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Computer Build Thead: AMD joins NVidia, Intel in confusing name club

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Posts

  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If I'm currently using a 9600gt is this a big enough upgrade to warrant a purchase now?

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035K6H2C/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0J7N3A1HP4S02QWPTF3F&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    It's a saphire 5770 for $100 after two rebates. My plan once I finish paying for school this semester and getting my funds settled is to build a new machine and I've been leaning towards running two of these crossfired. But for now I was thinking it might be good to get one of them because of the price. Are they often this cheap? I doubt they're going to do a flat drop in price in the two weeks before I do all my other ordering but are they on sale for that good a deal a lot or should I jump on this?

    initiatefailure on
  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If I'm currently using a 9600gt is this a big enough upgrade to warrant a purchase now?

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035K6H2C/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0J7N3A1HP4S02QWPTF3F&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    It's a saphire 5770 for $100 after two rebates. My plan once I finish paying for school this semester and getting my funds settled is to build a new machine and I've been leaning towards running two of these crossfired. But for now I was thinking it might be good to get one of them because of the price. Are they often this cheap? I doubt they're going to do a flat drop in price in the two weeks before I do all my other ordering but are they on sale for that good a deal a lot or should I jump on this?

    HIS' 5770 has been holding steady on NewEgg at $130 with a (single) $30 rebate for, I think, a few weeks now. The HIS rebate lasts until 1/15. Just one more data point, I guess.

    Iolo on
    Lt. Iolo's First Day
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  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    How is the 5850? Looking at some forum posts from a quick google search says it's almost twice as fast as the 4870, is that true?

    tofu on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Hey guys, as I've recently graduated from college I've decided it's time for a new computer to replace the one I've had since the start of high school.

    I've got a budget in the $1200-$1400 range, and I'd like to build something reliable and upgradeable. My dad and I have both had good luck with ASUS mobos and Intel chips, and I think I'd like to stick with those. I'm also a Radeon man I'm thinking I should drop about $250-300 on a processor, about that much again on a mobo, $200 or so on a video card, and the remaining $500 or so on everything else. Does that seem about right?

    Towards that goal, I'm thinking of this processor and mobo:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131358

    I'm just sort of blindly assuming they're compatible because they both say 1366 in the title. Also I'm sort of in the dark with video cards. What Radeon card would you guys recommend for my budget? (If my budget is dumb, feel free to suggest changes to that too.)

    Terrendos on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Hey guys, as I've recently graduated from college I've decided it's time for a new computer to replace the one I've had since the start of high school.

    I've got a budget in the $1200-$1400 range, and I'd like to build something reliable and upgradeable. My dad and I have both had good luck with ASUS mobos and Intel chips, and I think I'd like to stick with those. I'm also a Radeon man I'm thinking I should drop about $250-300 on a processor, about that much again on a mobo, $200 or so on a video card, and the remaining $500 or so on everything else. Does that seem about right?

    Towards that goal, I'm thinking of this processor and mobo:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131358

    I'm just sort of blindly assuming they're compatible because they both say 1366 in the title. Also I'm sort of in the dark with video cards. What Radeon card would you guys recommend for my budget? (If my budget is dumb, feel free to suggest changes to that too.)

    Wait until they have Intel Sandy Bridge chips and motherboards in. Should be any day now. You will get better performance at lower prices. You'll be able to get a good motherboard for lower than what you are willing to spend. Maybe put that money on a good SSD, better GPU, or your other components.

    I'd go for a Radeon 6870 at around $200.

    Also if you can shop at Microcenter for your CPUs. Often times you will get them for $76 to $100 less than what newegg has them at. Microcenter is supposed to have the i5-2500k for around $210. Doubt you'll see them that low at newegg. Especially at launch.

    The K is the unlocked model for overclocking. Which these processors can do very well.

    For $210 you'll be getting a CPU better than a $1000 extreme model i7 that is out now.

    Macro9 on
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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    P67 motherboards are fucking pricey though.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Depends on what you need out of the board. Some can be gotten for as low as $100. Some of the better ones are around $200 and more.

    Remember the 1366 board he was looking at is over $300.

    That's $130 that could be spent going with a i7-2600k or 6950/6970.

    Although I am pretty sure that all 6950s can fairly easily be unlocked and turned into 6970s at this point.

    Macro9 on
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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    They are pricier in australia. :< The Asus p8p67 is $200.

    I think I'll go with that board though. Seems to be the best bang for buck quality wise.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Antihippy wrote: »
    They are pricier in australia. :< The Asus p8p67 is $200.

    I think I'll go with that board though. Seems to be the best bang for buck quality wise.

    Oh, Australia.

    Yeah, you guys get the short end of the stick in a lot of stuff.

    Macro9 on
    bO0v7.png
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Antihippy wrote: »
    They are pricier in australia. :< The Asus p8p67 is $200.

    I think I'll go with that board though. Seems to be the best bang for buck quality wise.

    If you're in Australia, can you tell me where you're finding 1155 stuff? My usual places aren't stocking it, and don't have any 'sandy bridge coming soon' notices, plus my google-fu is a bit weak. I can find plenty of forums talking about it, but nowhere selling it.

    AnteCantelope on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?tab=new&cPath=416

    Bonus if you live in melbourne, but they ship nationwide.

    Sandy bridge processors are 9 January.

    PCDIY at box hill also stocks them last time i visited them, but they didn't have the 2500K.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, I've seen a few places stocking the 2500, but not the 2500K, and I can't imagine wanting to save a couple of bucks on something that's already got such a good price/performance ratio. Oh well, I might have to put this off till Monday. I wonder if I'll make it...

    On another note, it seems like 1155 means I'll need to rethink my RAM, because the new motherboards all seem to be dual-channel RAM and not triple. Does anyone know if I can buy just any old pairs of DDR3 memory, or do I need to make sure that they're a certain speed or voltage? I just saw this (Thanks to antihippy for the site, it's a little cheaper than the other I was using):
    http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16306
    that seems to match what I'd like: lots of memory, because I like to multitask with big programs, reasonably fast with the option to overclock. Is that going to be alright on an ASUS P8P67 PRO?

    AnteCantelope on
  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    HITACHI Deskstar 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive for $50 on NewEgg with promo code EMCKJKC22 through 1/9. Promo is actually only $5 off, but that still seems like a really good price for a name brand 1 TB HDD.

    Other weekend deals here. A few solid ones, including $15 off G.SKILL Ripjaws 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1333 RAM with promo code EMCKJKC34.

    Iolo on
    Lt. Iolo's First Day
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    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Man, I'd buy more stuff off NewEgg, but I live in CA so I get hit with sales tax. And right now, it's about 9.75%.

    Yeah, we sorta have a state budget crisis. Just a small, tiny one.

    Zxerol on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So wait, why is this dell moniter so expensive?

    http://au.shopping.com/xSBS-Dell-U2311H-LG-LG-W2353V-PF-Black-23-2ms-GTG-HDMI-Full-HD-1080P-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor-300-cd-m2-50000-1-w-Smart~PT-xPO~P-1~PRDLT-84847384-99510543

    I have the LG one already, and I'm pretty happy with it seeing that i got it at $169, but I'm just wondering why the dell one is so much more expensive when it seems really bad compared to the LG one, except for the dot pitch I guess.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • twotimesadingotwotimesadingo Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Iolo wrote: »
    HITACHI Deskstar 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive for $50 on NewEgg with promo code EMCKJKC22 through 1/9. Promo is actually only $5 off, but that still seems like a really good price for a name brand 1 TB HDD.

    Other weekend deals here. A few solid ones, including $15 off G.SKILL Ripjaws 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1333 RAM with promo code EMCKJKC34.



    Jesus Christo! Some of these deals really, really make me want to jump on buying a few parts. The SeaSonic 750 for that price being a good example. I just don't have any intention of actually building in the next year.

    Anyone who's followed prices more closely than I think I should pick up that PSU and just hold on to it until I build, given how low that price seems? Or should I do the common thing, and just wait it out.

    twotimesadingo on
    PSN: peepshowofforce
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Question because I can't find it anywhere anymore but didn't it get posted on the internet a few weeks ago about some tweak you can make to one of the ATI xx50 to make it perform on par with an xx70? Does anyone know which series of cards that it because I can't remember or find anything about it from terrible google-fu.

    initiatefailure on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Antihippy wrote: »
    So wait, why is this dell moniter so expensive?

    http://au.shopping.com/xSBS-Dell-U2311H-LG-LG-W2353V-PF-Black-23-2ms-GTG-HDMI-Full-HD-1080P-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor-300-cd-m2-50000-1-w-Smart~PT-xPO~P-1~PRDLT-84847384-99510543

    I have the LG one already, and I'm pretty happy with it seeing that i got it at $169, but I'm just wondering why the dell one is so much more expensive when it seems really bad compared to the LG one, except for the dot pitch I guess.

    It's an IPS panel. Vastly superior to TN panels. Good price for an IPS panel.

    Djeet on
  • kleinfehnkleinfehn Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Question because I can't find it anywhere anymore but didn't it get posted on the internet a few weeks ago about some tweak you can make to one of the ATI xx50 to make it perform on par with an xx70? Does anyone know which series of cards that it because I can't remember or find anything about it from terrible google-fu.

    It is the 6850.

    Link: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=335359

    kleinfehn on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Question because I can't find it anywhere anymore but didn't it get posted on the internet a few weeks ago about some tweak you can make to one of the ATI xx50 to make it perform on par with an xx70? Does anyone know which series of cards that it because I can't remember or find anything about it from terrible google-fu.

    At this point 6950s can be turned into 6970s.
    Apparently currently shipping Radeon HD 6950 cards from all manufacturers - which actually are all the same card with different sticker - have their shaders locked via the BIOS method, so we can exploit it easily.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/159

    You have to flash the bios.

    They even come with a handy bios recovery switch.

    It can save you $70. If you are looking to get one make sure you search around to see if the card you want is capable of it. Although it seems all of them at this point are capable of it.

    Macro9 on
    bO0v7.png
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Djeet wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    So wait, why is this dell moniter so expensive?

    http://au.shopping.com/xSBS-Dell-U2311H-LG-LG-W2353V-PF-Black-23-2ms-GTG-HDMI-Full-HD-1080P-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor-300-cd-m2-50000-1-w-Smart~PT-xPO~P-1~PRDLT-84847384-99510543

    I have the LG one already, and I'm pretty happy with it seeing that i got it at $169, but I'm just wondering why the dell one is so much more expensive when it seems really bad compared to the LG one, except for the dot pitch I guess.

    It's an IPS panel. Vastly superior to TN panels. Good price for an IPS panel.

    Hmmmm, looks like I should have researched more on the differences between IPS and TN lcd types.

    Stiill, it seems that my LG moniter is still excellent general purpose wise, and it should be possible to dual moniter a TN moniter for games and general purpose stuff with an IPS moniter for graphic production stuff right?

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If I were to go the intel path do I go 1155, 1156 or 1366?

    I don't understand these numbers!

    EDIT: Also what are good brands for PSUs? right now looking at antec truepower 650W

    Burning Organ on
  • FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    If I were to go the intel path do I go 1155, 1156 or 1366?

    I don't understand these numbers!

    At this point, 1155, unless you're building a workstation of some sort.

    Fats on
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Alright, thanks.

    God if only this fucking site had some descriptions on the motherboards.

    EDIT: Okay, new build, thoughts?
    PSU:
    Antec TruePower New TP-650 650W
    0761345076593
    79,80€
    GPU:
    PowerColor Radeon HD 6870 1024MB
    4712505026961
    227,00€
    Case:
    Fractal Design Define R3, Silver Arrow
    7350041080459
    97,00€
    CPU:
    Intel Core i5-2400, 4 x 3.1GHz, 95W, boxed
    5032037011686
    191,00€
    MOBO:
    Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3, P67
    4719331842161
    136,80€
    RAMS:
    Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 4GB CL9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600
    0843591005975
    85,90€


    832,00€

    I'll probably add a harddrive and some DVD reader/burner(Sick of my old IDE using one)

    EDIT EDIT: Actually I might skip the GPU and get it next paycheck instead.

    Burning Organ on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Alright, thanks.

    God if only this fucking site had some descriptions on the motherboards.

    EDIT: Okay, new build, thoughts?
    PSU:
    Antec TruePower New TP-650 650W
    0761345076593
    79,80€
    GPU:
    PowerColor Radeon HD 6870 1024MB
    4712505026961
    227,00€
    Case:
    Fractal Design Define R3, Silver Arrow
    7350041080459
    97,00€
    CPU:
    Intel Core i5-2400, 4 x 3.1GHz, 95W, boxed
    5032037011686
    191,00€
    MOBO:
    Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3, P67
    4719331842161
    136,80€
    RAMS:
    Corsair XMS3 DIMM Kit 4GB CL9-9-9-24 DDR3-1600
    0843591005975
    85,90€


    832,00€

    I'll probably add a harddrive and some DVD reader/burner(Sick of my old IDE using one)

    EDIT EDIT: Actually I might skip the GPU and get it next paycheck instead.

    Everything looks fine unless you are looking to crossfire down that road. The other PCI Express x16 is locked at 4x.

    Also do you plan on using the on chip GPU until you get a dedicated one? I don't see a graphics port anywhere in the specification list for that board.

    Macro9 on
    bO0v7.png
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm not looking to crossfire and I'll probably use my 4870 (I think that's what it is)

    It should hold together for a month.

    Burning Organ on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm not looking to crossfire and I'll probably use my 4870 (I think that's what it is)

    It should hold together for a month.

    Well, you're good to go then.

    Macro9 on
    bO0v7.png
  • Burning OrganBurning Organ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Thanks.

    One last question, does it matter if i take one 4 gb RAM stick or 2x2 gb RAM sticks? I mean would the dual channel thing increase the performance at all?

    Burning Organ on
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    absolutely

    if you can dual channel your ram, you should dual channel your ram

    replace 'double' with 'triple' if you have a mobo that does that instead

    Dehumanized on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    FINAL parts list.

    Decided to go with the i5 2400 for now because i honestly have no need for overclocking and I could always upgrade later.

    Lian li lancool pc-k58
    Intel core i5 2400
    Sapphire radeon 5770
    Western Digital caviar black 1TB
    Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
    Asus P8P67 motherboard
    Samsung SH-S223C SATA DVDRW Drive
    Corsair TX-750 Power Supply
    Windows 7 64bit OEM
    Windows Intellimice explorer 3.0
    Static wristbands

    Which brings the total to a nice round $1150.

    edit; might actually just put in $10 more for the 2500.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • PirusuPirusu Pierce Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Antihippy wrote: »
    FINAL parts list.

    Decided to go with the i5 2400 for now because i honestly have no need for overclocking and I could always upgrade later.

    Lian li lancool pc-k58
    Intel core i5 2400
    Sapphire radeon 5770
    Western Digital caviar black 1TB
    Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
    Asus P8P67 motherboard
    Samsung SH-S223C SATA DVDRW Drive
    Corsair TX-750 Power Supply
    Windows 7 64bit OEM
    Windows Intellimice explorer 3.0
    Static wristbands

    Which brings the total to a nice round $1150.

    edit; might actually just put in $10 more for the 2500.

    If it were me, I'd throw in the few extra bucks for one of the "K" processors. If you ever want the possibility of even ATTEMPTING to even mildly overclock your processor, you'll need one of the K processors. Intel has really gimped the OCing crowd, and there are basically no options for adjusting anything on a non-k processor.

    Also, you'll be a little GPU limited, but you've set up a nice upgrade path for that. Looks good!

    Pirusu on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, thing is, there's no one selling the 2500K in australia by tuesday, which is pretty much my deadline of getting a new computer. Basically I'm sick of using a tiny eeePC netbook as my main computer.

    So unless I can find someone selling it by then, I'll have to settle for the non-K version. And it's not as if 3.3 ghz is all that bad in the first place. :P

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard It's never lupines Irvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011

    Oh just to clarify, footprint is a huge deal. I want something about as small as an iPhone which that one is supposed to be, because it will practically live in my laptop bag. Something as big as a VHS tape is way too big. Also it needs to be something that will be powered by the USB. Any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

    Edit: other possibilities.
    http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-FreeAgent-Ultra-Portable-External-STAA500100/dp/B003BLQHN4/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

    http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-StoreJet-Portable-External-2-5-Inch/dp/tech-data/B00205BYZ8/ref=de_a_smtd

    The_Spaniard on
    Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Antihippy wrote: »
    FINAL parts list.

    Decided to go with the i5 2400 for now because i honestly have no need for overclocking and I could always upgrade later.

    Lian li lancool pc-k58
    Intel core i5 2400
    Sapphire radeon 5770
    Western Digital caviar black 1TB
    Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
    Asus P8P67 motherboard
    Samsung SH-S223C SATA DVDRW Drive
    Corsair TX-750 Power Supply
    Windows 7 64bit OEM
    Windows Intellimice explorer 3.0
    Static wristbands

    Which brings the total to a nice round $1150.

    edit; might actually just put in $10 more for the 2500.

    Static wristbands are a waste. I'm also into the "tell everyone to wait for Sandy Bridge" phase of PC advice but I'm always the one who says wait anyways.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, I'd ignore the static wristbands too. Just make sure to touch part of the chassis before working with the components, and work in whatever passes for a low static environment you can use. You have to be pretty phenomenally unlucky to fry something with static electricity.

    Dehumanized on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So now that the new chips are out I'm getting my computer together. I'm going for the new high-end i7 2600K and plugging it into an ASUS P8P67 PRO. Now I need to settle on a video card. Is this what I should be looking for? I don't want absolute top-of-the-line but I want something that'll let me play games at good specs for at least the next 4 years. It says it uses PCIe 2.1, but the mobo says it only supports 2.0.

    I also need memory. I'm guessing 2 x 2GB sticks? What's the difference between

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145290
    and
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145285

    besides the price tag?

    Terrendos on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, I'd ignore the static wristbands too. Just make sure to touch part of the chassis before working with the components, and work in whatever passes for a low static environment you can use. You have to be pretty phenomenally unlucky to fry something with static electricity.

    hmmm, I would be working on a wooden desk standing on vinyl floors. Is that ok?

    Also, should i rest my motherboard on the anti-static bag it comes with while working on it?

    Argh, now I'm thinking of ditching the anti static wrist bands and downgrading to a core i5 2400 and use the money saved in order to buy the P8P67 pro. Since I'm going to upgrade my CPU in the future anyway might as well get the better motherboard first right?

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I was looking at Newegg, even though they don't post to Australia, and it turns out it would cost about the same to buy a 2600k there as a 2600 here, and we don't get the ks in for who knows how long. With that in mind, would anyone be willing to order it and post it to me? I know it's a bit of an ask, but obviously I'd cover all the postage costs and whatnot. Thanks!

    AnteCantelope on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    In case anyone is interested Microcenter is selling the Sandy Bridge chips for $50 less across the board than Newegg. I believe Frys does price matching with them.

    Macro9 on
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This discussion has been closed.