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Baten Kaitos love thread <3
elkatas
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Registered User regular
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean was released in November 16, 2004 for Nintendo Gamecube. It was quite experimental RPG project that was developed by Monolith Soft (of Xenosaga fame, not to be confused with Monolith Productions), and published by Namco. Game had very old skool feeling with relatively simple plot (until 2nd disc, that is), beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds and music that was composed by Motoi Sakuraba, one of the most respected composers in the business. But game's combat system was anything but old skool. Baten Kaitos rather had unique card based combat system that most player either loved or hated.
Baten Kaitos is also notorious for its voice acting that is hilariously bad. Each actor either over- or underdelivers his lines, creating horrible mess that would make even Agapio Racing Team proud*. I don't personally know anyone who would have finished game without turning speeches off.
Plot: Baten Kaitos happens in an unnamed, aerial island-based cloud kingdom. Humankind escaped to islands after the war war against wicked god Malpercio made surface world unhabitable. Game's main character is Kalas, 18-years old young man who seeks to avenge his grandfather's death. In the beginning of the game, Kalas awakens in Cebalrai, minor farming village somewhere in Sadal Suud. His guardian spirit has lost part of its memory, and can't remember how or why Kalas and it came to Sadal Suud. Kalas goes to investigate the forest where he was found unconscious, and he soon meets young lady named Xelha. Xelha is trying to visit sacred spring that is located deeper in the forest. Because both are going same way, they team up.
Mechanics: Like it was said before, the main thing that seperates Baten Kaitos from other JRPGs is its rather unique card based combat system that your either love or hate. Each character has its own, seperate deck of cards, which size will grow up during the adventure. When combat starts, each active team member picks certan amount of cards from the top of the deck. Like deck's size, this number will grow up during the adventure. Cards are seperated into three different categories: attack, defense and status cards. When characters turn comes up, player gets 3 seconds to play cards from active character's hand. During his turn, character can play either multiple attack cards or one status card. Each attack card has associated element and number. To do combos, you need to play cards that either create straight (2-3-4-5, 5-4-3-2 etc.) or pairs (1-1-2-2, 3-3-2-2, 3-3-2-2-6-6 etc). Cards that have opposing elements cancel each other. Defense cards can be only played on opponents turn as a response to attack. Same rules work here as with attacking. You can play multiple defense cards from your hand and enchance their effectiveness by playing them in combo.
Baten Kaitos's battlesystem was fresh change from traditional JRPG battleesystems, but it isn't without its faults. Most often heard complaint about the system is that it is too luck based. This is partially true, as it can sometimes be hard to get useful cards, but designing balanced decks does help. Another complaint is that you can only discard single card during your turn. This is extremely annoying feature, as sometimes it can take over six turns to get even one playable card from the deck.
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Baten Kaitos had been moderate success, but nobody didn't except that Monolith Soft would create sequel for it. As Gamecube was practically dead in the west, Namco didn't want localize game for western market, but fortunately Nintendo stepped in and decided to publish game in the west. Baten Kaitos: Origins was released in September 25, 2006 for Nintendo Gamecube. This wasn't commercially very smart move, as game only moved around 2 000 copies in USA during its first week. That doesn't, however, change the fact that Baten Kaitos: Origins is worthy successor for first Baten Kaitos, and surpassess its predeccessor in many ways. Voice acting wass also now much better and in some parts, even good, featuring voices of Dwight Schultz (Captain "Howling Mad" Murdock from A-Team), TC Carson (Kratos from God of War) and Kirk Thornton (Vampire Hunter D, D's left hand). Music wass once again done by Motoi Sakuraba. Unfortunately, general quality of songs is little bit lower than in first game, although there is few outstanding tracks such as " Le ali del principio**", "Poacher" and "The valedictory elegy".
Plot: Baten Kaitos: Origins takes place twenty years before first BK. Main character is Sagi, 15 years old assassin who has joined Alfard Empire's elite unit. He is given questionable mission of killing Emperor Olgan, and during the mission he will learn that emperor has been already murdered by second party. Sagi and his trustworthy companion Guilo are framed for the murder and forced to flee. Soon our heroes are met by third member of the party, young lady named Milliarde. Party needs clear Sagi's name and solve who or what was behind the murder.
Mechanics: Baten Kaitos: Origins uses card based mechanics like its predecessor, but the system has got complete overhaul. Most important change in the system is that every character in your group uses same deck. Basic attack cards are same for everyone, but armor and weapon cards are character specific. You can play another combat card on the top of last one so long as it has higher number that card that was played before it. Different defense and weapon cards are always valued with 0 and can be played only on the start of the combo.
Another major change in combat mechanics is that you can discard more than one card from your hand in single round. How many cards you can keep in your hand and discard during your turn is based on party's current deck level, that steadily raises as you collect technical points from defeated enemies. This makes game less luck and more deck building based than its predecessor, as you can relatively quickly shuffle around deck and get cards you need.
* http://koti.mbnet.fi/wheany/agapio/english.php
** Which is sung by Motoi's daughter Mio Sakuraba.
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean was released in November 16, 2004 for Nintendo Gamecube. It was quite experimental RPG project that was developed by Monolith Soft (of Xenosaga fame, not to be confused with Monolith Productions), and published by Namco. Game had very old skool feeling with relatively simple plot (until 2nd disc, that is), beautiful hand-drawn backgrounds and music that was composed by Motoi Sakuraba, one of the most respected composers in the business. But game's combat system was anything but old skool. Baten Kaitos rather had unique card based combat system that most player either loved or hated.
Baten Kaitos is also notorious for its voice acting that is hilariously bad. Each actor either over- or underdelivers his lines, creating horrible mess that would make even Agapio Racing Team proud*. I don't personally know anyone who would have finished game without turning speeches off.
Plot: Baten Kaitos happens in an unnamed, aerial island-based cloud kingdom. Humankind escaped to islands after the war war against wicked god Malpercio made surface world unhabitable. Game's main character is Kalas, 18-years old young man who seeks to avenge his grandfather's death. In the beginning of the game, Kalas awakens in Cebalrai, minor farming village somewhere in Sadal Suud. His guardian spirit has lost part of its memory, and can't remember how or why Kalas and it came to Sadal Suud. Kalas goes to investigate the forest where he was found unconscious, and he soon meets young lady named Xelha. Xelha is trying to visit sacred spring that is located deeper in the forest. Because both are going same way, they team up.
Mechanics: Like it was said before, the main thing that seperates Baten Kaitos from other JRPGs is its rather unique card based combat system that your either love or hate. Each character has its own, seperate deck of cards, which size will grow up during the adventure. When combat starts, each active team member picks certan amount of cards from the top of the deck. Like deck's size, this number will grow up during the adventure. Cards are seperated into three different categories: attack, defense and status cards. When characters turn comes up, player gets 3 seconds to play cards from active character's hand. During his turn, character can play either multiple attack cards or one status card. Each attack card has associated element and number. To do combos, you need to play cards that either create straight (2-3-4-5, 5-4-3-2 etc.) or pairs (1-1-2-2, 3-3-2-2, 3-3-2-2-6-6 etc). Cards that have opposing elements cancel each other. Defense cards can be only played on opponents turn as a response to attack. Same rules work here as with attacking. You can play multiple defense cards from your hand and enchance their effectiveness by playing them in combo.
Baten Kaitos's battlesystem was fresh change from traditional JRPG battleesystems, but it isn't without its faults. Most often heard complaint about the system is that it is too luck based. This is partially true, as it can sometimes be hard to get useful cards, but designing balanced decks does help. Another complaint is that you can only discard single card during your turn. This is extremely annoying feature, as sometimes it can take over six turns to get even one playable card from the deck.
Baten Kaitos: Origins
Baten Kaitos had been moderate success, but nobody didn't except that Monolith Soft would create sequel for it. As Gamecube was practically dead in the west, Namco didn't want localize game for western market, but fortunately Nintendo stepped in and decided to publish game in the west. Baten Kaitos: Origins was released in September 25, 2006 for Nintendo Gamecube. This wasn't commercially very smart move, as game only moved around 2 000 copies in USA during its first week. That doesn't, however, change the fact that Baten Kaitos: Origins is worthy successor for first Baten Kaitos, and surpassess its predeccessor in many ways. Voice acting wass also now much better and in some parts, even good, featuring voices of Dwight Schultz (Captain "Howling Mad" Murdock from A-Team), TC Carson (Kratos from God of War) and Kirk Thornton (Vampire Hunter D, D's left hand). Music wass once again done by Motoi Sakuraba. Unfortunately, general quality of songs is little bit lower than in first game, although there is few outstanding tracks such as " Le ali del principio**", "Poacher" and "The valedictory elegy".
Plot: Baten Kaitos: Origins takes place twenty years before first BK. Main character is Sagi, 15 years old assassin who has joined Alfard Empire's elite unit. He is given questionable mission of killing Emperor Olgan, and during the mission he will learn that emperor has been already murdered by second party. Sagi and his trustworthy companion Guilo are framed for the murder and forced to flee. Soon our heroes are met by third member of the party, young lady named Milliarde. Party needs clear Sagi's name and solve who or what was behind the murder.
Mechanics: Baten Kaitos: Origins uses card based mechanics like its predecessor, but the system has got complete overhaul. Most important change in the system is that every character in your group uses same deck. Basic attack cards are same for everyone, but armor and weapon cards are character specific. You can play another combat card on the top of last one so long as it has higher number that card that was played before it. Different defense and weapon cards are always valued with 0 and can be played only on the start of the combo.
Another major change in combat mechanics is that you can discard more than one card from your hand in single round. How many cards you can keep in your hand and discard during your turn is based on party's current deck level, that steadily raises as you collect technical points from defeated enemies. This makes game less luck and more deck building based than its predecessor, as you can relatively quickly shuffle around deck and get cards you need.
* http://koti.mbnet.fi/wheany/agapio/english.php
** Which is sung by Motoi's daughter Mio Sakuraba.
Hypnotically inclined.
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I'd love to see the series (or at least, the style and gameplay) live on in this new generation of consoles (or hell, on the DS/PSP)
Yeah, Baten Kaitos DS was quietly cancelled, probably due low demand. Shame really.
I'm fairly sure Namco just kinda sucks ass, honestly. They put no effort into marketing their biggest RPG series, and continue to not bring some of the classic games in the series over, or the various remakes (ToD2 on PSP, ToP on PSP, ToD PS2, etc), they dropped every Xenosaga project past the third game, which was easily the best in the series, and they don't seem to give a shit about Baten Kaitos either.
Fortunately Namco was only publishing game so in theory Monolith could continue series if someone would be interested to publish new game. Unfortunately I don't think that they can find one after abysmal sales of BK:O.
Yeah, the voice acting in the first game is very odd...it's not even that the voices are bad so much as it sounds like they were recorded very poorly or in a room with bad acoustics.
I am a freaking nerd.
Actually voices were recorded just fine. Problem was that Monolith got idea that sound would more clearer when characters are closer to guardian spirit. If you surround system, effect disappears.
I didn't finish BK1, and I cheated at one point so I deleted my save game and have started again. Problem is, I have no real desire to finish the game, even though I do really like it and enjoyed it. And I can't play BK2, which I also own, until I finish BK1.
She's not a strategy-game person, so seeing her play with this whole card-system thing is hilarious. (For one... she didn't know she could build different decks in BK2, and have different elements for each one, for ease of going through places with monsters of differing elemental weaknesses. Also, she didn't know what MP was. ... I
I must say, though, just purely by watching on the side, the story is pretty good. For both games. The plot twists are huge. :shock:
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...?
Heh. I probably didn't explain well enough. Monolith's idea was that speech would be louder when talking character was closer to point from which guardian spirit watched the scene. From what I have heard, effect actually work very well if you have surround system. Unfortunately effect didn't transfer at all to normal stereo, resulting in echoing and muffled sound.
1) Was that the part that people always claim the difficulty spiked at?
2) Has the "Twist"â„¢ happened yet?
3) About how far into the game am I?
1) You just passed it. Most people weren't just prepared for the fight and got stuck.
2) The Twistâ„¢ is coming very soon.
3) At the end of the first disc. About 15-20 hours more to go.
I figured, and didn't quite understand why people found it so hard. Ah well.
And it's actually onto the second disc, which is why I was asking - my characters still are at rather low levels, but typically disc changes happen about 2/3rds of the way into a game.
Oh yes, it does change after the crash. But the twist is indeed coming soon, [spoiler:84a5ff2bd4]on the mines.[/spoiler:84a5ff2bd4]
Heh, I passed it on my third try. But BK:O's The Demon Chicken from Hell, god, that was a hard boss. I mean, I tried over 8 hours to beat it.
The game warns you before you get onto that airship. The main character LOOKS AT YOU and warns you to save before you get on that fucking ship. That is a pretty big fucking hint in RPGs, isn't it?
Anyhoo... BK is an awesome game but I don't think I'll play through it again. Fucking long game. Love the battle system though, getting huge combos feels good.
Haven't played BK Origins yet but I plan on picking it up eventually.
Also, the soundtrack rules.
You aren't given any warnings before Demon Chicken from Hell. Battle happens immediately at the start of the second disc, and if you save, you don't have any means to raise your levels or get new magnus before the fight.
Bullshit. I remember distinctly before you get on that airship (upon which you fight the three lackeys for the first time) you are told something along the lines of "zomg are you ready? there probably wont be any churches on that airship. better save!"
Heh, I think we had misunderstandment here. Demon Chicken from Hell is on the Baten Kaitos Origins. I meant it was way worser than airship battle because of you didn't get any warnings about it.
Oh, I thought you meant the guy that looks like a chicken (one of the three lackeys) who does ridiculous amounts of damage.
The world may never know.
You should. Provided you can ignore the awful awful voice acting, it's actually a rather entertaining game.
Don't ignore it. Turn it off.
You can't turn it off in battles, can you?
See, I did the exact same thing. Got back into a little bit of an RPG swing thanks to the handhelds, and decided to just always have one "going" - not necessarily activley playing, but making general progress in. Given how many RPGs I haven't beaten yet, that's a good idea.
The combat system in BK:O is 100x better, using one deck, shared generic attacks, no reshuffling, and several other improvements. They also eliminate the stupid nonsense combos that you have to do in the middle of combat to make new magnus.
And if you thought getting a Final Straight Sunrise/set was awesome, wait until you MP Burst your way into a 20+ card chain of oblivion.
[spoiler:be6b1138b5]The Emperor in Demon form[/spoiler:be6b1138b5]
Damn it, he is though. Though the three only took me 2 tries before I realized what I had to do.
[spoiler:be6b1138b5]Kill the Right Side guy first, then focus on the girl in the left. Finally fight the center guy. He pissed me off because he could get 2 attacks.[/spoiler:be6b1138b5]
I thought the storyline was building up to something awesome, which was further bolstered by so many reports of there being some massive TWIST at some point. I couldn't even hold out that long.
When I went to go look up what this big TWIST could be, I found out that it was something any RPGer could have pulled out of their little book of story hooks. The story I felt the game had been building up too seemed much more intense and interesting, and it, apparently, had nothing to do with that...
Dammit.
Anyway, I loved the one I could play, but, like I've said before, the plot sometimes got really, really stupid. And after it had some truly brilliant scenes too.
Realspoiler it.
[realspoiler:5af5fe07d1]Kalas, the Great Big Hero of the game, who you, personally, as the spirit is attached to, turns out to be working for the villain. Everything you do during the first half of the game is set up by Kalas and his partner in crime to raise an Evil God from the dead, while everybody else in the party is working to stop that from happening.
Understandably, once Kalas shows his true colours (a very sparkly white) and betrays the whole damn world, the game doesn't focus on him all that much any more.[/realspoiler:5af5fe07d1]
Also, when I went to Akihabara in Japan, I walked into the soundtrack floor of a comics and model shop, and said (To the Japanese dude who couldn't speak English) "Baten Kaitos" clearly. He nodded and went and found the soundtracks for both games.
I bought those motherfuckers so hard.
I really enjoyed it, allowed myself to get immersed in it (that's part of why I really enjoy being able to look at and get observations about almost any object in a game; helps draw you in). Some parts were frustrating, some fights were hard, but I took that as a good challenge, and rolled with it.
Kick ass soundtrack, downloaded it awhile back.
Just got Origins for Christmas, so I'm gonna have to play through when I find time. Probably will have to find that soundtrack, too.
Frankly, I ended up enjoying the battle system, though I'm not sure it's something I'd want in every game.
EDIT: Couple other things.
A) This game, like so many others on GameCube, suffered from an incredible lack of advertising. From Eternal Darkness to Baten Kaitos, I've often wondered how some developers thought any of their games would have decent sales when, you know, nobody ever got to hear about them.
Miraculously, I think I was desensitized to the bad voices by the time I finished BK. I tried turning the voices off, turned them back on for some unknown reason, and just rolled with it.
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