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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 25 & 26

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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    'm not willing to cheese out and vote Loki to spite Spectre-X or because I think Despero is too powerful.

    We left out contestants who are powerful on a cosmic level like Despero for a reason.
    When I say he's overpowered, I mean he's boring... not that he's unbeatable.

    Despero can still be beaten, so I'm not sure I'd call him cosmic. You can punch him out, if you had somebody tough enough (Doomsday, for example, probably could), or you can shut his brain down with a telepath strong enough. He's not immune to magic, so somebody like Spiral could give him a good run for his money. I think Loki could legitimately beat him through trickery, so I don't have a problem with people voting Loki for that reason.

    But if he's too powerful, the solution was to not have him in the competition in the first place. It's not to BS your way through a vote and nullify him after the fact.

    And voting just to piss Spectre-X off is weak.

    Well I do think that Loki has enough magic power and tricks up his sleeve to take Despero down.
    Doomsday was left out of the tournament for the very same reason as I stated above, and I think that being able to mentally enslave an entire planet like Despero apparently can puts you into the cosmic level of power.

    Plus it's just more fun to tell spex your voting against him because then he usually puts his mad face on and throws a hissy fit.

    Marathon on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    jeepguy wrote:
    Loki can definately outsmart Despero and trick him. If MM can trick him, then Loki can do it easily.

    And Spectre, the whole "you bring up trickster god like it means something" comment is the most specious reasoning you've ever brought to one of these threads, and that is really fucking saying something.

    Because, you keep bringing up Desperos mental powers like they mean something.

    See what I did there?

    I see you did something wrong. Despero's mental powers aren't limited to just mind control, you know. He can read minds, too. Probably Loki's as well because Despero is a more powerful telepath than the Martian Manhunter, and he makes forced mental contact with a variety of species far more alien than the Asgardians. Or ice giants or Martians or whatever.

    And among his mental powers is the ability to shoot mind bullets. Mind bullets that can hurt Superman. And the last time I checked, Superman was many times more durable and many times stronger than the average Asgardian male. Because Loki is only about that strong and durable.

    If Despero is even given the smallest opening, Loki is going to die, horribly. Of an exploded head or from having his guts torn out and force-fed to him.

    Loki's schemes work best when there is more than one opponent to trick. He manipulates people and pits them against each other. This takes place on Mars. He can only try to confuse Despero, which isn't too good a tactic because Despero is a super-genius and tactician who has been out conquering entire worlds for the better part of his very, very long life.

    And the Martian Manhunter didn't so much trick Despero as he, using a bullshit deus ex machina ability, invaded Despero's mind and projected an entirely different reality into his brain.

    And oh! Look! Loki has no such ability.

    The best Loki can do is try to not get killed in ways too gruesome to describe, because there is very little that he can actually do to Despero in order to incapacitate him.


    How is Loki going to beat Despero. This is an important question. You keep going on about how Despero will lose and Loki is going to win, but how is he going to win?

    Certainly not in a fight.

    Is he going to impale him on the world tree like Munkus said? I don't think so, because for that to work Loki would have to lift the thing first in order to throw it. And in terms of superstrength, Loki is a fucking weakling. Really. Colossus is stronger, and the Thing is stronger, Namor, Hercules, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Superman, Thor, Sasquatch, the Joe Fixit Hulk, the Juggernaut, Iron Man...

    Do you want me to go on?

    Loki is completely out of his element here. There are no people to toy with, there is just one very smart, very angry, very powerful and very, very brutal enemy who can kill people by looking at them.

    And I'm pretty sure that Despero, being a super-genius telepath knows about the Norse trickster god and his reputation, so he knows what to look out for.


    So tell me. How is Loki supposed to defeat Despero?


    T Marathon: yeah but you have a gay face.

    Spectre-x on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    T Marathon: yeah but you have a gay face.

    It's like my last post lit the Spectre Signal.

    Loki is going to beat Despero using a mix of trickery and magical attacks. Both are things Loki is excellent at and can use to their utmost.

    P.S. Chicks totally dig guys with gay faces, ask my wife.

    Marathon on
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    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    Doomsday was left out of the tournament for the very same reason as I stated above,
    Doomsday was in the tournament though. He lost in the first round to Mandarin.

    NinjaSquirrel on
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    Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    jeepguy wrote:
    Loki can definately outsmart Despero and trick him. If MM can trick him, then Loki can do it easily.

    And Spectre, the whole "you bring up trickster god like it means something" comment is the most specious reasoning you've ever brought to one of these threads, and that is really fucking saying something.

    Because, you keep bringing up Desperos mental powers like they mean something.

    See what I did there?

    I see you did something wrong. Despero's mental powers aren't limited to just mind control, you know. He can read minds, too. Probably Loki's as well because Despero is a more powerful telepath than the Martian Manhunter, and he makes forced mental contact with a variety of species far more alien than the Asgardians. Or ice giants or Martians or whatever.

    And among his mental powers is the ability to shoot mind bullets. Mind bullets that can hurt Superman. And the last time I checked, Superman was many times more durable and many times stronger than the average Asgardian male. Because Loki is only about that strong and durable.

    If Despero is even given the smallest opening, Loki is going to die, horribly. Of an exploded head or from having his guts torn out and force-fed to him.

    Loki's schemes work best when there is more than one opponent to trick. He manipulates people and pits them against each other. This takes place on Mars. He can only try to confuse Despero, which isn't too good a tactic because Despero is a super-genius and tactician who has been out conquering entire worlds for the better part of his very, very long life.

    And the Martian Manhunter didn't so much trick Despero as he, using a bullshit deus ex machina ability, invaded Despero's mind and projected an entirely different reality into his brain.

    And oh! Look! Loki has no such ability.

    The best Loki can do is try to not get killed in ways too gruesome to describe, because there is very little that he can actually do to Despero in order to incapacitate him.


    How is Loki going to beat Despero. This is an important question. You keep going on about how Despero will lose and Loki is going to win, but how is he going to win?

    Certainly not in a fight.

    Is he going to impale him on the world tree like Munkus said? I don't think so, because for that to work Loki would have to lift the thing first in order to throw it. And in terms of superstrength, Loki is a fucking weakling. Really. Colossus is stronger, and the Thing is stronger, Namor, Hercules, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Superman, Thor, Sasquatch, the Joe Fixit Hulk, the Juggernaut, Iron Man...

    Do you want me to go on?

    Loki is completely out of his element here. There are no people to toy with, there is just one very smart, very angry, very powerful and very, very brutal enemy who can kill people by looking at them.

    And I'm pretty sure that Despero, being a super-genius telepath knows about the Norse trickster god and his reputation, so he knows what to look out for.


    So tell me. How is Loki supposed to defeat Despero?


    T Marathon: yeah but you have a gay face.


    You missed my point. I wasn't upset because you think Despero is stronger, I was upset because your actual reasoning in a particular post was very poor. You have the tendancy to pick a winner and then utterly discount the abilities of the "non-winner" that you've picked, regardless of how powerful they are.

    Even in the TM -Bullseye match, which most people here felt was the closest one so far, it was a no-contest blowout for you, because everything always is.

    Regina Fong on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Nuh-uh!

    Spectre-x on
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    delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    if despero's so strong,
    why didnt he kill any members of the justice league?

    delphinus on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Marathon wrote:
    Doomsday was left out of the tournament for the very same reason as I stated above,
    Doomsday was in the tournament though. He lost in the first round to Mandarin.

    Listen, when im being dumb it's your job to not point that out and support me anyway.

    My mistake, forgot that he went out early.

    Marathon on
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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    delphinus wrote:
    if despero's so strong,
    why didnt he kill any members of the justice league?

    Because he's a villian.

    And the heroes always win.

    Bloods End on
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    MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    This is a real close match, but there won't truly be a fight. It is within Loki's power to win this if he is patient, serious and methodical. Loki is none of these things, his personality will hamstring him. If he's not careful Despero will need only a single, millisecond window to obliterate him.

    For more, see my post on the voting thread.

    Majidah on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The post you made in the vote thread started well, but you lost me when you suggested that Loki would deliberately lose. I can see arrogance getting in the way of victory, but I don't think he would take a dive here, since there is nothing to gain by it.

    Edit for wording.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    So if Despero is so powerful that he can't be defeated unless lazy writers "beef up" an exsisting character to beat him via trickery... wtf yo?
    Same way someone got through the hero tourney when he was invincible and could cut anyone in half.

    The Muffin Man on
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    MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I didn't mean to imply that Loki would deliberately lose, only that he would fight the battle in such a way it would please himself, though not nessecarily please doom. Loki would essentially deliver Despero a victory so pyrric that Despero would feel like he lost.

    Majidah on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    When has Loki ever acted like that?

    robosagogo on
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    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    When has Loki ever acted like that?
    When has he ever fought remaining entirely incoporeal and only slinging magic as his offense?

    NinjaSquirrel on
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    When has Loki ever acted like that?
    When has he ever fought remaining entirely incoporeal and only slinging magic as his offense?
    That's not exactly what was described, with Loki essentially neutering his offense simply to humiliate his enemy even though doing so would greatly increase his odds of losing.

    Or did you think my comment was referring to something other than the statement directly above itself?

    robosagogo on
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    MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Doesn't that pretty much sum up his fights with Thor? If Loki doesn't have well-laid plans he pretty much just goes with the hitty-bashy stompin-boy style rampage. I'd always heard that explained as: "he wants to beat Thor at his own game." You don't often see him sitting on buildings throwing concussive blasts while incorporeal though technically these things are within his power.

    Majidah on
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    NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    robosagogo wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    When has Loki ever acted like that?
    When has he ever fought remaining entirely incoporeal and only slinging magic as his offense?
    That's not exactly what was described, with Loki essentially neutering his offense simply to humiliate his enemy even though doing so would greatly increase his odds of losing.

    Or did you think my comment was referring to something other than the statement directly above itself?
    When hasn't Loki deliberately gone with a weaker offense to try to beat his enemies? In most of the stories I've read you see him meleeing when from what you guys are saying his best bet would be to stay incorporeal and fling magics.

    NinjaSquirrel on
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