but i tried a heroic last night and it was a true buttkicking for the likes ive never felt before. Before if things were tough and i still felt i had a chance. One pull last night, i knew i didnt stand a chance and it was trash. We didnt wipe, but i felt rather inadequate. My heals were piddly, i think i crit holy shock for 9k .. 9 FREAKIN K... really.. i used to crit that for around 16k. I know im not geared for it tho. Ill try again when im better geared, but it cool to see HEROIC meaning exaclty what it says.
And people that ask for classes to get nerfed.. i will never understand that mentality.
I dunno.. the guild priest i was with was having not as many issues in Heroic Halls of Origination. We had an extra CC tho. Not saying it was easy. It was still tough, and we wiped a few times. But that maybe just a gear/right combo group/she knows what shes doing.
Honestly I felt like they had paladin healing perfect (mechanics wise). Taking out the holy power generation of holy light just makes it even more worthless now. If they were worried about our regen, why didn't they just nerf WoG and LoD? I feel this would have been a better option, as it causes us to heal more and rely less on these free heals. It feels as though they gave us these shiny new heals, and interesting ways to use them and now they've taken that awesome mechanic away...
How does that make HL worthless? It's still just as efficient and still heals just as much. It just doesn't pump up 1/3 of a powerful, free heal when cast on the MT.
Honestly I felt like they had paladin healing perfect (mechanics wise). Taking out the holy power generation of holy light just makes it even more worthless now. If they were worried about our regen, why didn't they just nerf WoG and LoD? I feel this would have been a better option, as it causes us to heal more and rely less on these free heals. It feels as though they gave us these shiny new heals, and interesting ways to use them and now they've taken that awesome mechanic away...
How does that make HL worthless? It's still just as efficient and still heals just as much. It just doesn't pump up 1/3 of a powerful, free heal when cast on the MT.
That was one of the main reasons to use it, IMO. Since it heals for squat, it needed to have a benefit from using it on the tank. I feel as though they nerfed that *fun* mechanic to deal with longevity when they could have just made WoG heal for less. I don't know, I just feel they made an incorrect decision on how to nerf us.
I'm intrigued on why people think Inquisition is a waste of Holy Power? My Melee, TV and Crusader Strike are about 40% of my damage output. The rest comes from Holy Sources (Exo, Censure, HoW, Judge and HW). It's not a waste even as Prot. I see my damage spike whenever I pop it.
It's sucky for trash and questing...but it's really good for boss fights.
Considering ShoR makes up 20-25% of my damage when I'm doing that instead of WoGing my way to victory, how could inquisiton be worth it for protection?
For single target, sure it isn't worth it. For AoE you've got HoR, HW, Consecration and Judgement. Just spamming HoR while Inquisition is up will see a boost on your damage.
I barely use consecration, too expensive as well as not really reliable with the long cooldown.
Guess if you always fight 4+ mobs it may be worth it though, but most heroic packs are just 2-3 mobs since you CC the rest. And any large groups of mobs are killed before you have time to get 3 holy power :P.
Ok, Ret Paladins. Are you using your Meta? That stupid requirement is killing me. I currently have 3 items with sockets and I'm unsure if I should swap some +Str gems for some +str/+hit gems to achieve the requirement.
Also...I've been wondering. Is the BS PvP crafted gear good for some DPS? My DPS set is still very low Ilevel compared to my Tank set and I was wondering if I could cut some corners here and there.
Also...I've been wondering. Is the BS PvP crafted gear good for some DPS? My DPS set is still very low Ilevel compared to my Tank set and I was wondering if I could cut some corners here and there.
Why wonder... if its higher stats than what you got, then its better. You will just be missing one of the modifiers replaced with resilience.
But isn't PvP gear mostly Mastery? (I'm at work so I can't really look at the stats). I suppose you could Reforge away Resilience but you're still stuck with a crappy stat.
I think it goes: Hit and Expertise cap. Then Strength > Haste > Crit >>>>>>Mastery.
Reforge away all the mastery you can. It's our worst stat. You want to pump your haste as high as you can to get 3s CD on CS. Also, more hits = more HoL procs and more Censure Ticks.
If it's like most the other DPS specs now, Strength beats hit (and especially expertise) even before you're capped. Basically that means you should never get hit and/or expertise at the cost of strength (i.e., enchants and gems), but rather through reforging mastery and crit.
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We've lost some of the flavor that made us unique, but we are much stronger tanks now. You no longer have to prove that paladins can tank, just that you can.
Used to be Stamina, but then Prot Pallies starting using PVP gear to do huge damage (no resist to Holy, lol) So the talent was changed to Strength. Ret Pallies get spell power from AP.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
s6 prot-holy/frostdk was instant gladiator if you had the ulduar sigil
Time to get Power Auras up and running finally >.<
Yeah, brain fart on my part.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I'm not sure inquisition is worth it, ret really doesn't do a lot of holy damage these days.
Last I heard it was a tossup in a raid setting wherein if you played perfectly inq was barely worth it, while if done wrong you lost a fair bit of damage.
Thanks, it does indeed seem like Protection Paladins are a different breed from when I played. I saw where the itemization has changed, I saw that they even changed all the previous gear, too (Str and Stam gear for tanking sets). So, since we get Spellpower from Strength, we even use "Warrior" (at least what would've been Warrior weapons) weapons for tanking?
Also, since I'm about to get back into WoW after a very long time, is Prot viable for levelling / solo questing? I remember being able to handle questing just fine even if it was a little slow due to my low damage as a Prot Pally, and farming was always fun finding a large amount of melee mobs and just porcupining them to death. Is it a different style for Protection soloing now, or is it similar to before?
yes and no. Holy Shield doesn't have it's reactive damage anymore, and consecrate is expensive. Mostly I still AoE mobs down with Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Wrath, and Avengers Shield.
40% block when Holy Shield is up (and if you're attempting this, it should be!), and you can pump your block chance pretty high with Mastery once you hit 80, but yeah, what Lionheart says.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Honestly I felt like they had paladin healing perfect (mechanics wise). Taking out the holy power generation of holy light just makes it even more worthless now. If they were worried about our regen, why didn't they just nerf WoG and LoD? I feel this would have been a better option, as it causes us to heal more and rely less on these free heals. It feels as though they gave us these shiny new heals, and interesting ways to use them and now they've taken that awesome mechanic away...
Yes I know this is a bit of a QQ, and yes I realized that hpallys were OP and needed a nerf. I feel they have taken the wrong path on this nerf, there was other options that didn't also nerf our fun.
I feel that Tower of Radiance is now an almost worthless talent, and I am even considering taking the PvP holy generation talent (forget what it is called) instead.
TL;DR:
Holy paladins needed the nerf, but we were nerfed in a way that needlessly made healing less fun.
What was the nerf?
I noticed tower of radiance doing absolutely nothing, but the tooltip still read the same for me last night.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
# Tower of Radiance no longer grants Holy Power from Holy Lights cast on a target buffed with Beacon of Light. It continues to work as the tooltip describes for Flash of Light and Divine Light. Please note the tooltip may not be updated to reflect this change until a client-side patch is applied.
# Healing done by Beacon of Light is now properly affected by healing modifiers on targets which reduce healing done (i.e. Mortal Strike).
# The healing done by Light of Dawn has been reduced by approximately 40%. Please note the tooltip may not be updated to reflect this change until a client-side patch is applied.
And people that ask for classes to get nerfed.. i will never understand that mentality.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That was one of the main reasons to use it, IMO. Since it heals for squat, it needed to have a benefit from using it on the tank. I feel as though they nerfed that *fun* mechanic to deal with longevity when they could have just made WoG heal for less. I don't know, I just feel they made an incorrect decision on how to nerf us.
HL still gets a bonus and heals for 50% more if you're healing the non-BoL'd target.
It's sucky for trash and questing...but it's really good for boss fights.
Guess if you always fight 4+ mobs it may be worth it though, but most heroic packs are just 2-3 mobs since you CC the rest. And any large groups of mobs are killed before you have time to get 3 holy power :P.
The new level 85 meta gems are currently like 1200 gold on my server, so I'll be using a wrath one for a while.
Why wonder... if its higher stats than what you got, then its better. You will just be missing one of the modifiers replaced with resilience.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Reforge away all the mastery you can. It's our worst stat. You want to pump your haste as high as you can to get 3s CD on CS. Also, more hits = more HoL procs and more Censure Ticks.
Also, what's this about reforging? Where do you do it, is it super expensive? Is it worth it to do it on quest greens and stuff?