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Video game industry thread: done here, blathering continues in new thread

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Posts

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    I feel like a horrible person for hoping that there never ends up being a FF15.

    Your dream will never come true. I think FFXIII has already sold more than the PS2 games in the USA.

    buh? Its the worst selling entry in Japan in nearly 20 years.

    In the US, 12 is more than double and 10 is triple.

    1.3 million sold for FFXIII. FFXII sold 1.7 million in the US. Only numbers I could find on FFX said 2.46m sold in the USA. I remember seeing the first month sales somewhere and FFXIII's first month sales were about the same as the previous ones.

    Couscous on
  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    To be honest, I was kinda hoping FFXIII would drop off. It means it'll drop in selling price much faster. :P

    Brainiac 8 on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    I feel like a horrible person for hoping that there never ends up being a FF15.

    Your dream will never come true. I think FFXIII has already sold more than the PS2 games in the USA.

    buh? Its the worst selling entry in Japan in nearly 20 years.

    In the US, 12 is more than double and 10 is triple.

    1.3 million sold for FFXIII. FFXII sold 1.7 million in the US. Only numbers I could find on FFX said 2.46m sold in the USA. I remember seeing the first month sales somewhere and FFXIII's first month sales were about the same as the previous ones.

    Given how low this month's sales were, I doubt it'll ever manage to catch up with 12.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Games Dealer Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    woops. I was only counting ps3 just now.

    Dr Mario Kart on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    I feel like a horrible person for hoping that there never ends up being a FF15.

    Your dream will never come true. I think FFXIII has already sold more than the PS2 games in the USA.

    buh? Its the worst selling entry in Japan in nearly 20 years.

    In the US, 12 is more than double and 10 is triple.

    1.3 million sold for FFXIII. FFXII sold 1.7 million in the US. Only numbers I could find on FFX said 2.46m sold in the USA. I remember seeing the first month sales somewhere and FFXIII's first month sales were about the same as the previous ones.

    Given how low this month's sales were, I doubt it'll ever manage to catch up with 12.
    The Greatest Hits version or whatever the hell it will be called by Square Enix plus the holidays should boost sales a decent amount.

    Couscous on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    I feel like a horrible person for hoping that there never ends up being a FF15.

    Your dream will never come true. I think FFXIII has already sold more than the PS2 games in the USA.

    buh? Its the worst selling entry in Japan in nearly 20 years.

    In the US, 12 is more than double and 10 is triple.

    1.3 million sold for FFXIII. FFXII sold 1.7 million in the US. Only numbers I could find on FFX said 2.46m sold in the USA. I remember seeing the first month sales somewhere and FFXIII's first month sales were about the same as the previous ones.

    Given how low this month's sales were, I doubt it'll ever manage to catch up with 12.
    The Greatest Hits version or whatever the hell it will be called by Square Enix plus the holidays should boost sales a decent amount.

    I was actually wondering how it compared in the first month to FFXII. Because--and this shocked me--the hate really came onto FFXII shortly after release, at least in my area. I don't know why, I didn't play the game, but people who were very excited about it and very happy initially became extremely ticked off.

    I don't know if FFXIII is going to reproduce that, but it's a possibility. I'm fairly certain that we held FFXIII to higher standards (at least that's the impression I got) and that will not help it.

    Synthesis on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Found it.
    Thanks in large part to its multi-platform launch on Xbox 360 and PS3, Final Fantasy 13 is the best launch for any item in the franchise. The next closest was Final Fantasy XII, a PS2 exclusive, which launched and sold 896K units in Nov '06. FFXIII sales in its introduction month were 48 percent greater than that of FFXII .

    Couscous on
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    Found it.
    Thanks in large part to its multi-platform launch on Xbox 360 and PS3, Final Fantasy 13 is the best launch for any item in the franchise. The next closest was Final Fantasy XII, a PS2 exclusive, which launched and sold 896K units in Nov '06. FFXIII sales in its introduction month were 48 percent greater than that of FFXII .

    That which burns twice as bright burns half as long is an appropriate phrase for FFXIII when it comes to sales.

    Cade on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Found it.
    Thanks in large part to its multi-platform launch on Xbox 360 and PS3, Final Fantasy 13 is the best launch for any item in the franchise. The next closest was Final Fantasy XII, a PS2 exclusive, which launched and sold 896K units in Nov '06. FFXIII sales in its introduction month were 48 percent greater than that of FFXII .

    That which burns twice as bright burns half as long is an appropriate phrase for FFXIII when it comes to sales.

    I don't think it works out to twice as bright is equal to half as long burn time.

    I wouldn't be surprised if FF games are becoming much more frontloaded. The series and many other Square JRPGs in general have been front loaded for a while. This generation has been fairly frontloaded in general. Compare San Andreas to GTAIV.

    Couscous on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think 13's managed to get at least twice as much hate as 12 did.

    cloudeagle on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think 13's managed to get at least twice as much hate as 12 did.

    Final Fantasy is practically the definition of a broken fanbase.

    I wonder how FF is doing with the target demographic of stupid teenagers (redundant, I know).

    Couscous on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    12 got a ton of hate.

    8 is the leader, then 12, then 13, then 2.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    12 got a ton of hate.

    If it's not VII or a remake or a direct sequel, then it gets hate.

    That about covers it.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    12 got a ton of hate.

    If it's not VII or a remake or a direct sequel, then it gets hate.

    That about covers it.

    I thought a lot of people hated the VII spinoffs/sequels/prequels and FX-2? Every FF game has a ton of hate.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase

    Couscous on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Not really.

    I, III, IV-VII, IX, X don't really get that much hate. Oh sure, there are always some people out there that will give you shit. You could make a case for IX hate but I'd say that time and distance has given victory to the do not hate side.

    Trust me, I'm an expert on hating things.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, it's been a looooong time since I've heard anyone bitch about 9. Man, that was a fun one.

    cloudeagle on
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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It's too bad so many hated on FFVIII, as it was my favorite post SNES FF besied IX, which was also awesome.

    Squall and Rinoa for life, yo! :P

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  • Radikal_DreamerRadikal_Dreamer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I think you'd be half crazy to think that a FFXV would never happen. Even if XIII slightly bombed or all the way bombed I would think they'd just adjust the budget a bit and put out XV. The brand is still worth a lot.

    One reason I think it dropped out of the top 20 is because it's really not a favorite for reviewers. RPGs in general aren't "reviewer's games." They tend to, overall, not get reviewed so much. So on podcasts and news things I hear all sorts of talk about how great this year was and them naming off games not a single one usually named FFXIII. It sold enough though that it should be mentioned, it's just forgotten by those types. And I still think it failed to get enough hype going for it. Square Enix really doesn't know how to work the press over here like American based companies.

    Radikal_Dreamer on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Old brands never die; they just fade away.

    Couscous on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    12 got a ton of hate.

    If it's not VII or a remake or a direct sequel, then it gets hate.

    That about covers it.

    I thought a lot of people hated the VII spinoffs/sequels/prequels and FX-2? Every FF game has a ton of hate.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase

    All the spin-offs of Final Fantasy VII get more than there share of hate. And I can't say I disagree.

    Synthesis on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Series has pretty much gone down hill since VI. Increasingly bizarre story lines, increasingly awful character design.

    Sheep on
  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    Kastanj on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Series has pretty much gone down hill since VI. Increasingly bizarre story lines, increasingly awful character design.

    I have to disagree, but that probably has to do with the fact that I dislike the character designs in V and VI.

    Don't get me wrong, VI is still excellent. But the designs are weak. With the exception of Kefka (who isn't as remarkable as he was when I first saw him), it was too "generic medieval fantasy". Seen it dozens of times.

    VI also had a very bizarre story line, in my opinion, but still a good one.

    EDIT: Except for the monsters. Some of the random monsters in VI had very creative designs. Some of them...meh, like the main cast.

    Synthesis on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    cloudeagle on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    I don't like guessing about a project's budget, but I doubt it was so expensive they haven't already started making money off of it.

    Couscous on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And it's not as though they're going to stop selling it after a certain point soon either.

    Synthesis on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    That really depends.

    How much of the budge for FF XIII was spent on engine development, which can then be leveraged over several games? And, therefore, how much of the cost burden of that engine development should be allocated to FF XIII?

    Your answers here have marked impact on whether and when FF XIII starts to "make money."

    Elvenshae on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    That really depends.

    How much of the budge for FF XIII was spent on engine development, which can then be leveraged over several games? And, therefore, how much of the cost burden of that engine development should be allocated to FF XIII?

    Your answers here have marked impact on whether and when FF XIII starts to "make money."

    That's really last gen thinking. Art assets are more expensive than engines these days.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    FFXIV, the new MMO, is also coming out before too long, isn't it? Presumably that'll rake in enough money to keep the franchise afloat until FFXV rolls around.

    Not to mention the side games for FFXIII that are coming out.

    I wonder if FFXV is already in development. I doubt, when it comes out, it'll be on the current generation of consoles. If it is, it'll be on the very tail end of them, like FFXII was.

    Duffel on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    I don't like guessing about a project's budget, but I doubt it was so expensive they haven't already started making money off of it.

    Which is something Square recognizes.

    They came out well before Activision and proudly stated that they'll whore out and reuse old assets as much as possible.

    Then they announced the FFVII compilations, GBA remakes, etc.

    Sheep on
  • BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    I don't like guessing about a project's budget, but I doubt it was so expensive they haven't already started making money off of it.

    Which is something Square recognizes.

    They came out well before Activision and proudly stated that they'll whore out and reuse old assets as much as possible.

    Then they announced the FFVII compilations, GBA remakes, etc.

    Huh, they didn't mean they were going to use the same engine for another game?

    Maybe square should read some books about depreciating their IPs. The Enix side seems to understand why Spin-offs have to be both good and respectable.

    Beck on
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    That really depends.

    How much of the budge for FF XIII was spent on engine development, which can then be leveraged over several games? And, therefore, how much of the cost burden of that engine development should be allocated to FF XIII?

    Your answers here have marked impact on whether and when FF XIII starts to "make money."

    That's really last gen thinking. Art assets are more expensive than engines these days.

    Except, of course, that SE was talking about how much work they put into developing this engine so that they could use it to build other games. Ergo, it's extremely relevant to the discussion of, "What was FFXIII's budget and when does it make money?"

    And, besides, that's a really silly goose thing for you to say. Obviously, art assets are part of the budget. But if you're spreading, say, $10M of engine development over 1 game, or over 5 games, it has an impact on when you break even on a game.

    Elvenshae on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Beck wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    I don't like guessing about a project's budget, but I doubt it was so expensive they haven't already started making money off of it.

    Which is something Square recognizes.

    They came out well before Activision and proudly stated that they'll whore out and reuse old assets as much as possible.

    Then they announced the FFVII compilations, GBA remakes, etc.

    Huh, they didn't mean they were going to use the same engine for another game?

    Maybe square should read some books about depreciating their IPs. The Enix side seems to understand why Spin-offs have to be both good and respectable.

    This was well before the PS3 and the 360. I'm sure that whatever the White Engine was/is now they are definitely going to be using it. Only games that use it so far are the two FFXIII games. Wiki says FFXIV uses it but provides no citation.

    Sheep on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    That really depends.

    How much of the budge for FF XIII was spent on engine development, which can then be leveraged over several games? And, therefore, how much of the cost burden of that engine development should be allocated to FF XIII?

    Your answers here have marked impact on whether and when FF XIII starts to "make money."

    That's really last gen thinking. Art assets are more expensive than engines these days.

    Except, of course, that SE was talking about how much work they put into developing this engine so that they could use it to build other games. Ergo, it's extremely relevant to the discussion of, "What was FFXIII's budget and when does it make money?"

    And, besides, that's a really silly goose thing for you to say. Obviously, art assets are part of the budget. But if you're spreading, say, $10M of engine development over 1 game, or over 5 games, it has an impact on when you break even on a game.

    He never implied that SE wasn't planning on using it in other games. He did say that it doesn't matter, which is true. The engine is an extremely small part of the cost of making an HD game, especially a Final Fantasy.

    What does it matter if SE says they want to use the engine again? I guess that means that they only need to sell 6 million copies to break even instead of 7?

    UncleSporky on
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  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    The engine is an extremely small part of the cost of making an HD game, especially a Final Fantasy.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that.

    They're a large enough burden that companies are now deciding to license game engines and middleware instead of spending the development time making sure the engine works how they want it to.

    The White Engine/Crystal Tools began development around the time that FFXII was released. We're just now seeing games that make use of it.

    Sheep on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    The engine is an extremely small part of the cost of making an HD game, especially a Final Fantasy.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that.

    They're a large enough burden that companies are now deciding to license game engines and middleware instead of spending the development time making sure the engine works how they want it to.

    The White Engine/Crystal Tools began development around the time that FFXII was released. We're just now seeing games that make use of it.

    :^:

    Also:
    What does it matter if SE says they want to use the engine again? I guess that means that they only need to sell 6 million copies to break even instead of 7?

    You do realize that reducing your required sales total to break even by 14% would be a pretty big fuckin' deal, right?

    Elvenshae on
  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Building a state of the art multiplatform game engine from scratch is not a cheap thing. I don't know how big of a part of the FF13 expense the White Engine/Crystal Tools accounts for, but it's definitely not an extremely small part. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 15-30% of the total expense.

    RainbowDespair on
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    What does it matter if SE says they want to use the engine again? I guess that means that they only need to sell 6 million copies to break even instead of 7?

    You do realize that reducing your required sales total to break even by 14% would be a pretty big fuckin' deal, right?

    Yeah. I don't get that.

    Any chance to decrease costs by the millions is one they'll take.

    Sheep on
  • BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Beck wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Kastanj wrote: »
    How much would FF XIII have to sell to make up for the titanic budget anyway?

    I'm guessing at least more than it's sold already. All those pre-rendered cutscenes are expensive.

    I don't like guessing about a project's budget, but I doubt it was so expensive they haven't already started making money off of it.

    Which is something Square recognizes.

    They came out well before Activision and proudly stated that they'll whore out and reuse old assets as much as possible.

    Then they announced the FFVII compilations, GBA remakes, etc.

    Huh, they didn't mean they were going to use the same engine for another game?

    Maybe square should read some books about depreciating their IPs. The Enix side seems to understand why Spin-offs have to be both good and respectable.

    This was well before the PS3 and the 360. I'm sure that whatever the White Engine was/is now they are definitely going to be using it. Only games that use it so far are the two FFXIII games. Wiki says FFXIV uses it but provides no citation.

    It seems kind of weird that square would be referring to their IPs and not the engine but, considering how art-less they've become I wouldn't be surprised.
    How awful.

    But yeah, using the engine for FFXIV sounds kind of flaky. I would imagine they're going to need something designed with the PC in mind if they want to create a real community, unless they're gutting the whole thing and using it more as a frame-work than anything else.
    Sheep wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    What does it matter if SE says they want to use the engine again? I guess that means that they only need to sell 6 million copies to break even instead of 7?

    You do realize that reducing your required sales total to break even by 14% would be a pretty big fuckin' deal, right?

    Yeah. I don't get that.

    Any chance to decrease costs by the millions is one they'll take.

    Also, it allows for more time on the game, and less time on the engine. It's amazing how much time and assets are dedicated to creating a new engine and tools, which is why we see Capcom (smartly!) using the same engine for a few games, and other developers licensing Unreal.

    It also allows for more risks, requiring less sales to break even can sometimes translate to more developer control over IPs and games, which is always welcome.

    Beck on
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The thing is, the savings in costs do not appear until work begins in earnest on the next game to use that engine. Or until that engine is licensed for use to other developers. Whether it costs $5 or $5billion, that money is on the books now. Nobody is arguing that it can't be a benefit later.

    Santa Claustrophobia on
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