The Codex was good, but it desperately needed a smart ass character like Dresden. Everyone always took everything so seriously, especially the villains, and sometimes it made their dialogue feel like the setup to a non-existent punchline.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
His current fixation in book two is reffering to arrows as shafts. as in "the shaft penetrated the soldier" or "he drew the shaft back in preparation". Once or twice is fine, but I giggle now because he uses shaft every time. It's ok to call it an arrow dude, we'll understand.
His biggest blunder in the entire Codex Alera series is how everyone has magic, yet everyone doesn't use it half the damn time. It be like Harry using a (non magic) sword half the time. Harry has guns to fall back on, but short of modern day weapons you USE MAGIC. I hope Harry doesn't start running around in armor and wielding a blade now that
His biggest blunder in the entire Codex Alera series is how everyone has magic, yet everyone doesn't use it half the damn time. It be like Harry using a (non magic) sword half the time. Harry has guns to fall back on, but short of modern day weapons you USE MAGIC. I hope Harry doesn't start running around in armor and wielding a blade now that
he's the Winter Knight...
And when is Cold Days coming out...
Oddly my BIGGEST complaint about the Codex Alera books is they're too action-packed. He had a rather interesting world and society lurking in there, but we're never able to really examine it. Often the multiple PoVs were just a shortcut way of quickly giving the readers information, so that he doesn't have to have Tavi or one of the other protagonists actually find things out. It certainly wasn't bad, but I just felt like there were so many times that a slightly higher page count and more ambition could have made them such better books:
* The rape and threatened rape scenes of book 1 were just really awkward. Plus that the guy was too cartoonishly villainous to survive a week in any logical universe.
* And conversely, that the supposed real villains of book 1 were getting so built up that it became obvious that they were bulletproof. Aaand yet basically only show up in cameos for the rest of the series.
* Kitai is great, but I was annoyed at how nobody really ever asks any questions about their bond. Especially in later books when half of their conversations are non-vocal and don't even make sense outside of their PoV's (which was a cool detail) nobody ever seems to ask the super-super obvious questions. Especially Tavi's family members, who get like a total of 1 scene with Tavi after book 1. Isana gets like a one paragraph scene with Kitai, basically going "So, you and Tavi are bonded? Cool I guess," and then they have a quick Robert Jordan-esque Female Bonding Moment laughing at silly men. Which comes across as especially odd since in book 1 her people are barely even considered human, and certainly aren't described as looking or acting particularly human. Kitai's whole "I'm the only member of my tribe " thing also gets dropped. It felt like she got neglected in favor of Tavi's character growth - while he's got ambitions and friends and responsibilities, she's just kind of got Tavi.
* Almost every book is Bernard and Amara on one storyline, Isana being mopey somewhere on her own, and Tavi being awesome. Seriously, we can't mix it up a little? Especially since Tavi keeps meeting new, interesting characters who stick around, while the other two plotlines either don't meet anyone new, or the new character is obviously fated to die soon.
* The whole book 6 just felt like he had gone overboard on the 'Oh no we're facing impossible odds!', right until he realized it's now like 20,000 troops vs. a million bugs. And then the brilliant way they save the day is Tavi in a DBZ battle against the queen. I guess I'm just sick of standard hero progressions of 'Hero, you must save your Town/City/Region/Nation/World, in that order!'
It's not that I hated the series, I actually burned right through them, it just felt like he was speeding past the most interesting ideas in his story in favor of putting out books quickly.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
@Kana - If you get time and haven't yet, listen to some of Butcher's audio clips when he talks about Alera. Basically he wrote the series on a dare from another author. It's quite interesting to hear his spin on how he created the world. I don't disagree with your comments. In addition to what you posted i thought the biggest issue was the secret grandpa had that Tavi "inherited".
I think one of the weaknesses you pointed out is an issue that Butcher has in the Dresden world. The female characters are only interesting in their interaction with/about Dresden. Alone they seem very drull.
@Kana - If you get time and haven't yet, listen to some of Butcher's audio clips when he talks about Alera. Basically he wrote the series on a dare from another author. It's quite interesting to hear his spin on how he created the world. I don't disagree with your comments. In addition to what you posted i thought the biggest issue was the secret grandpa had that Tavi "inherited".
I think one of the weaknesses you pointed out is an issue that Butcher has in the Dresden world. The female characters are only interesting in their interaction with/about Dresden. Alone they seem very drull.
I'm about to start book 1 of Dresden files. Haven't read any of them before, though I've heard a few spoilers, mostly about certain far off, uh, important character deaths. And yeah, I had initially read book 1 of Alera as part of a forum book club, and I was already asking in book 1 if
he's actually the prince - and I was hoping it was a red herring. It's just such an easy way for Tavi to inherit the kingdom, even though by book 5 he would've been a contender for the position if he wasn't related - and that would've been more interesting! Which just goes back to my whole beef with the series, that the author seems smarter than what he's writing, but sort of lazy (or maybe just overly-efficient). If book 6 had just been about Tavi trying to save Kitai, the stakes to me would've felt higher than him trying to save the world, because you already know when it's time to save the world the hero always does. And as I wrote somewhere else about the Book of the Long Sun, lower stakes tend to be a lot more interesting from a characterization standpoint. When the only choice is to fight or have all humanity wiped out, everyone's gonna be fighting, it takes no particular heroic resolve. Only when losing is an option is the conflict heroic. (Granted there's like a zillion well-written examples disproving that, but I still wish more authors would write small.
EDIT: Insert bitching about Tavi's strategic 'genius' is just not doing incredibly stupid things and refusing to listen to clearly established facts, which is what apparently every other general of this incredibly militant society does, whose entire cultural bedrock is founded on disciplined soldiering and blasting dudes with furies.
I will say that Codex Alera suffered a bit in my esteem for getting read back-to-back, and I probably wouldn't have minded the 'Like the last book, only more so!' plotting nearly as much if I was reading them on yearly delays. I had also just read through another one of Lois McMaster Bujold's recent fantasy books, which are awful and definitely put me in a author-hating frame of mind.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
since this is the dresden topic i'm not going to feel too bad about spoilering anything but i'll keep it vague as to the origins of alera. essentially he was having a debate with another author over (and this is me remembering it so no quoting) whether a compelling story needed to be original or just done by a good author. butcher claimed that he could take any old (hmm i want to say trope but more like) idea and make a compelling novel. The author challenged him to write a compelling story about the "lost legion" and he said he'd top it by adding Pokemon in addition to lost legion. Thus you have codex alera.
Think I'm going to side with his opponent in that debate. Got half way through the first book and realized that reading it was about as fun and interesting as watching paint dry, haven't gone back to it since.
I wouldn't say it was silly, it just builds up the odds against them a little too much. And everyone is STILL not using magic properly with a few exceptions...
Xeddicus on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Codex Alera peaked in the middle. Captain's Fury was an amazing book. First Lord's Fury felt like he wrote it not really knowing how to end the series.
@Kana - If you get time and haven't yet, listen to some of Butcher's audio clips when he talks about Alera. Basically he wrote the series on a dare from another author. It's quite interesting to hear his spin on how he created the world. I don't disagree with your comments. In addition to what you posted i thought the biggest issue was the secret grandpa had that Tavi "inherited".
I think one of the weaknesses you pointed out is an issue that Butcher has in the Dresden world. The female characters are only interesting in their interaction with/about Dresden. Alone they seem very drull.
I'm about to start book 1 of Dresden files. Haven't read any of them before, though I've heard a few spoilers, mostly about certain far off, uh, important character deaths. And yeah, I had initially read book 1 of Alera as part of a forum book club, and I was already asking in book 1 if
he's actually the prince - and I was hoping it was a red herring. It's just such an easy way for Tavi to inherit the kingdom, even though by book 5 he would've been a contender for the position if he wasn't related - and that would've been more interesting! Which just goes back to my whole beef with the series, that the author seems smarter than what he's writing, but sort of lazy (or maybe just overly-efficient). If book 6 had just been about Tavi trying to save Kitai, the stakes to me would've felt higher than him trying to save the world, because you already know when it's time to save the world the hero always does. And as I wrote somewhere else about the Book of the Long Sun, lower stakes tend to be a lot more interesting from a characterization standpoint. When the only choice is to fight or have all humanity wiped out, everyone's gonna be fighting, it takes no particular heroic resolve. Only when losing is an option is the conflict heroic. (Granted there's like a zillion well-written examples disproving that, but I still wish more authors would write small.
EDIT: Insert bitching about Tavi's strategic 'genius' is just not doing incredibly stupid things and refusing to listen to clearly established facts, which is what apparently every other general of this incredibly militant society does, whose entire cultural bedrock is founded on disciplined soldiering and blasting dudes with furies.
I will say that Codex Alera suffered a bit in my esteem for getting read back-to-back, and I probably wouldn't have minded the 'Like the last book, only more so!' plotting nearly as much if I was reading them on yearly delays. I had also just read through another one of Lois McMaster Bujold's recent fantasy books, which are awful and definitely put me in a author-hating frame of mind.
Man, I don't know what you're talking about. Lois Bujold's fantasy stuff is fantastic (although not quite up to the Vorkosigan novels). I'm going to guess you went into the Sharing Knife series expecting something different than it was.
@Kana - If you get time and haven't yet, listen to some of Butcher's audio clips when he talks about Alera. Basically he wrote the series on a dare from another author. It's quite interesting to hear his spin on how he created the world. I don't disagree with your comments. In addition to what you posted i thought the biggest issue was the secret grandpa had that Tavi "inherited".
I think one of the weaknesses you pointed out is an issue that Butcher has in the Dresden world. The female characters are only interesting in their interaction with/about Dresden. Alone they seem very drull.
I'm about to start book 1 of Dresden files. Haven't read any of them before, though I've heard a few spoilers, mostly about certain far off, uh, important character deaths. And yeah, I had initially read book 1 of Alera as part of a forum book club, and I was already asking in book 1 if
he's actually the prince - and I was hoping it was a red herring. It's just such an easy way for Tavi to inherit the kingdom, even though by book 5 he would've been a contender for the position if he wasn't related - and that would've been more interesting! Which just goes back to my whole beef with the series, that the author seems smarter than what he's writing, but sort of lazy (or maybe just overly-efficient). If book 6 had just been about Tavi trying to save Kitai, the stakes to me would've felt higher than him trying to save the world, because you already know when it's time to save the world the hero always does. And as I wrote somewhere else about the Book of the Long Sun, lower stakes tend to be a lot more interesting from a characterization standpoint. When the only choice is to fight or have all humanity wiped out, everyone's gonna be fighting, it takes no particular heroic resolve. Only when losing is an option is the conflict heroic. (Granted there's like a zillion well-written examples disproving that, but I still wish more authors would write small.
EDIT: Insert bitching about Tavi's strategic 'genius' is just not doing incredibly stupid things and refusing to listen to clearly established facts, which is what apparently every other general of this incredibly militant society does, whose entire cultural bedrock is founded on disciplined soldiering and blasting dudes with furies.
I will say that Codex Alera suffered a bit in my esteem for getting read back-to-back, and I probably wouldn't have minded the 'Like the last book, only more so!' plotting nearly as much if I was reading them on yearly delays. I had also just read through another one of Lois McMaster Bujold's recent fantasy books, which are awful and definitely put me in a author-hating frame of mind.
Man, I don't know what you're talking about. Lois Bujold's fantasy stuff is fantastic (although not quite up to the Vorkosigan novels). I'm going to guess you went into the Sharing Knife series expecting something different than it was.
I frickin' hate that line. "Oh, you just didn't like it because you were expecting something different." Yes, because my only criterion for books is how much I can predict in advance? The first book was alright, pretty standard quick little fantasy story. Didn't really see any reason for it to continue, but alright. The second book was meh. The third book put me to sleep. Dag and farmgirl are boring characters, and by the third book of them telling each other how gosh darn swell they are I was hoping one of them would get run over by a donkey.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
OK, so I read book 1 of Dresden last night. Pretty fun read. He does a good job in that book of introducing a lot of ideas and characters for future use, while still getting plenty of use out of them. Aaaand as is apparently my response to all of Jim Butcher's books, I was also left scratching my head over some of his storytelling decisions. I'll put my specific thoughts in spoilers below, but if there's something I mention that ends up getting brought up or corrected in later books, please don't tell me! I've only read through book 1 and like 20 pages of book 2.
Of course, this being a detective novel you immediately know that both mysteries are going to be tied together in the end, so Butcher doesn't really seem to spend a lot of effort trying to pretend they won't be. I suppose he figured we'll all predict it anyway, so there's no point throwing out a bunch of red herrings, but on the other hand that still means you're spending the middle of the book going "harry, the husband! THE HUSBAND HARRY." The wife ever getting in touch with him still felt a bit odd though, but then that's hardly a unique problem to PI stories in general, so I can't judge it too harshly.
Harry seems to have incredible difficulty convincing people he's not a fake, considering all you have to do is look him in the eye, or be a sleazy photographer who Harry wants to intimidate. The photographer angle in general seemed to be rather pointless, if the chauffeur knew who was doing the killings already, why did Harry think she didn't know? Why did she suddenly call up the cops and act like she suddenly knew the Truth? If she did know, why was she pissing in the dude's cereal by having a photographer snap photos? Why is the photographer apparently genetically incapable of not dropping his film all over the place? For that matter, why do you order pizza to your secret lair and then immediately start your evil sex ritual? Can't you just wait the 20 minutes? Or at least CLOSE THE SHADES?! They've got random photographers and pizzaboys wandering all over the property apparently. Anyway, Harry ends up giving the film back to the photographer (and then lighting it on fire) in exchange for basically nothing he didn't already know. As opposed to just keeping the film and having photos of the entire cabal. Doesn't really seem like a great deal to me.
Harry's inability with phones and general technology is not really a trope I mind, even though it's transparently an easy author trick to stop Harry from just calling for backup or sharing notes.
Anyway, most of that is just nitpicking. My real complaint with the book is the female characters. And I'm not even convinced my complaint is valid, but it's definitely noticeable. On the one hand, Harry's basically living in a film noir world, land of dames and femme fatales, and I keep thinking maybe the author is purposefully channeling a bit of The Big Sleep. On the other hand, our female characters are:
The first victim: Previously hot whore whose heart does a "potato in a microwave" impression.
The Wife: Described as hot. Turns out to be part of the Evil Sex Ring and was molested as a kid.
That emotionless wife with the dead daughter: Described as hot, but creepy. Why is she emotionless and her husband isn't, exactly? Her primary duty is as a Sex Battery for Victor.
The Chauffeur and ex-whore: Also hot. Bisexual freaky ex-whore who gets all flirty with Dresden and also part-times as a Sex Battery.
The Vampire Superwhore: Freaky vampire whore who gets ugly. Gives Harry a lesbian show on the way out.
Susan: Sexpot columnist whose date with Harry goes south fast. Drinks all of Harry's spanish fly. They've apparently entered an equitable bodily-fluid swapping agreement by the end of the book.
Murphy: Once again, hot. Her body gets described basically everytime she shows up. Not to sound like too much of an anime nerd, but quite the tsundere. I kept waiting for her to start blushing and yelling "I-It's not like I like you or anything!!" Basically totally fails everytime she tries to do actual detective work.
Then we've got Harry Dresden saying how he's just old-fashioned, wants to treat girls like treasures and protect those defenseless widdle ladies, and I'm just left wondering if it's Dresden or Butcher who's the neckbeard. Because that's pretty classic internet neckbeard right there. Especially when I've already had some complaints about the female characters in Codex Alera.
Anyway, I'm moving into book 2 now. Butcher is weird as an author for me, because after every book of his I mostly just want to complain, and yet I'm still happy to read more of him.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
The 2nd book is worse than the 1st, but the 1st is, above all, a detective + fantasy mash-up, so most of the stuff you cite is put there on purpose because that's how things are supposed to go in a detective book.
A few books later and it's a fantasy series with detective trappings. That's where you can decide whether or not you like it.
Ugh. Man, the first few Dresden books were a slog. I thought I was the victim of an elaborate practical joke. But they really do get immensely better. The leap in quality is kind of staggering.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I think book 3 is where it really takes off. I don't mind 1 and 2, but I'll agree that they're the weakest of the series.
4 and beyond do continue uphill in quality, and there's some understandable eye rolling involved at a few plot points, but I'm just that big a fan of Michael.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
One and two aren't awful but not as good as 4 and on. I think five and six are where they really hit the stride and partially give up the ghost of being a detective story and become more modern fantasy. And from then on they get more crazy and more entertaining. Also the characters change a bit but don't want to say how considering some of the events are pretty big spoilers.
If I recommended the series to someone, I would probably advise them to start with book 3. Those first two don't contribute all that much to the overall plot, and they're a very poor indication of the series' quality. Both times I've read through the books, I got stuck for weeks on Fool Moon because I just couldn't work up the motivation to keep going unless I had absolutely nothing else to do.
Missing character introductions isn't a big deal when Butcher recaps them in every new book. No matter where you start, you'll soon find out that Murphy is a five foot nothing who could kick your ass, Marcone is a merciless gangster with eyes the color of dollar bills, etc.
I enjoyed the first book for what it was, but I've seen too many people mention giving up the series within the first two. I'd rather start someone off with a better book, and it's not like they can't go back and see what they missed later, after they've gotten hooked.
Halfway into book 2 so far. It's not that great, but it's also not that long, nor offensively bad. Murphy is still a freaking retard and if Dresden ever stopped thinking how adorable she looks he might realize she's like the worst friend ever. Plus she keeps accusing Dresden of Law and Order style made-up offenses, like 'obstruction of justice' for not answering a question, which is not actually a crime. Otherwise it's not quite as bad on the female characters as book 1, although the main point of description about Kim was her rack.
Oh, and Dresden needs to stop getting shot in the shoulder and then walking it off.
EDIT: Harry's basic strategy re: Murphy seems to be: Is there information you know about Murphy's case? -> Don't tell her, it could endanger her -> Murphy's in danger because she walked into a situation she didn't know was dangerous? -> That's just proof that this is too dangerous to give Murphy any more information!
Then Murphy will call him out on his misogyny and he's like 'Aww, that's adorable where did you learn such a big word?'
EDITING THE EDIT: Oh, ok, now Tera's naked too, in possibly the most obvious distraction ever. Butcher was slacking for a little while there.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I'm not going to lie... reading the first two Dresden books, all I could think the whole time was that old cyber sex internet meme "I put on my wizard hat and robe..."
it took me a bit to take anything he wrote seriously. And even now sometimes I just have to roll my eyes. But they are very entertaining now.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
The worst part about book 2 is Murphy backsliding. Her whole arc in book 1 is about learning to trust Harry and she basically goes completely backwards in book 2 even before the events start!
the first three books are not "chronologically" tied together. You can read them in any order to get information about characters and some events but it isn't until book 4 that things are chronologically important. Take the first three books as independent stories with a cross-over cast.
OK, so I read book 1 of Dresden last night. Pretty fun read. He does a good job in that book of introducing a lot of ideas and characters for future use, while still getting plenty of use out of them. Aaaand as is apparently my response to all of Jim Butcher's books, I was also left scratching my head over some of his storytelling decisions. I'll put my specific thoughts in spoilers below, but if there's something I mention that ends up getting brought up or corrected in later books, please don't tell me! I've only read through book 1 and like 20 pages of book 2.
Of course, this being a detective novel you immediately know that both mysteries are going to be tied together in the end, so Butcher doesn't really seem to spend a lot of effort trying to pretend they won't be. I suppose he figured we'll all predict it anyway, so there's no point throwing out a bunch of red herrings, but on the other hand that still means you're spending the middle of the book going "harry, the husband! THE HUSBAND HARRY." The wife ever getting in touch with him still felt a bit odd though, but then that's hardly a unique problem to PI stories in general, so I can't judge it too harshly.
Harry seems to have incredible difficulty convincing people he's not a fake, considering all you have to do is look him in the eye, or be a sleazy photographer who Harry wants to intimidate. The photographer angle in general seemed to be rather pointless, if the chauffeur knew who was doing the killings already, why did Harry think she didn't know? Why did she suddenly call up the cops and act like she suddenly knew the Truth? If she did know, why was she pissing in the dude's cereal by having a photographer snap photos? Why is the photographer apparently genetically incapable of not dropping his film all over the place? For that matter, why do you order pizza to your secret lair and then immediately start your evil sex ritual? Can't you just wait the 20 minutes? Or at least CLOSE THE SHADES?! They've got random photographers and pizzaboys wandering all over the property apparently. Anyway, Harry ends up giving the film back to the photographer (and then lighting it on fire) in exchange for basically nothing he didn't already know. As opposed to just keeping the film and having photos of the entire cabal. Doesn't really seem like a great deal to me.
Harry's inability with phones and general technology is not really a trope I mind, even though it's transparently an easy author trick to stop Harry from just calling for backup or sharing notes.
Anyway, most of that is just nitpicking. My real complaint with the book is the female characters. And I'm not even convinced my complaint is valid, but it's definitely noticeable. On the one hand, Harry's basically living in a film noir world, land of dames and femme fatales, and I keep thinking maybe the author is purposefully channeling a bit of The Big Sleep. On the other hand, our female characters are:
The first victim: Previously hot whore whose heart does a "potato in a microwave" impression.
The Wife: Described as hot. Turns out to be part of the Evil Sex Ring and was molested as a kid.
That emotionless wife with the dead daughter: Described as hot, but creepy. Why is she emotionless and her husband isn't, exactly? Her primary duty is as a Sex Battery for Victor.
The Chauffeur and ex-whore: Also hot. Bisexual freaky ex-whore who gets all flirty with Dresden and also part-times as a Sex Battery.
The Vampire Superwhore: Freaky vampire whore who gets ugly. Gives Harry a lesbian show on the way out.
Susan: Sexpot columnist whose date with Harry goes south fast. Drinks all of Harry's spanish fly. They've apparently entered an equitable bodily-fluid swapping agreement by the end of the book.
Murphy: Once again, hot. Her body gets described basically everytime she shows up. Not to sound like too much of an anime nerd, but quite the tsundere. I kept waiting for her to start blushing and yelling "I-It's not like I like you or anything!!" Basically totally fails everytime she tries to do actual detective work.
Then we've got Harry Dresden saying how he's just old-fashioned, wants to treat girls like treasures and protect those defenseless widdle ladies, and I'm just left wondering if it's Dresden or Butcher who's the neckbeard. Because that's pretty classic internet neckbeard right there. Especially when I've already had some complaints about the female characters in Codex Alera.
Anyway, I'm moving into book 2 now. Butcher is weird as an author for me, because after every book of his I mostly just want to complain, and yet I'm still happy to read more of him.
Eventually the characterization gets better and deeper. The women are always hot though. Butcher really, really loves the female form.
Halfway into book 2 so far. It's not that great, but it's also not that long, nor offensively bad. Murphy is still a freaking retard and if Dresden ever stopped thinking how adorable she looks he might realize she's like the worst friend ever. Plus she keeps accusing Dresden of Law and Order style made-up offenses, like 'obstruction of justice' for not answering a question, which is not actually a crime. Otherwise it's not quite as bad on the female characters as book 1, although the main point of description about Kim was her rack.
Oh, and Dresden needs to stop getting shot in the shoulder and then walking it off.
EDIT: Harry's basic strategy re: Murphy seems to be: Is there information you know about Murphy's case? -> Don't tell her, it could endanger her -> Murphy's in danger because she walked into a situation she didn't know was dangerous? -> That's just proof that this is too dangerous to give Murphy any more information!
Then Murphy will call him out on his misogyny and he's like 'Aww, that's adorable where did you learn such a big word?'
EDITING THE EDIT: Oh, ok, now Tera's naked too, in possibly the most obvious distraction ever. Butcher was slacking for a little while there.
Harry gets better about the info thing as well. Its part of his character development.
Murph really is out classed, especially at the start, so Harry isn't just being a macho jerk even in the start. And he knows she wont leave it alone, so his 'neck-bearding' really is more Knight In Shinning Armor than not. Though Murph (and others) have issues with that, too.
I can't really blame early books Murphy for her issues with Dresden. Imagine it like he's a PI with mob connections instead of wizardy ones.
Stuff happens, he never tells her the whole story.
People die for reasons she's certain he knows but won't tell her.
He knows the perps personally in some cases, and there's evidence he was at murder scenes and talking to victims just before they died under mysterious circumstances.
Sure he says it's for perfectly innocent reasons, and occasionally he's instrumental in solving crimes.
But there's always that nagging doubt he's pulling a Keyser Soze.
Fool Moon was just hilariously constructed. "Let me tell you about four kinds of monsters on the same theme. No reason. Just saying." Then all four kinds of monsters show up. I kinda liked the Mystery Wolf Lady though. Changes:
She would've made a good curveball team member for the Fellowship assault on Chitchen Itza. Probably would have had a hilarious conversation with Mouse.
OKAY. Finished book 2. Yeah, that wasn't very good. Mostly because of this:
Fool Moon was just hilariously constructed. "Let me tell you about four kinds of monsters on the same theme. No reason. Just saying." Then all four kinds of monsters show up
I don't know why he thought that was a good idea.
So yeah, now there's this Michael guy. Is he just a total retcon in? Because I feel like I suddenly skipped a couple of books. His character also seems to keep bouncing between following the god of generic goodness and following Mr. Catholic Jesus Christ. I guess part of my concern so far is that book 1 totally built towards book 2. Book 3 is just suddenly happening and I'm a little concerned that he's not even really bothering to introduce Michael into the story so much as he is tossing him in and pretending he's been there the whole time.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Michael is awesome. Even if he was a retcon (he's not, he just could be introduced a tad better, I guess. It's more like a TV 'my best friend in the world is here this week and never again' introduction except he sticks around...) Michael can do that. Because he has God on his side. Are you going to really argue with the Almighty? Hmm? :P
Yeah, Michael is great, his introduction was so weird. I thought I'd missed an entire book.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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And when is Cold Days coming out...
Oddly my BIGGEST complaint about the Codex Alera books is they're too action-packed. He had a rather interesting world and society lurking in there, but we're never able to really examine it. Often the multiple PoVs were just a shortcut way of quickly giving the readers information, so that he doesn't have to have Tavi or one of the other protagonists actually find things out. It certainly wasn't bad, but I just felt like there were so many times that a slightly higher page count and more ambition could have made them such better books:
* And conversely, that the supposed real villains of book 1 were getting so built up that it became obvious that they were bulletproof. Aaand yet basically only show up in cameos for the rest of the series.
* Kitai is great, but I was annoyed at how nobody really ever asks any questions about their bond. Especially in later books when half of their conversations are non-vocal and don't even make sense outside of their PoV's (which was a cool detail) nobody ever seems to ask the super-super obvious questions. Especially Tavi's family members, who get like a total of 1 scene with Tavi after book 1. Isana gets like a one paragraph scene with Kitai, basically going "So, you and Tavi are bonded? Cool I guess," and then they have a quick Robert Jordan-esque Female Bonding Moment laughing at silly men. Which comes across as especially odd since in book 1 her people are barely even considered human, and certainly aren't described as looking or acting particularly human. Kitai's whole "I'm the only member of my tribe
* Almost every book is Bernard and Amara on one storyline, Isana being mopey somewhere on her own, and Tavi being awesome. Seriously, we can't mix it up a little? Especially since Tavi keeps meeting new, interesting characters who stick around, while the other two plotlines either don't meet anyone new, or the new character is obviously fated to die soon.
* The whole book 6 just felt like he had gone overboard on the 'Oh no we're facing impossible odds!', right until he realized it's now like 20,000 troops vs. a million bugs. And then the brilliant way they save the day is Tavi in a DBZ battle against the queen. I guess I'm just sick of standard hero progressions of 'Hero, you must save your Town/City/Region/Nation/World, in that order!'
It's not that I hated the series, I actually burned right through them, it just felt like he was speeding past the most interesting ideas in his story in favor of putting out books quickly.
I think one of the weaknesses you pointed out is an issue that Butcher has in the Dresden world. The female characters are only interesting in their interaction with/about Dresden. Alone they seem very drull.
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I'm about to start book 1 of Dresden files. Haven't read any of them before, though I've heard a few spoilers, mostly about certain far off, uh, important character deaths. And yeah, I had initially read book 1 of Alera as part of a forum book club, and I was already asking in book 1 if
EDIT: Insert bitching about Tavi's strategic 'genius' is just not doing incredibly stupid things and refusing to listen to clearly established facts, which is what apparently every other general of this incredibly militant society does, whose entire cultural bedrock is founded on disciplined soldiering and blasting dudes with furies.
I will say that Codex Alera suffered a bit in my esteem for getting read back-to-back, and I probably wouldn't have minded the 'Like the last book, only more so!' plotting nearly as much if I was reading them on yearly delays. I had also just read through another one of Lois McMaster Bujold's recent fantasy books, which are awful and definitely put me in a author-hating frame of mind.
And he started the Dresden Files as a "fuck you" to some writing teacher or something.
... does Butcher actually write anything just for the sake of writing?
Also, eagerly awaiting Cold Days.
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I frickin' hate that line. "Oh, you just didn't like it because you were expecting something different." Yes, because my only criterion for books is how much I can predict in advance? The first book was alright, pretty standard quick little fantasy story. Didn't really see any reason for it to continue, but alright. The second book was meh. The third book put me to sleep. Dag and farmgirl are boring characters, and by the third book of them telling each other how gosh darn swell they are I was hoping one of them would get run over by a donkey.
Harry seems to have incredible difficulty convincing people he's not a fake, considering all you have to do is look him in the eye, or be a sleazy photographer who Harry wants to intimidate. The photographer angle in general seemed to be rather pointless, if the chauffeur knew who was doing the killings already, why did Harry think she didn't know? Why did she suddenly call up the cops and act like she suddenly knew the Truth? If she did know, why was she pissing in the dude's cereal by having a photographer snap photos? Why is the photographer apparently genetically incapable of not dropping his film all over the place? For that matter, why do you order pizza to your secret lair and then immediately start your evil sex ritual? Can't you just wait the 20 minutes? Or at least CLOSE THE SHADES?! They've got random photographers and pizzaboys wandering all over the property apparently. Anyway, Harry ends up giving the film back to the photographer (and then lighting it on fire) in exchange for basically nothing he didn't already know. As opposed to just keeping the film and having photos of the entire cabal. Doesn't really seem like a great deal to me.
Harry's inability with phones and general technology is not really a trope I mind, even though it's transparently an easy author trick to stop Harry from just calling for backup or sharing notes.
Anyway, most of that is just nitpicking. My real complaint with the book is the female characters. And I'm not even convinced my complaint is valid, but it's definitely noticeable. On the one hand, Harry's basically living in a film noir world, land of dames and femme fatales, and I keep thinking maybe the author is purposefully channeling a bit of The Big Sleep. On the other hand, our female characters are:
The first victim: Previously hot whore whose heart does a "potato in a microwave" impression.
The Wife: Described as hot. Turns out to be part of the Evil Sex Ring and was molested as a kid.
That emotionless wife with the dead daughter: Described as hot, but creepy. Why is she emotionless and her husband isn't, exactly? Her primary duty is as a Sex Battery for Victor.
The Chauffeur and ex-whore: Also hot. Bisexual freaky ex-whore who gets all flirty with Dresden and also part-times as a Sex Battery.
The Vampire Superwhore: Freaky vampire whore who gets ugly. Gives Harry a lesbian show on the way out.
Susan: Sexpot columnist whose date with Harry goes south fast. Drinks all of Harry's spanish fly. They've apparently entered an equitable bodily-fluid swapping agreement by the end of the book.
Murphy: Once again, hot. Her body gets described basically everytime she shows up. Not to sound like too much of an anime nerd, but quite the tsundere. I kept waiting for her to start blushing and yelling "I-It's not like I like you or anything!!" Basically totally fails everytime she tries to do actual detective work.
Then we've got Harry Dresden saying how he's just old-fashioned, wants to treat girls like treasures and protect those defenseless widdle ladies, and I'm just left wondering if it's Dresden or Butcher who's the neckbeard. Because that's pretty classic internet neckbeard right there. Especially when I've already had some complaints about the female characters in Codex Alera.
Anyway, I'm moving into book 2 now. Butcher is weird as an author for me, because after every book of his I mostly just want to complain, and yet I'm still happy to read more of him.
As much as I enjoy the entire series, it will be worth it to slog through it now if you're even thinking about getting out now.
A few books later and it's a fantasy series with detective trappings. That's where you can decide whether or not you like it.
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4 and beyond do continue uphill in quality, and there's some understandable eye rolling involved at a few plot points, but I'm just that big a fan of Michael.
Plus both of them are short as hell.
I enjoyed the first book for what it was, but I've seen too many people mention giving up the series within the first two. I'd rather start someone off with a better book, and it's not like they can't go back and see what they missed later, after they've gotten hooked.
Oh, and Dresden needs to stop getting shot in the shoulder and then walking it off.
EDIT: Harry's basic strategy re: Murphy seems to be: Is there information you know about Murphy's case? -> Don't tell her, it could endanger her -> Murphy's in danger because she walked into a situation she didn't know was dangerous? -> That's just proof that this is too dangerous to give Murphy any more information!
Then Murphy will call him out on his misogyny and he's like 'Aww, that's adorable where did you learn such a big word?'
EDITING THE EDIT: Oh, ok, now Tera's naked too, in possibly the most obvious distraction ever. Butcher was slacking for a little while there.
it took me a bit to take anything he wrote seriously. And even now sometimes I just have to roll my eyes. But they are very entertaining now.
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Eventually the characterization gets better and deeper. The women are always hot though. Butcher really, really loves the female form.
I don't blame him. Greatest thing ever.
Harry gets better about the info thing as well. Its part of his character development.
Then again, later in the series you get a better picture of why he does that, and it makes more sense then. Still stupid, just not as stupid.
Stuff happens, he never tells her the whole story.
People die for reasons she's certain he knows but won't tell her.
He knows the perps personally in some cases, and there's evidence he was at murder scenes and talking to victims just before they died under mysterious circumstances.
Sure he says it's for perfectly innocent reasons, and occasionally he's instrumental in solving crimes.
But there's always that nagging doubt he's pulling a Keyser Soze.
I don't know why he thought that was a good idea.
So yeah, now there's this Michael guy. Is he just a total retcon in? Because I feel like I suddenly skipped a couple of books. His character also seems to keep bouncing between following the god of generic goodness and following Mr. Catholic Jesus Christ. I guess part of my concern so far is that book 1 totally built towards book 2. Book 3 is just suddenly happening and I'm a little concerned that he's not even really bothering to introduce Michael into the story so much as he is tossing him in and pretending he's been there the whole time.
Not so much that he's been there the whole time in regards to 1 and 2, but that they have worked together previously, at least once in a while.