Playing starcraft is like any other interaction between two people in a competitive environment. You wish them good luck as a greeting, and say good game after being defeated. This is the norm. It does not matter what you think.
Not doing so could be for two reasons
Ignorance, as in, you're not aware of this ritual, and is an acceptable excuse for your first few games.
Indifference, as in, you don't care about the etiquette associated with your current situation. That makes you a dick.
what if you aren't interested in competitive sc2
also why are we still talking about this nonsense
If you aren't interested in competitive SC2, then why are you playing on the ladder? The very purpose of which is to foster competition by matching you with an appropriately skilled opponent.
Because you can't play it any other way right now?
Custom games against strangers and friends + FFA. Both are unranked and made for fun, practice, and shenanigans.
Too lazy to organize them. I just wanna build dudes and see them kill other dudes built by some other dude.
Well if you talk so much with people you can surely add the ones you enjoyed talking to to your friends list, which is really simple after a game as there is an option easily reached in the score screen, then play with said people another time.
You aren't limited to the competitive ladder at all.
why not? it's not like we have that much to talk about regarding the new patch.
I'm curious to see how the smaller Thors operate. Has the size change given them any significant advantages in larger fights where they used to suffer?
pre-patch, it was really hard to get a large group of them into firing range. some of them in the back would inevitably end up doing the ultralisk dance. havent had that problem as much post patch.
speaking of ultras, im excited to see what they do. they should, at the minimum, make it so ultras can move over / above units like collossus do (i think).
Playing starcraft is like any other interaction between two people in a competitive environment. You wish them good luck as a greeting, and say good game after being defeated. This is the norm. It does not matter what you think.
Not doing so could be for two reasons
Ignorance, as in, you're not aware of this ritual, and is an acceptable excuse for your first few games.
Indifference, as in, you don't care about the etiquette associated with your current situation. That makes you a dick.
what if you aren't interested in competitive sc2
also why are we still talking about this nonsense
If you aren't interested in competitive SC2, then why are you playing on the ladder? The very purpose of which is to foster competition by matching you with an appropriately skilled opponent.
Because you can't play it any other way right now?
Custom games against strangers and friends + FFA. Both are unranked and made for fun, practice, and shenanigans.
Too lazy to organize them. I just wanna build dudes and see them kill other dudes built by some other dude.
Well if you talk so much with people you can surely add the ones you enjoyed talking to to your friends list, which is really simple after a game as there is an option easily reached in the score screen, then play with said people another time.
You aren't limited to the competitive ladder at all.
too much bother with friends lists being reset like every 2 days
itt people that blatantly disregard the accepted greetings and admissions of defeat and want cookies and gold stars instead of the deserved ridicule. Sorry I am not your mother that filled your head with stupid ideas that when someone says hello to you you can spit in their face because you ain't gotta be polite, you're special!!
well excuse me for wanting to actually have a conversation with the guy I'm playing against rather than typing only the same 6 letters every game and otherwise playing against mimes
speaking of ultras, im excited to see what they do. they should, at the minimum, make it so ultras can move over / above units like collossus do (i think).
Ultralisks still have the same problem Battlecruisers have:
Too much overhead, too many hard counters for the investment.
Neither are bad units when viewed in a vacuum, just in terms of cost / ability, but when you consider their availability, costs (in terms of required upgrades and required buildings for production) and how relatively easy it is to counter a unit with such significant initial costs, its still hard to justify their production.
Ultralisks aren't bad! Use them to support banelings or zerglings against infantry! Battlecruisers aren't bad! They fly and are really tough and shoot lasers and have a super big laser! But losing a 200-ish gas unit hurts significantly, and losing a 200-ish gas unit that also requires about 600+ gas in upgrades and buildings before even reaching the field is brutal.
Yeah, if you took so long that he had 20 banshees + cloak and you had no detectors then you did something wrong. Always have detectors.
Well, I had plenty of Hydralisks, and I was eventually able to kill all but 2 of the Banshees, but the real problem was when he initially attacked I had no Overseers. I typically don't make any unless I'm expecting some cloaked shenanigans, but is that something I should be changing?
^^^ you should always have one - if I see a zerg with no overseers that's my cue to build the buildings required to get cloaked units in some corner of the map he's not likely to go to and rape him with DTs/banshees/nukes/roaches with the burrow move upgrade
it's like the analogy of gg = shaking hands at the end of a sports match
Yeah, if you took so long that he had 20 banshees + cloak and you had no detectors then you did something wrong. Always have detectors.
Well, I had plenty of Hydralisks, and I was eventually able to kill all but 2 of the Banshees, but the real problem was when he initially attacked I had no Overseers. I typically don't make any unless I'm expecting some cloaked shenanigans, but is that something I should be changing?
No detection is a pretty big risk. A cloaked ghost + nuke, a group of dark templar, a burrowed roach ambush, there are plenty of things that could wreck you if you're lacking detection.
If you're far enough in the game that "20+ banshees" is something you could conceivably see, you better have some detection.
Yeah, if you took so long that he had 20 banshees + cloak and you had no detectors then you did something wrong. Always have detectors.
Well, I had plenty of Hydralisks, and I was eventually able to kill all but 2 of the Banshees, but the real problem was when he initially attacked I had no Overseers. I typically don't make any unless I'm expecting some cloaked shenanigans, but is that something I should be changing?
Yes. You should try and never let yourself be caught in a situation where you are incapable of dealing with something the opponent could reasonably have. If you're fighting terran or protoss, this includes cloaked units.
Of course, not getting detectors is a common slip to save resources, so it's not like you're committing some sort of grave sin by not having overseers, but if you want to cut those sorts of corners, you should redouble your scouting efforts to make sure you don't have to deal with them. If you see even one banshee, or a dark shrine, or a ghost academy, you should get detection immediately.
Rend on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
If someone has a conversation with me instead of GG's I GET MAD.
Yeah, if you took so long that he had 20 banshees + cloak and you had no detectors then you did something wrong. Always have detectors.
Well, I had plenty of Hydralisks, and I was eventually able to kill all but 2 of the Banshees, but the real problem was when he initially attacked I had no Overseers. I typically don't make any unless I'm expecting some cloaked shenanigans, but is that something I should be changing?
No detection is a pretty big risk. A cloaked ghost + nuke, a group of dark templar, a burrowed roach ambush, there are plenty of things that could wreck you if you're lacking detection.
If you're far enough in the game that "20+ banshees" is something you could conceivably see, you better have some detection.
and even if he doesn't hit you with cloaked units, if he has obs all over your base (and the map) and is just checking you out the entire time, there is pretty much no way you can win.
If someone has a conversation with me instead of GG's I GET MAD.
Like, WHY ARE YOU SO NICE?
This.
Moreover, I hate them because then I feel compelled to speak to them, because it's polite to respond and rude not to.
Personally, I like the ones that don't say shit. That way I don't have to say shit, and we just play the fucking game. When you lose, you quit, and that's all she wrote.
BlackDove on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Wait, I was being sarcastic. I like talking to people.
speaking of ultras, im excited to see what they do. they should, at the minimum, make it so ultras can move over / above units like collossus do (i think).
Ultralisks still have the same problem Battlecruisers have:
Too much overhead, too many hard counters for the investment.
Neither are bad units when viewed in a vacuum, just in terms of cost / ability, but when you consider their availability, costs (in terms of required upgrades and required buildings for production) and how relatively easy it is to counter a unit with such significant initial costs, its still hard to justify their production.
Ultralisks aren't bad! Use them to support banelings or zerglings against infantry! Battlecruisers aren't bad! They fly and are really tough and shoot lasers and have a super big laser! But losing a 200-ish gas unit hurts significantly, and losing a 200-ish gas unit that also requires about 600+ gas in upgrades and buildings before even reaching the field is brutal.
although everything you are saying is mostly true, i do think ultras can fill a role in the end game, even as they are now.
the way i see it, the question is, can they do something better than some other unit (for the same gas cost) at that point in time. with 200 gas, you can have 8 banelings, 2 mutas (or corrupters), 4 hydras, 8 roaches or one infestor.
do i think ultras fill a role that none of these units can fill? maybe. i think the closest comparison to ultras would be 8 roaches and right now, 8 roaches are probably better than 1 ultra (but remember, they also cost 8 larva and 16 food). but if we could make ultras do just one thing the 8 roaches cant, then i do think people would use them, even if they are already countered by existing units. because the way i think we approach the problem is not "are they countered" but rather, "are they a good investment when compared to other investments i can make".
Lash out at everyone while smoldering with generic rage, huh Sasuke?
Talith on
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firewaterwordSatchitanandaPais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
A question! What's a good target for protoss army comp when going up against massed hydras/mutas/corruptors?
I've been going stalkers and chargelots but it's a real struggle! Should I mix some immortals in there? I've tried a colossus or two, but the hydras focus fire them down like whoa, not to mention the air units.
A question! What's a good target for protoss army comp when going up against massed hydras/mutas/corruptors?
I've been going stalkers and chargelots but it's a real struggle! Should I mix some immortals in there? I've tried a colossus or two, but the hydras focus fire them down like whoa, not to mention the air units.
If you get extended thermal lance and a meat wall of stalkers and lots, the hydras won't be able to get to your colossi. As long as you can properly support and protect those things they'll tear through hydralisks like they're paper.
sentries shield will reduce damage from hydras and mutas. they also arent bad at killing mutas themselves. forcefield behind the hydras and let the zealots go to work.
immortals would be bad vs that comp. you need collosus or templar with psi storm for support, yes. if you get the range upgrade for collosus it should be hard for hydras to focus them if you control well. try templars if he has too many corruptors
Colossi with lance upgrade and some sentries to plant force fields and throw up guardian shield. Stalkers to deal with the mutas and corrupters. Immortals will not help against that composition as there is no armored units to gain the +damage bonus.
I wouldnt recommend phoenixes if hes just throwing the mutas in as part of the main army. that's an extra tech building or 2 you wouldnt otherwise be using probably and phoenixes pretty much need to be micro'd to be good against mutas, something which would be hard to do and not worth it in a big fight. psi storm and stalkers for mutas. i hear archons are good these days too
iowa on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
I've done some pretty "Dark Side" favored actions in the past. A guy paused it so he could go to the bathroom, and he was gone before I could accept/deny his request in any way.
I said fuck it, I don't have all day, unpaused it, and won the game while he was taking a dump.
hell, i would do that in an instant. take care of that shit
:x
before the game yo
iowa on
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firewaterwordSatchitanandaPais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Thank for all the tips guys - much appreciated! I almost always spring for lances, but I guess my collosi micro needs work.
Haven't messed with high templars much at all yet. Used storm a few times here and there, but usually as an afterthought, and then only on mm groups. I need to get way better with sentries. I really like them but forget to make enough.
I've also FF'd the ramp to the other dudes base. That was, uh, pretty embarrassing. Considering I had like 20 chargelots waiting to roll in :?
Posts
Bullshit. I've had the CPU AI ragequit on me.
Well if you talk so much with people you can surely add the ones you enjoyed talking to to your friends list, which is really simple after a game as there is an option easily reached in the score screen, then play with said people another time.
You aren't limited to the competitive ladder at all.
pre-patch, it was really hard to get a large group of them into firing range. some of them in the back would inevitably end up doing the ultralisk dance. havent had that problem as much post patch.
speaking of ultras, im excited to see what they do. they should, at the minimum, make it so ultras can move over / above units like collossus do (i think).
too much bother with friends lists being reset like every 2 days
well that's why I play against random people; so I can experience different people with different personalities doing different things
having interaction limited to the same 6 letters every game removes an element from it and makes it less interesting
Whenever I come up against a strategy that I just can't figure out how to deal with, I just ask my opponent.
"How would I have beaten you?"
Ultralisks still have the same problem Battlecruisers have:
Too much overhead, too many hard counters for the investment.
Neither are bad units when viewed in a vacuum, just in terms of cost / ability, but when you consider their availability, costs (in terms of required upgrades and required buildings for production) and how relatively easy it is to counter a unit with such significant initial costs, its still hard to justify their production.
Ultralisks aren't bad! Use them to support banelings or zerglings against infantry! Battlecruisers aren't bad! They fly and are really tough and shoot lasers and have a super big laser! But losing a 200-ish gas unit hurts significantly, and losing a 200-ish gas unit that also requires about 600+ gas in upgrades and buildings before even reaching the field is brutal.
Well, I had plenty of Hydralisks, and I was eventually able to kill all but 2 of the Banshees, but the real problem was when he initially attacked I had no Overseers. I typically don't make any unless I'm expecting some cloaked shenanigans, but is that something I should be changing?
it's like the analogy of gg = shaking hands at the end of a sports match
well what if I want to high-five the dude instead
or bow
or say something instead of a nonverbal gesture
or dance the fandango
why I gotta limit myself to shakin' hands?
Who's saying you do?
gg is just the minimum investment, right?
No detection is a pretty big risk. A cloaked ghost + nuke, a group of dark templar, a burrowed roach ambush, there are plenty of things that could wreck you if you're lacking detection.
If you're far enough in the game that "20+ banshees" is something you could conceivably see, you better have some detection.
Yes. You should try and never let yourself be caught in a situation where you are incapable of dealing with something the opponent could reasonably have. If you're fighting terran or protoss, this includes cloaked units.
Of course, not getting detectors is a common slip to save resources, so it's not like you're committing some sort of grave sin by not having overseers, but if you want to cut those sorts of corners, you should redouble your scouting efforts to make sure you don't have to deal with them. If you see even one banshee, or a dark shrine, or a ghost academy, you should get detection immediately.
Like, WHY ARE YOU SO NICE?
and even if he doesn't hit you with cloaked units, if he has obs all over your base (and the map) and is just checking you out the entire time, there is pretty much no way you can win.
This.
Moreover, I hate them because then I feel compelled to speak to them, because it's polite to respond and rude not to.
Personally, I like the ones that don't say shit. That way I don't have to say shit, and we just play the fucking game. When you lose, you quit, and that's all she wrote.
I don't even speak Spanish.
Also, my bad. I was dead serious. I hate people.
although everything you are saying is mostly true, i do think ultras can fill a role in the end game, even as they are now.
the way i see it, the question is, can they do something better than some other unit (for the same gas cost) at that point in time. with 200 gas, you can have 8 banelings, 2 mutas (or corrupters), 4 hydras, 8 roaches or one infestor.
do i think ultras fill a role that none of these units can fill? maybe. i think the closest comparison to ultras would be 8 roaches and right now, 8 roaches are probably better than 1 ultra (but remember, they also cost 8 larva and 16 food). but if we could make ultras do just one thing the 8 roaches cant, then i do think people would use them, even if they are already countered by existing units. because the way i think we approach the problem is not "are they countered" but rather, "are they a good investment when compared to other investments i can make".
I've been going stalkers and chargelots but it's a real struggle! Should I mix some immortals in there? I've tried a colossus or two, but the hydras focus fire them down like whoa, not to mention the air units.
If you get extended thermal lance and a meat wall of stalkers and lots, the hydras won't be able to get to your colossi. As long as you can properly support and protect those things they'll tear through hydralisks like they're paper.
edit: colossi would not work because corrupters can shoot them and put their 20% damage nonsense on them
Caution: DARKNESS
immortals would be bad vs that comp. you need collosus or templar with psi storm for support, yes. if you get the range upgrade for collosus it should be hard for hydras to focus them if you control well. try templars if he has too many corruptors
having phoenixes would deter that
I think it's an effective strategy to relax the opponent.
"Oh hey, this person is so nice, there's no way he'll cheese"
Then you proceed to cheese.
Maybe start saying how you hate how Protoss players always go void ray, and you think they need to nerf void rays, AND THEN HIT 'EM WITH VOID RAYS.
what exactly does guardian shield do?
and is there any zerg unit that does high damage? the answer is roaches, isnt it?
I said fuck it, I don't have all day, unpaused it, and won the game while he was taking a dump.
I didn't feel bad about it.
Reduces ranged damage by 2. It's like giving your whole army 2 BONUS armor upgrades. And it's stupidly good.
Haven't messed with high templars much at all yet. Used storm a few times here and there, but usually as an afterthought, and then only on mm groups. I need to get way better with sentries. I really like them but forget to make enough.
I've also FF'd the ramp to the other dudes base. That was, uh, pretty embarrassing. Considering I had like 20 chargelots waiting to roll in :?