As a side note, it's awfully morbid that Dean finally gets his happy family wish granted when he's far too messed up and broken to enjoy it. I mean, I really don't see him coming back from all that anytime soon.
Plus thats meant to wrap up the ancient battle between Heaven and Hell? The battle the boys were born for?
Except oop, replacement found.
It would've made a fine penultimate episode of the series, but not a finale. Imagine if that was literally the end of the series with Dean hooking up with random girl who I literally cannot remember despite having followed this series from the start, thats how insignificant she is to us and the show.
And thats ignoring all the little questions just from Lucifer like why he had to leash Death when hes a Horseman and has a role to play or the presence and yet absence of God.
DarkWarrior, did you miss the whole "No, fuck your little war, get the hell out of our backyard with that" thing going on this season? The point where the cast keeps raising the notion that, hey, this entire "war" is is prophetic BS that one side is too powerhungry and father issues to give up and the other side is too damn invested in "the prophesied destiny" to give up on?
The point that the end result was exactly what the cast was aiming for? That whole "no, let's not let Michael and Lucifer wreck the entire planet in their petty little family feud" thing?
And honestly, I'd have been fine with that ending. Despite rarely ever seeing a rerun, let alone her premier episode, I remembered for the most part who she was, and what her past with Dean was. They only thing they'd have to change would be to make the bit with Sam more of a close than a teaser for S6.
Basically Lanz, if this was really part of a 5 year master plan, its not very flattering to its planner. The end battle with Azazeal was more impressive and finale-like than this was, it gave closer to their dad, their big cross-season struggle, etc, etc without any shoed-in love interests.
You can say you remember her but if some do and some don't, you've not done a good job of presenting her as a valid love interest, especially when the guy never sees her and yet they both seem to be just hanging around for each other, except Dean who taps any ass that comes along. Its bad storytelling and its not what Ive come to expect from this series.
There was also no exploration of Dean's 'emptiness' or even any downside to Sam chugging all that D-Blood or reasoning why he had to when Dean and Adam wouldn't have had to do the same.
The thing with Sam breaking free of Lucifer, well fuck him overpowering Lucifer, but it at least didn't feel cheesy and was probably the highligt of the episode, but the rest was all just the culmination of what was a very weak season, probably the weakest since series 1 and it showed, badly.
She's not from the genie episode (which took place before Dean had reconnected with her). Dean dreams of having a picnic lunch with her in "Dream a Little Dream of Me."
I'm pretty sure she was lying about her son not being Deans. Ben is totally Dean's son. I'm pretty sure Dean's attachment to Lisa is less about her and more about what she and her son represent
You know what's been bugging me about the finale. Cas's somewhat throw away (in that they didn't elaborate on it anymore) line of
"it has to end where it began." What happened in that random midwest grave yard? and when?
It wasn't the graveyard. It was the town the graveyard was outside of.
Wichita... and for the importance of that town, just watch the first episode of the series again.
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
You know what's been bugging me about the finale. Cas's somewhat throw away (in that they didn't elaborate on it anymore) line of
"it has to end where it began." What happened in that random midwest grave yard? and when?
Isn't it the graveyard where the door to hell was opened, and the yellow eyed demon was killed.
That graveyard was in Wyoming.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I don't believe there was any master five year plan, the show originally was all about making mini monster movies basically. That was what they wanted to do until they changed it up to demons and all, I don't for a moment believe Lucifer and a war with heaven was ever on the table until they started to plan for it those very seasons.
I don't believe there was any master five year plan, the show originally was all about making mini monster movies basically. That was what they wanted to do until they changed it up to demons and all, I don't for a moment believe Lucifer and a war with heaven was ever on the table until they started to plan for it those very seasons.
The writers have said as much in interviews. I've never seen anything about a master plan from them, just that Kripke wanted to end the show with a major storyline after five seasons because he and the cast were ready to move on.
When they decided to go the extra season, Kripke chose to wrap up his loose ends and clear the decks for the next showrunner.
It wouldn't be hard to set up! They wouldn't even have to pay her actress any extra. Just have Sam catch Dean texting her here and there when he thought Sam wasn't looking. Something to imply that she wasn't just one of the gazillion girls he's picked up across the series. Or that he actually still thought about her/was serious about her/etc.
Right now, at best, she's just Random Girl Who Symbolizes a Normal Life. I mean, they could swap her actress entirely and I bet at least half the audience wouldn't notice.
She's not just some random girl. She was someone he actually cared for, and spent the entire episode thinking the kid was his (I'm still of the opinion he is, and she just said otherwise so he didn't feel obligated to stay). The entire episode setting her up was to show Dean he had something to live for and a reason to fight and save himself from hell.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Okay, I won't really comment on the awesome that was the finale, but I honestly wish they would have wrapped it up with five seasons, even if I am really excited to see more winchesters, expecially classic winchesters.
It kind of bugged me, because it was clearly obvious that this was meant to be a series finale. They wrapped up all of the loose ends and everything was amazing. One of the best series endings I've ever seen, but then, halfway through the season, they get greenlit for another, and it's obvious that they had to go in and change everything. I'm guessing that they were supposed to shoot a minute or two of the bobby/crowley deal getting finished, and Sam was obviously never supposed to come back, and that's the end, but then they just left bobby hanging, and brought back sam, just to tell us "hey, it'll be back guys!" and It just felt like a forced tag on to what was already perfect.
Also, Lucifer looking at Cass and saying "did you just kill my brother with holy fire?" and Cass getting all nervous before one of the goriest explosions the series has ever had was my favorite moment.
Of course, given Castiel's comments on the chaos in heaven, I imagine the civil war going on in hell right now is probably even worse.
Plus most of the important ones probably didn't even want the apocalypse to begin with, so.
I want Kali to turn up again, I like that actress and she's my favourite Hindu deity
Maybe the rank and file demons worshipped Lucifer, but the higher-level ones probably followed him in large part due to fear. We've seen the level of ambition of the higher-level demons. I doubt they're too broken up over Lucifer failing to make the apocalypse happen. If anything, many of them are probably secretly happy that Dean and Sam took him out of the picture.
It would be neat if the next season focused on the fallout from God and Lucifer being out of the picture. Maybe end the whole series with Dean and Sam figuring out a way to finally remove the various gods from human affairs.
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a being capable of levelling a city and teleporting anywhere in creation and, presumably, lifting really heavy stuff can't keep his balance when he's falling. Or, you know, teleport. Himself or others.
Like, really. How bizarre and anticlimactic.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Oh, and it ignores the fact that every demon in existence would be intent on tearing out Dean's guts for what hes done.
I don't know. Dean helped take out Lucifer, the baddest baddass there is. At this point, the demons are probably scared of him.
Of course, given Castiel's comments on the chaos in heaven, I imagine the civil war going on in hell right now is probably even worse.
Dean was only able to take out Lucifer because he was in Sam though. He did nothing as far as fighting, save for the years of demon hunting and the horsemen. I'm sure a lot of them are scared, but most of them could still take him one on one. He got bailed out a lot by his supporting cast.
Oh, and it ignores the fact that every demon in existence would be intent on tearing out Dean's guts for what hes done.
I don't know. Dean helped take out Lucifer, the baddest baddass there is. At this point, the demons are probably scared of him.
Of course, given Castiel's comments on the chaos in heaven, I imagine the civil war going on in hell right now is probably even worse.
Dean was only able to take out Lucifer because he was in Sam though. He did nothing as far as fighting, save for the years of demon hunting and the horsemen. I'm sure a lot of them are scared, but most of them could still take him one on one. He got bailed out a lot by his supporting cast.
Dean is practically invisible to demons and angels, though.
But weren't the boys using hex bags to hide from the demons for a while now?
I think that's just when Dean was being chased in Season 3. They've used them a few more times here and there though, but I don't think it's a regular thing.
You know, that's one thing Supernatural never really delved into much, was witches and warlocks. There was the scarecrow episode which kind of dealt with it a little, and the lady that was controlling a reaper in season 2, but it would be cool to see some uber powerful witch that knew all of the demon/angel hexes and spells and basically used them as a weapon.
Imagine that as a season finale villain. Some powerful evil doer that had a reaper, a lesser angel, maybe even a demigod in his/her corner to do the fighting.
Edit: after thinking on this, there was the guy doing the same thing with the travelling poker game, so I guess it's been done a few times now.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
I think that's just when Dean was being chased in Season 3. They've used them a few more times here and there though, but I don't think it's a regular thing.
Actually, Crowley specifically mentions that their hex bags won't confuse him - implying they do use them regularly.
If two nobody hunters can find and kill both of them in a random hotel then the demonic denizens of Hell can and should find Dean at the random love interests house quite easily.
To be fair the boys work in hunter circles so they probably interacted with someone another hunter knew and got found that way. I mean before that they didn't have to hide from any hunters so why worry about them.
I'm not feeling the creepy stare through the window.
Like... just showing the light going out and him showing up somewhere would have been fine. But, looking through the window like a child molester was a bit too anvily, even for my jar-head.
To be fair the boys work in hunter circles so they probably interacted with someone another hunter knew and got found that way. I mean before that they didn't have to hide from any hunters so why worry about them.
Hunters get possessed all the time, point is they would ultimately find Dean and tear his spine out through his ass.
And this is all ignoring that anti-christ with more power than a fucking Angel who is roaming around freely.
Anyone else anxious about how they're (the writers) going to treat Dean now?
they're going to need to bring him back into the fight, which means breaking him and Lisa up, and dissolving the family he had always wanted. This finale would have been perfect as a series finale for Dean, as you have him finally hanging up his hat, he's got what he's always wanted, he can finally settle down - his hunting days are over.
But now to bring him back into the fray they'll need to either: a) kill off Lisa and the kid; b) start the season at some point after Dean's left them, realizing he wasn't meant for that kind of family life and couldn't cope; c) Dean's been kicked out; d) Dean abandons them to either: i) return to find them dead/gone/they don't want him back; ii) welcome him back and this season's finale is repeated, except Sam will likely be around to see it; iii) never return to them again.
For any of those scenarios to play out would be irksome because it's been built up since season 3 that what he's finally got now is what he's always wanted. It'll be even worse if they pull the old "what you want isn't always what you need" angle, and how he'll always be a hunter at heart, unable to settle down.
I thought it was a wonderful season finale and as long as
They didn't have Sam come back
it would have been an excellent series finale.
In addition, Death is the coolest thing evar. All of my dicks, you know.
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"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
God damn, i know Im a few days behind. I'm stuck in BC on a buisness training center for a few weeks, but damn this finale was good. Cas blowing up just got a draw dropping burst of laughter yet horror shock outta me I didn't know how to react. The episode with the narrative was great. I don't get all the nit picking.
I just really have no idea where this is going to go. If its ghost sam in the car, i'm gonna be PISSED. Its to much of a throw away after that 5 season arc that seemed to come together so well whether it was planned or not.
I thought it was a wonderful season finale and as long as
They didn't have Sam come back
it would have been an excellent series finale.
In addition, Death is the coolest thing evar. All of my dicks, you know.
I do love how the finale could have worked either way; it's fairly obvious (to me) that this is (for the most part) the exact same finale we'd have gotten if no season 6 was coming...
...except with Sam staying dead, and maybe Cas and/or Bobby staying dead.
Like, that final scene felt like a series finale...but with that minor tweak it works as an excellent setup for the next season.
I've said it before, but I really really wanna know what changes they made to finale after getting the extension. I know a lot of people will say the final shot was an add-on, but I think it works as a series end.
I've said it before, but I really really wanna know what changes they made to finale after getting the extension. I know a lot of people will say the final shot was an add-on, but I think it works as a series end.
Oh, it could work as a series end as well. I just think it's less likely.
SUPERNATURAL: Season six will be a season of mystery and shadow. Heaven and Hell have been left in complete disarray since the apocalyptic events of season five. And now, monsters, angels and demons roam across a lawless and chaotic landscape. And so Dean Winchester, who has retired from hunting and sworn never to return, finds himself being pulled back into his old life – pulled back by none other than Sam Winchester, who has escaped from Hell. The two reunite to beat back the rising tide of creatures and demon-spawn, but they quickly realize that neither are who they used to be, their relationship isn’t what it used to be, and that nothing is what it seems.
BTW the show is moving to Fridays for next season.
SUPERNATURAL: Season six will be a season of mystery and shadow. Heaven and Hell have been left in complete disarray since the apocalyptic events of season five. And now, monsters, angels and demons roam across a lawless and chaotic landscape. And so Dean Winchester, who has retired from hunting and sworn never to return, finds himself being pulled back into his old life – pulled back by none other than Sam Winchester, who has escaped from Hell. The two reunite to beat back the rising tide of creatures and demon-spawn, but they quickly realize that neither are who they used to be, their relationship isn’t what it used to be, and that nothing is what it seems.
BTW the show is moving to Fridays for next season.
Thats a VERY big spoiler for the next seasons premier episode. I hope I can forget it before then.
To be fair the boys work in hunter circles so they probably interacted with someone another hunter knew and got found that way. I mean before that they didn't have to hide from any hunters so why worry about them.
I always found it strange that the hunters were so disorganized. Seems like there's a decent number of them out there, but they tend to operate alone or as duos and don't have any way to share information or co-ordinate efforts.
Granted, a lot of them seem like borderline psychopaths, but you'd think some of the more sane ones would see the benefits of working together more often, sharing information and the like. Heck, just keep in touch via e-mail and have a central database so you can easily look up what you're hunting.
Other than the roadhouse, we've never seen anything that resembled an organization of hunters.
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Steam ID: Good Life
Basically Lanz, if this was really part of a 5 year master plan, its not very flattering to its planner. The end battle with Azazeal was more impressive and finale-like than this was, it gave closer to their dad, their big cross-season struggle, etc, etc without any shoed-in love interests.
You can say you remember her but if some do and some don't, you've not done a good job of presenting her as a valid love interest, especially when the guy never sees her and yet they both seem to be just hanging around for each other, except Dean who taps any ass that comes along. Its bad storytelling and its not what Ive come to expect from this series.
The thing with Sam breaking free of Lucifer, well fuck him overpowering Lucifer, but it at least didn't feel cheesy and was probably the highligt of the episode, but the rest was all just the culmination of what was a very weak season, probably the weakest since series 1 and it showed, badly.
I'm pretty sure she was lying about her son not being Deans. Ben is totally Dean's son. I'm pretty sure Dean's attachment to Lisa is less about her and more about what she and her son represent
Steam ID: Good Life
Wichita... and for the importance of that town, just watch the first episode of the series again.
Isn't it the graveyard where the door to hell was opened, and the yellow eyed demon was killed.
Dammit. I told my wife right before we started the finale that we should watch the first episode again and she said she didn't want to.
Steam ID: Good Life
That graveyard was in Wyoming.
Steam ID: Good Life
The writers have said as much in interviews. I've never seen anything about a master plan from them, just that Kripke wanted to end the show with a major storyline after five seasons because he and the cast were ready to move on.
When they decided to go the extra season, Kripke chose to wrap up his loose ends and clear the decks for the next showrunner.
Also, Lucifer looking at Cass and saying "did you just kill my brother with holy fire?" and Cass getting all nervous before one of the goriest explosions the series has ever had was my favorite moment.
..."um.... yeah?" BOOM!
Of course, given Castiel's comments on the chaos in heaven, I imagine the civil war going on in hell right now is probably even worse.
Rigorous Scholarship
Plus most of the important ones probably didn't even want the apocalypse to begin with, so.
I want Kali to turn up again, I like that actress and she's my favourite Hindu deity
It would be neat if the next season focused on the fallout from God and Lucifer being out of the picture. Maybe end the whole series with Dean and Sam figuring out a way to finally remove the various gods from human affairs.
Rigorous Scholarship
Like, really. How bizarre and anticlimactic.
Steam ID: Good Life
Although to lesser demons at least he is resistant to being possessed because of the tattoo.
Steam ID: Good Life
I think that's just when Dean was being chased in Season 3. They've used them a few more times here and there though, but I don't think it's a regular thing.
You know, that's one thing Supernatural never really delved into much, was witches and warlocks. There was the scarecrow episode which kind of dealt with it a little, and the lady that was controlling a reaper in season 2, but it would be cool to see some uber powerful witch that knew all of the demon/angel hexes and spells and basically used them as a weapon.
Imagine that as a season finale villain. Some powerful evil doer that had a reaper, a lesser angel, maybe even a demigod in his/her corner to do the fighting.
Edit: after thinking on this, there was the guy doing the same thing with the travelling poker game, so I guess it's been done a few times now.
Actually, Crowley specifically mentions that their hex bags won't confuse him - implying they do use them regularly.
Should being the operative word.
Like... just showing the light going out and him showing up somewhere would have been fine. But, looking through the window like a child molester was a bit too anvily, even for my jar-head.
Hunters get possessed all the time, point is they would ultimately find Dean and tear his spine out through his ass.
And this is all ignoring that anti-christ with more power than a fucking Angel who is roaming around freely.
But now to bring him back into the fray they'll need to either: a) kill off Lisa and the kid; b) start the season at some point after Dean's left them, realizing he wasn't meant for that kind of family life and couldn't cope; c) Dean's been kicked out; d) Dean abandons them to either: i) return to find them dead/gone/they don't want him back; ii) welcome him back and this season's finale is repeated, except Sam will likely be around to see it; iii) never return to them again.
For any of those scenarios to play out would be irksome because it's been built up since season 3 that what he's finally got now is what he's always wanted. It'll be even worse if they pull the old "what you want isn't always what you need" angle, and how he'll always be a hunter at heart, unable to settle down.
Interview with Jensen, there be spoilers here
it would have been an excellent series finale.
In addition, Death is the coolest thing evar. All of my dicks, you know.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I just really have no idea where this is going to go. If its ghost sam in the car, i'm gonna be PISSED. Its to much of a throw away after that 5 season arc that seemed to come together so well whether it was planned or not.
I do love how the finale could have worked either way; it's fairly obvious (to me) that this is (for the most part) the exact same finale we'd have gotten if no season 6 was coming...
Like, that final scene felt like a series finale...but with that minor tweak it works as an excellent setup for the next season.
Steam ID: Good Life
Oh, it could work as a series end as well. I just think it's less likely.
BTW the show is moving to Fridays for next season.
Thats a VERY big spoiler for the next seasons premier episode. I hope I can forget it before then.
MWO: Adamski
Granted, a lot of them seem like borderline psychopaths, but you'd think some of the more sane ones would see the benefits of working together more often, sharing information and the like. Heck, just keep in touch via e-mail and have a central database so you can easily look up what you're hunting.
Other than the roadhouse, we've never seen anything that resembled an organization of hunters.
Rigorous Scholarship