Return of the Dark: Attempted Redemption Edition [Updates on Pg 7 & 8]

245

Posts

  • Agent ColemanAgent Coleman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The 4th panel in the Dragon Age one throws me off. 1-3 were this group of guys talking, then 4th panel is some random character. If I had played the game I'd get it I assume.

    I'm not sure if you've done this, but try to do some character sketches for your characters. It should help you make them deeper than just the "Ridiculous guy and the Straight guy"

    Neithers really a straight-man, just ones slightly more responsible than the psychotic one.


    You might get it if youve played it, shes essentially a horrible, slimy, gross, dripping tentacle monster and she has her minions spying on your troup throughout the game. Maybe if I added a Meanwhile or something. I just thought it was funny the big, horrible, 8 breasted creature being grossed out by the elf and dwarf getting it on.

    The guy with the beard is reading as the straight man. You can't say he's not the straight guy just because he's not super straight. It's more of a comparison between the two.

    It's not a bad relationship, several cartoons use it. (Penny Arcade, Simpsons, South Park, Least I Could Do, etc) You just have to expand your characters from more than 1 dimension.

    Agent Coleman on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    The 4th panel in the Dragon Age one throws me off. 1-3 were this group of guys talking, then 4th panel is some random character. If I had played the game I'd get it I assume.

    I'm not sure if you've done this, but try to do some character sketches for your characters. It should help you make them deeper than just the "Ridiculous guy and the Straight guy"

    Neithers really a straight-man, just ones slightly more responsible than the psychotic one.


    You might get it if youve played it, shes essentially a horrible, slimy, gross, dripping tentacle monster and she has her minions spying on your troup throughout the game. Maybe if I added a Meanwhile or something. I just thought it was funny the big, horrible, 8 breasted creature being grossed out by the elf and dwarf getting it on.

    The guy with the beard is reading as the straight man. You can't say he's not the straight guy just because he's not super straight. It's more of a comparison between the two.

    It's not a bad relationship, several cartoons use it. (Penny Arcade, Simpsons, South Park, Least I Could Do, etc) You just have to expand your characters from more than 1 dimension.

    Give me more than 5 comics :P

    DarkWarrior on
  • Agent ColemanAgent Coleman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    30 Rock
    It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
    Ctrl+Alt+Del
    How I Met Your Mother
    Antics
    Big Bang Theory
    Arrested Development
    Family Guy
    American Dad


    Off the top of my head.

    Agent Coleman on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Perfect Strangers.

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Whats that a list of?

    EDIT: Besides TV shows.

    DarkWarrior on
  • FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I know these guys are horrible dicks, but they really are trying to help.

    I'd just like to throw in that, yes, this is true. There is a lot of valuable advice in this thread, and we're not here to discourage you; just make sure you listen to what people are saying.

    Flay on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    How about something like this?

    comicframes4panelproto3.png

    Rough btw, I know its overcropped

    DarkWarrior on
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Eh...That's honestly a little too much work to read, and there's not a hell of a lot going on there.

    Talking heads comics don't really do anything for me.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dude, if you can't take the time to put your dialog into word bubbles so they don't just lazily overlap all your lineart then do you really think anyone is going to read your comics?

    earthwormadam on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    DarkWarrior, I think your trouble with humor is that most of it is so damned derivative.

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Whats that a list of?

    EDIT: Besides TV shows.

    A list of comedies with a straight man and a crazy man as the source of comedy.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Darkwarrior, honestly, take a break from comics for a bit.

    Doodle some drawings, study a bit, learn color, and most importantly (possibly), read a wide variety of comics, both strips and books, whether they're comical or focused on storytelling. The two do not need to be mutually exclusive.

    Write, too. Write some short stories about whatever. Give it a year. The internet isn't going anywhere.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    DarkWarrior, I think your trouble with humor is that most of it is so damned derivative.

    Why you gotta make me hit you Mars?
    Dude, if you can't take the time to put your dialog into word bubbles so they don't just lazily overlap all your lineart then do you really think anyone is going to read your comics?

    Its not an actual comic, I was just trying something different.
    Eh...That's honestly a little too much work to read, and there's not a hell of a lot going on there.

    Talking heads comics don't really do anything for me.

    Fair enough, I was going for Kotick treating his employees like battered spouse where he blames them for how he treats them, but was struggling with how to word it, I too felt the middle panel in particular was too heavy.
    Darkwarrior, honestly, take a break from comics for a bit.

    Doodle some drawings, study a bit, learn color, and most importantly (possibly), read a wide variety of comics, both strips and books, whether they're comical or focused on storytelling. The two do not need to be mutually exclusive.

    Write, too. Write some short stories about whatever. Give it a year. The internet isn't going anywhere.

    Theres something wrong with the colour now to?

    DarkWarrior on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    DarkWarrior, I think your trouble with humor is that most of it is so damned derivative.

    Why you gotta make me hit you Mars?

    This sort of humor was losing its potency the more my High School days waned. :?

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JLM-AWPJLM-AWP Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dark, I have a feeling that you are looking for approval and defending what you have done moreso than accepting feedback and trying to apply it to your comics...or art...or whatever. We aren't all against you, but it's definitely no coicidence that we all feel the same way about them. The talking head comic is just another direct bite off of Penny-Arcade. The problem here is, even if you were doing things completely originally, and without PA influence (which you are going to convince NOBODY here of, btw...you're on their forum right now for God's sake), this genre has just been done to death.

    It's time to regroup and think about what you want to say to your audience. I don't mean what is popular or what you know is successful. I'm asking what you want us to walk away from your work thinking about that isn't already out there. 2 guys being witty with videogame references sprinkled in...it's worse than cliche at this point. I'm not a great critic in terms of art, but I CAN tell you that the fact that you've had to explain ANY of these comics to us in order to get them is sign that you aren't thinking things out enough. Stop rushing though things. Pay attention to your timing and your layout. Sometimes non-text aspects can be the difference between a chuckle and the dreaded "back" button. Ask yourself if people who haven't played a particular game can still get your comic, and can they understand what is happening with what you've decided to show them.

    JLM-AWP on
  • earthwormadamearthwormadam ancient crust Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    No, we're all wrong, none of these are actual comics, they're something completely different beyond our realms of understanding!

    earthwormadam on
  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    DarkWarrior, I think your trouble with humor is that most of it is so damned derivative.

    Why you gotta make me hit you Mars?

    This sort of humor was losing its potency the more my High School days waned. :?

    c'mmon, man, that was actually kinda funny

    Metalbourne on
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Dude, if you can't take the time to put your dialog into word bubbles so they don't just lazily overlap all your lineart then do you really think anyone is going to read your comics?

    Its not an actual comic, I was just trying something different.

    You were trying to be different by doing something inherently worse?
    That's like designing a car without wheels and telling the public "It's not an actual car, I was just trying something different."

    Mustang on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    The "Why you gotta make me hit you" punchline is about as stale as "Git R Done" or "That's what she said."

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MustangMustang Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That's what she said.

    Mustang on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Rectum?
    Nearly killed'm!

    Ok, that last one still makes me giggle.

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Rectum?
    Nearly killed'm!

    Ok, that last one still makes me giggle.

    I am the only man that knows the joke that punchline goes to.

    Metalbourne on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Quite possibly! But I'm in the mood for some elucidation...

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JLM-AWPJLM-AWP Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    No, we're all wrong, none of these are actual comics, they're something completely different beyond our realms of understanding!

    These must be those shape-shifting dealies. It's a comic until it's not...or something.

    JLM-AWP on
  • Nineteen HundredNineteen Hundred Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Maybe it's only a comic when you're looking at it?

    Nineteen Hundred on
    There was something important here. It's gone now.
  • JLM-AWPJLM-AWP Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Maybe it's only a comic when you're looking at it?

    Maybe you need to stare at it for a while. It's not just a comic, but also a sailboat.

    JLM-AWP on
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Theres something wrong with the colour now to?

    No. I'm just saying learn color.

    See that's the thing about art. It doesn't matter how much you know. There's more to learn.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Quite possibly! But I'm in the mood for some elucidation...

    Johnny comes into class late one morning, and the teacher says, "Johnny, you'd better have a good explanation"

    "Yeah I do. I was up real late taking my dad to the hospital"
    "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that "
    "Yeah but its kinda funny, he got kicked in the asshole by a horse!"
    "You mean rectum"
    "Rectum? It damn near killed 'em!"

    Metalbourne on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sometimes I believe in predestination or fate.

    and I wonder, "why do bad things happen?"

    ...this thread being one of them. Now I know the rectum joke.- and I'm positive that's why this thread existed.

    Lock this bitch up, we are done!

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • Boston House PartyBoston House Party Registered User regular
    edited April 2010

    What is it about still life drawings and such that you mention? How will they enhance my ability with cartoon style stuff? I know its my own stuff but I felt that the poses and such were quite clear in what i was trying to get the characters to convey. I mean I can go more freeform but I don't know how to because I like how my two main characters look, more so the spiky hair guy over brown-hair guy. Not sure how much I could change him while retaining him.

    Basically, cartooning is breaking the rules of drawing, which is fine, and can lead to some fantastic art, but to break the rules you have to know what those rules are. You have to be able to draw a half decent realistic face before you can make a really funny cartoon face, because when you know how a certain expression actually looks, you can exaggerate it just enough in the right ways to make it hilarious. The same goes for poses and anatomy. Plus, learning to draw realistically just straight up makes you better at drawing, your lines will look nicer, your shapes will be smoother and more graceful and you'll be able to compose a panel better and do a lot more interesting stuff with your art.

    Basically every good cartoonist (or anime artist) is also a good realistic artist, even famous abstract artists like Jackson Pollock or Picasso were fantastic realistic artists, because they had to know the rules in order to be good at breaking them.

    Boston House Party on
  • Boston House PartyBoston House Party Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Also if you're looking for a great resource that'll teach you a lot of fantastic fundamentals about drawing in general, I recommend drawing on the right side of the brain.

    Boston House Party on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Also if you're looking for a great resource that'll teach you a lot of fantastic fundamentals about drawing in general, I recommend drawing on the right side of the brain.

    How can I accurately portray my nervous eye tick over the internet?

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NappuccinoNappuccino Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Also if you're looking for a great resource that'll teach you a lot of fantastic fundamentals about drawing in general, I recommend drawing on the right side of the brain.

    How can I accurately portray my nervous eye tick over the internet?

    Well, he did just say "fundamentals" not: 'This books will fix all your problems, make you better than the best artists ever; Rembrant? fuck him you'll draw him out of his grave, and give you a blowjob at the same time' like some others would claim.

    Though, a blowjob does sound nice....

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Boston House PartyBoston House Party Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Also if you're looking for a great resource that'll teach you a lot of fantastic fundamentals about drawing in general, I recommend drawing on the right side of the brain.

    How can I accurately portray my nervous eye tick over the internet?
    You don't like it? I found it amazingly helpful when I first started learning how to draw, and it's recommended by a lot of artists and people that teach art.

    Boston House Party on
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It...has its uses.

    I guess.

    It actually set me back by a good bit. But then, I guess that was mostly my fault.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    That sucks, I like this style.
    It's good that you have a goal. But understand that a personalised style is in fact a goal, not "just the way I draw".

    You need to understand the fundamental principles of art to be able to draw anything well -- be it photorealism or a simplified cartoon. The reason you're stuggling with drawing anything other than this is because you've taught yourself to draw by emulating a style you admire, rather than learning those fundamental principles. It's akin to wondering why you can't invent delicious dishes when the only cooking you've ever done is make an omelette according to a recipe you found in a magazine once.

    If you don't want people calling your comic a PA clone (and let's be honest, here -- whether you intended it or not, your style really looks a lot like Krahulik's), then you need to start from scratch and learn the basics. You seem like you have some real talent, and it would be a shame to waste it by limiting yourself.


    Yeah I'll be honest, I didn't find them funny. They seemed more like a chore to read and the comedic timing was pretty ruddy.

    Not even the Dragon Age one? I know its based on a game but I'd think its understandable by people who haven't. The Morrigan-bag just makes me laugh.

    Are there any which you think could be improved by a slight change in dialogue or something? Im just curious what it is that is missing.
    The Dragon Age one is not understandable by people who haven't played the game. Consider for a moment: someone who hasn't played the game has likely never come across the six-breasted demon character before. So that final panel comes out of nowhere. I have no idea what that thing is, much less her personality or her connection to the men in the previous panels. Further, it's confusing that her panel is the true punchline, because the third panel functions as a punchline in itself. Unless it's a reference to something in the game and is relevant to the demon's reaction, the paper bag doesn't deserve the focus of an entire panel.

    The joke could be improved by omitting the third panel and replacing it with a throw-away comment in the second: "Ugh, again? Fine. But no kissing.", and by making the six-breasted demon's context a bit clearer. This could be accomplished by showing her committing a deplorable act while she delivers her line, thus highlighting her hilarious hypocricy. Also good would be clarifying her speech: "They did what?! With each other? Oh that is just sick." The "euuugghh!" you have at the moment isn't obviously a cry of disgust; it might be interpreted as a cry of frustration or rage.

    Lieberkuhn on
    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I have no idea what is happening at the end of the Dragon Age comic

    MagicToaster on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    That sucks, I like this style.
    It's good that you have a goal. But understand that a personalised style is in fact a goal, not "just the way I draw".

    You need to understand the fundamental principles of art to be able to draw anything well -- be it photorealism or a simplified cartoon. The reason you're stuggling with drawing anything other than this is because you've taught yourself to draw by emulating a style you admire, rather than learning those fundamental principles. It's akin to wondering why you can't invent delicious dishes when the only cooking you've ever done is make an omelette according to a recipe you found in a magazine once.

    If you don't want people calling your comic a PA clone (and let's be honest, here -- whether you intended it or not, your style really looks a lot like Krahulik's), then you need to start from scratch and learn the basics. You seem like you have some real talent, and it would be a shame to waste it by limiting yourself.


    Yeah I'll be honest, I didn't find them funny. They seemed more like a chore to read and the comedic timing was pretty ruddy.

    Not even the Dragon Age one? I know its based on a game but I'd think its understandable by people who haven't. The Morrigan-bag just makes me laugh.

    Are there any which you think could be improved by a slight change in dialogue or something? Im just curious what it is that is missing.
    The Dragon Age one is not understandable by people who haven't played the game. Consider for a moment: someone who hasn't played the game has likely never come across the six-breasted demon character before. So that final panel comes out of nowhere. I have no idea what that thing is, much less her personality or her connection to the men in the previous panels. Further, it's confusing that her panel is the true punchline, because the third panel functions as a punchline in itself. Unless it's a reference to something in the game and is relevant to the demon's reaction, the paper bag doesn't deserve the focus of an entire panel.

    The joke could be improved by omitting the third panel and replacing it with a throw-away comment in the second: "Ugh, again? Fine. But no kissing.", and by making the six-breasted demon's context a bit clearer. This could be accomplished by showing her committing a deplorable act while she delivers her line, thus highlighting her hilarious hypocricy. Also good would be clarifying her speech: "They did what?! With each other? Oh that is just sick." The "euuugghh!" you have at the moment isn't obviously a cry of disgust; it might be interpreted as a cry of frustration or rage.

    These are comments I can work with. Fair enough I may be limited by what I know, at the moment its impossible for me to imagine other ways to stylise the art without it just flat out being a different character. What Im going to do is reduce it to a 3-panel setup since this seems to be a recurring comment and it means less for me to draw increasing my turnaround for a start.

    Then Im gonnna go practice some stuff but what I posted on the last page was a bunch of variations of one of the primary characters faces so Im not quite clear on how much I can change it.

    I used to read the "How to draw the Marvel way" a lot a few years ago so I do use shapes for heads/torsos, doesn't work as well for spaghetti-string arms.

    DarkWarrior on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Lieberkuhn wrote: »
    The Dragon Age one is not understandable by people who haven't played the game. Consider for a moment: someone who hasn't played the game has likely never come across the six-breasted demon character before. So that final panel comes out of nowhere. I have no idea what that thing is, much less her personality or her connection to the men in the previous panels.

    To be fair to the OP, i dont understand half the jokes that are written for the Penny Arcade comics. Should i go around criticising Penny Arcade just because i never play video games?
    Criticising the art and writing is fine, but i dont think its fair to criticise a comic just because it only appeals to a small select group of people.

    Overall, if it didnt look too much like PA comics, id say these are pretty cool (in regards to art and composition).
    push your designs more and experiment.

    winter_combat_knight on
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