[Supernatural]: This is why we can't have nice things, Sam.

13468994

Posts

  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited May 2010
    Damn, you're probably right. Oh well.

    So, how about them Supernaturals?

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • takyristakyris Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Am I alone in not being wowed by the ending?
    Loved Cas, and I think that the basic brother dynamic worked -- I finally believed they trusted each other enough to have that work out.

    Thought that we have an appropriate followup to the weakass Season Four finale-fight of "Dean bangs on a door" with "Sam grabs Michael by the sleeve and falls into a hole." They were doing so well, with Molotov cocktails and epic beatdowns, and then it turned into a bad CG falling effect.

    I'm glad that they didn't put Michael in Dean. Dean as Dean was really good here.

    While on a meta-level I can understand that having Crowley present would just mean we had another character to worry about, I had no idea why the old sod buggered off. Not fighting on the front ranks? Sure. Disappearing entirely despite his oh-so-personal stake in the game, though?

    I got that Lucifer was fucking with Sam, but it seemed like kind of a one-shot deal -- I'm not sure what I'd have cut to make room for more, but it didn't really seem to go anywhere. Sam didn't poke any holes in Lucifer, Lucifer didn't poke any holes in Sam. Nothing at the end of that scene was different for me. I don't know why it was there. I'd have rather Lucifer take ownership for bringing Sam here through an endless bunch of demons-poking-Sam-to-evil instead of pawning it off on Azazel, who was, you know, doing what Lucifer said to do.

    The Impala felt forced. It didn't feel wrong, entirely, just forced. Like, if they'd just cut to the montage instead of trying so damn hard to remind us that the Impala was important, I think it would have worked as well, and it wouldn't have felt like another OH BY THE WAY THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE BOYS' LIVES, like Dean's new old girlfriend. (At least unlike the girlfriend, I can believe in the Impala.

    And wow wow wow did I hate the entire framing concept of Chuck. If people here are right and he got raptured to heaven, that's a step in the right direction, because my thought when I saw it was that he was God, and man, having your authorial insertion character actually be God and explain that endings are hard and fans will be disappointed and IN CASE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE IT THIS WAS ABOUT FAMILY was so so so so bad. It's entirely possible that this, like "good fight scenes", is not actually something that is objectively bad but is just a matter of personal taste that weighs particularly heavily for me, because holy crap did I hate that.

    It ultimately felt very very good with one element that really soured it for me.

    takyris on
    Dox the PI wrote:
    takyris, Greek God of blowing shit up.
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I thought it was good.
    Definitely a few surprises. Cas getting killed and Bobby too certainly proved the rumors that someone was going to die but getting a two for one deal surprised me. Until they got brought back, figured this was going to lead into the whole Crowley has Bobby's soul deal for next season. Some things came off better then other parts but overall it wasn't too bad, definitely going to be one of those episodes some say was a bad ending while others enjoyed it, already seen some comparing it to the ending for BSG in a negative way.

    Was Chuck God? All signs point to yes at this point, though prophets did vanish when their work was done so it can be said he was just a prophet yet depending on how they go with things next season. If they decide to touch on it that is.

    I had to laugh a bit at how Kripke said via Chuck that endings were tough and there would still be holes and fans would bitch and moan. Well he was right there, fans are definitely bitching and moaning big time. Many about the whole Lisa thing, some for the reason it wasn't done the best and others because OMFG GOD THEY'RE PUTTING DEAN WITH A FEMALE KILL HER.

    For those people they might be in luck, with another season Dean is likely going to end up having two more deaths happen to deal with. Shades of Sam ala season one maybe?

    Some are asking if Sam was still possessed or if it was just him at the end. Who knows, could go any way. For all we know the light blinking at the end could have been him being ported there by a power be it God or otherwise. Considering his expression I'm betting it was just ol Sammy boy, he saw that Dean finally had a normal life, maybe the life that he once wanted and knows he can't just rip it away from him so he might just bugger off not telling anyone he's alive and continuing on the family business until next season when it's time to reunite. Again.

    Cade on
  • smeejsmeej Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Sam's Mark Pelligrino face was amazing.

    smeej on
    IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    One thing I really liked
    They actually had Dean's face get all fucked up an swollen when Samifer beat the shit out of him, instead of the usual 'random cuts and blood and there's always that one cut above the eyebrow no matter what'. It looked right brutal.

    Also any time Jared gets to beat people up is fun. Dude gets his ass kicked on the show way too much for a guy so sasquatch-like.

    Reznik on
    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Loved it.

    Warcry on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Re: Chuck (from the Wiki)
    Chuck smiles after finishing his narration of the story just before vannishing, suggesting that he was God's vessel(This, however, should seem unlikely as Dean's amullet was supposed to glow in God's presence and Dean had it on when he, Castiel and Sam first met Chuck, therefore ruling out the possibility of him being God or God's vessel)

    Venkman90 on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I preferred Pellegrino as Satan to Sam, honestly.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • mister tuxedomister tuxedo Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Sam did a decent job, but Pellegrino does a better lucifer.
    Under the Lampost at the the end... I was so angry. Season six, I will not anticipate.

    mister tuxedo on
    Digital Illusions Creative Entertainment/ PO Box 20068/ 104 60 Stockholm/ Sweden
    Send them a Pair of Running Shoes. Used or Otherwise. Or a letter, but let's not be formulaic. Send them a picture of trainers, too. Or a painting. Or money. Whatever.
  • RennRenn Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Apparently I'm alone in thinking the ending sucked.

    Renn on
  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Regarding Chuck:
    Did anyone see who he was on the phone to when we first saw him this episode?
    Mistress (Mary) Magda(lene). Dean's quip about Virgin Hooker...
    Chuck is Jesus.

    Warcry on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Warcry wrote: »
    Regarding Chuck:
    Did anyone see who he was on the phone to when we first saw him this episode?
    Mistress (Mary) Magda(lene). Dean's quip about Virgin Hooker...
    Chuck is Jesus.
    aaahhhh...you might be onto something there

    Venkman90 on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Renn wrote: »
    Apparently I'm alone in thinking the ending sucked.

    That may be a safe bet.....

    Aeolusdallas on
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sam did a decent job, but Pellegrino does a better lucifer.
    Under the Lampost at the the end... I was so angry. Season six, I will not anticipate.
    Did... did you think they wouldn't bring Sam back somehow, or...?

    Reznik on
    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Warcry wrote: »
    Regarding Chuck:
    Did anyone see who he was on the phone to when we first saw him this episode?
    Mistress (Mary) Magda(lene). Dean's quip about Virgin Hooker...
    Chuck is Jesus.

    Holy shit, that makes a ton of sense.
    Ascending into Heaven? Writing the next "Gospel" (I know Jesus didn't write the originals, but the Gospels are about him), God being somewhere on Earth, Chuck looking like Jesus.

    I don't think they'll ever explicitly say that, but it all adds up.

    Lynx on
  • Guitar Hero Of TimeGuitar Hero Of Time Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    takyris wrote: »
    Am I alone in not being wowed by the ending?
    Loved Cas, and I think that the basic brother dynamic worked -- I finally believed they trusted each other enough to have that work out.

    Thought that we have an appropriate followup to the weakass Season Four finale-fight of "Dean bangs on a door" with "Sam grabs Michael by the sleeve and falls into a hole." They were doing so well, with Molotov cocktails and epic beatdowns, and then it turned into a bad CG falling effect.

    I'm glad that they didn't put Michael in Dean. Dean as Dean was really good here.

    While on a meta-level I can understand that having Crowley present would just mean we had another character to worry about, I had no idea why the old sod buggered off. Not fighting on the front ranks? Sure. Disappearing entirely despite his oh-so-personal stake in the game, though?

    I got that Lucifer was fucking with Sam, but it seemed like kind of a one-shot deal -- I'm not sure what I'd have cut to make room for more, but it didn't really seem to go anywhere. Sam didn't poke any holes in Lucifer, Lucifer didn't poke any holes in Sam. Nothing at the end of that scene was different for me. I don't know why it was there. I'd have rather Lucifer take ownership for bringing Sam here through an endless bunch of demons-poking-Sam-to-evil instead of pawning it off on Azazel, who was, you know, doing what Lucifer said to do.

    The Impala felt forced. It didn't feel wrong, entirely, just forced. Like, if they'd just cut to the montage instead of trying so damn hard to remind us that the Impala was important, I think it would have worked as well, and it wouldn't have felt like another OH BY THE WAY THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE BOYS' LIVES, like Dean's new old girlfriend. (At least unlike the girlfriend, I can believe in the Impala.

    And wow wow wow did I hate the entire framing concept of Chuck. If people here are right and he got raptured to heaven, that's a step in the right direction, because my thought when I saw it was that he was God, and man, having your authorial insertion character actually be God and explain that endings are hard and fans will be disappointed and IN CASE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE IT THIS WAS ABOUT FAMILY was so so so so bad. It's entirely possible that this, like "good fight scenes", is not actually something that is objectively bad but is just a matter of personal taste that weighs particularly heavily for me, because holy crap did I hate that.

    It ultimately felt very very good with one element that really soured it for me.

    You have summed up my feelings exactly.

    Guitar Hero Of Time on
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I liked everything that did not involve Chuck.

    Professor Phobos on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Just caught this episode (screw you Space channel for airing "New episodes" a week behind; thank you a bunch iTunes):
    The music choice for Dean's ride to the battlefield was brilliant, just brilliant.

    I'm really not sold on Adam as the actor for Michael. I realize that were it not him it'd be Dean, but with the actor they brought in for Lucifer (who was much better than Sam for me in portraying him), it would have been nice for a better temp-vessel for Michael that put a similar amount of Awe through character portrayal. Michael felt too young.

    I wish Crowley was at least in the episode. I can see him not being anywhere near the actual battle or Lucifer but I thought they'd have at least some of his wit to work off.

    I'm curious though, what happens to the four rings? Does Dean/Bobby give them back to the Horsemen? Does Death get his back?

    Loved the episode. Strong finale and have no idea what's going to happen for Season 6.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited May 2010
    Rings
    Death could probably just take his if he wanted it back, but I figure the other three horsemen won't show up again. Dunno if the rings will play a part in next season, but if not, I figure they'll probably scatter them or destroy them to make sure nobody else can open the prison.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    If he hadn't wasted time on stupid episodes then he probably COULD have wrapped everything up instead of bitching about how the fans bitch that he couldn't wrap everything up because he wasted so much time on stupid episodes.

    To finish it off he had to ignore everything else, Crowley, Death, all manner of things that were it not getting a 6th season would make that a terrible, terrible finale.

    As it stands, because it is getting a 6th season its tolerable because hopefully shit will be sorted out then instead.

    It was an ok episode but underwhelming in all manner of ways.

    DarkWarrior on
  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Is Castiel an archangel now? If that's at all possible. He seemed pretty intent on fixing things upstairs. It seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

    Tlex on
  • TeaSpoonTeaSpoon Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I agree that Chuck was translated into heaven (which is a word I like better than "raptured"), which is to say, he entered heaven without dying first.

    TeaSpoon on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Im kinda chuffed with how easily ignored Adam was. Wasn't even mentioned by Dean afterwards. As it should be.

    DarkWarrior on
  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Loved it! Fucking loved it! What a ballsy way to end the show. It was dark, depressing, and as real as something like this could possibly be. I would have preferred them to have stretched it across two episodes as it did feel somewhat rushed, but that doesn't change the fact I thought it was amazing.
    Im kinda chuffed with how easily ignored Adam was. Wasn't even mentioned by Dean afterwards. As it should be.

    Ya... this (along with the crappy special effects of them falling into the hole, talk about a mood killer!) was my two huge peeves with this episode. Poor Adam was a normal dude who had no role in any of this and got a one way ticket to hell! And yet no mention. Mah, w/e, ain't a perfect ending but I still think it was a damn good one.

    Wishpig on
    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    622545-8-1261525714230.jpg

    Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    I agree that Chuck was translated into heaven (which is a word I like better than "raptured"), which is to say, he entered heaven without dying first.

    The word you're looking for is "assumpted."

    As in, Mary, mother of Jesus, was assumpted into heaven.




    I like the theory that Chuck is Jesus. That's pretty cool.

    SniperGuy on
    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • WishpigWishpig Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Gotta say one thing I LOVE about the episode if Cas and Bobby vs Satan...

    Great acting on both their ends, from Cas's "uhh... no" to Bobby's "well, I'm fucked" shrug, you knew they knew they both signed their death warrants as soon as they took action. Very powerful stuff.

    Very curious to see if Bobby's soul is still in question. It seems like god has their back, and I'm guessing freeing Bobby's soul is really no different or difficult then bringing Dean back from hell or making Cas an angel again... and he certainly earned it.

    PS- Also, since Cas was brought back, maybe there is a chance we'll see Loki, errr Gabriel, back again. He made the "right" decision like Cas and was certainly no more dead or alive then Cas. But maybe that's just wishful thinking. Kinda sad that no one really got to witness how much he really cared about humanity, and how (if you ask me), he may have been the best out of all the angels.

    Wishpig on
    WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
    622545-8-1261525714230.jpg

    Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    I agree that Chuck was translated into heaven (which is a word I like better than "raptured"), which is to say, he entered heaven without dying first.

    The word you're looking for is "assumpted."

    As in, Mary, mother of Jesus, was assumpted into heaven.




    I like the theory that Chuck is Jesus. That's pretty cool.

    SPOILERS YA MUNG

    Warcry on
  • Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, I've had some time to mull over the ending, and I have to say that overall it was a very good, solid ending. Granted, there are points you could nit-pick at (some of which have already been pointed out, so I won't go there), but overall it was a suitable ending for a great series.

    Regarding highlights of the episode:
    I really liked the way they opened with the montage about the Impala. It really drove home the emotional weight and history between the brothers, and the idea that it was effectively their home for the last 5 years was strangely poignant.

    The opening dialogue between Lucifer and Michael was also nicely done. In particular Lucifer's appeal to Michael to "leave the chessboard" generated a surprising amount of sympathy with me. For a few moments at least, Lucifer seemed less monstrous than Michael which given the kind of reputation the devil carries is no mean feat.

    I also liked the fact that there was no cheap intervention from God, or an easy exit provided by supernatural forces. In the end, the fate of the world was decided by two regular, mortal human beings, and it felt right. The series ends with a world free from the dominion of either heaven or hell.

    Overall, I think the episode accomplishes what it was supposed to - provide closure on 5 years of good solid entertainment and memories for me. It wasn't a flashy ending, but it got the job done. I don't know if I could ask for more than that.

    Operative21 on
  • KronusKronus Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    People are still talking as if this was the series finale but this was not the series finale and was, in fact, a season finale.

    Unless you're British in which case it might be a series finale but that's just silly.

    Kronus on
  • MrIamMeMrIamMe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It was meant to be a series finale.

    MrIamMe on
  • KronusKronus Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yes but since it was renewed nearly three months ago, the episode ceased being the series finale and instead became a regular old season finale. Hence why I thought it was inappropriate to talk about how the series was finished. There have been at least a couple of people (seemingly) not in the know about next season.

    Kronus on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    No, I think a lot of us are believers in the "Kripke Five-Year Plan", and are treating this like the ending. Because it is. It's the finale to the last five years. This story is closed, concluded. Yes, there is a season six now, but I really don't care; to me, it's just a big epilogue, and I could care less if it's awesome or awful.

    The story has already been told.

    Houn on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kronus wrote: »
    People are still talking as if this was the series finale but this was not the series finale and was, in fact, a season finale.

    Unless you're British in which case it might be a series finale but that's just silly.

    Why's that then? it's not being shown here?

    Re: the end
    Chuck vanished in a way that suggests he has powers, if he was Jesus would he not be mortal? but then I don't buy him being God either, he was going to kill himself in S4, Zachariah was speaking to him like dirt...just doesn't feel right.

    If this was the series finale I doubt they would have left Sam in at the end, which was hard to read into, his face gave away nothing, is he evil now? how the fuck did he get out?

    One thing that got me, we never got a glimpse at how Lucifer and Micheal fighting each other in human body's was going to wipe out half the planet...I can imagine it in their actual forms, I get the image of two giant arcs of light and sound clashing across the planet, but two guys? how would that work?

    Venkman90 on
  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    One thing that got me, we never got a glimpse at how Lucifer and Micheal fighting each other in human body's was going to wipe out half the planet...I can imagine it in their actual forms, I get the image of two giant arcs of light and sound clashing across the planet, but two guys? how would that work?
    Probably what they do while trying to kill each other. Environmental changes, trying to boil each other, trying the freeze each other, trying to bury each other under hundreds of tonnes of earth, trying to fling each other into space, drown each other in lava, all manner of insane things.

    Warcry on
  • Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Venkman90 wrote:
    One thing that got me, we never got a glimpse at how Lucifer and Micheal fighting each other in human body's was going to wipe out half the planet...I can imagine it in their actual forms, I get the image of two giant arcs of light and sound clashing across the planet, but two guys? how would that work?

    I think they purposefully decided to leave that rather nebulous. When it comes to two cosmic entities like that, whatever they could visualize with special effects would probably disappoint us when compared to what our own imagined expectations of such a battle could be. Better to leave it to the imagination of the viewers I suspect. In any case, it's safe to say the two human bodies in question would just be conduits for the powers being employed in this case. I always got the impression that for whatever reason, angels and demons couldn't employ their full range of abilities on the mortal plane without having a host to channel their powers through.

    Operative21 on
  • AeolusdallasAeolusdallas Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Kronus wrote: »
    People are still talking as if this was the series finale but this was not the series finale and was, in fact, a season finale.

    Unless you're British in which case it might be a series finale but that's just silly.

    Why's that then? it's not being shown here?

    Re: the end
    Chuck vanished in a way that suggests he has powers, if he was Jesus would he not be mortal? but then I don't buy him being God either, he was going to kill himself in S4, Zachariah was speaking to him like dirt...just doesn't feel right.

    If this was the series finale I doubt they would have left Sam in at the end, which was hard to read into, his face gave away nothing, is he evil now? how the fuck did he get out?

    One thing that got me, we never got a glimpse at how Lucifer and Micheal fighting each other in human body's was going to wipe out half the planet...I can imagine it in their actual forms, I get the image of two giant arcs of light and sound clashing across the planet, but two guys? how would that work?

    I think he is making fun of that silly habit Brits have of referring to seasons as series. What I want to know is if you call seasons series, what the hell do you call series?

    Aeolusdallas on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Wishpig wrote: »
    Loved it! Fucking loved it! What a ballsy way to end the show. It was dark, depressing, and as real as something like this could possibly be. I would have preferred them to have stretched it across two episodes as it did feel somewhat rushed, but that doesn't change the fact I thought it was amazing.
    Im kinda chuffed with how easily ignored Adam was. Wasn't even mentioned by Dean afterwards. As it should be.

    Ya... this (along with the crappy special effects of them falling into the hole, talk about a mood killer!) was my two huge peeves with this episode. Poor Adam was a normal dude who had no role in any of this and got a one way ticket to hell! And yet no mention. Mah, w/e, ain't a perfect ending but I still think it was a damn good one.

    No I was being serious, I hate that character, I hate that he was brought back, I hate that after the last episode he was in he still went ahead and said 'Yes', I hate that it somehow worked when it was Dean's destiny and I'm so, so happy hes burning in Hell and was completely ignored by Dean because thats how it should be.

    I hate him more than Bella. That's how bad he is. Though random perfect love interest for Dean is racking up miles.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Kronus wrote: »
    People are still talking as if this was the series finale but this was not the series finale and was, in fact, a season finale.

    Unless you're British in which case it might be a series finale but that's just silly.

    Why's that then? it's not being shown here?

    Re: the end
    Chuck vanished in a way that suggests he has powers, if he was Jesus would he not be mortal? but then I don't buy him being God either, he was going to kill himself in S4, Zachariah was speaking to him like dirt...just doesn't feel right.

    If this was the series finale I doubt they would have left Sam in at the end, which was hard to read into, his face gave away nothing, is he evil now? how the fuck did he get out?

    One thing that got me, we never got a glimpse at how Lucifer and Micheal fighting each other in human body's was going to wipe out half the planet...I can imagine it in their actual forms, I get the image of two giant arcs of light and sound clashing across the planet, but two guys? how would that work?

    I think he is making fun of that silly habit Brits have of referring to seasons as series. What I want to know is if you call seasons series, what the hell do you call series?

    Ah,

    Series 4 of the Wire for example?

    We call Seasons Series and we call Series by their names I guess, Dr Who series 3 for example, it's a show on TV, I don't feel we are missing a word out ;)

    Edit: although since the internet me and many friends who converse with Americans daily have started calling them Seasons now...

    Venkman90 on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    Brits also have a silly habit of showing all the episodes of a series without breaking for sports or cancelling them half way through.

    We are awesome for TV basically.

    DarkWarrior on
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Chuck vanished in a way that suggests he has powers, if he was Jesus would he not be mortal? but then I don't buy him being God either, he was going to kill himself in S4, Zachariah was speaking to him like dirt...just doesn't feel right.
    Jesus ascended into Heaven after his resurrection, according to Scripture. Hence further speculation that Chuck was meant to be Jesus.

    Lynx on
Sign In or Register to comment.