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A few sketches

nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
edited April 2010 in Artist's Corner
I have uploaded some better looking drawings since my original post. Enjoy, critique or ignore.

UPDATE: I have started my classes as of this past Saturday. I appreciate all your help, did wind up getting drawing on the right side of the brain, and am in 2 figure drawing classes. Even over the last 2 weeks I have seen noticable improvement in my proportions etc. TY For all the advice.

This is a second go, digitally, on the Abara pic
abara23.jpg

Abara Black Gauna
abara.png


SPARTANS!!!
panel1r.jpg

Biomega
biomegacrap.jpg



Doodle Fixed
stalkeruy.jpg

nanthil on
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Posts

  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    i think you need to secure your skills in pencil before worrying about a tablet. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the best advice you can get.

    NakedZergling on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I did expect as much. I am not so mature of an artist, but I have reached a point where I cannot learn any more on my own. The purchase of the tablet is for the art program I am entering at the Colorado Art Institute, where I hope to hone my skills, both on paper and digitally. (I needed the pad for a required class.) I appreciate the input, but I also want to stress that my pencil skills are not so terrible as you might think. When I am able I will upload my most recent project.

    I do appreciate the feedback. :)

    nanthil on
  • chewiechewie Registered User
    edited April 2010
    i think you need to secure your skills in pencil before worrying about a tablet. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the best advice you can get.

    seconded.

    chewie on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    chewie wrote: »
    i think you need to secure your skills in pencil before worrying about a tablet. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the best advice you can get.

    seconded.

    I have to take issue with one point of this statement; I am not of the opinion that artistic skills should be advanced individually. It is true that I am not as experienced as most that I've seen on this forum, however what today has shown me about the tablet is that if I had waited until such a point where I am proficient at pencil on paper, I would have to start from the ground on a tablet at that point and would need to also for software.

    nanthil on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Once you're great at drawing on paper, everything else will come a LOT easier. Its not bad to mess with, but it can end up being a crutch. Just like a kid who wants to draw so he "learns" by drawing DBZ anatomy. It can VERY damaging to the learning process to have to UNlearn that to learn the "Correct" way. And anyone saying there's no "Correct" want to learn human anatomy for art is an idiot or a liar.

    You'll see it suggested everywhere, and i will do the same. Read "drawing on the right side of the brain" by betty edwards, and draw FROM LIFE every day.

    NakedZergling on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    You'll see it suggested everywhere, and i will do the same. Read "drawing on the right side of the brain" by betty edwards, and draw FROM LIFE every day.

    I am on amazon, ordering it now. Thank you for the advice.

    nanthil on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    dude, it's great, and its an easy read. You'll be surprised how much it helps.

    NakedZergling on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Actually, the local hobby store has a copy of this book. Looks like I'll have to stop there in the morning so that I don't have to order it! :)

    In reguards to wooden supports, crutches are a dime a dozen. The number one reason I am taking this course at CAI is a direct result of exactly what you said before. I had no prefessional instruction, so I just drew what I liked. I drew DBZ in my time, Naruto more recently, but drawing from life has never really been a priority. I can toon like no tomorrow, and I can caricature someone reasonably well, but when it comes to practical skills, I have none.

    Thanks again for the advice, and I look forward to reading this.

    ADDENDUM:
    The reviews on Amazon tout this book as the greatest thing since sliced muffin pancakes.

    nanthil on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    You'll see it suggested everywhere, and i will do the same. Read "drawing on the right side of the brain" by betty edwards, and draw FROM LIFE every day.

    Bad, NZ, BAD!

    How many threads do I have to traipse in behind you with the reminder that Betty "Ironsides" Edwards' book is mostly a waste of time?

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    why do you say that?

    NakedZergling on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Because her book is chock full of pseudo science instead of any real lesson plans, and the best of the best results produced by her book are mediocre at best. No one goes on to becoming a phenomenal artist using her techniques, but people who were bad at art become marginally better and write excited reviews touting the books amazing capabilities.

    Here's a good review of the book, and the second time this week I've posted it.

    If you want a good book off of amazon I'd personally recommend this one. But hell, even before spending any money you should consume the Loomis figure books available to you.

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    You'll see it suggested everywhere, and i will do the same. Read "drawing on the right side of the brain" by betty edwards, and draw FROM LIFE every day.

    Bad, NZ, BAD!

    How many threads do I have to traipse in behind you with the reminder that Betty "Ironsides" Edwards' book is mostly a waste of time?

    I don't know. 14 pages of 5 star reviews could be, but mostly like is not, wrong.

    nanthil on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    the book's great if all you want to do is get really good at drawing what you see

    Tam on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    nanthil wrote: »
    You'll see it suggested everywhere, and i will do the same. Read "drawing on the right side of the brain" by betty edwards, and draw FROM LIFE every day.

    Bad, NZ, BAD!

    How many threads do I have to traipse in behind you with the reminder that Betty "Ironsides" Edwards' book is mostly a waste of time?

    I don't know. 14 pages of 5 star reviews could be, but mostly like is not, wrong.

    Read the review Mars linked in the second post on the topic.

    Remember, just because people think something is good does not mean said thing is good.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    oh god

    one of those amazon reviews says, and I paraphrase, that it'll make you as good as any professional artist

    horseshit

    Tam on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That is not the point. Instead look at the quantity of intelligent and well thought out 3-4 paragraph reviews. For every 10 idoits foaming at the mouth, there is one sane individual that the book really did work for.

    I read the review you're referring to. I'm not naive enough to believe that it will only take 6 months to learn what people spend their whole lives trying to master, but if it helps me learn Im willing to try it.

    nanthil on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I never said it wouldn't help

    I said, the help it will lend you is limited

    Tam on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited April 2010
    Well, I'm not going to say the book is bad, just be aware of what it is.

    What it is is a rundown of what Betty Edwards runs in her weeklong/weekend seminars, which are designed to take folks that are all, "aw I'll never be able to draw fer real yo I got flipper hands", and boot them out with some drawings that are still pretty bad in the grand scheme of things, but are a substantial improvement over what they were able to do to begin with. This is accomplished by throwing a bunch of classic drawing exercises at you and dressing it up with OMG (psuedo)SCIENCE! to make it seem like a big revolution- "sit down and do some exercises" is way less exciting than "I'm going to EXPAND your MIND in ways you NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE HOLY SHIT", and for a lot of people that's the only way they're going to get through them to start out with, because let's face it, if you don't know what you're doing, staring at a piece of paper for hours on end can be a pretty boring affair.

    The thing is, yeah, after a week, you'll see an improvement- most people do, that's why it's such a popular book amongst the general public. But after you've gone through the weekend-week's worth of exercises the first time, you're left with nowhere to go- for many people this is where they stop making progress, because they decide to take the book as a Bible, rather than what it should be taken as, a very brief and cursory crash course introduction to drawing. It won't teach you construction, it won't teach you composition, it won't teach you perspective, it won't teach you technique, it won't teach you different media, it won't teach you light and shade, it won't teach you stylization,it won't teach you design, it won't teach you anatomy, etc. etc. etc. All things that, to be a well-rounded professional-level artist, one must learn- and no one book I've ever seen covers all of these things, or even most of these things, in advanced detail- much less one you can read over a weekend.

    What the book will teach you, basically, is a basic level of breaking down what you see into shapes that you can draw, rather than thinking "eye" or "house" and drawing a preconceived symbol for what you think says "eye" or "house". An essential skill, no doubt, but without going on to be informed on why that shape is what it is, why that tone is what it is, through all those skills the book does not cover in any meaningful detail, you'll wind up stuck with only a rudimentary level of understanding and therefore drawing skill.

    This is why the book gets such a backlash from people at more advanced levels, because it dupes a lot of people into thinking they know all they need to know, and get them all excited- but then leave them stuck in a rut almost instantly, and without them even knowing why, because they don't know what they're missing or even that they're missing anything.

    I'm not going to say you shouldn't read it, like it's going to melt your face off Raiders of the Lost Ark style the instant you open its pages, but I would say that you should be aware that it's not the be-all end all of drawing books in spite of the amazon reviews, and you'll probably get just as much out of it by checking it out of a library rather than buying it. After going through it, digging in with a book like the Loomis books or The Natural Way to Draw (though I have to admit my affection for the latter has waned a bit over the years, but a lot of animators still swear by it), or The Practice and Science of Drawing (if you're a real masochist), or hell, even How to Draw the Marvel Way (don't laugh, it's material on construction and perspective are brief, but solid) will make sure you don't get stuck in that fatal rut, and you can continue to make progress.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    etc. etc. etc.
    -Ancient Siamese Proverb



    Yo dawg. Slow your roll, cuz its too fast for me. As they say, a fast roll gathers no peat. . .
    No wait. Thats not right.

    I am still going to be attending the colorado art institute during the next quarter. I don't hail this thing as God breathed, or as some inspired divination. The only thing I'm conserned with at this juncture is learning. If it accomplishes that goal, than I might as well look into it.

    I will also look into those other books you recommended. Any book you can swear by should be worth a read.

    nanthil on
  • mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Those reviews seem to reinforce Mars' point; people who are completely unused to art find it helpful for getting decent results. Not anywhere near worth the money, though, judging from the 'before and after' shots in the previous link. Download the Loomis books for free from this here thread before you go buying into that gimmicky rubbish, man, you're already off to a decent start.

    mensch-o-matic on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I looked through that book in Borders and considering how short it is, it was very expensive $60.

    I had a long post, but decided to chopit and just say
    Draw on paper with a pencil!
    Seriously, i used to do shit loads of digital work, and it wasnt until people said "DRAW WITH A BLOODY PENCIL" that i actually started to improve. Drawing traditionally helps to work with your mistakes, see your mistakes and take your time because theres only so much erasing you can do on a sheet of paper. You'll improve faster without having to worry about all the different variables like opacity levels, layers, brush size, brush type, canvas size, layer/brush types etc. etc.
    keep your learning simple. get a pad and draw. I do a lot of drawing while watching Jay Leno (which could explain my habbit of drawing large chins:))

    Keep at it Nanthil amd in a few months, you'll be laughing at your first post.

    winter_combat_knight on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    the book itself is not that great, i'll admit
    though the workbook... just buy that
    because if you're really new at drawing, doing the observational exercises in the workbook will definitely not hurt or hinder your progress so long as you understand exactly what it is you're getting from it
    some technical drawing skills used for doing purely observational drawing

    which is where i believe people should be starting
    so as a starting point, i definitely recommend the workbook
    the actual text is...eh, it's what it is.

    beavotron on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    $60???!? It was $12 when i bought it.

    I figured this was a good book to get you started because it focuses you a lot on how to "see".
    It also really helped my friend. Now i feel like i've given you bad advice. I enjoyed it, and took some things away from it, but i guess general consensus is not too. Oh well.

    NakedZergling on
  • chewiechewie Registered User
    edited April 2010
    nanthil wrote: »
    chewie wrote: »
    i think you need to secure your skills in pencil before worrying about a tablet. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the best advice you can get.

    seconded.

    I have to take issue with one point of this statement; I am not of the opinion that artistic skills should be advanced individually. It is true that I am not as experienced as most that I've seen on this forum, however what today has shown me about the tablet is that if I had waited until such a point where I am proficient at pencil on paper, I would have to start from the ground on a tablet at that point and would need to also for software.

    That is part of the point, actually. While trying to double up learning two things at a time seems like a good idea, it usually ends up hurting more than helping. The thing about pencil and paper is that they are very very simple. you really dont have to learn how to use them. So you can focus on training your brain on how to translate what you perceive without then having to translate that again into how to use a tablet/software.

    There is also other issues. Drawing with a tablet is not a one to one experience, meaning you are 'drawing' on a different surface then where the image is displayed. This is presents a bunch of challenges that may skew how you learn. Also, you cant turn your drawing space in order to draw natural arcs. You are also bound to your computer, so portability is an issue. Even if you dont start messing around with color and brush styles, these things will impede your progress on training your brain.

    Now if you had something like an iPad with a tablet surface like a cintiq, many of these problems would be solved.

    chewie on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Just a crappy thing I was doing today for fun in Paint chat.
    biomegacrap.jpg

    nanthil on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Also, here's proof that my pencil drawing isn't as awful as that other stuff.
    abara.png

    http://www.larazon.es/UserFiles/10231/Image/Abara_2.jpg
    Original By Tsutomu Nihei

    nanthil on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That's awfully busy. It's hard to make out what's happening, or what that is.

    MKR on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Your pencil drawing is much more confident.
    Are you using the same process for your pencil work as you are digital? perhaps you're rushing your digital work.

    winter_combat_knight on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The visual separation is whats confusing me. Its hard not being able to rotate the tablet, like chewy said. Also, the image is busy. But Tsutomu Nihei is my favorite artist of all time. I love his art, and the plots to his series'. (90% of it has never been released in English, so some of the translations are way off.)

    nanthil on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The reference is fairly easy to read, so there's something happening in the translation.

    MKR on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    You need to go dark black with the reference. The simplicy of his complex design seems to come from its black and white scheme.

    That said, I love your taste in artists- Blame! was a favorite of mine not too many years back.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Blame! was epic, to say the least. I found Abara not long ago, and ordered it from japan. That is what the pencil drawing is from.

    nanthil on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Abara was a one shot he did right? I seem to remember that one making next to no sense... but slightly more than biohazard, the one with the badass bear and the chase scene where he rides bitch on a motorcycle lol. Both are amazingly awesome though :)

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Abara was not a one shot, it was a short series. It was released in two books in japanese. The story is about an ancient war between "spirits" (cybernetic spirits, because its Tsutomu Nihei) that brings about the apocolypse, and only 2 people are saved. (The whole cyclical universe thing that he's so fond of.) You can find his one shots and full series here. I hate to encourage downloading this, but as I said before, most of his works have never been translated or published in the US. I recommend the following:

    ABARA
    BIOMEGA (great series about a time before a time) Read BLAME! before reading this one
    BLAME!
    Blame2 (one shot)
    Breaking Quarantine (Halo one shot. BEAUTIFUL watercolor work)
    Noise
    SNIKT! (Wolverine one shot Marvel did a long time ago)

    If nothing else, read BLAME! and BIOMEGA. Two of my most favorite works of fiction, of all time. And great art to boot.

    nanthil on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    The reference is fairly easy to read, so there's something happening in the translation.

    Whats happening in the translation is the medium (ink). The way Tsutomu Nihei works is by only working with highlights. Every thing that is NOT black is a lighted area, and everything that is black is a shadow, or a shadow of a shadow. The end result is that I can't tell where the anatomy is sometimes when looking at the reference, so it winds up being a mess of black. Instead of highlighting areas of interest on a sketch(as in the original), I was reduced to DRAWING the highlights, if that makes sense.

    nanthil on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Overhauled the picture. I liked the Irish dude, but the rest of the picture didn't work. It isn't good, but its better.
    stalkeruy.jpg

    Nappuccino, I do know this, see the top of the page for a reference to the fact that I know this, but I never liked the cluttered look of various images on a thread, so I link, but I guess its too much work to click those 'round hur.

    nanthil on
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    you can embed the image by putting image tags around a direct link.

    [*img] link here [*/img] (remove the asterisk)

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    nanthil wrote: »

    Nappuccino, I do know this, see the top of the page for a reference to the fact that I know this, but I never liked the cluttered look of various images on a thread, so I link, but I guess its too much work to click those 'round hur.

    If you don't like the rule, take it up with a mod.

    MKR on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    nanthil wrote: »

    Nappuccino, I do know this, see the top of the page for a reference to the fact that I know this, but I never liked the cluttered look of various images on a thread, so I link, but I guess its too much work to click those 'round hur.

    If you don't like the rule, take it up with a mod.
    7 ) No Site-Whoring
    Site-whoring, plugging, or advertising of your personal Website, product, or Webcomic any kind will not be tolerated. You can include a link to your site/gallery in your sig, but do not start a new thread simply directing people to your site.

    This, I am not doing. Also, the rules thread asks new users to Lurk, and in the process noticed many others posting links, rather than posting the image on the thread. I am not looking for an argument. I was simply stating that I understand how.

    nanthil on
  • nanthilnanthil Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    panel1r.jpg

    Something

    nanthil on
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