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Girlfriend pregnant, wants adoption... I don't
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Let's try and stay civil regardless of our viewpoints and maybe even helpful.
I also haven't seen the OP comment in a while so maybe you could all cool it a touch until you get some actual input. Why the OP feels that adoption is such a bad choice in this scenario, and what he hopes to achieve out of this while adopting the kid would be important things to know.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Thank goodness someone in here isn't acting the hyperdefensive goose. I was just pointing out that there's no point stressing about being the perfect parent.
Do you make enough at your job to afford to raise a child? Do you make enough to afford raising a child AND help put your girlfriend through the rest of her college education? Do NOT skimp on your cost estimates here, you need to keep in mind insurance, day care costs (because you won't ALWAYS have someone who is willing to watch your child, even in optimum circumstances), delivery costs, etc. If your baby needs a lifeflight to a better hospital because something goes wrong during delivery, are you going to be able to swing that or is it going to be insanely financially stressing? If your baby is premature and needs a month of ICU... breaks a bone as a toddler and needs care... are these things that you will have covered by insurance and be able to afford the copays and deductibles on?
You say you have a good support network... objectively, how much do you think you can rely on that? Is Bob a pretty good guy but sometimes he goes on vacation for a month with no notice? You can't count on him to be there when you need help.
Can you two afford a place to live together with the added expenses that come with a baby? What would your rent, food, insurance premiums, school charges, gas, etc be? If you couldn't afford it, is moving in with family an option you would be willing to take to improve your child's quality of life if it was necessary? Would it be an option that is even available to you?
Are you truly ready to become a parent? I don't mean in a do you have a 50k savings account balance way, but are you (or both of you) ready to look at not only the good things you get with children but the "bad"? Are you willing and ready to realize that you will become the second most important person in your life for the rest of your life? That there may be weeks or months or years where you don't get what you want because your child needs new school clothes or a medical treatment? I know you said already that you want to become a parent in the future, but are you sure you're matured and ready for this right now?
That's a CPC, those are the same people who set up ads that make them look like they offer abortions then when the girl gets there they drag her on and about with such a lag that by time she figures out they're jerking her around it's too late for an abortion. Or she shows up and they make her look at sonograms of the baby, ask if she really wants to kill it and then cover her in pr-life pamphlets.
Do you have any kids?
It's really easy to get attached when it's your kid.
Man, the first time I felt my son kick, it was over (not that I ever wanted to be rid of him in the first place).
and when I saw the sonogram, and he gave us the thumbs up, holy crap.
Yeah, it's not creepy--it's pretty much a biological imperative that you attach to your offspring.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you want to keep the child, but don't give any sort of ultimatum. If it does come down to you keeping the child without her being involved then that is something you can decide right at the end.
Tell her that you understand her fears, that you have confidence in her ability to be a mother, and that with the support system you guys (list everything) that this is not impossible. School may have to be put off for a while or slowed down to part time, but it's not something she has to give up on forever.
Since you asked for personal anecdotes, I'll say that my mother had me when she was 22 and her mother had her when she was 22, so when I was 22 I thought a lot about pregnancy and parenting. I can say that at 22 I was terrified that I was not ready. I can understand her fear. I was enjoying my life and would not be ready for a kid. However less than 2 years later when I thought about it again, I realized I was strong enough to handle being a parent. While she may think right now that she's not ready, that may just be a decision being made out of fear rather than something she is very sure of.
A lot can happen in 9 months to change your mind. Be supportive and be positive. If it is fear and panic, this will help her get over it. If it is a real, thoughtful decision then you can decide whether you want to raise the baby without her involvement.
I think it's not creepy at a later point, but this soon in? Little odd.
I think the "creepy" may be encompassing the entire situation. I wouldn't go quite that far with it, but it is a little...over the top in a way?
It's not, and unfortunately, it's nothing you can really explain.
I don't understand this thought in the thread at all. People seem to be missing the fact that for a month, he was operating on the assumption that come November, he would be a father, and that only changed in the last week or so.
Just because he's not the one carrying the child doesn't mean he's some weirdo for being emotionally invested in it.
You need to stop thinking this way.
She doesn't want to be a parent. As someone else pointed out, she decided this based on one conversation with her mom. So now you're trying to sway her the other way. Stoooop.
Stop, because her concerns about balancing work/school/baby are legitimate.
Stop, because people who are so easily talked into/out of wanting to be a parent are not very enthusiastic about it at their core.
Stop, because the only choice left is one you have to make: keep the girl and give up the baby or keep the baby and give up the girl.
If you have any doubts whatsoever about your potential to be a good mother then you shouldn't be a parent.
The idea that either of the people in this situation have some sort of one or the other ultimatum is ridiculously oversimplifying the situation and shouldn't be giving advice.
She had her baby in September. She expected to be able to keep all her classes that term, but ended up dropping all but one because I think she was nursing. She came back to school nearly-full-time this term, and is doing really well in all her classes. Next term is, I believe, her last, and then she will be applying to medical school like she always wanted for Oncology.
She and her husband both work - she works part-time at a nice restaurant whatever hours she can get. He works full-time. Their parents take turns watching their little girl while she's in class during the day, and when she has to work in the evenings he watches her. Their parents are all extremely supportive and love the baby, and if you can get this kind of support going it can definitely work. Nobody put any dreams on hold or anything, and the baby is with loving caretakers round-the-clock. It's a ton of work for everyone, but they're all willing to do it and are pretty happy with things. As far as I can tell, no one feels put-upon because they all love this baby.
I think that's what you're looking for. It can work, and though it's a ton of work, for them at least it's working out. I think it's all about the support system you have at that point.
That's all well and good, and great for them, but I think the big thing is that the mother just doesn't want to be a mother right now. I think by the OP just relentlessly badgering her with "Oh look! Someone people on the internet said it could work! Let's do this!" it's only going to annoy her more and more.
So what's your agenda here?
If you have a question, PM me instead of derailing the thread.
Besides that, my parents both had me when they were 19/20 and my sister was born when they were 22/23. Neither of us were planned, but they made it work. My mom did have to put her school work on hold but she did work part time when we were small and had neighbors look after us. There were a few years in there where my mom became irresponsible and moved out and my dad took primary care of us. But we were older so this doesn't exactly fit into your dilemma here. However, its another example of a dad getting things done on his own.
- If the mother doesn't want to be a mother, she will give the baby up for adoption.
- If she carries the child to term, he has rights as the father to adopt the child. There is no conflict here.
- I believe that he has already mentioned that he understands that if she goes this route he cannot keep the kid AND the girl, and I have a feeling it's over with the girl either way at this point so it's pretty moot on that count.
- If the mother wants to be a dick she can totally say "Anybody can have the baby except you because you did this to me you asshole" but when push comes to shove I like to think that she won't, and if she does have can be prepared with a lawyer.
- Nothing is set in stone anyway because as the mother herself has pointed out, they are 7 1/2 months away and everyone has time to change their minds.
But all of that has already been said and I get the feeling the OP knows what's up so I figured I'd make the post he actually asked for.
If you're seriously advocating not being a single parent to a kid because it might make someone uncomfortable...
I just
This is beyond silly goosery here
Yeah. THE MOTHER.
And this was in response to someone talking about the mom not wanting any contact with the child. See the relation? I'm not advocating anything.
Well no, you can't actually deny another parent anything unless they're actually abusive or they give those rights up voluntarily. But yes, there's nothing legal stopping you from becoming Mr. Dad, even if she wants the kid to wind up across the country.
Reality check: One parent's merest comfort level with re seeing the kid around town and having it put some sort of horrible imagined specter over their twenties is really very, very secondary to the other parent's actual, legal, parental rights. This is true ethically and legally.
I host a podcast about movies.
Oh well that's a completely reasonable arguement to make, how silly of me to assume that someone's discomfort is less important than the welfare of a child
So in other words, you're being a concern troll
Gotcha.
OP, don't listen to Esh- he has bad advice
It's 4AM and I won't belabor the point, but private adoption looks nothing like foster care. It's portrayed worse than it really is in movies as-is. In truth, it's a wonderful blessing to a (usually very well-off) family who can't have children for a variety of reasons. Natural parents are no more skilled in the art of parenting by virtue of sharing roughly 50% of their child's genetic material (not even gene expressions, I mean God).
To give a quick anecdotal piece of evidence, I have a full biological brother. He's a wonderful guy, a few years older than me (I'm 24). Our birth mother raised him virtually alone, because eventually our birth father split. He grew up in the projects in Minnesota, developed a number of mental disorders along the way, had trouble in school, dropped out, became a coke dealer, joined the army for an experimental training program and got crushed by that (there was an inquiry into the program and it was quietly done away with) and eventually found his feet in his mid-late 20s. In contrast, I was adopted by two very loving and able parents in San Francisco. I have lived a life of plenty and have been given many opportunities to demonstrate and develop my talents. I go to an excellent university and I am graduating into an excellent job. Life is good for me, and would have been soulcrushingly awful under a situation of non-adoption. The same is true for my adoptive brother. Remember, a good deal of research has gone into how single-parent and divorced families make a child quantitatively and qualitatively worse off than a two-parent household.
OP: do you think that your relationship with the mother will survive adoption?
If it will survive adoption, why not let the mum adopt this kid out and have another kid in 4 years time?
You can't tell the girl that she won't have to make sacrifices if she keeps the kid, because she will. The simple fact is that she is 22, and she wants to live her life for herself at that age. Having a kid will change all that. Her #1 priority will no longer be whatever her #1 priority is now, but will be her family.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Don't exaggerate and then try to bring in evidence. It's not always true. There are just increased risks of various behaviours associated with single parents, but there are also a lot of mitigating factors including financial situation, when and how the parents split, and parental involvement. It's disingenuous to say that "if you keep this kid you are dooming him to a poorer quality of life". That's awesome that you turned out well and unfortunate that your brother had a rough time until his 20s, but the plural of anecdote is not data.
If you want a completely contradictory personal anecdote, I was raised by a single mother who had me when she was 22. I'm well on my way to becoming a doctor. Children raised by single parents can and do turn out fine.
But honestly, I don't think this situation is going to come to that. I still hold by my advice that if you talk to her and try to address her fears she will have more confidence in her ability to raise a child.
This has little if any bearing on the situation the OP is talking about. The mother is understandably uncertain about whether she is in a position to raise a kid and the OP is simply trying to show that yes, they can do this together or if she still decides it's too much for her to handle, then he'll probably raise the kid as a single father. You say "convinced" as if he's a con man trying to trick her into keeping the kid, when really he's just looking to show her how they can do this together. That's pretty reasonable and human and normal.
You need to really think about that. She (or her mother) is very justified in her concerns re: childrearing in addition to work/school. If the door hasn't closed on her decision to possibly raise a child with you I think the best you can do is express that you will make whatever sacrifices are necessary to raise the child and see her personal goals met too. Perhaps she can take the post-delivery semester off or take classes by correspondence. Personally I think between the demands of late pregnancy through through the first months of childrearing, trying not to fail out of school, and working, that one of these is likely going to give, and one needs to plan accordingly.
stuff regarding child-rearing:
Even if you think her mother is somehow manipulating her against you and what you want there's no profit in keeping that perspective in your head. She's looking out for her daughter and you don't want to come across to the daughter that you're enemies with her mother. That's more of an aside, I gathered from your posts that you feel this way about her mom.
However, if he wants to be a father, he has every damn right to do so. It's not anyone's place to say otherwise. It sounds most likely as if the OP is going to run into a situation like "it's the baby or the girl"... but this shouldn't discourage him.
If you REALLY want this baby, and you REALLY want to be a father don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You shouldn't be forced to give up your own child if you don't want to, no matter how uncomfortable the mother feels. She doesn't like it? Sorry. I'd rather see a loving parent retain their rights to raise their child than risk making someone uncomfortable if they have to see the kid around town every now and again. Apologies if this sounds rude towards the mother, but it's just as much a right of the OP to BE a father as it is of the mother to NOT BE a mother.
Don't pressure her to raise the child with you, or badger her on the issue--however, if you choose to be a single dad and are ready to accept everything that comes with it; do it. If you love this child and want this child then I'm sure the kid will turn out perfectly fine. Just give it your all and don't give up.
I was in your situation myself when I was 22 years old. except my boyfriend didn't want the baby and I did. I very much wanted to keep the child I had already fallen in love with. But he pressured me and scared me into getting an abortion. To this day, I wish I had been strong enough to say no. I wish I had fought tooth and nail to keep that child.
I've never told anybody really about this. and never on the internet, but I wanted to share with you so you could hopefully avoid a situation you may regret later.
Get a lawyer OP. You have rights once she's given birth. If you want to keep your child, fight for it.
Also, I was also raised by a single mom, a dirt poor single mom who also had a drinking problem. But I turned out pretty damn fantastic. I'm a professional who is far from poor and I know how to love.
I am very glad my mother never gave me up.
But, a few months down the line, if she's definitely not interested in raising the kid, and you feel she's going to fight you taking custody, lawyer up.
The good thing is that it sounds like you've got the support of your parents, which will help. You'll probably depend on them a lot to help get you through the rigors, being a new parent and all.
My brother in law raised 3 girls on his own before he met my sister and married her. He had no support from his family and he and the woman involved split when the oldest was 5, which left him with a 3 year old and a newborn. He struggled, but was able to do it and the kids are healthy and awesome. He raised them on his own for 4 years before he met my sister. He had dropped out of highschool to work for the kids, but ended up getting his GED. He didn't have time or money for college and worked two jobs to support the girls. Eventually he got on with a Costco, where after several years he became manager for a Bakery department. But of course, that wasn't his passion. After marrying my sister the two of them decided that he would go back to school, so after years of scrimping, saving and a loan, he has his AA and is now working for Sutter health making 65k a year. They have their own house as well. He's 35.
It can be done, but it's not easy and you have to be confident and determined to be a good father.
You need to sit down with yourself and honestly think about what you want to do if she decides she doesn't want to raise the child. You need to plan for that eventuality because that's what you have actual control over. That way you'll be prepared both if she decides to stay with you and the child, and if she decides not to. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
You have to show her that YOU are taking on this commitment and YOU are willing to sacrifice everything and you WILL, and it would be awesome if you could do it together, but if not you'll do it yourself. Be able to demonstrate to her that you have your OWN support system in place that doesn't involve her or hers should she decide she wants no part of it, and that you have talked with the people you know and actually have the ability to make this work. Reassure her that you will do everything in your power to make sure she doesn't have to put her dreams on hold. Be prepared for her to say no anyway, and be accepting when she does.
Know the ins and outs of getting custody BEFORE it becomes an issue, and take care to learn your rights as they pertain to your specific situation in your location. Be prepared to have the miserable conversation you will need to have when you ask her to sign away her rights. Be prepared to lose her completely, because even if you don't now, chances are very good that you will down the line, whether or not you exercise your parental rights. You just haven't known each other for very long. Then be prepared to put your money where your mouth is and have no life for a very long time as your every available moment is consumed by this commitment.
Most of all, think this through. There are adoption programs out there that allow you to hand-pick the people who would raise your child and even be a part of their lives. Raising a child with her may simply be impossible, and while raising it yourself is a perfectly valid option, there really isn't anything terrible about adoption.
I know how much you want this, believe me, and I'm sure any number of us at this forum will support whatever decision you decide is best for you (or not as the case may be), but when it comes right down to it we are some people on the internets who don't actually have to do any of this work for you or deal with the parting loss you'll feel. So make sure that you decide only after extensive conversation with the loved ones who would help you and a realistic overview of your time and finances.
edit: Oh yeah, and if it all goes that way, don't try to deny her visitation if she decides she wants it because that's unnecessary and immature.