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Consumers To Apple: Fuck You

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Posts

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Avicus wrote: »
    I don't really understand all the whining... Don't like how the phone works? Don't think it is working properly? Take it back and get a refund. Problem solved. There is hardly any need for people to go on and on about this.

    Are you on the Apple PR team? You seem like it.

    "What, you got problems with the phone? Fuck off! We ain't puttin' a gun to youse heads or anything."

    Except that it's the truth. The antenna problem has been splashed across the front page of the New York Times for weeks, pretty much anybody looking to buy one or who has bought one should have been reasonably informed about it. He gave every last person the chance to return theirs, no restocking fee, no problem. Any future customers are free not to buy it.

    Oh, plus the free bumpers for those that decide to keep it.

    Condescending bullshit aside, their basically doing as much as they can be reasonably expected to do, unless you actually expected some kind of recall to fix the problem (wasn't going to happen).

    And within a month or two you'll see them rolling off the line with some kind of conformal coating over the problem area. Problem solved.


    From a PR standpoint, the press conference was awful. And while they do have a devoted customer base, you don't maintain and grow that base by getting every press outlet to call you pricks (because you're being pricks). But from a customer service standpoint, the situation was handled pretty well.

    mcdermott on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    Not everything is a "bubble." That word has become entirely too popular lately.

    No offense, but your post reminds me of this bubble I once saw. In the economy.

    Drez on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander's anti-Apple bubble has over-inflated, and will probably burst soon.

    syndalis on
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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Avicus wrote: »
    Avicus wrote: »
    I don't really understand all the whining... Don't like how the phone works? Don't think it is working properly? Take it back and get a refund. Problem solved. There is hardly any need for people to go on and on about this.

    Are you on the Apple PR team? You seem like it.

    "What, you got problems with the phone? Fuck off! We ain't puttin' a gun to youse heads or anything."

    If something doesn't work like I expect it to I won't buy it. If i buy it and it doesn't work like I expect it to now I can return it for a refund. These are the same forums where every second thread in D&D has somebody going on about the 'free market'. If you don't like something, 'vote with your wallets'. I'm sure that soo many people consider this such a big problem that they will return their phones.

    You mean these are the forums where the "free maket will solve everything" theory is mocked derisively on a regular basis, right?

    HappylilElf on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Avicus wrote: »
    Avicus wrote: »
    I don't really understand all the whining... Don't like how the phone works? Don't think it is working properly? Take it back and get a refund. Problem solved. There is hardly any need for people to go on and on about this.

    Are you on the Apple PR team? You seem like it.

    "What, you got problems with the phone? Fuck off! We ain't puttin' a gun to youse heads or anything."

    If something doesn't work like I expect it to I won't buy it. If i buy it and it doesn't work like I expect it to now I can return it for a refund. These are the same forums where every second thread in D&D has somebody going on about the 'free market'. If you don't like something, 'vote with your wallets'. I'm sure that soo many people consider this such a big problem that they will return their phones.

    You mean these are the forums where the "free maket will solve everything" theory is mocked derisively on a regular basis, right?

    I mean it is pretty silly. I tried to buy the market on Craigslist once and it was pretty expensive. Plus the guy never sent me the deed.

    Drez on
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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    No kidding, Drez. "Free" market my ass :(

    HappylilElf on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2010
    finnith wrote: »
    Reading it, it's more damning than you would think. The CR guy pretty much rips today's dog and pony show to shreds.

    I have to say, even in the light of the bad PR moves in the last month or so, today's press conference really took me aback in its mean-spirited dismissiveness. To the point that I am legitimately starting to question Jobs' mental health.

    From the callous and unfunny "parody" song that the conference opened with to Jobs' repeated insistence that somehow hard-core Apple customers are happy despite having broken phones, it was hard to watch this mighty company let one man drag its reputation so haughtily through the mud.

    On top of that, the Apple.com link that shows in great detail the testing lab for the phone is simply mystifying. I have no idea what Apple is trying to convey by telling people how expensive and fantastic their facilities are. Is Jobs trying to say that the phone can't possibly be broken because their lab cost $100 million? That's basically all I can discern from that.


    Puzzling, but mostly just sad.

    I agree with you about the bad choice for an opening, but I think you might be misinterpreting what Apple was trying to say by showing their expensive testing labs. I would guess that they were trying to convey the fact that they take the quality of their products seriously, as they would otherwise not have spent as much money on QA. This is not what I think, it's just what I think Steve Jobs was trying to say.

    If some of those snippets are right though, it seems like a pretty ridiculous press conference. There's no reason to antagonize journalists (they control your reputation), or customers (even more than journalists, they control your reputation), and Apple doing so seems like a pretty lowly move. $30 for bumpers is pretty ridiculous as well, though you can certainly find other cases for just as much or even more on the market. Giving out free bumpers is great, but there's got to be a way to fix the design flaw without them.

    As Mark Twain once said, never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel.

    And I think the issue is that Apple has come down with a bad case of Eisneritis.

    Didn't Twain also have a reputation for punching literary critics and showing up at important public events in white even when it was snowing out?

    Scalfin on
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    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2010
    I live in a pretty rural area and I've been jealous of my brother's ability to pick up service on his iPhone 4 just about anywhere. We were hiking a section of the Appalachian Trail just this past week and we both brought our iPhones as GPS/emergency call devices. His iPhone 4 picked up one bar of service in the most unlikely of places whereas my 3GS and my sister's Nokia could find nothing strong enough to hold on to. And in areas where we all had one bar service, his data rates were usable and mine were... not.

    So there are ways in which the iPhone 4 antenna choices make sense. The marketing slogan should be "fewer bars in more places as long as you aren't one of those damn cack-handers."

    Scalfin on
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Avicus wrote: »
    I don't really understand all the whining... Don't like how the phone works? Don't think it is working properly? Take it back and get a refund. Problem solved. There is hardly any need for people to go on and on about this.

    Are you on the Apple PR team? You seem like it.

    "What, you got problems with the phone? Fuck off! We ain't puttin' a gun to youse heads or anything."

    Except that it's the truth. The antenna problem has been splashed across the front page of the New York Times for weeks, pretty much anybody looking to buy one or who has bought one should have been reasonably informed about it. He gave every last person the chance to return theirs, no restocking fee, no problem. Any future customers are free not to buy it.

    Oh, plus the free bumpers for those that decide to keep it.

    Condescending bullshit aside, their basically doing as much as they can be reasonably expected to do, unless you actually expected some kind of recall to fix the problem (wasn't going to happen).

    And within a month or two you'll see them rolling off the line with some kind of conformal coating over the problem area. Problem solved.


    From a PR standpoint, the press conference was awful. And while they do have a devoted customer base, you don't maintain and grow that base by getting every press outlet to call you pricks (because you're being pricks). But from a customer service standpoint, the situation was handled pretty well.

    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?

    AngelHedgie on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Avicus wrote: »
    I don't really understand all the whining... Don't like how the phone works? Don't think it is working properly? Take it back and get a refund. Problem solved. There is hardly any need for people to go on and on about this.

    Are you on the Apple PR team? You seem like it.

    "What, you got problems with the phone? Fuck off! We ain't puttin' a gun to youse heads or anything."

    Except that it's the truth. The antenna problem has been splashed across the front page of the New York Times for weeks, pretty much anybody looking to buy one or who has bought one should have been reasonably informed about it. He gave every last person the chance to return theirs, no restocking fee, no problem. Any future customers are free not to buy it.

    Oh, plus the free bumpers for those that decide to keep it.

    Condescending bullshit aside, their basically doing as much as they can be reasonably expected to do, unless you actually expected some kind of recall to fix the problem (wasn't going to happen).

    And within a month or two you'll see them rolling off the line with some kind of conformal coating over the problem area. Problem solved.


    From a PR standpoint, the press conference was awful. And while they do have a devoted customer base, you don't maintain and grow that base by getting every press outlet to call you pricks (because you're being pricks). But from a customer service standpoint, the situation was handled pretty well.

    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?

    Define "let them off the hook."

    I've stated that their PR was godawful.

    I've required that they offer no-questions-asked refunds with no associated fees for all current customers.

    I've required that they hand out cases/bumpers for free to those that choose to keep the defective device anyway, to mitigate the damage.

    I will not buy an iPhone. I actually won't buy any Apple product at release (and I generally won't buy first-gen Apple products, period).

    Is it because I didn't spend four paragraphs going into detail as to why their PR is godawful? Because most of it had already been covered. I'm just saying that from a customer service standpoint, the handled it well. If I were a current iPhone (4) customer, I'd be satisfied with my options.

    I guess I'm just not saying how saying "their PR is godawful" is somehow "letting them off the hook" for their tone. Unless the kids these days are using "godawful" in a way that I'm not familiar with.

    mcdermott on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited July 2010
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    The iPhones drops a negligible amount more calls than the 3Gs, has seen almost no returns, and people WHO ACTUALLY OWN one are happy with it.

    And they are still giving out bumpers and other cases to sate the minimal number of people who are actually impacted in any way by this.

    I was fine with their tone. I wouldn't be if they didn't offer solutions to those impacted (like Sony's "The PSP screen cracking is a feature, not a flaw" thing).

    If people are making a mountain out of a molehill, the affected party has the right to point that out with facts and data.

    syndalis on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?

    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    They still failed to show, from what I gathered, that the drop on the iPhone 4 wasn't worse when that spot is bridged.
    The iPhones drops a negligible amount more calls than the 3Gs, has seen almost no returns, and people WHO ACTUALLY OWN one are happy with it.

    IIRC, the statement was that "it drops less than 1 additional call per 100."

    The 3GS has a dropped call rate of approximately 1 per 100.

    Which means that it drops upwards of double the calls of the 3GS. And really, a 2% (or so) dropped call rate is pretty fucking absurd when you think about it.

    This is the exact kind of condescending bullshit people are complaining about...he's trying to spin a failure rate that's double the rate of the previous product as "negligible." And acting like anybody who thinks that doubling is serious is just being a whiny bitch. Which is a load of crap.
    And they are still giving out bumpers and other cases to sate the minimal number of people who are actually impacted in any way by this.

    Actually, if they were only giving out bumpers I'd say people still have a right to be pissed. It's the whole "come get a refund" part that "fixes" the problem from a customer service standpoint.
    I was fine with their tone. I wouldn't be if they didn't offer solutions to those impacted (like Sony's "The PSP screen cracking is a feature, not a flaw" thing).

    If people are making a mountain out of a molehill, the affected party has the right to point that out with facts and data.

    Except that they didn't particularly prove that case. They just dressed it up all pretty, then acting like condescending pricks to anybody who continues to "overreact."

    mcdermott on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    for you to get a dropped call/lost signal you need to be in the low 2 or 1 bar range already, and then apply the death grip

    anything above that will have you unaffected by the attenuation, and the iphone 4 will hold a signal fine at any point above the threshold where it cuts your signal off entirely. with the new software patch, it will accurately show your signal strength, so you know when it is a bad idea to be touching that spot. but if you get decent coverage (high 2, or 3 bars and up) you can touch it all you like.

    Big Red Tie on
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  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't think I've been condescended to with their press conference. It's strange to see people take it so personally, I feel a bit bad for you.

    I felt good about the conference. I pre-ordered two 32GB iPhone 4 units afterwards.

    Threepio on
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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Signal strength matters beyond dropped calls. I don't make that many calls. Signal strength matters to me when I'm trying to use data, which I use all the time. And yes, Android has a problem with that too (I have the Nexus One)

    Dracil on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dracil wrote: »
    Signal strength matters beyond dropped calls. I don't make that many calls. Signal strength matters to me when I'm trying to use data, which I use all the time. And yes, Android has a problem with that too (I have the Nexus One)

    the iphone 4 gets the same download rates/call quality regardless of bars. iirc the antenna being on the outside helps. if you want i'll go find the article proving it in the iphone thread

    Big Red Tie on
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    Beasteh wrote: »
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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Low 3G bars doesn't switch you from 3G to Edge?

    Dracil on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    woops, i mean, it gets better download rates etc. than previous iphones even while deathgripped. point is, as long as you don't completely lose reception it should be fine

    http://daringfireball.net/2010/07/iphone_4_3g_performance
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

    Big Red Tie on
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    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Dracil wrote: »
    Signal strength matters beyond dropped calls. I don't make that many calls. Signal strength matters to me when I'm trying to use data, which I use all the time. And yes, Android has a problem with that too (I have the Nexus One)

    Gotta say I haven't noticed any issues with the data reception on the Evo. Then again maybe it's because Sprint is all 3G up here so it's never all that exceptionally fast anyways.

    HappylilElf on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    Not everything is a "bubble." That word has become entirely too popular lately.

    So are you saying that there's a bubble b[strike]u[/strike]obble8-)?

    Spoit on
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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    From a PR standpoint, the press conference was awful. And while they do have a devoted customer base, you don't maintain and grow that base by getting every press outlet to call you pricks (because you're being pricks). But from a customer service standpoint, the situation was handled pretty well.

    This is basically how I felt about it. Apple did everything I could reasonably expect them to from a practical standpoint; a recall would be expensive, needless, and damaging, and consumers got what they needed in both the free bumpers and the statement that Apple may do something drastic by Sept. 30th. Those are the hard facts that needed to be stated, and Apple stated them plainly. Kudos.

    However, what no one needed was to be lectured to for 35 minutes on meaningless data, customer satisfaction rates, how the problem effects the whole industry, blah blah blah. If Dell or HP or anyone sold, say, a high performance laptop that continuously overheated, no one wants to hear about how the i7 processor is hard to work with and what you can do at home to cool it off and how many other users are happy with the product anyway. Why? Because none of that shit pertains to the problem at hand: in this case, Apple's malfunctioning antennae. Apple should have talked about THEIR antennae and ONLY about the antennae, and how they were going to fix it. Anything beyond that is handwaving, defensive condescension.


    I'm actually looking forward to Apple getting taken down a peg in the press, because I think they're at a point where they could stand it. Not that I begrudge them their success, as most of it is well-earned, but the company (and specifically, Jobs) appear to be relying too much on their core consumer base to shield them from market forces that effect everyone else, especially when it comes to products lacking in utility and performance. Apple needs to take a few on the chin, and take it the right way, and instead of recoiling defensively when people and the press correctly point out their mistakes, embrace a spirit of honesty and striving to provide the outstanding quality that they so ardently wish to be known for.

    Atomika on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    However, what no one needed was to be lectured to for 35 minutes on meaningless data, customer satisfaction rates, how the problem effects the whole industry,

    wrong. everyone needs to have "meaningless data" drilled into their tiny little brains until they understand basic physics.

    what mistakes have they made?

    placing that antenna in that location: industry standard. so is attenuation!

    exposing the antenna: improves reception so drastically that, even after the death grip "malfunction", it still is better than previous iphones

    offering numerous, unobtrusive solutions to people with bad cell coverage, for free: seems like they already took the hit, don't you think? i guess they finally realized no one will understand what is going on, and just wants to take apple down a peg.

    Big Red Tie on
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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    However, what no one needed was to be lectured to for 35 minutes on meaningless data, customer satisfaction rates, how the problem effects the whole industry,

    wrong. everyone needs to have "meaningless data" drilled into their tiny little brains until they understand basic physics.

    what mistakes have they made?

    placing that antenna in that location: industry standard. so is attenuation!

    exposing the antenna: improves reception so drastically that, even after the death grip "malfunction", it still is better than previous iphones

    offering numerous, unobtrusive solutions to people with bad cell coverage, for free: seems like they already took the hit, don't you think? i guess they finally realized no one will understand what is going on, and just wants to take apple down a peg.

    No, you damned goose, that's the whole point. We aren't all fucking rocket scientists or cellular engineers! The last thing regular people need is to be talked down to and told the problem is ubiquitous and therefore should be forgiven.

    And certainly not, as you're proposing, be asked to be grateful for something else.

    Atomika on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    electricitylikesme on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    But...but...it might make it less shiny!

    Seriously, though, this is almost certainly what's going to happen for future iPhones, and it's a change that will probably be applied pretty quickly.

    Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Big Red Tie, but I thought the problem with the iPhone wasn't so much regular old "industry standard" attenuation, but the fact that the exposed antenna can actually be bridged by the skin. Which may well be throwing off the tuning of the antenna, causing things like reflected power back into the transmitter.

    mcdermott on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    But...but...it might make it less shiny!

    Seriously, though, this is almost certainly what's going to happen for future iPhones, and it's a change that will probably be applied pretty quickly.

    Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Big Red Tie, but I thought the problem with the iPhone wasn't so much regular old "industry standard" attenuation, but the fact that the exposed antenna can actually be bridged by the skin. Which may well be throwing off the tuning of the antenna, causing things like reflected power back into the transmitter.

    bridging the gap in the antenna results in increased attenuation, which can put you below the threshold into no signal territory. while the antenna placement does cause more attenuation, it also causes the iphone 4 to have very good reception as long as you stay at one bar or above

    not really sure how to respond t atomic ross. i'm sorry that you have issues understanding things, but i'm not a rocket scientist or a cellular engineer and i understand this shit just fine.

    i also didn't say the problem is ubiquitous, nor am i making a speech to the masses that have the iphone 4 (just talking down to you), nor am i asking you to be grateful for apple allowing returns and giving out free bumpers.

    Big Red Tie on
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    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    The iPhones drops a negligible amount more calls than the 3Gs, has seen almost no returns, and people WHO ACTUALLY OWN one are happy with it.

    And they are still giving out bumpers and other cases to sate the minimal number of people who are actually impacted in any way by this.

    I was fine with their tone. I wouldn't be if they didn't offer solutions to those impacted (like Sony's "The PSP screen cracking is a feature, not a flaw" thing).

    If people are making a mountain out of a molehill, the affected party has the right to point that out with facts and data.

    Remember: the general phone user doesn't actually hold his phone, he uses the iTelekinesis app.

    Also, I'm pretty sure they were comparing the new iPhone to the 3G at release, which I think we can all agree is a very insulting tactic.

    Edit: how about we look at some of the other stats:
    Customer service calls: who the hell would call customer service for a widely reported problem that the company continues to deny exists.
    Returns: that assumes that the average iPhone user deviate's from Fry on Futurama (shut up and take my money). The iPhone has always been famous for failing as a phone, yet mac fans buy anything (the iPad is an inferior tablet, yet it's surpassed all other tablet PC's)

    Scalfin on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    But...but...it might make it less shiny!

    Seriously, though, this is almost certainly what's going to happen for future iPhones, and it's a change that will probably be applied pretty quickly.

    Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Big Red Tie, but I thought the problem with the iPhone wasn't so much regular old "industry standard" attenuation, but the fact that the exposed antenna can actually be bridged by the skin. Which may well be throwing off the tuning of the antenna, causing things like reflected power back into the transmitter.

    bridging the gap in the antenna results in increased attenuation, which can put you below the threshold into no signal territory. while the antenna placement does cause more attenuation, it also causes the iphone 4 to have very good reception as long as you stay at one bar or above

    not really sure how to respond t atomic ross. i'm sorry that you have issues understanding things, but i'm not a rocket scientist or a cellular engineer and i understand this shit just fine.

    i also didn't say the problem is ubiquitous, nor am i making a speech to the masses that have the iphone 4 (just talking down to you), nor am i asking you to be grateful for apple allowing returns and giving out free bumpers.

    Okay, since you understand this shit just fine I'll ask you: does bridging that gap result in attenuation in the "conventional" sense, which is to say path loss from absorbed signal, or does it result in reduced signal strength due to an impedance mismatch introduced at the antenna?

    It matters, because the latter will generally result in power reflected back into the transmitter which, over time, can damage the part. In other words, bad mojo.

    It's entirely possible that "gripping" other phones causes regular old attenuation, whereas merely touching the "magic spot" on the iPhone is enough to cause the impedance mismatch (the latter seems to be the case, not sure on the former).

    Of course, none of that was covered in the course of the "they do it too!" press conference.

    mcdermott on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    The iPhones drops a negligible amount more calls than the 3Gs, has seen almost no returns, and people WHO ACTUALLY OWN one are happy with it.

    And they are still giving out bumpers and other cases to sate the minimal number of people who are actually impacted in any way by this.

    I was fine with their tone. I wouldn't be if they didn't offer solutions to those impacted (like Sony's "The PSP screen cracking is a feature, not a flaw" thing).

    If people are making a mountain out of a molehill, the affected party has the right to point that out with facts and data.

    Remember: the general phone user doesn't actually hold his phone, he uses the iTelekinesis app.

    Also, I'm pretty sure they were comparing the new iPhone to the 3G at release, which I think we can all agree is a very insulting tactic.

    Edit: how about we look at some of the other stats:
    Customer service calls: who the hell would call customer service for a widely reported problem that the company continues to deny exists.
    Returns: that assumes that the average iPhone user deviate's from Fry on Futurama (shut up and take my money). The iPhone has always been famous for failing as a phone, yet mac fans buy anything (the iPad is an inferior tablet, yet it's surpassed all other tablet PC's)

    Actually the problem with the iPhone is it works "ok", and is shiny. By the time you're annoyed at it, you're 6 months into a contract.

    electricitylikesme on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    (the iPad is an inferior tablet, yet it's surpassed all other tablet PC's)

    Comparing the ipad to tablet PCs is like comparing apples to, well, a steak. Tablet PCs are full laptops which have tablets built in, the ipad is an upsized MID that the tech sites decided to change the definition of "tablet" to accommodate years before anything was known about it.


    ....I'm still kind of bitter that apple didn't bother with a full tablet pc tablet...

    Spoit on
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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    Horseshit. I tried this last night with my Droid Eris. I completely wrapped my hands around every part of the phone and did not have a single bar drop.

    SyphonBlue on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    But...but...it might make it less shiny!

    Seriously, though, this is almost certainly what's going to happen for future iPhones, and it's a change that will probably be applied pretty quickly.

    Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Big Red Tie, but I thought the problem with the iPhone wasn't so much regular old "industry standard" attenuation, but the fact that the exposed antenna can actually be bridged by the skin. Which may well be throwing off the tuning of the antenna, causing things like reflected power back into the transmitter.

    bridging the gap in the antenna results in increased attenuation, which can put you below the threshold into no signal territory. while the antenna placement does cause more attenuation, it also causes the iphone 4 to have very good reception as long as you stay at one bar or above

    not really sure how to respond t atomic ross. i'm sorry that you have issues understanding things, but i'm not a rocket scientist or a cellular engineer and i understand this shit just fine.

    i also didn't say the problem is ubiquitous, nor am i making a speech to the masses that have the iphone 4 (just talking down to you), nor am i asking you to be grateful for apple allowing returns and giving out free bumpers.

    Okay, since you understand this shit just fine I'll ask you: does bridging that gap result in attenuation in the "conventional" sense, which is to say path loss from absorbed signal, or does it result in reduced signal strength due to an impedance mismatch introduced at the antenna?

    It matters, because the latter will generally result in power reflected back into the transmitter which, over time, can damage the part. In other words, bad mojo.

    It's entirely possible that "gripping" other phones causes regular old attenuation, whereas merely touching the "magic spot" on the iPhone is enough to cause the impedance mismatch (the latter seems to be the case, not sure on the former).

    Of course, none of that was covered in the course of the "they do it too!" press conference.
    i am pretty sure it is the first, but someone should go look it up

    t syphonblue: bars mean nothing unless you know what ranges correlate with each bar. for all you know you lost just as much as an iphone 4, it just wasn't displayed. more likely not, but you shouldn't trust your bars if you don't know what they mean

    Big Red Tie on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited July 2010
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    Horseshit. I tried this last night with my Droid Eris. I completely wrapped my hands around every part of the phone and did not have a single bar drop.

    Chances are that where you tried that the iPhone 4 would also have no problems either.

    Try that in an area with weak coverage where you barely have a few bars... it will drop like a rock.

    syndalis on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you know, putting a thin layer of transparent plastic over the antenna to stop you short circuiting it, costing fractions of a cent to do in the first place.

    But...but...it might make it less shiny!

    Seriously, though, this is almost certainly what's going to happen for future iPhones, and it's a change that will probably be applied pretty quickly.

    Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong Big Red Tie, but I thought the problem with the iPhone wasn't so much regular old "industry standard" attenuation, but the fact that the exposed antenna can actually be bridged by the skin. Which may well be throwing off the tuning of the antenna, causing things like reflected power back into the transmitter.

    bridging the gap in the antenna results in increased attenuation, which can put you below the threshold into no signal territory. while the antenna placement does cause more attenuation, it also causes the iphone 4 to have very good reception as long as you stay at one bar or above

    not really sure how to respond t atomic ross. i'm sorry that you have issues understanding things, but i'm not a rocket scientist or a cellular engineer and i understand this shit just fine.

    i also didn't say the problem is ubiquitous, nor am i making a speech to the masses that have the iphone 4 (just talking down to you), nor am i asking you to be grateful for apple allowing returns and giving out free bumpers.

    Okay, since you understand this shit just fine I'll ask you: does bridging that gap result in attenuation in the "conventional" sense, which is to say path loss from absorbed signal, or does it result in reduced signal strength due to an impedance mismatch introduced at the antenna?

    It matters, because the latter will generally result in power reflected back into the transmitter which, over time, can damage the part. In other words, bad mojo.

    It's entirely possible that "gripping" other phones causes regular old attenuation, whereas merely touching the "magic spot" on the iPhone is enough to cause the impedance mismatch (the latter seems to be the case, not sure on the former).

    Of course, none of that was covered in the course of the "they do it too!" press conference.

    i am pretty sure it is the first, but someone should go look it up

    I looked around, and couldn't find anything. But I'd wager it's not the first, because from what I've read (I don't own one) it doesn't take much to cause the significant drop...basically just bridging that gap. Merely having a finger on that gap should not cause significant attenuation from path loss, so it's almost certainly due to an introduced impedance mismatch.

    Which basically goes to show that having the antenna be an external part that people actually hold onto isn't necessarily the best idea.

    The kind of thing an "engineering driven company" should have realized.

    EDIT: But you're correct in that the "bar" display varies so wildly as to be useless.

    mcdermott on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    the significant drop isn't that significant. 24 vs 17 on a nexus one, for example. this is also only with a full on death grip, versus most practical usage (which would be a finger on the gap)
    people originally thought it was much, much more significant because the bars misrepresented this drop quite a bit

    but that is interesting, and would make the whole bumper thing a lot more important

    Big Red Tie on
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  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    Horseshit. I tried this last night with my Droid Eris. I completely wrapped my hands around every part of the phone and did not have a single bar drop.

    Also unlike the iphone, your bars were accurate in their signal rating instead of just for show.

    The Muffin Man on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Ask yourself this - if it had been any other company than Apple that gave that performance, would you be so ready to let them off the hook for the tone they put forth?
    They feel like they have been dragged through the mud for a problem every other phone has (I dont care if you only have to touch the spot with a finger in a poor reception area; that's not general usage. All phones, when held, see reduced performance).

    Horseshit. I tried this last night with my Droid Eris. I completely wrapped my hands around every part of the phone and did not have a single bar drop.

    Also unlike the iphone, your bars were accurate in their signal rating instead of just for show.

    4.0.1
    also, you don't know that! his phone would definitely not get as much press as the iphone 4 if the bars were misrepresentative

    Big Red Tie on
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    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Apple didn't get any press because of the bars being a lie. Apple CREATED press about it. THEY were the ones who revealed it, in order to distract from their hardware flaws.

    Evander on
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie beautiful clydesdale style feet too hot to trotRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Evander wrote: »
    Apple didn't get any press because of the bars being a lie. Apple CREATED press about it. THEY were the ones who revealed it, in order to distract from their hardware flaws.

    and this clearly shows why you would get press about misrepresentative bars on the droid elis because...

    Big Red Tie on
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    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    actually my point is that no one really cares about the bars at all. It's a false issue created as a distraction.



    Outside fo comercials, no one eve sita around thinking about how many bars they have. what is important is whether or not they have recpetion AT ALL. If they have some bars, that is good enough, regardless of what some is.

    Evander on
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