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LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
edited May 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Oh hai I am a stupid slut who is stupid and can't form a good argument lolol

I realised I was wrong and I would really like my stupid post to go away now, if that's okay

Yup, I'm a coward

and also a whore

But at leasy I'm a cowardly stupid whore who can admit it, that has to count for something

While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
Lieberkuhn on
«1345

Posts

  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That first picture is really screwing with my mind because I can't unsee the giant cock going down that lady's torso.

    KalTorak on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

    Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Everything is hypersexualized

    40215_3.jpg

    People like playing extremes of femininity and masculinity, nothing new here

    Robman on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sentry wrote: »
    I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

    Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

    I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form

    Robman on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

    Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

    I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form

    I agree. I was more focusing on the reps comments.

    But if you want to pull at that thread, none of the guys look like hyper-sexualized 12 year olds in pseudo-school girl outfits. Not even the emo one.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Look at those damn abs.

    Leitner on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sentry wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

    Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

    I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form

    I agree. I was more focusing on the reps comments.

    But if you want to pull at that thread, none of the guys look like hyper-sexualized 12 year olds in school girl outfits.

    That's something that goes far beyond a single video game, and I don't know about you but I don't feel like digging into the apparent rampancy of pedophilia regarding schoolgirls in some cultures

    Robman on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    To be more on-topic, I get pretty universally turn-off by games the shamelessly go for the T&A (Soul Calibur comes to mind). Some are sort of skirting the line... I'd like to see more armor equality in WoW (back in vanilla days, my female character wore a set of pants that displayed as exactly no pants). I dunno, I haven't played many modern games so I don't have much perspective... I guess Poison Ivy in Batman:AA could count, but to tell the truth she was actually wearing a lot more than she usually does in the comics...

    KalTorak on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I just want to say that the game in the OP looks fucked up.

    Al_wat on
  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It should be mentioned that the discussion broke out in the other thread mostly because of the "lolita" race of seemingly young little girls amongst all that sexualization and the fact that their males were god damn raccoons :lol:

    Neli on
    vhgb4m.jpg
    I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
    [/size]
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It happens. We all know its because like it or not 90% of game players are 14 -23 year old males.

    They shockingly like tits. On occasion ass. Sometimes both.

    Game companies need to sell their wares and men in that are easily manipulated to that end because the above information is common knowledge.


    So in short the only way this is gonna stop is if men learn to control their libido. Or as I like to say the twelfth of never

    King Riptor on
    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

    Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

    I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form

    How highly sexualized can he be when you can't even see his crotch bulge? :winky:

    sidhaethe on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    KalTorak wrote: »
    To be more on-topic, I get pretty universally turn-off by games the shamelessly go for the T&A (Soul Calibur comes to mind). Some are sort of skirting the line... I'd like to see more armor equality in WoW (back in vanilla days, my female character wore a set of pants that displayed as exactly no pants). I dunno, I haven't played many modern games so I don't have much perspective... I guess Poison Ivy in Batman:AA could count, but to tell the truth she was actually wearing a lot more than she usually does in the comics...

    WoW armor is pretty good these days, for the most part. Raid armor looks like armor - the pants and chest pieces will always just be textures applied to the basic model though, that's a limitation of the engine.

    Robman on
  • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form
      Some of the designs *are* made with women in mind, though: many women like playing cutesy characters, such as the female Popori, and the male Castanics and Elves are prettyboys with ripped shirts displaying equally ripped torsos. That will appeal to both women and gays. So it's okay to objectify men too, in the name of equality? Why objectify anyone to this degree at all?
        Hypersexualisation of men isn't exactly uncommon -- what about the males of pretty much every race in WoW, and many other games? Most people are fine with that, so it seems hypocritical to get up in arms over the depiction of women. It's up for debate whether a muscle-bound male is really hypersexualised, though; he's drawn from a male perspective, one that says "look at this strong hero: wouldn't you like to be him?" Large-breasted females in skimpy clothes are also drawn from a male perspective, and that says "look at this hot chick: wouldn't you like to fuck her?" Most gamers are fine with this because most gamers are straight men. Few women want to be an heroic man, or an underdressed slut.

        Lieberkuhn on
        While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
      • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        It happens. We all know its because like it or not 90% of game players are 14 -23 year old males.

        They shockingly like tits. On occasion ass. Sometimes both.

        Game companies need to sell their wares and men in that are easily manipulated to that end because the above information is common knowledge.


        So in short the only way this is gonna stop is if men learn to control their libido. Or as I like to say the twelfth of never

        Firstly no they're not. You're going to have to really limit that to make it even near accurate. And secondly, 'sexualised marketing' has proven itself to actually be rather ineffective, whilst it serves to turn off a number of possible customers.

        Leitner on
      • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        KalTorak wrote: »
        That first picture is really screwing with my mind because I can't unsee the giant cock going down that lady's torso.

        ...

        ugh

        Malkor on
        14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
      • NeliNeli Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        For the record if I could play a male character with bikini armor I would

        Neli on
        vhgb4m.jpg
        I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
        [/size]
      • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
        edited May 2010
        I don't usually care too much either way (although this game is pushing it pretty hard) but I do get annoyed when plate/chain wearing female avatars get skimpy crap that won't block a damn thing. That's annoying. Give em alternate clothes for when they're not fighting if you want to give them the stripper option. Plate is plate.

        Zampanov on
        r4zgei8pcfod.gif
        PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
      • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
        edited May 2010
        It happens. We all know its because like it or not 90% of game players are 14 -23 year old males.

        They shockingly like tits. On occasion ass. Sometimes both.

        Game companies need to sell their wares and men in that are easily manipulated to that end because the above information is common knowledge.


        So in short the only way this is gonna stop is if men learn to control their libido. Or as I like to say the twelfth of never
        90%? Really?

        Since when was it wise to be bossed around by teenagers? Shouldn't we be teaching them that this shit is not cool? And if tits and ass are so important to them, why has the response to the female Charr design been so positive?

        Lieberkuhn on
        While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
      • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
        edited May 2010
        Sentry wrote: »
        I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

        Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

        I took it more as an explanation for how they came to design a female character model which isn't hypersexualized.

        Feral on
        every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

        the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
      • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
        edited May 2010
        Feral wrote: »
        Sentry wrote: »
        I love the implication in that quote that, just because a department has women in it, that automatically precludes it from objectifying women.

        Is that the white collar version of "some of my best friends are black?"

        I took it more as an explanation for how they came to design a female character model was isn't hypersexualized.

        This.

        I know it's fashionable to paint feminists as man-haters who think women are perfect and awesome, but the reality is that most women are just sick and tired of being underrepresented in the media, and most men are too blinded by their privilege to realise how underrepresented women are.

        Lieberkuhn on
        While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
      • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        But seriosuly, I think this quote from the TERA thread says it all:
        Finally, a Hentai MMO

        There's a race of Racoon Men and Slutty School Girls for fucks sake.

        Is their an unrevealed "Tentacle Raper" race too?

        KalTorak wrote: »
        That first picture is really screwing with my mind because I can't unsee the giant cock going down that lady's torso.

        Oh god, I can't unsee it!!!

        shryke on
      • ArlingtonArlington Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        Hmm where to start?

        Why are lineage 2 female dwarfs described as hot in the OP?

        Why "if it appears" that the game is "equally hypersexualised" in terms of gender is this thread only about woman.

        While I understand and can agree that some games ascribe to the "men you wanna be, women you wanna fuck" trope, I don't think TERA is a particularity good example of this. I never wanna be the waify ripped guy in the second picture. He seems pretty specifically drawn to appeal to women.

        No clue how much weight to put into cultural differences.

        Arlington on
      • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
        edited May 2010
        Robman wrote: »
        I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form
          Some of the designs *are* made with women in mind, though: many women like playing cutesy characters, such as the female Popori, and the male Castanics and Elves are prettyboys with ripped shirts displaying equally ripped torsos. That will appeal to both women and gays. So it's okay to objectify men too, in the name of equality? Why objectify anyone to this degree at all?
            Hypersexualisation of men isn't exactly uncommon -- what about the males of pretty much every race in WoW, and many other games? Most people are fine with that, so it seems hypocritical to get up in arms over the depiction of women. It's up for debate whether a muscle-bound male is really hypersexualised, though; he's drawn from a male perspective, one that says "look at this strong hero: wouldn't you like to be him?" Large-breasted females in skimpy clothes are also drawn from a male perspective, and that says "look at this hot chick: wouldn't you like to fuck her?" Most gamers are fine with this because most gamers are straight men. Few women want to be an heroic man, or an underdressed slut.

            Yeah a dude with a perfect body strutting around half naked is sexualized.

            Not sexualized
            Mounted_knight_standing.jpg

            See the difference between mr washboard abs in the OP and him? In fact, it's vaguely insulting that a man strutting about showing off his figure isn't sexual.

            Robman on
          • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
            edited May 2010
            What about JRPGs where everyone is female?

            Sheep on
          • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
            edited May 2010
            Two things before I respond proper:

            - Please, please change the red then lime text to two colors that don't clash so damn hard, both against each other and the background (the red on the blue background of the forum is horrid). That was a little hard on the eyes. D:

            - Those charr things look fucking badass.

            Okay with that out of the way... I've started to come around to the idea that people who take this sort of route in character design are people who are good at being artists but terrible at being creative. They can't fathom a design that is non-sexual while still portraying gender, so they take the easy route. That first image you posted, I've seen armor designs almost exactly like that in a lot of places in the past.

            Another thing behind it is that they're not sure if they want to risk trying things generally new (i.e. tame designs), so since over-sexualized men and females has worked in the past it's much safer as a business decision to go with it. But I wonder if the whole thing is stating to wear thin on general audiences?

            Henroid on
          • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
            edited May 2010
            Shit like this turns me off to some games more and more as time goes on.

            Is it a huge societal problem? Well, that's debatable, I guess. Is it a reflection of another societal problem - a global media that idealizes extremely young women with impossible figures to the point that even supermodels have to be airbrushed to look "acceptable" on a magazine cover? Almost definitely.

            But concerning games and games alone? Mostly, it just pisses me off. When I fire up a game like Final Fantasy 12 and all the female characters are wearing miniskirts or metallic thong "armor" that would literally be impossible for a human being to put on, let alone move in, I feel like the developers are insulting my intelligence. As in, "We think our audience is composed almost entirely of 13-year-olds who are just hitting puberty and need to see digital T&A or they won't buy our game".

            And, while this isn't anything new - Rosa and Rydia were just as scantily clad in 1991 as Fran and Ashe were in 2006 - I do feel like it's reaching bigger and worse proportions as games themselves are getting more and more over-stylized now that graphical technology allows developers to do pretty much whatever they want.

            And, while cheesecake like this doesn't necessarily ruin a game for me, it certainly makes it harder to take the game seriously and get engrossed in the game's world.

            Duffel on
          • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
            edited May 2010
            Bayonetta had pretty broad appeal to both male and female audiences IIRC and it was a mainstream game that rewarded good combos with nudity

            Robman on
          • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
            edited May 2010
            Robman wrote: »
            Yeah a dude with a perfect body strutting around half naked is sexualized.

            Not sexualized
            Mounted_knight_standing.jpg

            See the difference between mr washboard abs in the OP and him? In fact, it's vaguely insulting that a man strutting about showing off his figure isn't sexual.

            So... you think it is sexual, because they want to appeal to women?

            And that objectifying an entire gender in the name of getting a few sales is okay?

            Or perhaps you think it's sexual because they want men to identify with the totally hot dude who is as sexy as they could be, if only they went to the gym instead of playing MMOs?

            In which case, what's in it for the ladies?

            Lieberkuhn on
            While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
          • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
            edited May 2010
            Arlington wrote: »
            Why "if it appears" that the game is "equally hypersexualised" in terms of gender is this thread only about woman.

            Will people stop saying this and instead read the entire OP or at least skim it for this point?

            The entire thread is not about women. Sexualization of both male and female characters occurs frequently, as is shown in the pictures in the OP and then discussed in following posts.

            I also don't understand the attitude of "This is nothing new, they're pandering to teenagers"

            Okay, that may be true, but it doesn't make it right. I think it's perfectly acceptable to point out the faults in doing this, and supporting efforts in the other direction.

            Nocturne on
          • exmelloexmello Registered User regular
            edited May 2010
            I don't get the aversion to the human form here.

            It's not like they're ACTING sexual or being treating poorly by men in those pictures.

            They just happen to be wearing revealing clothing. Revealing no more than I can see walking down the beach.

            If I told my female friends they were objectifying women by wearing revealing clothes they would laugh at me.

            exmello on
          • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
            edited May 2010
            Robman wrote: »
            I like that there's a picture of a highly sexualized, idealized male in those pictures and everyone is freaking out over the female form
              Some of the designs *are* made with women in mind, though: many women like playing cutesy characters, such as the female Popori, and the male Castanics and Elves are prettyboys with ripped shirts displaying equally ripped torsos. That will appeal to both women and gays. So it's okay to objectify men too, in the name of equality? Why objectify anyone to this degree at all?
                Hypersexualisation of men isn't exactly uncommon -- what about the males of pretty much every race in WoW, and many other games? Most people are fine with that, so it seems hypocritical to get up in arms over the depiction of women. It's up for debate whether a muscle-bound male is really hypersexualised, though; he's drawn from a male perspective, one that says "look at this strong hero: wouldn't you like to be him?" Large-breasted females in skimpy clothes are also drawn from a male perspective, and that says "look at this hot chick: wouldn't you like to fuck her?" Most gamers are fine with this because most gamers are straight men. Few women want to be an heroic man, or an underdressed slut.

                The male character in that concept art is pretty clearly sexualized. Did you see his shirt?

                I have a difficult time feeling outrage over this game, it seems as though hypsexualization is altogether a component of the art-style. It seems as though hypersexualization is something that you are explicitly purchasing with this game. Are all MMOs truly this bad? Or is this just an extreme example?

                It's not like games haven't been making huge strides towards better gender representation anyway. Take fem-shep for instance.

                Winky on
              • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                Robman wrote: »
                Bayonetta had pretty broad appeal to both male and female audiences IIRC and it was a mainstream game that rewarded good combos with nudity

                Bayonetta is a good example of a hypersexualized game.

                It was downright awkward a lot of the time.

                Still a fun game though.

                Al_wat on
              • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                Robman wrote: »
                Bayonetta had pretty broad appeal to both male and female audiences IIRC and it was a mainstream game that rewarded good combos with nudity

                I've actually heard a fair amount of arguments that Bayonetta is a positive female protagonist, or something to that extent. Or that her sexuality was nothing but positive.

                Henroid on
              • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                Sheep wrote: »
                What about JRPGs where everyone is female?

                Touhou (just the real games) is clean and awesome.

                BL did something different with the lead love interest and hero did something I don't think I've seen before, have a massive fallout because of some bad communication, rather than just them getting together at the end.

                There was another game someone mentioned, I can't remember the title, where the lead lady already has a boyfriend, and as the story goes by they drift apart in a sad and creepy way.

                Cantido on
                3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
              • SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                Robman wrote: »
                Bayonetta had pretty broad appeal to both male and female audiences IIRC and it was a mainstream game that rewarded good combos with nudity

                It would have been a lot better if it hadn't though. It was just dumb. I get they were trying to be cheeky and japanese and whatever, but I'll be goosed if that part of the game wasn't stupid as all hell. I think I switched into her old-time witch outfit as fast as I could.

                Saammiel on
              • LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
                edited May 2010
                Henroid wrote: »
                Robman wrote: »
                Bayonetta had pretty broad appeal to both male and female audiences IIRC and it was a mainstream game that rewarded good combos with nudity

                I've actually heard a fair amount of arguments that Bayonetta is a positive female protagonist, or something to that extent. Or that her sexuality was nothing but positive.

                Female sexuality can be an empowering thing for women, if done right. i.e.: from a female perspective. I mean, it *is* our sexuality, I think we have the right to have a little control over its depiction in the media sometimes.

                I haven't played Bayonetta, though, so I can't comment on her specifically.

                Lieberkuhn on
                While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
              • ArlingtonArlington Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                Nocturne wrote: »
                Arlington wrote: »
                Why "if it appears" that the game is "equally hypersexualised" in terms of gender is this thread only about woman.

                Will people stop saying this and instead read the entire OP or at least skim it for this point?

                The entire thread is not about women. Sexualization of both male and female characters occurs frequently, as is shown in the pictures in the OP and then discussed in following posts.

                I also don't understand the attitude of "This is nothing new, they're pandering to teenagers"

                Okay, that may be true, but it doesn't make it right. I think it's perfectly acceptable to point out the faults in doing this, and supporting efforts in the other direction.

                I guess I was thrown off by the thread title.

                Our catgirls are different. [Objectification of women in games].

                Also I would really be interested in reading a thread that talked about sexual objectification in our society that was gender neutral.

                Where male sexualization is addressed, it's main point seems to be to dismiss it. Like the OP has a case they want to make, and are shoe horning that game into what they want to talk about, instead of bringing up the game as an example to strengthen their argument.

                Arlington on
              • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                I also just noticed the raccoon-whatever woman in the OP is holding a teddy bear. Creepy.

                Duffel on
              • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
                edited May 2010
                I think there's a lot of shock about women wanting to play characters they can actually identify as female. In proper medieval armor, there isn't much difference between a male and female figure under all the layers of padding, leather, chain and mail.

                Having exposed thighs, midriffs and cleavage is unrealistic, but it does allow people to play something that is recognizably female.

                Robman on
              This discussion has been closed.