The devs have said repeatedly, from the beginning, that there are no female characters. They apologize for it frequently.
Really? They shouldn't have to...
Wasn't their reasoning behind the decision something like "We decided against female models to allocate that time and resources for the other parts of the game"?
A solid reason.
Basically yes.
IIRC that was the same reason that DICE gave recently for why their recent Battlefield games haven't had any female soldiers either.
I'll just go ahead and take that as a positive sign for us PC gamers.
Come on, there's got to be a top dev house out there somewhere that's willing to keep the faith!
You mean aside from Valve? :P
Anyway, this is the first time that Splash Damage are actually doing a multiplatform title themselves (IIRC the Quake Wars port was handled externally), so it might be understandable if they don't have as much familiarity with console hardware to get things running quite as smoothly. Well that and they've probably been showing off their games on beastly PC's anyway.
So in light of the Crysis 2 demo being a bit on the dissapointing side, and not really knowing whether the singleplayer's going to follow suit, I decided to have a look back and see if I could see what all the hype with Brink was about.
So basically I hit up Gametrailers and started watching the stuff they'd all put out. And you know, I think I'm beginning to understand.
I mean when I first saw the gameplay footage it didn't look all that remarkable, but now that I'm watching it a bit more, the smooth movement parkour thing looks pretty well done. Crysis 2 has this whole spiel about veritcality, and how can smoothly mantle up on things. And to be honest, that's one of the things I liked about the Crysis 2 demo, the way that it didn't feel like areas were off limits as such as long as they were above a certain height.
With Brink I'm seeing these guys not just mantling over things, but smoothly vaulting over railings, kick jumping off of walls to grab ledges, the whole Mirror's Edge thing, where Crysis 2 still felt kind of limited in that respect. It gave me just enough freedom that I would still get frustrated when I would jump at the edge of a staircase or an incline and simply not grab hold like I could elsewhere with flat surfaces.
The objective and class based system also looks pretty cool. Ultimately though it'll depend on how the shooting actually feels in conjunction with the motion. But it's really clear that they're putting a lot of thought and effort into everything they do. All the work going into getting a working movement system like that, the choice of art style, the fluid online / offline nature of the game, even the way the weapon sounds have been worked, it gets harder to imagine how they might mess up on those aspects (although I worry about sales and community given the kind of competition they're facing).
I did like one of the trailers where they were talking about the art style, and eventually after finally winning his corner for the character and art design style (bold, slightly exaggerated and cartoony designs for readability, more colour), the art director had this big piece of paper taped to the back of his monitor with a quote from Paul Wedgewood saying "Olivier was right all along!".
That was pretty funny.
EDIT: Also, from the gameplay footage I've seen, one thing I particularly like (assuming they stick with it) is that firing without aiming down sights isn't COMPLETELY FREAKING USELESS like it is in pretty much every other freaking Modern Freaking Call of the Battlefield of Freaking Honour game. Freaking. They're trying to strike a nice balance there instead, with sights for longer range firing.
Aiming down sights for everything ever isn't fun, it's supposed to be a tactical choice with some kind of MEANING behind it.
So any of you brink addicts know if it'll have A) a map editor and/or dual objective maps?
A) Due to the complexity and number of the objectives combined with the smart system, I am going to say probably not.
Each map has dual+ objectives. So many objectives that you have a radial dial from which you can choose the objective you want to focus on and that applies to your class.
No, Dual objective maps were a certain gametype in RTCW/W:ET where both sides were simultaneously trying to accomplish an objective while defending their own, as opposed to one side playing mostly defensive and the other attacking until a timer ran down, and then switching.
Spoit on
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Ah, then no. Its one attacker / one defender, basically.
hands down this is my most anticipated game for this year, and now knowing i'll get to try it out at pax east is putting me into pax hype mode waaaaaay earlier than i expected.
I NEED THIS GAME INSIDE ME
So who else has already decided which faction they're going to play?
I personally figure all the douchebags and idiots will pick the Resistance, because rebels are "cool" and who wants to play as The Man, so I'm going to play as Security. Partly because I think there will be more skilled and team-focused players on it, and partly because I think they'll be the underdogs in terms of numbers.
This isn't to say that everyone who picks resistance is a douchebag, not in the slightest. I just think you'd be a lot more likely to encounter them on resistance than security.
Raiden333 on
There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
0
TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
Isn't being W:ET enough? The customization is pretty neat too.
Spoit on
0
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
The only thing that is keeping me from this game is that it looks like players are going to be bullet-sponges. From videos and the no headshot thing I'm not sure if I want this anymore. Please don't count me off as "Herp Derp I only like Call of Duty because of fast kills" sort of guy. I don't want to spend too long shooting someone that it doesn't feel fun anymore. I'm getting a little annoyed at Halo for this.
Kadoken on
0
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Isn't being W:ET enough? The customization is pretty neat too.
It's like a more involved W:ET with hundreds (if not thousands) of gun and character customization options and likely the most innovative "weird" movement system we've seen to date that other games will almost certainly copy.
If that doesn't get you all hot and bothered, then nothing we can say will change your [tiny]very wrong[/tiny] opinion.
The only thing that is keeping me from this game is that it looks like players are going to be bullet-sponges. From videos and the no headshot thing I'm not sure if I want this anymore. Please don't count me off as "Herp Derp I only like Call of Duty because of fast kills" sort of guy. I don't want to spend too long shooting someone that it doesn't feel fun anymore. I'm getting a little annoyed at Halo for this.
It's likely that the damage model is there at least in part in service of the movement system. The value and utility of being able to jump all around the level would be very much hindered if one or two bullets were able to reliably drop a player. I'm sure there WILL be weapons in the game only take one or two bullets to kill, but they will likely be later unlocks or harder to use, and not some of the bullet hoses we've seen in the game so far.
The only thing that is keeping me from this game is that it looks like players are going to be bullet-sponges. From videos and the no headshot thing I'm not sure if I want this anymore. Please don't count me off as "Herp Derp I only like Call of Duty because of fast kills" sort of guy. I don't want to spend too long shooting someone that it doesn't feel fun anymore. I'm getting a little annoyed at Halo for this.
That kind of mechanic was in place in FPS's long before Halo.
Higher resilience in player characters is a design decision that basically cuts down on huge amounts of frustration.
More tactical shooters that are all about positioning and tactical advances should be about sudden lethality. Which is personally why I feel such lethality rarely works in a deathmatch style environment, ESPECIALLY in fast paced ones. It's why I feel BFBC2 has a much better feel than something like CoD. A tonne of former Modern Warfare players jumped in on BFBC2 multiplayer at the time and also started complaining and complaining that the weapons didn't kill fast enough. To them it was the weapons were "weak" and "useless" but the reality is that they were designed with a different style of gameplay in mind. Extreme lethality also leads to some weird balance issues in games when you come to weapons as lethal as shotguns, or grenade launchers.
But in a game that's more chaotic and fast paced, having sudden death from everywhere just feels frustrating, random and unpreventable. The reason that players can withstand more damage is that it gives them a chance to react to the situation. You can still kill people by getting the drop on them, but deaths don't feel cheap. In a fast paced game that's about free-flowing motion, I imagine that's doubly important.
Though to be fair, I remember a lot of BF2 people complaining about that very same health "issue" back during the so called 'open beta' for ET:QW. Also, if they made the regular body types go down after a nominal amount of damage, the light body types would be killed by a light wind
Edit: Also, maybe we should get a list in OP of who's going to get Brink on which platform? I really want to put some effort into Brink-ing for a long time (Not until the next new shiney game comes out), and I don't think that'll happen with randoms.
I'm going 360.
Skull2185 on
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
So who else has already decided which faction they're going to play?
I personally figure all the douchebags and idiots will pick the Resistance, because rebels are "cool" and who wants to play as The Man, so I'm going to play as Security. Partly because I think there will be more skilled and team-focused players on it, and partly because I think they'll be the underdogs in terms of numbers.
This isn't to say that everyone who picks resistance is a douchebag, not in the slightest. I just think you'd be a lot more likely to encounter them on resistance than security.
I will play both. I enjoy the sort scrapped-together armor made from junk thing the Resistance guys have, and also enjoy the look of Security.
The writer talks about the perks, which is new info.
A few enemies had me in their sights, but I scampered away as I had the Combat Intuition perk. This magic little device shows a dirty big yellow sign on the screen if you're in the cross-hairs and even gives you the direction it's coming from.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
He took me down and stood over my lifeless corpse mocking my demise. Big mistake. While I was waiting to spawn (or for a Medic) I ripped him a new one thanks to the beauty of a perk known as the Cortex Bomb. As the tiny shaped charge in what was left of my brainpan detonated I watched with grim satisfaction as both our bodies exploded. Payback's a *****, *****!
He was playing as a level 20 Operative when he used the Cortex Bomb.
The writer talks about the perks, which is new info.
A few enemies had me in their sights, but I scampered away as I had the Combat Intuition perk. This magic little device shows a dirty big yellow sign on the screen if you're in the cross-hairs and even gives you the direction it's coming from.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
He took me down and stood over my lifeless corpse mocking my demise. Big mistake. While I was waiting to spawn (or for a Medic) I ripped him a new one thanks to the beauty of a perk known as the Cortex Bomb. As the tiny shaped charge in what was left of my brainpan detonated I watched with grim satisfaction as both our bodies exploded. Payback's a *****, *****!
He was playing as a level 20 Operative when he used the Cortex Bomb.
Sporting a major Bonker right now! (Brink related Boner)
Skull2185 on
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
The writer talks about the perks, which is new info.
A few enemies had me in their sights, but I scampered away as I had the Combat Intuition perk. This magic little device shows a dirty big yellow sign on the screen if you're in the cross-hairs and even gives you the direction it's coming from.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
He took me down and stood over my lifeless corpse mocking my demise. Big mistake. While I was waiting to spawn (or for a Medic) I ripped him a new one thanks to the beauty of a perk known as the Cortex Bomb. As the tiny shaped charge in what was left of my brainpan detonated I watched with grim satisfaction as both our bodies exploded. Payback's a *****, *****!
He was playing as a level 20 Operative when he used the Cortex Bomb.
Sounds like someone there at Splash Damage has played Dystopia ;-)
And after playing Killzone 3 a bunch, I know now to make doubly sure those medics STAY dead. Sneaky buggers. All of those perks sound awesome though.
The writer talks about the perks, which is new info.
A few enemies had me in their sights, but I scampered away as I had the Combat Intuition perk. This magic little device shows a dirty big yellow sign on the screen if you're in the cross-hairs and even gives you the direction it's coming from.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
He took me down and stood over my lifeless corpse mocking my demise. Big mistake. While I was waiting to spawn (or for a Medic) I ripped him a new one thanks to the beauty of a perk known as the Cortex Bomb. As the tiny shaped charge in what was left of my brainpan detonated I watched with grim satisfaction as both our bodies exploded. Payback's a *****, *****!
He was playing as a level 20 Operative when he used the Cortex Bomb.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
Isn't this basically the second chance perk that literally everyone who plays Call of Duty bitches about, except worse
i was going to roll in security at first, but once i saw you can equip a hockey mask as resistance my decision was made
picture casey jones tearing ass across a battlefield, smashing people with a stick. hell yes.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
Isn't this basically the second chance perk that literally everyone who plays Call of Duty bitches about, except worse
Why would its inclusion be a good thing here :<
CoD's lethality made the second chance perk annoying. It was also the ONE perk that seemed to break the game rules.
If Brink has a ton of ridiculous perks (which it sounds like it will), Self Resurrect won't seem as gamebreaking.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
Isn't this basically the second chance perk that literally everyone who plays Call of Duty bitches about, except worse
Why would its inclusion be a good thing here :<
CoD's lethality made the second chance perk annoying. It was also the ONE perk that seemed to break the game rules.
If Brink has a ton of ridiculous perks (which it sounds like it will), Self Resurrect won't seem as gamebreaking.
Here's hoping they don't put any animation frame invulnerability in there. I hate when you kill someone and then have to wait for them to animate down before you can make sure they stay down.
I was constantly buffing health of teammates and reviving, dying and respawning until I unlocked a beauty of a perk exclusive to Medics called Self Resurrect.
After getting taking out, I played possum until the enemy forces thinned, hit the left thumbstick and was brought back to life, buffed my own health to give myself a larger pain threshold and made a break for the package.
Isn't this basically the second chance perk that literally everyone who plays Call of Duty bitches about, except worse
Why would its inclusion be a good thing here :<
CoD's lethality made the second chance perk annoying. It was also the ONE perk that seemed to break the game rules.
If Brink has a ton of ridiculous perks (which it sounds like it will), Self Resurrect won't seem as gamebreaking.
I dunno. A cranial explosive is fine, because the game's mechanics (from what I have observed) encourage you to be always hauling ass from one place to another. If you stick around for some baggin', well, you brought that on yourself. Emptying a bunch of bullets into an opponent, turning to go rushing away, and being brought down because he stood up, dusted himself off, and shredded you, which you had no reason to anticipate because hey he was dead doesn't sound fun
I guess you're right and it depends on the overall balance of the perks but that seems incredibly obnoxious at first blush
This cortex bomb thing is also a late unlock for a specific class, with a very short range. You can't shoot someone, you probably can't squirm around.
We don't know how death works in Brink yet, really. We know Medics can throw revival syringes at people as they lay on the floor. We don't know if you fall to floor dead once in a while, or if you fall to floor, mortally wounded all the time. How long does it take you to bleed out? There is a lot of stuff we don't know about Brink.
As far as I am aware, the way they've described it is that "down" is always a step before "dead". So double-tapping people to make sure they're actually definitely dead is a big thing.
Basically, the game is designed around everyone always having that "last chance" perk, but not being able to shoot. Medics can toss you a syringe, and you can choose when you want to pop back up. I guess medics can also just get that perk.
They did mention that in that state you're defenseless and on the ground, so you can just be murdered if you take too long to make your decision.
I suppose the idea is that you can either incapacitate a bunch of people and move on to your objective, with the knowledge that a Medic could pop them up pretty quick, or you spend the time to definitively kill them to make sure that doesn't happen.
Honestly, thinking about it in terms of Call of Duty seems counterintuitive. It's looking a lot more TF2 to me, in that balance has little to do with kill-trading.
Edit: Also, maybe we should get a list in OP of who's going to get Brink on which platform? I really want to put some effort into Brink-ing for a long time (Not until the next new shiney game comes out), and I don't think that'll happen with randoms.
I'm going 360.
S.M.A.R.T.W.A.N.G is still Public for any and all PC PA folks, though an OP list would be pretty nice.
Posts
Basically yes.
IIRC that was the same reason that DICE gave recently for why their recent Battlefield games haven't had any female soldiers either.
http://kotaku.com/#!5772776/a-new-look-at-brink
According to them the PS3 version didnt perform as smoothly or look as good as the PC version they played previously.
Come on, there's got to be a top dev house out there somewhere that's willing to keep the faith!
You mean aside from Valve? :P
Anyway, this is the first time that Splash Damage are actually doing a multiplatform title themselves (IIRC the Quake Wars port was handled externally), so it might be understandable if they don't have as much familiarity with console hardware to get things running quite as smoothly. Well that and they've probably been showing off their games on beastly PC's anyway.
I have a.... a... problem.
A.... Brink problem.
I think about it everyday. I read about it everyday. I lurk on the Splash Damage forums.
Oh... god... im so sorry. I didnt know i was addicted. It... it just.... feels so good.
*sobs*
Xbox Live / Steam
So basically I hit up Gametrailers and started watching the stuff they'd all put out. And you know, I think I'm beginning to understand.
I mean when I first saw the gameplay footage it didn't look all that remarkable, but now that I'm watching it a bit more, the smooth movement parkour thing looks pretty well done. Crysis 2 has this whole spiel about veritcality, and how can smoothly mantle up on things. And to be honest, that's one of the things I liked about the Crysis 2 demo, the way that it didn't feel like areas were off limits as such as long as they were above a certain height.
With Brink I'm seeing these guys not just mantling over things, but smoothly vaulting over railings, kick jumping off of walls to grab ledges, the whole Mirror's Edge thing, where Crysis 2 still felt kind of limited in that respect. It gave me just enough freedom that I would still get frustrated when I would jump at the edge of a staircase or an incline and simply not grab hold like I could elsewhere with flat surfaces.
The objective and class based system also looks pretty cool. Ultimately though it'll depend on how the shooting actually feels in conjunction with the motion. But it's really clear that they're putting a lot of thought and effort into everything they do. All the work going into getting a working movement system like that, the choice of art style, the fluid online / offline nature of the game, even the way the weapon sounds have been worked, it gets harder to imagine how they might mess up on those aspects (although I worry about sales and community given the kind of competition they're facing).
I did like one of the trailers where they were talking about the art style, and eventually after finally winning his corner for the character and art design style (bold, slightly exaggerated and cartoony designs for readability, more colour), the art director had this big piece of paper taped to the back of his monitor with a quote from Paul Wedgewood saying "Olivier was right all along!".
That was pretty funny.
EDIT: Also, from the gameplay footage I've seen, one thing I particularly like (assuming they stick with it) is that firing without aiming down sights isn't COMPLETELY FREAKING USELESS like it is in pretty much every other freaking Modern Freaking Call of the Battlefield of Freaking Honour game. Freaking. They're trying to strike a nice balance there instead, with sights for longer range firing.
Aiming down sights for everything ever isn't fun, it's supposed to be a tactical choice with some kind of MEANING behind it.
A) Due to the complexity and number of the objectives combined with the smart system, I am going to say probably not.
Xbox Live / Steam
Xbox Live / Steam
I NEED THIS GAME INSIDE ME
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
I personally figure all the douchebags and idiots will pick the Resistance, because rebels are "cool" and who wants to play as The Man, so I'm going to play as Security. Partly because I think there will be more skilled and team-focused players on it, and partly because I think they'll be the underdogs in terms of numbers.
This isn't to say that everyone who picks resistance is a douchebag, not in the slightest. I just think you'd be a lot more likely to encounter them on resistance than security.
So what you're saying is, you're on the...
...brink.
I don't think there will ever be cool parkour mono e mono fights.
Show me the light.
It's like a more involved W:ET with hundreds (if not thousands) of gun and character customization options and likely the most innovative "weird" movement system we've seen to date that other games will almost certainly copy.
If that doesn't get you all hot and bothered, then nothing we can say will change your [tiny]very wrong[/tiny] opinion.
It's likely that the damage model is there at least in part in service of the movement system. The value and utility of being able to jump all around the level would be very much hindered if one or two bullets were able to reliably drop a player. I'm sure there WILL be weapons in the game only take one or two bullets to kill, but they will likely be later unlocks or harder to use, and not some of the bullet hoses we've seen in the game so far.
That kind of mechanic was in place in FPS's long before Halo.
Higher resilience in player characters is a design decision that basically cuts down on huge amounts of frustration.
More tactical shooters that are all about positioning and tactical advances should be about sudden lethality. Which is personally why I feel such lethality rarely works in a deathmatch style environment, ESPECIALLY in fast paced ones. It's why I feel BFBC2 has a much better feel than something like CoD. A tonne of former Modern Warfare players jumped in on BFBC2 multiplayer at the time and also started complaining and complaining that the weapons didn't kill fast enough. To them it was the weapons were "weak" and "useless" but the reality is that they were designed with a different style of gameplay in mind. Extreme lethality also leads to some weird balance issues in games when you come to weapons as lethal as shotguns, or grenade launchers.
But in a game that's more chaotic and fast paced, having sudden death from everywhere just feels frustrating, random and unpreventable. The reason that players can withstand more damage is that it gives them a chance to react to the situation. You can still kill people by getting the drop on them, but deaths don't feel cheap. In a fast paced game that's about free-flowing motion, I imagine that's doubly important.
8-)
YEAHHHHHHHHHHH
Edit: Also, maybe we should get a list in OP of who's going to get Brink on which platform? I really want to put some effort into Brink-ing for a long time (Not until the next new shiney game comes out), and I don't think that'll happen with randoms.
I'm going 360.
I will play both. I enjoy the sort scrapped-together armor made from junk thing the Resistance guys have, and also enjoy the look of Security.
part 2
The writer talks about the perks, which is new info.
He was playing as a level 20 Operative when he used the Cortex Bomb.
Sporting a major Bonker right now! (Brink related Boner)
Sounds like someone there at Splash Damage has played Dystopia ;-)
And after playing Killzone 3 a bunch, I know now to make doubly sure those medics STAY dead. Sneaky buggers. All of those perks sound awesome though.
Those are three very awesome perks.
Xbox Live / Steam
Why would its inclusion be a good thing here :<
steam | xbox live: IGNORANT HARLOT | psn: MadRoll | nintendo network: spinach
3ds: 1504-5717-8252
picture casey jones tearing ass across a battlefield, smashing people with a stick. hell yes.
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
CoD's lethality made the second chance perk annoying. It was also the ONE perk that seemed to break the game rules.
If Brink has a ton of ridiculous perks (which it sounds like it will), Self Resurrect won't seem as gamebreaking.
Xbox Live / Steam
Here's hoping they don't put any animation frame invulnerability in there. I hate when you kill someone and then have to wait for them to animate down before you can make sure they stay down.
I guess you're right and it depends on the overall balance of the perks but that seems incredibly obnoxious at first blush
steam | xbox live: IGNORANT HARLOT | psn: MadRoll | nintendo network: spinach
3ds: 1504-5717-8252
We don't know how death works in Brink yet, really. We know Medics can throw revival syringes at people as they lay on the floor. We don't know if you fall to floor dead once in a while, or if you fall to floor, mortally wounded all the time. How long does it take you to bleed out? There is a lot of stuff we don't know about Brink.
Basically, the game is designed around everyone always having that "last chance" perk, but not being able to shoot. Medics can toss you a syringe, and you can choose when you want to pop back up. I guess medics can also just get that perk.
They did mention that in that state you're defenseless and on the ground, so you can just be murdered if you take too long to make your decision.
I suppose the idea is that you can either incapacitate a bunch of people and move on to your objective, with the knowledge that a Medic could pop them up pretty quick, or you spend the time to definitively kill them to make sure that doesn't happen.
Honestly, thinking about it in terms of Call of Duty seems counterintuitive. It's looking a lot more TF2 to me, in that balance has little to do with kill-trading.
That's awesome. So awesome.
**
S.M.A.R.T.W.A.N.G is still Public for any and all PC PA folks, though an OP list would be pretty nice.