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[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

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Posts

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    In Orgrimmar, the reforger is in the enchanter's house. I assume it's the same for Stormwind or other places with one. The cost to reforge is the full durability vendor price of an item, so anywhere from about 5g for jewelry to 30g+ for weapons.

    I would not bother with it on quest greens. Probably not really worth doing on anything that isn't 333+.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    But isn't PvP gear mostly Mastery? (I'm at work so I can't really look at the stats). I suppose you could Reforge away Resilience but you're still stuck with a crappy stat.

    I thought you were asking if its worth to buy the crafted pvp stuff as a starting point before gearing up in dungeons/heroics... because it is a step above the quested greens/blues from leveling.

    I'm not sure if the ret set is just mastery though, I think it has some crit in there. You wont find hit that I know of, but like others said its not a focus anymore. Blizzard said too, that most things like hit should be through your spec and a normal stat. I know with my shaman, my spell hit is through my spirit when specced correctly.... so difference of a pve and pvp spec is putting less points into that talent since you only need to cap for hitting a 85 player (1 point instead of 3).

    Basically, if you are sitting in greens with shit for STR compared to the crafted PVP blues, then buy them if they are not a stupid price and you wont have tons of time to grind dungeons.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think it goes: Hit and Expertise cap. Then Strength > Haste > Crit >>>>>>Mastery.

    Reforge away all the mastery you can. It's our worst stat. You want to pump your haste as high as you can to get 3s CD on CS. Also, more hits = more HoL procs and more Censure Ticks.

    It's not actually possible to hit 3s CD on CS with current itemization, as far as I know.

    Salvation122 on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Wait, I thought Ret mastery was awesome...?

    Also, what's this about reforging? Where do you do it, is it super expensive? Is it worth it to do it on quest greens and stuff?

    Ret mastery increases your chance for a HoL proc, which isn't bad. The problem is that HoL only procs off autoattacks, so haste - which increases your swing speed - provides the same benefits as mastery and boosts your white damage and seal damage.

    I would probably gear for mastery over crit, but that may not be optimal. The true stat weights for Ret haven't been derived yet, at least as far as EJ is telling me.

    Salvation122 on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The worst thing about mastery is that TV isn't our most powerful attack (even if it represents a good chunk of our overall damage). It's HoW and Exo. So even if you get a lucky streak of 3 HoL procs, you must prioritize Exo and HoW before hitting that TV. You'll end up wasting a lot of procs. IMHO they should put something off the GCD.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The worst thing about mastery is that TV isn't our most powerful attack (even if it represents a good chunk of our overall damage). It's HoW and Exo. So even if you get a lucky streak of 3 HoL procs, you must prioritize Exo and HoW before hitting that TV. You'll end up wasting a lot of procs. IMHO they should put something off the GCD.

    I like Hand of Light procs because they feed very nicely into Selfless Healer procs and let me back up the actual healer.

    That, and they can fuel Zealotry or Inquisition, as well. So, if you're getting a lot of HoL procs, just keep Inquisition running for free.

    Elvenshae on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think it goes: Hit and Expertise cap. Then Strength > Haste > Crit >>>>>>Mastery.

    Reforge away all the mastery you can. It's our worst stat. You want to pump your haste as high as you can to get 3s CD on CS. Also, more hits = more HoL procs and more Censure Ticks.

    Real quick, what does it take to cap Hit and Expertise?

    Wavechaser on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    I think it goes: Hit and Expertise cap. Then Strength > Haste > Crit >>>>>>Mastery.

    Reforge away all the mastery you can. It's our worst stat. You want to pump your haste as high as you can to get 3s CD on CS. Also, more hits = more HoL procs and more Censure Ticks.

    Real quick, what does it take to cap Hit and Expertise?

    It actually shows what you need on your character sheet.

    Elvenshae on
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The worst thing about mastery is that TV isn't our most powerful attack (even if it represents a good chunk of our overall damage). It's HoW and Exo. So even if you get a lucky streak of 3 HoL procs, you must prioritize Exo and HoW before hitting that TV. You'll end up wasting a lot of procs. IMHO they should put something off the GCD.

    I dunno, my TV is hitting about as hard as Exo and HoW, though...

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So, I just reactivated my account with a 10 day trial of WotLK (so I could try it out before I bothered to go and buy it) and I loaded up by BE Paladin, and holy crap it's awesome. At first I was very sad that some of my gear was gone, looks like somebody had gotten into my account while I was gone, I lost my epic shield from Hyjal and my sword. Luckily my armor with all its gems and enchants was okay, they also got rid of my jewelcrafting for herbalism (more than likely a farming bot), but that's neither here nor there.

    So, I just had to go buy a cheap 1h and shield, because I wanted to see the Prot changes and, yeah, they're great. It's amazing how quickly I'm able to kill the mobs in the first Northrend area and I have no downtim at all, because of the mana regen boost after using Judgement. Hammer / Shield of the Righteous are beastly and Avenger's Shield does a huge amount of damage at the moment. I suppose it might get a little slower once the mobs have more health but I'm certain it'll be much faster than it used to be for me to kill stuff back around TBC. I do, however, miss Holy Shield as it used to be increasing block chance but that's something I have to come to terms with.

    Also, Exorcism and Holy Wrath changes were pretty surprising (not sure if they did that for WotLK or Cata) but also very nice since they're not just "flavor" abilities against undead / demons anymore.

    Zomro on
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Holy shield is in the background now. If you work with the Holy Power system, you'll discover you can use it on a heal (Word of Glory) and a single target shield bash attack (Shield of the Righteous). Both of these give you a Holy Shield buff. Not as good as the old Holy shield, but easier to keep up.

    captaink on
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The more I play with the new changes, the more I'm loving them. Right now I'm 73 and I can easily solo elite mobs just through sheer attrition. I never run out of mana and I just Word of Glory myself and my overheal (if any) turns into a damage reducing shield. It's brilliant! I just solo'd Gigantaur and Dreadtalon in Dragonblight just last night and it was no challenge at all. Now, I doubt I could do the same with multiple elites, but right now it's just beautiful. I can't wait to see how all of this plays out when I get to tank an actual instance. It looks to be a ton of fun (I've always liked tanking).

    Zomro on
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    If you last tanked in TBC it is literally not the same game any more.

    These days you have actual skills meant for tanking, and actual cooldowns to reduce damage done and everything. Good times!

    Frozenzen on
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'm pretty much just excited to tank again in general. But I'm gonna love "relearning" it.

    Zomro on
  • The Count Of Midget FistoThe Count Of Midget Fisto Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So I just reactivated under peer pressure from my friends. The last time I played was the beginning of T8. Could someone point me in the direction of effective holy builds and how to use this new holy power stuff. Basically, help I’m lost with the new Holy tree.

    The Count Of Midget Fisto on
    In Low Orbit Over Budapest
  • SovSov Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Elitist Jerks' forums are a good basic go-to point for every talent spec, though the do occasionally get things wrong.

    Sov on
    EVE - "tehtyrael", member of Merch
    TF2 - Currently "Sugarloaf Mountain Massacre", usually "Lieutenant Sov"

    Per aspera ad astra
  • monkeylordmonkeylord Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Looking to get some insight as to when to use kings vs might. I usually run with kings but some groups lately have been asking for might instead. Are there some classes that benefit more from might than kings that I should be on the lookout for?

    monkeylord on
    PSN: Devymetal
    Starcraft 2: Dangerbomb (889)
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    monkeylord wrote: »
    Looking to get some insight as to when to use kings vs might. I usually run with kings but some groups lately have been asking for might instead. Are there some classes that benefit more from might than kings that I should be on the lookout for?

    My rule is: Kings all the time, unless you have a druid present. Mark of the Wild = Kings and will overwrite it, so you can't have them both up at the same time; in these cases everyone gets the benefits of both blessings.

    Elvenshae on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So I hit 84 last night and am beginning to do some instances with guildies. Unfortunately my weapon is laughably bad, and I am in dire need of an upgrade.

    Someone mentioned "Twihi" last night for a good two handed sword, but I have no idea what that means.

    Any suggestions?

    Wavechaser on
  • W2W2 Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    So I hit 84 last night and am beginning to do some instances with guildies. Unfortunately my weapon is laughably bad, and I am in dire need of an upgrade.

    Someone mentioned "Twihi" last night for a good two handed sword, but I have no idea what that means.

    Any suggestions?

    Twilight Highlands.

    W2 on
  • SovSov Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    So I hit 84 last night and am beginning to do some instances with guildies. Unfortunately my weapon is laughably bad, and I am in dire need of an upgrade.

    Someone mentioned "Twihi" last night for a good two handed sword, but I have no idea what that means.

    Any suggestions?

    Twilight Highlands is a great place to go at 84. There's a Ring of Blood style questline that will give you an ilvl 333 2h sword that'll replace anything you can get up to that point and you won't replace it till you're running heroics. If you're on a PvP server, though, expect the opposite faction to try and fuck with you during the encounters as they're not phased or anything.

    Sov on
    EVE - "tehtyrael", member of Merch
    TF2 - Currently "Sugarloaf Mountain Massacre", usually "Lieutenant Sov"

    Per aspera ad astra
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Sov wrote: »
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    So I hit 84 last night and am beginning to do some instances with guildies. Unfortunately my weapon is laughably bad, and I am in dire need of an upgrade.

    Someone mentioned "Twihi" last night for a good two handed sword, but I have no idea what that means.

    Any suggestions?

    Twilight Highlands is a great place to go at 84. There's a Ring of Blood style questline that will give you an ilvl 333 2h sword that'll replace anything you can get up to that point and you won't replace it till you're running heroics. If you're on a PvP server, though, expect the opposite faction to try and fuck with you during the encounters as they're not phased or anything.

    Awesome, I'll get on that tonight.

    Random off the wall question. When would a Paladin ever use Seal of Righteousness over Seal of Truth? I thought it was a tanking seal, but EJ is saying basically to always use truth.

    Wavechaser on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So is ret DPS actually bad now or is my guildmate just a bad player complaining because he can't play a DPS spec that is no longer a faceroll?
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Random off the wall question. When would a Paladin ever use Seal of Righteousness over Seal of Truth? I thought it was a tanking seal, but EJ is saying basically to always use truth.
    Well, Seal of Command turns SoR into a cleave seal, so SoR is likely a better choice for AoE or just any time you're going to be hitting more than one target. Also, if it's like the old days, SoT isn't really better damage until you get it stacked to 5, so SoR might be a better choice in PvP sometimes where you're not guaranteed a lot of consistent time on one target.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    forty wrote: »
    So is ret DPS actually bad now or is my guildmate just a bad player complaining because he can't play a DPS spec that is no longer a faceroll?

    I switched from mainspec ret to prot when I found I was doing 12k DPS in prot, and only 4k in ret on the same trash pack in Lost City of Tol'vir.

    I was doing 12k DPS at level 80 in ICC in ret. I'm doing 1/3rd that now, five levels higher.

    I'd agree with him. And ret hasn't been a faceroll in quite some time.

    Samphis on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I thnk the issue with Ret pallies is that we are so heavily dependent on haste, and the rating requirements scaling has kicked us in the balls really hard. I went from a 3.2 or so cooldown on Crusader Strike to 4.11 by leveling up to 83. Now it takes almost 12 seconds before I get my first Templar's Verdict in (barring HoL process, which also come slower thanks to much longer swing times - again, because my Haste is in the crapper).

    Elvenshae on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    forty wrote: »
    So is ret DPS actually bad now or is my guildmate just a bad player complaining because he can't play a DPS spec that is no longer a faceroll?
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Random off the wall question. When would a Paladin ever use Seal of Righteousness over Seal of Truth? I thought it was a tanking seal, but EJ is saying basically to always use truth.
    Well, Seal of Command turns SoR into a cleave seal, so SoR is likely a better choice for AoE or just any time you're going to be hitting more than one target. Also, if it's like the old days, SoT isn't really better damage until you get it stacked to 5, so SoR might be a better choice in PvP sometimes where you're not guaranteed a lot of consistent time on one target.

    I'm downloading meters tonight (wasn't bothering to use them while doing PvE) so I can't say for sure whether I'm pulling great DPS or anything. I can say that it feels like I'm doing a fuckton of damage, between my constant HoL and instant Exo Procs, I'll get some ridiculous streams of 13k+ hits one after the other.

    The down-side being that it is a bit bursty now because a lot of your potential comes from procs in combat, which with terrible luck, can really fuck up your output.

    I personally love the new ret. It's a nice change which adds a bit of chaos into your normal rotation. The old Ret... I had the same exact rotation, and it never changed. Now? I have to think on my feet, "Oh shit, HoL and instant Exo just procced at the same time, which do I use first!" You also now have to conserve Holy Power and divide it between abilities. Overall the class is a lot more fun to play in my opinion.

    I'll play with some meters tonight to see what kind of DPS i'm actually putting out.

    Wavechaser on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Samphis wrote: »
    I'd agree with him. And ret hasn't been a faceroll in quite some time.
    I don't consider "since 4.0" to be "quite some time," but whatever.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • SovSov Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Samphis wrote: »
    I'd agree with him. And ret hasn't been a faceroll in quite some time.
    I don't consider "since 4.0" to be "quite some time," but whatever.

    If you considered our FCFS system as "faceroll", I can't help but wonder what you think about 2-button classes like Mages or Rogues, or hilariously-tuned ones like DKs.

    EDIT: And yeah, Ret's numbers are tuned waaaaay too low right now, and far too reliant on CDs and RNG procs to stay "competitive" (that is, to do the same DPS that other classes are doing without popping CDs).

    Sov on
    EVE - "tehtyrael", member of Merch
    TF2 - Currently "Sugarloaf Mountain Massacre", usually "Lieutenant Sov"

    Per aspera ad astra
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ret really blows in AoE situations. Hell, during Trash I sometimes do only 5k damage. On single target we're not that bad. I can hit 11k if I don't have to move.

    The problems I see:

    -Divine Storm (according to EJ and my personal experience) isn't worth it until you're fighting more than 5 mobs.
    -SoR is a joke for AoE situations. Even if I'm fighting multiple mobs, SoT is a better choice most of the time.
    -We depend too much on our cooldowns. If you're not keeping AS and Vindication on cooldown, you're not gonna do competitive damage. That also means if you're unlucky and pop AS at the wrong time your dps is gonna suffer.
    -Inquisition is a pain in the ass to keep up. Well to me at least in my current gear level.

    I'm not sure if these issues go away with higher haste but on raid bosses I'm not so fond of the new ret. It is nice in 5 mans but when there's so much going during a fight it's hard to keep track of all these things.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Sov wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Samphis wrote: »
    I'd agree with him. And ret hasn't been a faceroll in quite some time.
    I don't consider "since 4.0" to be "quite some time," but whatever.

    If you considered our FCFS system as "faceroll", I can't help but wonder what you think about 2-button classes like Mages or Rogues, or hilariously-tuned ones like DKs.

    EDIT: And yeah, Ret's numbers are tuned waaaaay too low right now, and far too reliant on CDs and RNG procs to stay "competitive" (that is, to do the same DPS that other classes are doing without popping CDs).

    The thing about FCFS is that it didn't punish you if you screwed up. The new system punishes you too harshly if you mess up the rotation.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Sov wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Samphis wrote: »
    I'd agree with him. And ret hasn't been a faceroll in quite some time.
    I don't consider "since 4.0" to be "quite some time," but whatever.

    If you considered our FCFS system as "faceroll", I can't help but wonder what you think about 2-button classes like Mages or Rogues, or hilariously-tuned ones like DKs.
    I've posted on this very forum noting how retard easy WotLK Arcane was and how rogues were simple to play.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    -We depend too much on our cooldowns. If you're not keeping AS and Vindication on cooldown, you're not gonna do competitive damage. That also means if you're unlucky and pop AS at the wrong time your dps is gonna suffer.

    Sorry - vindication?

    Elvenshae on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Woops...I meant Zealotry.

    EDIT: And Avenging Wrath. :P

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I've found I do pretty good damage as ret. I've been towards the top of meters in all the heroics I've run (assuming the stupid healer actually heals :x), but I haven't had much of a chance to run in a raid yet.

    I've set up Power Auras to monitor Inquisition, Zealotry, Guardian, and AW right near my Holy Power bar (which I moved under my toon) and found it a lot easier to keep track of. When I'm back from my holiday vacation, I'll be able to see how I handle in a proper raid, finally. It definitely feels more hectic right now, but it makes it challenging! I'll probably need to modify my UI a bit more once raiding sets in, though.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    So, Avalanche or Hurricane for a ret Paladin?

    KafkaAU on
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  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I think EJ was saying the AP proc one was the best.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ya, Maelstrom crystal prices are insane ATM. Need to find a temporary enchant and can't find any info on it.

    KafkaAU on
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  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Which one was Avalanche? Hurricane is haste, right?

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    I'm actually running with Berserking. It has worked alright so far but I'm curious about this myself. I'd figure the haste one would be nice.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • skettiosskettios Enchanted ForestRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Are holy pallys caring about spirit much?

    I find myself oom if I'm not too careful so I've been looking into some spirit items (like the Mandala of Stirring Patterns). They worth the investment or should I be trying to get all the int in the world?

    I read EJ's post on us and they ranked spirit as the lowest attribute, which confuses me cause it does matter... right?

    skettios on
This discussion has been closed.