Well, I'm not a developer but I'd bet that engine reuse and/or licensing is more about controlling risk than about controlling costs. Of course, Too Human managed to run into trouble even after going with Unreal.
In any case, even in previous generations reusing engines didn't make later games cost less to develop than those that came out in the beginning. Put it this way, SE didn't make FF13 an extremely linear game because the engine couldn't handle anything else and it didn't take long for them to port to the 360.
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The engine is an extremely small part of the cost of making an HD game, especially a Final Fantasy.
I wouldn't necessarily say that.
They're a large enough burden that companies are now deciding to license game engines and middleware instead of spending the development time making sure the engine works how they want it to.
The White Engine/Crystal Tools began development around the time that FFXII was released. We're just now seeing games that make use of it.
Companies are now licensing other companies engines? More companies now are making their own than they did in the past.
Also dear Christ in heaven what I wouldn't give to shop at Nintendo's employee store
We need to get someone who works at Nintendo to start posting here. That way I can ask them to see if they can get me a copy of the classic Hanafuda cards to go along with my Club Nintendo set..
I'm also extremely curious if the employee store is just a standard World Store but with prices like 75% off or something.. Or if they have really cool stuff like "Don't hate me because Mario is my boss" t-shirts. :P
The thing is, the savings in costs do not appear until work begins in earnest on the next game to use that engine. Or until that engine is licensed for use to other developers. Whether it costs $5 or $5billion, that money is on the books now. Nobody is arguing that it can't be a benefit later.
Sure. But we're talking about internal cost allocations as part of determining a project's budget and, therefore, its required sales goals.
This is a really fuzzy area even within well-functioning companies, but it's important. If SE (or, hell, anyone) develops something with the idea of using it for other things down the line, most of the time they allocate a part of the development budget to those other things - they'll be reaping part of the benefits, ergo they should pay part of the cost.
Thus, it affects the company's internal view on when Project X breaks even (and, therefore, how likely the company is to do something like Project X again in the future). It also spills over into the performance of Project Y - if they don't have to cover any of the costs of the engine's development, then, internally, it'll make Project Y look more successful than it otherwise would have been, which is unlikely to sit well with the team that developed Project X.
At the end of the day, yes, SE has spent $Texas on developing their engine - they can split it up however they want, but it still totals up to $Texas. But whether the FFXIII dev team is responsible for covering all of that cost or only, say, $Idaho, is also an important matter.
Yeah, it's been a looooong time since I've heard anyone bitch about 9. Man, that was a fun one.
So, so, so boring. I wanted to like it so much, too. If it wins out in the "not hated as much" category, it's probably because loads of people just didn't care either way about it. To me, that's worse than some people loving it and some hating it. I didn't like FFX much either, but at least it had the grace to finish up in about 20 hours instead of fifty.
Anyway, what's the big deal about recycling the engine from a prior game? Halo: ODST and Halo: Reach are using the same engine. Valve uses the source engine for all their games (L4D, L4D2, TF2, HL2, Portal, etc). When you dump millions into developing a game engine, it's just good business sense to recycle it instead of throwing it away. And if there's a big game series which has no use for big, fancy, new engines, it's the Final Fantasy series. Flashy CG, some orchestral music, overdone graphics instead of writing, and bam, Final Fantasy Roman Numeral Whatever.
And using an already-developed engine is just good sense, too. Just about anything with physics uses Havoc. If you're a developer and want to make a game using an engine which someone else already developed and you can use for a fraction of the price, you'd be crazy to bother with making your own. Unless you're incompetent like the guys who made Too Human and bitch about how your own stupidity keeps you from making a decent game but blame it on the engine; then you just do what you want and cry about how nobody likes you and it just isn't fair.
Yeah, it's been a looooong time since I've heard anyone bitch about 9. Man, that was a fun one.
So, so, so boring. I wanted to like it so much, too. If it wins out in the "not hated as much" category, it's probably because loads of people just didn't care either way about it. To me, that's worse than some people loving it and some hating it. I didn't like FFX much either, but at least it had the grace to finish up in about 20 hours instead of fifty.
Anyway, what's the big deal about recycling the engine from a prior game? Halo: ODST and Halo: Reach are using the same engine. Valve uses the source engine for all their games (L4D, L4D2, TF2, HL2, Portal, etc). When you dump millions into developing a game engine, it's just good business sense to recycle it instead of throwing it away. And if there's a big game series which has no use for big, fancy, new engines, it's the Final Fantasy series. Flashy CG, some orchestral music, overdone graphics instead of writing, and bam, Final Fantasy Roman Numeral Whatever.
And using an already-developed engine is just good sense, too. Just about anything with physics uses Havoc. If you're a developer and want to make a game using an engine which someone else already developed and you can use for a fraction of the price, you'd be crazy to bother with making your own. Unless you're incompetent like the guys who made Too Human and bitch about how your own stupidity keeps you from making a decent game but blame it on the engine; then you just do what you want and cry about how nobody likes you and it just isn't fair.
Hasn't bungie been bragging about Halo: Reach's new engine?
I have a solution for the whole Final Fantasy problem.
1. Take the Kingdom Hearts 2 battle mechanics, engine, etc.
2. Apply it to Final Fantasy franchise for real. No FF13 Battle bullshit. Make FF14 a competent RPG/Brawler
3. Greatest Final Fantasy evar.
I have a solution for the whole Final Fantasy problem.
1. Take the Kingdom Hearts 2 battle mechanics, engine, etc.
2. Apply it to Final Fantasy franchise for real. No FF13 Battle bullshit. Make FF14 a competent RPG/Brawler
3. Greatest Final Fantasy evar.
I have a solution for the whole Final Fantasy problem.
1. Take the Kingdom Hearts 2 battle mechanics, engine, etc.
2. Apply it to Final Fantasy franchise for real. No FF13 Battle bullshit. Make FF14 a competent RPG/Brawler
3. Greatest Final Fantasy evar.
FFXIII Versus is being made by the Kingdom Hearts team with the Director of Kingdom Hearts in charge as well. It looks like it will be exactly what you are wanting. Hoping for more info at E3.
Halo: ODST and Halo: Reach are using the same engine.
I think you mean Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST used the same engine.
Entirely possible, but I'd heard that Halo: ODST used a different engine than H3 and Reach was using the same engine as ODST. Visually, ODST seems different enough to warrant the claim. But regardless, Bungie wisely recycles their engine to great effect, even if they're basically just upgrading the last engine for the latest game.
Speaking of Capcom recycling an engine, they're supposed to be using the same sort of engine from SFIV for Marvel vs Capcom 3. Frankly, a great idea. I've never played SFIV but I've heard plenty of good things. The less effort they have to put into making a game engine, the more resources they have available for cramming the game full of more characters and working on combat balance.
Except, of course, that SE was talking about how much work they put into developing this engine so that they could use it to build other games. Ergo, it's extremely relevant to the discussion of, "What was FFXIII's budget and when does it make money?"
And, besides, that's a really silly goose thing for you to say. Obviously, art assets are part of the budget. But if you're spreading, say, $10M of engine development over 1 game, or over 5 games, it has an impact on when you break even on a game.
By 'work' did they mean "pay TOSE to make it for us"?
Anyway, 'engines' are spoken about in such incredibly vague terms that we really don't have any clue how much Square Enix will be recycling from FFXIII for future games. We have no idea how versatile the Crystal Tools are (they haven't been called the 'White Engine' for years), so for all we know the FFXIV and FF Versus XIII teams will just have to re-write over the FFXIII code anyway.
Also, art assets do actually take up the vast majority of game budgets these days. Especially if you're going to have high resolution pre-rendered videos in your game.
Cantido: FFXIII's battle system was the best part of FFXIII, so no.
Speaking of Capcom recycling an engine, they're supposed to be using the same sort of engine from SFIV for Marvel vs Capcom 3. Frankly, a great idea. I've never played SFIV but I've heard plenty of good things. The less effort they have to put into making a game engine, the more resources they have available for cramming the game full of more characters and working on combat balance.
Actually, MvC3 will be using MT Framework, which is the engine of a number of Capcom games, such Devil May Cry 4, Lost Planet 2 and Resident Evil 5, but not Street Fighter IV.
That universe seemed kinda cool, I just wanted to play a better game in it
It's a nomura game. The plot will no doubt be some of the most mind numbingly retarded stuff imaginable, but it will be fun as hell to play.
Nojima's writing Versus XIII so it'll still probably be a lot better than FFXIII's writing/storytelling.
Oh and Vow, Versus XIII's set in an entirely different universe from XIII. The only thing tying all the FFXIII games together is the 'crystalis' theme.
Oh and Vow, Versus XIII's set in an entirely different universe from XIII. The only thing tying all the FFXIII games together is the 'crystalis' theme.
"Set in the same Universe" according many sites, but with just a different world, characters, etc.
So you're basically right. They just have the FFXIII name tacked on to it for publicity.
Oh and Vow, Versus XIII's set in an entirely different universe from XIII. The only thing tying all the FFXIII games together is the 'crystalis' theme.
"Set in the same Universe" according many sites, but with just a different world, characters, etc.
So you're basically right. They just have the FFXIII name tacked on to it for publicity.
I guess we can only hope that turns out to be a wise idea. The only thing that would be better than that would be Tony Hawk's Hoverboard Racer featuring Marty McFly.
Oh and Vow, Versus XIII's set in an entirely different universe from XIII. The only thing tying all the FFXIII games together is the 'crystalis' theme.
"Set in the same Universe" according many sites, but with just a different world, characters, etc.
So you're basically right. They just have the FFXIII name tacked on to it for publicity.
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In any case, even in previous generations reusing engines didn't make later games cost less to develop than those that came out in the beginning. Put it this way, SE didn't make FF13 an extremely linear game because the engine couldn't handle anything else and it didn't take long for them to port to the 360.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Companies are now licensing other companies engines? More companies now are making their own than they did in the past.
We need to get someone who works at Nintendo to start posting here. That way I can ask them to see if they can get me a copy of the classic Hanafuda cards to go along with my Club Nintendo set..
I'm also extremely curious if the employee store is just a standard World Store but with prices like 75% off or something.. Or if they have really cool stuff like "Don't hate me because Mario is my boss" t-shirts. :P
Sure. But we're talking about internal cost allocations as part of determining a project's budget and, therefore, its required sales goals.
This is a really fuzzy area even within well-functioning companies, but it's important. If SE (or, hell, anyone) develops something with the idea of using it for other things down the line, most of the time they allocate a part of the development budget to those other things - they'll be reaping part of the benefits, ergo they should pay part of the cost.
Thus, it affects the company's internal view on when Project X breaks even (and, therefore, how likely the company is to do something like Project X again in the future). It also spills over into the performance of Project Y - if they don't have to cover any of the costs of the engine's development, then, internally, it'll make Project Y look more successful than it otherwise would have been, which is unlikely to sit well with the team that developed Project X.
At the end of the day, yes, SE has spent $Texas on developing their engine - they can split it up however they want, but it still totals up to $Texas. But whether the FFXIII dev team is responsible for covering all of that cost or only, say, $Idaho, is also an important matter.
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Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
So, so, so boring. I wanted to like it so much, too. If it wins out in the "not hated as much" category, it's probably because loads of people just didn't care either way about it. To me, that's worse than some people loving it and some hating it. I didn't like FFX much either, but at least it had the grace to finish up in about 20 hours instead of fifty.
Anyway, what's the big deal about recycling the engine from a prior game? Halo: ODST and Halo: Reach are using the same engine. Valve uses the source engine for all their games (L4D, L4D2, TF2, HL2, Portal, etc). When you dump millions into developing a game engine, it's just good business sense to recycle it instead of throwing it away. And if there's a big game series which has no use for big, fancy, new engines, it's the Final Fantasy series. Flashy CG, some orchestral music, overdone graphics instead of writing, and bam, Final Fantasy Roman Numeral Whatever.
And using an already-developed engine is just good sense, too. Just about anything with physics uses Havoc. If you're a developer and want to make a game using an engine which someone else already developed and you can use for a fraction of the price, you'd be crazy to bother with making your own. Unless you're incompetent like the guys who made Too Human and bitch about how your own stupidity keeps you from making a decent game but blame it on the engine; then you just do what you want and cry about how nobody likes you and it just isn't fair.
Hasn't bungie been bragging about Halo: Reach's new engine?
1. Take the Kingdom Hearts 2 battle mechanics, engine, etc.
2. Apply it to Final Fantasy franchise for real. No FF13 Battle bullshit. Make FF14 a competent RPG/Brawler
3. Greatest Final Fantasy evar.
I think you mean Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST used the same engine.
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FF14 is an MMO.
How have the DS/PSP games done in comparison to KH 1 & 2?
FFXIII Versus is being made by the Kingdom Hearts team with the Director of Kingdom Hearts in charge as well. It looks like it will be exactly what you are wanting. Hoping for more info at E3.
In other news, I may be a little late with this
http://au.ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1089562p1.html
PS3 has hit 35 million units sold. 360 is a bit over 40 million.
Entirely possible, but I'd heard that Halo: ODST used a different engine than H3 and Reach was using the same engine as ODST. Visually, ODST seems different enough to warrant the claim. But regardless, Bungie wisely recycles their engine to great effect, even if they're basically just upgrading the last engine for the latest game.
Speaking of Capcom recycling an engine, they're supposed to be using the same sort of engine from SFIV for Marvel vs Capcom 3. Frankly, a great idea. I've never played SFIV but I've heard plenty of good things. The less effort they have to put into making a game engine, the more resources they have available for cramming the game full of more characters and working on combat balance.
By 'work' did they mean "pay TOSE to make it for us"?
Anyway, 'engines' are spoken about in such incredibly vague terms that we really don't have any clue how much Square Enix will be recycling from FFXIII for future games. We have no idea how versatile the Crystal Tools are (they haven't been called the 'White Engine' for years), so for all we know the FFXIV and FF Versus XIII teams will just have to re-write over the FFXIII code anyway.
Also, art assets do actually take up the vast majority of game budgets these days. Especially if you're going to have high resolution pre-rendered videos in your game.
Cantido: FFXIII's battle system was the best part of FFXIII, so no.
Actually, MvC3 will be using MT Framework, which is the engine of a number of Capcom games, such Devil May Cry 4, Lost Planet 2 and Resident Evil 5, but not Street Fighter IV.
Not really - the KH 'main' team has always been stuck with FFvsXIII, so until that game comes out we're not going to see KH3.
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That reminds me. Given the rep FFXIII has gotten, FFvsXIII might be kinda boned.
Come to think of it that one might have a hefty development budget too, considering it's been worked on for a loooooong time.
I hated XIII but still eagerly await Versus
That universe seemed kinda cool, I just wanted to play a better game in it
It's a nomura game. The plot will no doubt be some of the most mind numbingly retarded stuff imaginable, but it will be fun as hell to play.
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Nojima's writing Versus XIII so it'll still probably be a lot better than FFXIII's writing/storytelling.
Oh and Vow, Versus XIII's set in an entirely different universe from XIII. The only thing tying all the FFXIII games together is the 'crystalis' theme.
"Set in the same Universe" according many sites, but with just a different world, characters, etc.
So you're basically right. They just have the FFXIII name tacked on to it for publicity.
I guess we can only hope that turns out to be a wise idea. The only thing that would be better than that would be Tony Hawk's Hoverboard Racer featuring Marty McFly.
Then it's difficult not to be pessimistic.
WARNING: Contains Cute Death Dealer.
...well, that's silly.
That actually... Man. That's not so ridiculous.
It'll be preeeety ridiculous.
No, Pixeljunk is still siller, since the games have less to do with each other than FFXIII does with FFXIII versus.
Looks like Nomura finally saw Reservoir Dogs