[WoW] ITT we await [Chat]aclysm

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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    jeepguy wrote: »
    It's certainly possible to do H HoR without using CC, but I'm pretty sure that instance was designed for CC to be used. Bliz is trying to get us back in the habit of using CC. That's no secret.

    It's almost the perfect place for CC. It has a big wide open area(which no one utilizes) and no chance of pulling additional mobs.

    I've tanked HoR on a pally (easysauce) and on a warrior (slightly more challenging), and never had or needed CC. It'd be nice if someone sheeped or feared the riflemen, I guess, but it's no biggie.

    They're Undead, so likely immune to Fear and definitely immune to Sheep.

    It's kinda funny. Whenever HoR comes up, there is inevitably an argument about CC/the nook/etc, but no one points out how retardedly difficult it actually IS to CC an Undead mob. There's only like 2 classes that can reliably stop them (not just "hold them in place" because that does fuck-all for casters).

    It also devolves into "No I don't use the nook because I'm a GOOD player"/"No, I use the nook because I'm a GOOD tank.".


    Actually paladins can fear undead using Turn Evil.

    On a side note, does anybody else feel it's kinda stupid that the trash mobs in the Blood Wing in ICC are undead and yet can be feared by Priests/Warlocks and are immune to Turn Undead?

    Nobody on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I got queued up for H HoR last night and came in after a wipe on wave 6. Got in just as the wave was restarting (or someone restarted it I guess is more accurate). No one was over 50% health but I managed to top everyone off and we made it through the rest of that part just fine. It was nerve racking though... I still hate that place.

    Mutilate on
  • wusoldjrwusoldjr Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    I used to roll with a good Warlock in TBC that would CC by using fear, then using curse of recklessness to break his fear, then reapply fear to yo yo the mob close enough that it wouldn't agro the next pack, but was still locked down. Too bad they nerfed the ability to do it. Of course, I only ever played with two Warlocks who ever even did it in all my time playing WoW. The rest were too busy alt tabbed jerking it with a rubber band wrapped around whatever key was mapped to shadow bolt.

    I have a Warlock as my main, and I so miss Curse of Recklessness. It was great fun flying around Nagrand looking for folks who were solo'ing elites, or hand their hands full with multiple mobs and slap a Curse of Recklessness on the mob(s) and watch the guy crumble :mrgreen:

    wusoldjr on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Nobody wrote: »
    Actually paladins can fear undead using Turn Evil.

    On a side note, does anybody else feel it's kinda stupid that the trash mobs in the Blood Wing in ICC are undead and yet can be feared by Priests/Warlocks and are immune to Turn Undead?

    I'm not sure why they can't be turned. Being vampires means they don't always follow that same rules as normal undead though,... but classically, I think a vampire would be turnable before they'd be fearable (in the normal sense of fear).

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The only dungeon I hate getting on my paladin is HoR. For my warrior it's all D:

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    wusoldjr wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    I used to roll with a good Warlock in TBC that would CC by using fear, then using curse of recklessness to break his fear, then reapply fear to yo yo the mob close enough that it wouldn't agro the next pack, but was still locked down. Too bad they nerfed the ability to do it. Of course, I only ever played with two Warlocks who ever even did it in all my time playing WoW. The rest were too busy alt tabbed jerking it with a rubber band wrapped around whatever key was mapped to shadow bolt.

    I have a Warlock as my main, and I so miss Curse of Recklessness. It was great fun flying around Nagrand looking for folks who were solo'ing elites, or hand their hands full with multiple mobs and slap a Curse of Recklessness on the mob(s) and watch the guy crumble :mrgreen:

    Oh that is evil. And wonderful.

    Joshmvii on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    Whenever I heal heroic HoR on my Priest I never actuallly stand in the nook; I stand out in the middle and Fade if one of the mobs aggros me, and it sends them after the tank every time. I then proceed to shackle Riflemen. I never take damage, the Riflemen never pose a threat (I sometimes get the Mercenaries if I get a shot), and the tank still has all the aggro.

    I have about a 45-50% success rate at not pissing off tanks with this method.

    I just want to tell you that I wish we played on the same server, because after reading some of your posts, I just want to group with you and do some 5 mans. =) All my friends who are creative/good players beyond just good DPS and what not have quit the game.

    Joshmvii on
  • orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    They should change Fear so that it just makes you tremble in place. That way it'd be viable CC in instances and you wouldn't get the occasional "feared and ran out of the world".

    They have that effect in the game already, it's called Cower and some NPCs cast it.

    I guess this says it all: Blizzard gave all the intelligently designed CCs to NPCs. Sigh...

    orthancstone on
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  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    They should change Fear so that it just makes you tremble in place. That way it'd be viable CC in instances and you wouldn't get the occasional "feared and ran out of the world".

    They have that effect in the game already, it's called Cower and some NPCs cast it.

    I guess this says it all: Blizzard gave all the intelligently designed CCs to NPCs. Sigh...

    Well, is that really intelligently designed though? It's just an extreme CC. It's a stun that doesn't break on damage. We have those, they're just not that long (conc blow is the only one that comes to mind).

    drhazard on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Players have cower effects too. Shadow priests have one, I think Locks have a talent that makes fear cause cower when it breaks or something too. It's pvp stuff though. IMO repentance and hex are great designs for CC for classes that Blizzard doesn't want to give more powerful CC. They have CDs and can't be spammed so if a tard breaks them you can't just resheep, but they give those classes the ability to bring that for heroics if needed.

    Joshmvii on
  • orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    Well, is that really intelligently designed though?

    It allows for precise control as opposed to random stupidity. So yes, IMO it is intelligently designed.

    Then again, don't get me started on CC in this game seeing as I'm of the opinion that Bliz has been wrong in their CC designs from the beginning.

    orthancstone on
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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Players have cower effects too. Shadow priests have one, I think Locks have a talent that makes fear cause cower when it breaks or something too.

    The Shadow Priest talent is a horror effect with 10 sec disarm on 2 minute cooldown, locks have a talent that slows the target when fear breaks. Neither of these make for reliable CC.

    reVerse on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Players have cower effects too. Shadow priests have one, I think Locks have a talent that makes fear cause cower when it breaks or something too.

    The Shadow Priest talent is a horror effect with 10 sec disarm on 2 minute cooldown, locks have a talent that slows the target when fear breaks. Neither of these make for reliable CC.

    Yeah, i wasn't arguing that either of those is a reliable CC, just that the cower mechanic had been used for players too. Of course, I forgot the SPriest one is actually a horror and the Lock thing was not what I thought I remembered anyway. =) I guess the main target of Intimidating shout is the only real non moving cower effect players have.

    I stand by what I said before though, that all specs that don't currently have any good viable CC like shadow priests, warriors, and DKs should get something akin to Hex or Repentance. It doesn't really change anything in PvP if it has a long CD, and in case they are serious about making people CC in Cata heroics it won't make groups with those classes in them in a worse position because of it.

    Joshmvii on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I think the warlock talent was exactly what you thought it was, but they changed it either in an early WotLK patch, or maybe even the WotLK beta.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    Well, is that really intelligently designed though?

    It allows for precise control as opposed to random stupidity. So yes, IMO it is intelligently designed.

    Then again, don't get me started on CC in this game seeing as I'm of the opinion that Bliz has been wrong in their CC designs from the beginning.

    I mean, I don't see the argument that 'absolutely works, binary state with no other considerations' to be intelligent design. I personally see it as boring.

    I kinda liken it to tanking on my druid compared to tanking on my warrior. Tanking on my warrior is tabbing between targets, making sure TC and DS are up, SW when I can, HT on the pull or to catch stragglers, charging like a pinball... Tanking on my druid is maul macroed to all my abilities, pull with a FF and charge, and swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe. The latter gets the job done much more reliably, but then I fall asleep at my keyboard.

    drhazard on
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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited May 2010
    polloface wrote: »
    Some people from my guild were 10 man or so the 25 man immortal achievement when the mage gets MC'ed and casts polymorph on the tank, who reflects it and sheeps the mage, who then gets a void under him. Funny stuffs.

    Do you still count as an NPC when MC'd and get the full polymorph duration? :P

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    Well, is that really intelligently designed though?

    It allows for precise control as opposed to random stupidity. So yes, IMO it is intelligently designed.

    Then again, don't get me started on CC in this game seeing as I'm of the opinion that Bliz has been wrong in their CC designs from the beginning.

    Yeah jeez, fuck Fear.

    Blizzard is terrible! Because, as we know, Warlocks have absolutely no real CC options.

    Especially not ones that affect demons and elementals.

    Dac on
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  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Complete change in conversation topic but after someone here mentioned the /gs command yesterday I can not believe more people dont know about it. Its the best part of that mod!

    Mutilate on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Dac wrote: »
    drhazard wrote: »
    Well, is that really intelligently designed though?

    It allows for precise control as opposed to random stupidity. So yes, IMO it is intelligently designed.

    Then again, don't get me started on CC in this game seeing as I'm of the opinion that Bliz has been wrong in their CC designs from the beginning.

    Yeah jeez, fuck Fear.

    Blizzard is terrible! Because, as we know, Warlocks have absolutely no real CC options.

    Especially not ones that affect demons and elementals.

    Ah, Banish and Enslave demon, how I miss thee. You allowed us to kill Hex Lord Malacrass, and blessed us with an easier clear of Heroic Mechanar, but now you have gone to the wayside never to be needed in the entirety of Wrath. =/

    Joshmvii on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    Complete change in conversation topic but after someone here mentioned the /gs command yesterday I can not believe more people dont know about it. Its the best part of that mod!

    Can you explain because I have no idea what you are talking about you goose.

    Also, wuts geerscor?

    Beyond Normal on
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  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    jeepguy wrote: »
    It's certainly possible to do H HoR without using CC, but I'm pretty sure that instance was designed for CC to be used. Bliz is trying to get us back in the habit of using CC. That's no secret.

    It's almost the perfect place for CC. It has a big wide open area(which no one utilizes) and no chance of pulling additional mobs.

    I've tanked HoR on a pally (easysauce) and on a warrior (slightly more challenging), and never had or needed CC. It'd be nice if someone sheeped or feared the riflemen, I guess, but it's no biggie.

    They're Undead, so likely immune to Fear and definitely immune to Sheep.

    It's kinda funny. Whenever HoR comes up, there is inevitably an argument about CC/the nook/etc, but no one points out how retardedly difficult it actually IS to CC an Undead mob. There's only like 2 classes that can reliably stop them (not just "hold them in place" because that does fuck-all for casters).

    It also devolves into "No I don't use the nook because I'm a GOOD player"/"No, I use the nook because I'm a GOOD tank.".
    Whenever I heal heroic HoR on my Priest I never actuallly stand in the nook; I stand out in the middle and Fade if one of the mobs aggros me, and it sends them after the tank every time. I then proceed to shackle Riflemen. I never take damage, the Riflemen never pose a threat (I sometimes get the Mercenaries if I get a shot), and the tank still has all the aggro.

    I have about a 45-50% success rate at not pissing off tanks with this method.

    People not staying in the nook make me nervous overall, as a tank.

    It's tough enough already timing that first Thunder Clap to get all the mobs in as tight a group as possible at the outset of the pull; with the paladin, it's just a matter of dropping a Consecrate smack in the middle of the opening of the alcove as the pull starts.

    Hamurabi on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    He also said he uses fade before he goes to CC one of the dudes, so the dudes will come running anyway.

    Joshmvii on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The way I see it, if you're outside the nook I treat it like any other instance. If you aggro a mob before I can get to it (rare, as a Paladin), you'd better have a way to get out of trouble because I might not be able to save you.

    The Muffin Man on
  • KarrmerKarrmer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    polloface wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    I haven't really played much WoW recently, but Wintergrasp is the best ganking zone. You can find tons of carebears in the little fire elemental area. I drop out of the sky and smite them most righteously.

    And, as a prot paladin, I can't lose, even if it turns out they are geared. 8-)

    Fuck you, fuck you so hard for using that word you silly goose.

    Which is funny because the paladins shield bash animation reminds me of the care bear stare, a big shield popping out of the chest.
    jeepguy wrote: »
    This one time fighting Kel'Thuzad I got frost tombed as I was moving and I did a crazy sort of power slide all the way across the pentagram and *right* into a purple circle of doom. I was laughing so hard in vent and asked if everyone saw me surf to my death. One of the druids battle-rezzed me immediately and we continued on to a steamroll victory.

    I still consider that my most awesome/hilariously unfortunate death.

    Some people from my guild were 10 man or so the 25 man immortal achievement when the mage gets MC'ed and casts polymorph on the tank, who reflects it and sheeps the mage, who then gets a void under him. Funny stuffs.

    A group attempting Immortal doesn't know you can dispel polymorph?

    :(

    Karrmer on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That's the first thing I thought of when I read that, like why would one of your healers or even a ret/prot paladin not dispel the polymorph instantly? I mean it's Kel'thuzad, so your healers were probably DPSing anyway. =P

    Joshmvii on
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It sounds like the mage was MC'd while he'd Polymorphed himself, which would make him immune to the raid members' friendly dispels.

    Hamurabi on
  • KarrmerKarrmer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Never really heard of it putting void zones under MC'd players, and they'd either A: die regardless because they can't control their character, or B: not take any damage because they're mind controlled and can't be damaged by KT's abilities anymore

    Karrmer on
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Karrmer wrote: »
    Never really heard of it putting void zones under MC'd players, and they'd either A: die regardless because they can't control their character, or B: not take any damage because they're mind controlled and can't be damaged by KT's abilities anymore

    I don't know that it's a KT ability, though, so much as an environmental hazard.

    I'm not sure what would happen, honestly, and all I have to go by is the dude saying his mage buddy died when he polymorphed himself and stepped on a Void Zone.

    Hamurabi on
  • orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    I mean, I don't see the argument that 'absolutely works, binary state with no other considerations' to be intelligent design. I personally see it as boring.

    I could agree with this statement in terms of abilities failing or breaking early.

    A fear randomly running a mob through another group isn't exciting in my opinion though, especially since 99 times out of 100 it leads to you not bothering with the CC in the first place since the potential consequences greatly outweigh the benefits. Mobs that flee at low health accomplish the same idea and force you, with prior knowledge after the first time you encounter it, to account for the mob's actions in the way you fight as opposed to just randomly causing you to hold your breath in anticipation of fear possibly helping or boning you.

    orthancstone on
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  • KarrmerKarrmer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Karrmer wrote: »
    Never really heard of it putting void zones under MC'd players, and they'd either A: die regardless because they can't control their character, or B: not take any damage because they're mind controlled and can't be damaged by KT's abilities anymore

    I don't know that it's a KT ability, though, so much as an environmental hazard.

    I'm not sure what would happen, honestly, and all I have to go by is the dude saying his mage buddy died when he polymorphed himself and stepped on a Void Zone.

    I still feel like the healers were bad and didn't dispel, or he didn't say anything ;)

    Easily could have happened tho, I am indeed curious what occurs if an MC player stands on a void zone.

    Karrmer on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    He wouldn't void zone MC'd players because they're considered friendly to him. The only way for that story to make sense is if he got his Poly reflected onto him, it was full duration since he was considered a mob when it hit, and right after he stopped being MC'd he got void zoned and he didn't say anything so he stayed a sheep and died.

    Re: Fear, What they should do is make a glyph that changes your fear into a horror (aka forces a rooting cower effect) but makes it break on damage quicker (or just plain break on damage).

    Opty on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mages should be able to polymorph themselves.

    815165 on
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    I mean, I don't see the argument that 'absolutely works, binary state with no other considerations' to be intelligent design. I personally see it as boring.

    I could agree with this statement in terms of abilities failing or breaking early.

    A fear randomly running a mob through another group isn't exciting in my opinion though, especially since 99 times out of 100 it leads to you not bothering with the CC in the first place since the potential consequences greatly outweigh the benefits. Mobs that flee at low health accomplish the same idea and force you, with prior knowledge after the first time you encounter it, to account for the mob's actions in the way you fight as opposed to just randomly causing you to hold your breath in anticipation of fear possibly helping or boning you.

    I agree fear is mostly useless since it's so likely to make things worse, but I was arguing that a cower CC is just boring. It says, "this enemy won't hurt you, won't move, won't aggro other guys, and is available to be attacked. It doesn't matter if it's ranged, caster, or melee. It's just locked down completely. Fire and forget about him, or just burn him." All CC is basically this, with twists, like being immune or only lasting until not being damage or only stopping them in place or even just slowing their attacks (technically a form of CC). Those twists make it interesting.

    drhazard on
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  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Don't forget about PvP balancing!

    Hamurabi on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, fear breaks after X amount of damage, so "cower" would work the same way.

    reVerse on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You're also granted immunity shortly after the MC to void zones. We've had a few people polymorphed in naxx25 right over a void zone and live after it wore off. It wasn't an issue, really.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Well, fear breaks after X amount of damage, so "cower" would work the same way.

    I was under the impression that cower as we were discussing it was like Falric's abilities, though, which does not.

    drhazard on
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  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Mages should be able to polymorph themselves.

    It'd be the most broken buff in the game, and they'd FINALLY make it stop healing.

    The Muffin Man on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    drhazard wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Well, fear breaks after X amount of damage, so "cower" would work the same way.

    I was under the impression that cower as we were discussing it was like Falric's abilities, though, which does not.

    I was under the impression that we were discussing making fear viable CC by making the target not run around like a headless chicken and some people bringing up this whole NPC "cower" ability.

    NPC abilities differ greatly from player abilities, anyway.

    reVerse on
  • shosarshosar Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Anyone want some spoilers? I mean really big spoilers here, we're talking the majority of the Gilneas and Westfall questlines. Including spoiling what is probably meant to be a HUGE surprise. Pictures too.
    Oh, and in case you just want some sort of picture to whet your appetite without going through the whole mess:
    91729979.th.jpg

    Why is Westfall burning? Why is that hairy gentleman just watching? Why can't anyone realize that Nathan Fillion should do a movie with Bruce Campbell?

    shosar on
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