legislators in the German gov't have somehow started this movement in the EU to severely limit and/or ban "violent games", right?
Where are you seeing this? There's already a voluntary system in place (similar to the American ESRB) called PEGI. There was a bit of a fuss recently about Rule of Rose that was caused by an Italian government minister shouting loudly about things which weren't his responsibility. The EU minister whose job it is to deal with this kind of thing laid the smack down on him pretty hard, but the publisher still pulled the game.
my question is, does the EUs actions here give any credence to the lawmakers in the U.S. in terms of this stuff? what are the standards in other countries?
As I understand it, the US can't legislate age restrictions on game sales, because to do so would be unconstitutional. What they can have is a voluntary system enforced by retailers, like with movies.
In the UK, there are no such constitutional difficulties, so games that have "mature" content (usually excessive bad language, extreme violence and gore, or explicit sexual content) get passed to the BBFC for rating as either "15" or "18", those being the minimum age to purchase. To my knowledge, the BBFC has never "banned" a game, or even refused to rate one.
It's worth pointing out that European ratings boards tend to come down hardest on violence, particularly if it's presented explicitly in a manner that fails to sho any kind of consequence. The "hot coffee" scandal wasn't a scandal in the UK, since the BBFC considered the sex scene milder ratings-wise than the violence in the game.
Actually the BBFC didn't consider Hot Coffee to be part of the game at all. Which is accurate because it wasn't.
Actually the BBFC didn't consider Hot Coffee to be part of the game at all. Which is accurate because it wasn't.
I vaguely remember someone from the BBFC expressing that opinion (that it was less of a concern than the violence) in an interview or a statement I read at the time. They were speaking speculatively about what might have been had it not been cut out of the retail game. I'm buggered if I can find the quote now, though.
You are correct, however, that they didn't consider it since it wasn't an intrinsic part of the game.
Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.
I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
7 never had, has or is ever going to really have any real reason to be rated M. Aeris dieing (Come on, not a spoiler anymore) was about as violent as a death in a live action disney movie.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
I'm all for laws restricting the sale to minors.
Unless we do that I'm sure we are going to end up with a court case in where some game dev get's sued to hell and back.
Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.
I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
7 never had, has or is ever going to really have any real reason to be rated M. Aeris dieing (Come on, not a spoiler anymore) was about as violent as a death in a live action disney movie.
Hell no, Simba's Dad was trampled then gored, then trampled some more, Aeris got off clean.
7 never had, has or is ever going to really have any real reason to be rated M. Aeris dieing (Come on, not a spoiler anymore) was about as violent as a death in a live action disney movie.
Hell no, Simba's Dad was trampled then gored, then trampled some more, Aeris got off clean.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
EDIT: (To above) Ah, I see, my bad.
EDIT2: Now I feel bad
Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.
I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
Anyone notice how some things (mattresses and the copy machines in Highrise) are totally impenetrable? A steel wall, yeah that makes sense, but bullets should obliterate copy machines.
I don't know about you, but I always buy a bullet proof printer. Its a lot more expensive, but I think the advantages are apparent.
While I don't think videogames cause people to go out and kill, I still think they desensitize people to violence and gore, but so does most of all existing media.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
Exactly. Once the ancient politicians all die off, the younger, less fear-mongering people will take their place and we'll be in a safer position.
And I'm not saying that to be funny. I'm completely serious.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
Exactly. Once the ancient politicians all die off, the younger, less fear-mongering people will take their place and we'll be in a safer position.
And I'm not saying that to be funny. I'm completely serious.
Except they'll be railing against the new thing the kids are into.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
Exactly. Once the ancient politicians all die off, the younger, less fear-mongering people will take their place and we'll be in a safer position.
And I'm not saying that to be funny. I'm completely serious.
Except they'll be railing against the new thing the kids are into.
I can't see anybody seriously complaining about sexbots.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
Exactly. Once the ancient politicians all die off, the younger, less fear-mongering people will take their place and we'll be in a safer position.
And I'm not saying that to be funny. I'm completely serious.
Except they'll be railing against the new thing the kids are into.
I can't see anybody seriously complaining about sexbots.
It's still an interesting and relevant point of contention--even if it would make sense to restrict the sale of M-rated games to minors, is that the kind of law we want on the books? Opinions seem to range from "wouldn't object" to "hell the fuck no".
Also: I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
But the movie industry successfully regulates itself, and has for many years. Why can't the game industry?
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
The problem is that nobody has proved that interactive games don't have a greater effect on psychology and behavior then just watching images. There is evidence on both sides but the majority of it indicates that interactive activity has a greater effect then passive activity.... hence why interactive education is prefered to teach behaviors.
So you can't really expect the games industry to be bound by the same rules as the movie industry. Just like the book industry is not bound by the same rules as the movie industry.
What I fear will happen is simple. In the vast push from "hell no don't regulate it for minors you evil people" we'll end up in a far worse situation. Some kid will do something stupid and a psychiatrist will point out that some game did teach the idiot the behavior. And then it's going to be open season on video games, not just for kids, but for everybody.
Having a few laws here can actually protect the rights of companies to make games about whatever they want without having to worry about being sued into the ground, same for stores that sell them.
And it wouldn't be the first time that one idiot screwed things up for the rest of us.
I had a retard moment and almost thought "well at least we're not trying to ban sex" but then I came to my senses and recalled all our issues with the "homosexin'." But I doubt that'll ever receive a real ban, and I guess this whole "murder game" thing won't either.
Maybe you missed it but same-sex unions and "sodoy" are illegal in a hell of a lot of US states.
Sodomy.
And bear in mind that you're dealing with an idiot.
Also, that sex in videogames is something that you could probably get a disturbing number of American politicians behind the banning of.
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Posts
That's precisely what I was alluding to. :P
Anyway, how about Sephiroth and Kefka?
I vaguely remember someone from the BBFC expressing that opinion (that it was less of a concern than the violence) in an interview or a statement I read at the time. They were speaking speculatively about what might have been had it not been cut out of the retail game. I'm buggered if I can find the quote now, though.
You are correct, however, that they didn't consider it since it wasn't an intrinsic part of the game.
No, you're right, I'm wrong. The system is voluntary, though EB/GS seem to follow it.
My bad.
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
sad thing is, more people were probably moved by that scene, than this news story.
edit: yes, i know, emotional attachment and all that, but still. Real person/game character.
I'm all for laws restricting the sale to minors.
Unless we do that I'm sure we are going to end up with a court case in where some game dev get's sued to hell and back.
Hopefully, people have been desensitized to the "Videogames make kids evil!" media frenzy.
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
I have to say I agree with crash on this. Making this law protects 1.) Devs, and 2.) Stores. The law shouldn't ban kids from playing the games--if parents want to buy them for their kids, go for it. My parents bought me Doom for Sega 32x (I know, I know) when I wasn't much older than 12, because they figured I was responsible enough to handle it. I say it's the parent's responsibility to determine what the kid can/can't play until they are an adult, when it becomes the individual's responsibility.
However, I do fear the "slippery slope", and I'd avoid the law if I feared it would lead to censorship.
EDIT: (To above) Ah, I see, my bad.
EDIT2: Now I feel bad
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
I think it's only a hot-button issue because video games as an entertainment medium are still in relative infancy compared to other entertainment media. Nobody's going nuts about how easy it is for kids to sneak into R-rated films.
It's a potential mess I'd rather not fuck around with.
Maybe it's a generational thing? If we can escape the politics of the generation before us, when our people move in, and when the gamers become parents (many already are), this won't even be an issue, because we can deal with it like people dealth with movies, comics, books, and dancing like other have in the past.
XBL: LiquidSnake2061
It's really win/win.
And I'm not saying that to be funny. I'm completely serious.
*Snap snap snap*
&
Ultra-conservative Republicans.
Unless they were ultra bondage bots. Then we'd be screwed.
Afraid of what?
Death by snoo-snoo?
I'm more concerned about death by electric shock
Nah. It will learn to evolve. Each sex bot will come packaged with VR goggles to insert you and your sex bot into your favorite porn movie.
The problem is that nobody has proved that interactive games don't have a greater effect on psychology and behavior then just watching images. There is evidence on both sides but the majority of it indicates that interactive activity has a greater effect then passive activity.... hence why interactive education is prefered to teach behaviors.
So you can't really expect the games industry to be bound by the same rules as the movie industry. Just like the book industry is not bound by the same rules as the movie industry.
What I fear will happen is simple. In the vast push from "hell no don't regulate it for minors you evil people" we'll end up in a far worse situation. Some kid will do something stupid and a psychiatrist will point out that some game did teach the idiot the behavior. And then it's going to be open season on video games, not just for kids, but for everybody.
Having a few laws here can actually protect the rights of companies to make games about whatever they want without having to worry about being sued into the ground, same for stores that sell them.
And it wouldn't be the first time that one idiot screwed things up for the rest of us.
God damn it.
And bear in mind that you're dealing with an idiot.
Also, that sex in videogames is something that you could probably get a disturbing number of American politicians behind the banning of.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH