[Supernatural]: This is why we can't have nice things, Sam.

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  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Reznik wrote: »
    As far as we know, Crowley is a Crossroads demon, probably the highest ranking one and in charge of the others. He's supposedly Lilith's right hand.

    The demonic hierarchy is something like this (in ascending order):

    Black eyed (Ruby and generic demons)
    Red Eyed (Crossroads demons, Crowley)
    White Eyed (Lilith, Alistair)

    I have no idea where Azazel/Yellow Eyed fits on this list. Since he seems to be the only YED and kinda got the ball rolling on prepping Sam for vesseldom I'm inclined to think he ranks higher than the WED.

    Actually, I'm having trouble finding where it is, but I remember Crowley flashing yellow eyes in a recent episode, and his sealing the deal with a kiss is the exact same thing Azazel did.

    And in "Abandon All Hope" he even tells the old man he french's he'll "See him in 10 years"

    Honestly I think "Crowley" is Azazel.

    TracerBullet on
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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Reznik wrote: »
    As far as we know, Crowley is a Crossroads demon, probably the highest ranking one and in charge of the others. He's supposedly Lilith's right hand.

    The demonic hierarchy is something like this (in ascending order):

    Black eyed (Ruby and generic demons)
    Red Eyed (Crossroads demons, Crowley)
    White Eyed (Lilith, Alistair)

    I have no idea where Azazel/Yellow Eyed fits on this list. Since he seems to be the only YED and kinda got the ball rolling on prepping Sam for vesseldom I'm inclined to think he ranks higher than the WED.

    Actually, I'm having trouble finding where it is, but I remember Crowley flashing yellow eyes in a recent episode, and his sealing the deal with a kiss is the exact same thing Azazel did.

    And in "Abandon All Hope" he even tells the old man he french's he'll "See him in 10 years"

    Honestly I think "Crowley" is Azazel.

    10 years and sealing with a kiss is standard Crossroad Demon, though. That's how it went in Crossroad Blues. The only reason Dean got a year was because the demons don't like him.

    Reznik on
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  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Reznik wrote: »
    Reznik wrote: »
    As far as we know, Crowley is a Crossroads demon, probably the highest ranking one and in charge of the others. He's supposedly Lilith's right hand.

    The demonic hierarchy is something like this (in ascending order):

    Black eyed (Ruby and generic demons)
    Red Eyed (Crossroads demons, Crowley)
    White Eyed (Lilith, Alistair)

    I have no idea where Azazel/Yellow Eyed fits on this list. Since he seems to be the only YED and kinda got the ball rolling on prepping Sam for vesseldom I'm inclined to think he ranks higher than the WED.

    Actually, I'm having trouble finding where it is, but I remember Crowley flashing yellow eyes in a recent episode, and his sealing the deal with a kiss is the exact same thing Azazel did.

    And in "Abandon All Hope" he even tells the old man he french's he'll "See him in 10 years"

    Honestly I think "Crowley" is Azazel.

    10 years and sealing with a kiss is standard Crossroad Demon, though. That's how it went in Crossroad Blues. The only reason Dean got a year was because the demons don't like him.

    Well then I think that may enter into where Azazel and Crowley actually stand--The end all be all of crossroads. Azazel dies, Crowley gets promoted.

    TracerBullet on
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    TyrantCow wrote: »
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  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    I know this is highly unlikely, but. . .

    I'd love if, after all is said and done, we find out that Crowley is not a demon at all. But that he's God, nudging the boys in the right direction. Hence Dean's faith in him and Sam's complete lack thereof.

    Lynx on
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    I know this is highly unlikely, but. . .

    I'd love if, after all is said and done, we find out that Crowley is not a demon at all. But that he's God, nudging the boys in the right direction. Hence Dean's faith in him and Sam's complete lack thereof.

    Well I am trying to remember but has he ever doned the black eyes??

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  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    I know this is highly unlikely, but. . .

    I'd love if, after all is said and done, we find out that Crowley is not a demon at all. But that he's God, nudging the boys in the right direction. Hence Dean's faith in him and Sam's complete lack thereof.

    Well I am trying to remember but has he ever doned the black eyes??

    Not that I'm aware of. Nor has Sam managed to hit him with the Knife (Which would give it away). And they don't have the Amulet with them. And he's sort of tested Dean's faith in him. of course, the rock salt blew him back, but, if he's God, he could just be faking to keep up the illusion.

    I mean, I'm probably reaching at straws, but something is definitely off about Crowley. . .

    Lynx on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2010
    Bolthorn wrote: »
    its weird enough that he's even armed.

    It's Bobby.

    Yeah, pretty much this. If you were in this line of work, you'd be armed all the time. Bobby probably has a gun in a plastic bag that he keeps in the shower.

    Heh, I kind of meant in relation to the average crip :P crowley clearly wasn't expecting to have to deal with actual ouchies just for showing up. Bobby's less inclined to waste time threatening than the boys are.

    The Cat on
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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    I know this is highly unlikely, but. . .

    I'd love if, after all is said and done, we find out that Crowley is not a demon at all. But that he's God, nudging the boys in the right direction. Hence Dean's faith in him and Sam's complete lack thereof.

    I did contemplate this theory but that would mean God is going around taking souls and being an all round douche.

    And they gave Dean a year for his soul because they wanted him downstairs ASAP and 10 years gives him too much time to get out of it.

    DarkWarrior on
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I still think Azazel was a Nephilim. He even says in one episode that his father was an angel.

    In the book of Enoch, Azazel was the leader of the "Watchers" a group of Angels who interacted with humans directly and had children with them, those children being the Nephilim.

    I have no doubts that Azazel was stronger than Lilith and that he might have been considered a "demon" but was in another class all together.

    MagicPrime on
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  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    I know this is highly unlikely, but. . .

    I'd love if, after all is said and done, we find out that Crowley is not a demon at all. But that he's God, nudging the boys in the right direction. Hence Dean's faith in him and Sam's complete lack thereof.

    I did contemplate this theory but that would mean God is going around taking souls and being an all round douche.

    And they gave Dean a year for his soul because they wanted him downstairs ASAP and 10 years gives him too much time to get out of it.

    Is he taking souls? We don't know. He could just say he is. As for God being a douche. . .well, it's not much different than him letting the Apocalypse happening. Except that he'd actually be helping out.

    Lynx on
  • CojonesCojones Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I really don't see how they can possibly wrap up not only the whole Michael/Lucifer shenanigans but also the whole remaining horsemen business in the ~80 minutes we have left in series 5.

    Not only this, but what about the other loose ends they left in S5 - Jesse(ep6) it's been a LONG time since he was on the screens and apparently may have enough power to wrap up this whole business in time for lunch, Kali(ep19) supposed to be fairly powerful but was brushed aside by Lucie. Also, will there be any further mention of Raphael(Is he still stuck in one of those holy fire rings in some shack?)? What about Castiel's fading divinity/descent to humanity?

    It seems as if this'll be one of the most interest-packed 80 minutes we've seen or they're leaving a lot of loose ends in this season.

    Cojones on
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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    So. Death is fucking awesome.

    Reznik on
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    Forget it...
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    This episode was pretty good, the actor that played Death was a great choice, can't remember where I recognize him from.

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  • cr0wcr0w Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Dean looked to be on the verge of crapping his pants throughout that entire conversation. That scene was fucking incredible.

    cr0w on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    cr0w wrote: »
    Dean looked to be on the verge of crapping his pants throughout that entire conversation. That scene was fucking incredible.

    BTW, what was Death's car? Aside from being a pale horse.

    *edit*
    Per random internet comments:
    "Its a 1960 Caddy Eldorado Brougham. If we get a shot of the tail lights we should be able to see two round lights in the fin and a long backup light in the bumper. Its a very rare car, only 101 were made. How the heck did they get this one?"

    A Brougham being a type of horse-drawn cart.

    Houn on
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Great episode indeed.

    Death rocked.

    You can tell they really did run out of time in dealing with the horsemen though, that's a bit of shoddy planning.

    Cade on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What is the name of that song that was playing during Death's little stroll? It was also in the trailer posted a while back.

    I would absolutely kill for that song.

    Oh yeah, bitching episode. Though I was more impressed with Pestilence than Death. Matt Frewer is criminally underrated.

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  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Jen Titus - O death is the song you are looking for.

    It was on cwtv.com to download and might still be there but if not there is another option, namely..Tada

    I'll send you a list of who to kill in the morning okay.

    Just be glad I'm not a crossroad demon.

    Cade on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What is the name of that song that was playing during Death's little stroll? It was also in the trailer posted a while back.

    I would absolutely kill for that song.

    Oh yeah, bitching episode. Though I was more impressed with Pestilence than Death. Matt Frewer is criminally underrated.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39JCHqDCbc&playnext_from=TL&videos=3W2JklNqqRo

    Yeah Death was amazing.

    Aeolusdallas on
  • cr0wcr0w Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    I loved how Death wasn't just another thuggish Horseman. He's an ancient force, possibly older than God, who was enslaved by Lucifer even though he's more powerful than anyone can imagine. They did such a good job with that, since everyone was wondering just how they could beat Death. And when Dean realized that he'll reap God eventually, the look on his face was perfect.

    cr0w on
  • MrIamMeMrIamMe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't think they ran out of time with the horsemen, it was pretty much perfect.
    That little chat with death was amazing.

    As to crowley being god, I did think that during this episode.

    Healing bobby, teleporting, seemingly to give a damn doesnt seem all that demony to me

    MrIamMe on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wow I hadn't considered Crowley being god, but other demons recognize him as a demon, and didn't he call sams college buddy "uncle?"

    Preacher on
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  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If you wanted to make the argument, I'm pretty sure God could pretend to be a demon pretty easily. He's fucking God. I'm sure he could pull off any disguise in Creation.

    Not that I'm saying Crowley is God. Just, it's easy to handwave if he were.

    Houn on
  • BecomingBecoming Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I watched Death's intro about 10 times. Fantastic stuff, but I want more!

    Becoming on
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Houn wrote: »
    If you wanted to make the argument, I'm pretty sure God could pretend to be a demon pretty easily. He's fucking God. I'm sure he could pull off any disguise in Creation.

    Not that I'm saying Crowley is God. Just, it's easy to handwave if he were.

    That's pretty much my argument. Crowley has been pretty nice for a demon. And it's a little strange that he just so happened to have Death's Sickle. I mean. . .uh, where the hell did he get that?

    He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve to be just a demon. . .

    Lynx on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    See, now thats how ALL of the Horsemen should have been. They're brothers, they should be relatively as old as each other considering their purpose and yet they were all petty and dealt with so easily that any drunk redneck could have stumbled up to them and cut their finger off. They displayed no level of ability greater than most creatures or even that stupid Anti-Christ and yet Death did little and yet was portrayed as being ridiculously powerful.

    Though I fail to see how an eternal being can be reaped. Who reaps the reaper?

    It was an ok episode but again its being dealt with terrible, Croatoa wiped out off-screen, an entire demonic plan run out of one single depot so because of wasted episodes we've had 3 pussy Horsemen and now one episode to wrap up the entire angle.

    Suffice to say, I am not content with the second half of this season.

    DarkWarrior on
  • ArkasArkas Registered User
    edited May 2010
    I could kinda understand the 'Crowley is God' argument based on the last couple episodes, since everything he's done has turned out so helpful.

    However, if you remember he gave them the colt and instigated the big showdown with Lucifer that got Ellen and Jo killed. Not a lot of good came from that. It's hard to imagine why God would set that up.


    In other news, he is 0 for 2 in the 'unstoppable super-weapons' department. I kinda like that he obviously doesn't test his shit, and is probably pulling most of his plans out of his ass.

    Arkas on
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    One thing more then anything else made me think that Crowley was God.

    He told Dean they should go for a slice of pizza, where was Death? In a pizzeria, he kind of found Death all of a sudden just before they were going to leave didn't he?

    It makes sense if he is God, where would God hide?

    Look at Gabriel, he reinvented himself as a Trickster, everyone fell for it. So where would be the last place you would look for God? Where demons lie, especially if he was pretending to be a demon. Who would think he'd pretend to be one?

    Cade on
  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wonder what happened to the real Loki.

    Bethryn on
  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Wonder what happened to the real Loki.

    That was Gabriel all along. God I loved that character.

    Warcry on
  • cabsycabsy the fattest rainbow unicorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    See, now thats how ALL of the Horsemen should have been. They're brothers, they should be relatively as old as each other considering their purpose and yet they were all petty and dealt with so easily that any drunk redneck could have stumbled up to them and cut their finger off. They displayed no level of ability greater than most creatures or even that stupid Anti-Christ and yet Death did little and yet was portrayed as being ridiculously powerful.

    Though I fail to see how an eternal being can be reaped. Who reaps the reaper?

    It was an ok episode but again its being dealt with terrible, Croatoa wiped out off-screen, an entire demonic plan run out of one single depot so because of wasted episodes we've had 3 pussy Horsemen and now one episode to wrap up the entire angle.

    Suffice to say, I am not content with the second half of this season.

    Death can be recognized by pretty much all creatures - maybe not by name, but instinctually they avoid and fear death, so Death would be much older and by sheer numbers more powerful, because all things have to die, but not all things experience famine or war or plague. I mean they would have all become Horsemen at the same time, but Death has been around since life began.

    cabsy on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    cabsy wrote: »
    See, now thats how ALL of the Horsemen should have been. They're brothers, they should be relatively as old as each other considering their purpose and yet they were all petty and dealt with so easily that any drunk redneck could have stumbled up to them and cut their finger off. They displayed no level of ability greater than most creatures or even that stupid Anti-Christ and yet Death did little and yet was portrayed as being ridiculously powerful.

    Though I fail to see how an eternal being can be reaped. Who reaps the reaper?

    It was an ok episode but again its being dealt with terrible, Croatoa wiped out off-screen, an entire demonic plan run out of one single depot so because of wasted episodes we've had 3 pussy Horsemen and now one episode to wrap up the entire angle.

    Suffice to say, I am not content with the second half of this season.

    Death can be recognized by pretty much all creatures - maybe not by name, but instinctually they avoid and fear death, so Death would be much older and by sheer numbers more powerful, because all things have to die, but not all things experience famine or war or plague. I mean they would have all become Horsemen at the same time, but Death has been around since life began.

    It all depensd I guess, since theyre a part of the Christian apocalypse assumedly they were formed after God but Death says he possibly is as old or older than God, so old that he considers Lucifer a child. Pestilence didn't seem too concerned with Lucifer either though maybe that was a rage on, but you have to figure they're older than all the Angels and so closer to Death's age but who knows, he didn't seem particularly concerned about his brothers so maybe they aren't even his brothers. This is where more episodes dedicated to tehm would have been handy.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    One thing more then anything else made me think that Crowley was God.

    He told Dean they should go for a slice of pizza, where was Death? In a pizzeria, he kind of found Death all of a sudden just before they were going to leave didn't he?

    It makes sense if he is God, where would God hide?

    Look at Gabriel, he reinvented himself as a Trickster, everyone fell for it. So where would be the last place you would look for God? Where demons lie, especially if he was pretending to be a demon. Who would think he'd pretend to be one?

    The more I think about the this the more I think thats the route they are taking.

    Venkman90 on
  • cabsycabsy the fattest rainbow unicorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Christianity is pretty well known for just borrowing or flat out stealing shit, so that's sort of why I differentiated between existing and becoming a Horseman of the apocalypse; Death would have existed way before that, but wouldn't have had the horseman of the apocalypse title until Christian mythology came up with the idea. I didn't think 'brothers' was a literal thing, more like the way members of the military or religious groups or really any closely-tied group with a shared purpose call each other brothers and sisters. Plus War/Famine/Plague could never be equal to Death, because everything they're famed for just gives Death more business. Death is sort of like the parent company of the apocalypse.

    I think they didn't want to spend too much time on them, because they have so much shit to jam in this season and because people are already going YAWN, ANGELS AND THE DEVIL AND GOD, CAN WE MOVE ON, which is really unfortunate because the horsemen are one of my favorite myths surrounding the apocalypse.

    cabsy on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    cabsy wrote: »
    Christianity is pretty well known for just borrowing or flat out stealing shit, so that's sort of why I differentiated between existing and becoming a Horseman of the apocalypse; Death would have existed way before that, but wouldn't have had the horseman of the apocalypse title until Christian mythology came up with the idea. I didn't think 'brothers' was a literal thing, more like the way members of the military or religious groups or really any closely-tied group with a shared purpose call each other brothers and sisters. Plus War/Famine/Plague could never be equal to Death, because everything they're famed for just gives Death more business. Death is sort of like the parent company of the apocalypse.

    I think they didn't want to spend too much time on them, because they have so much shit to jam in this season and because people are already going YAWN, ANGELS AND THE DEVIL AND GOD, CAN WE MOVE ON, which is really unfortunate because the horsemen are one of my favorite myths surrounding the apocalypse.

    But that goes back to my complaint about all the time wasting done this season, the demi-god devil child, the witch boy, etc. Stuff that has served no purpose towards the ultimate end when those episodes could've been elaboration about Lucifer and Michael or the Horsemen or God or Castiel or any number of things people watching want to know.

    Bear in mind we've waited for death since the half-season break and thats it, into, meeting and presumably a short cameo next episode when he is freed. Its hardly representative of the whole effort Lucifer went to to raise him in the first place and the concealment of his identity for so long.

    DarkWarrior on
  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Man, Death stole the fuckin episode. The other horsemen let me down, they were cool, but they got knocked off a bit to easily. Pestilence is a bitch btw.

    But Death made up for his brother's shortcomings, the actor NAILED it, one of those moments where you get so caught up in the moment it's like your really there. Dean also sold the hell out of it, I don't think Death would have come off as perfectly if Dean didn't seem so fuckin terrified.

    I think it would be AMAZING if Death was the main drive behind next season, maybe by freeing him they unlock something worse then Lucifer. I mean, Death was so intimidating I think he's pretty much the only thing that can top the devil.

    His speech about the universe and killing god was epic. He pretty much implied he's been to other universes... can you imagine sitting infront of a power like that?

    PS- Bobby got his legs back! FUCKIN 'bout damn time! Bobby is da man!

    Wishpig on
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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Id have asked him for three wishes/.

    DarkWarrior on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Ive also got to call out the stupidity of their plan. Dean has BEEN to a future where Sam said Yes and it did not end well for Future Dean. Where was Sam to hold him back then?

    DarkWarrior on
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Man, Death stole the fuckin episode. The other horsemen let me down, they were cool, but they got knocked off a bit to easily. Pestilence is a bitch btw.

    But Death made up for his brother's shortcomings, the actor NAILED it, one of those moments where you get so caught up in the moment it's like your really there. Dean also sold the hell out of it, I don't think Death would have come off as perfectly if Dean didn't seem so fuckin terrified.

    I think it would be AMAZING if Death was the main drive behind next season, maybe by freeing him they unlock something worse then Lucifer. I mean, Death was so intimidating I think he's pretty much the only thing that can top the devil.

    His speech about the universe and killing god was epic. He pretty much implied he's been to other universes... can you imagine sitting infront of a power like that?

    PS- Bobby got his legs back! FUCKIN 'bout damn time! Bobby is da man!

    Why would Death be be the big bad next season?

    To him such little things like Lucifer is doing is beneath him, as he pointed out this was just one planet in one galaxy and to him people were like dust basically.

    He's beyond being a bad guy, he's something else entirely.

    Cade on
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Ive also got to call out the stupidity of their plan. Dean has BEEN to a future where Sam said Yes and it did not end well for Future Dean. Where was Sam to hold him back then?

    Do we know that was the actual future and not Zachariah engineering a situation to push Dean towards saying yes to Michael?

    You basically can't trust anything the angels have said on this show.

    Reznik on
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