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The Tragic Death of the Western [Anime Industry]

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Posts

  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'm actually surprised that the manga industry hasn't suffered as bad as the anime industry over here, given how much poor quality stuff got imported here during the boom by Tokyopop and stuff. I wonder if it's because of the cheaper price of volumes and the amount of time you can take to read one (sometimes they've lasted me a good day, compared to say ~90-120minutes in the old "here's 3 to 4 episodes, that'll be $30+ please" days.

    Sad that some real gems are out of print now.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    ...wait what? Do you mean cartoons made, for example, by North American corporations?

    No, I mean stuff done stylistically in the anime style, but wholly western efforts i.e. stuff that was done in english for the american market first and foremost.

    It's only tentatively related, but First Squad was produced by Studio 4C for a Russian entertainment company, used Russian voice actors, and was primarily marketed in Russia (and to a lesser extent, the United States).

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Actually, that makes me think: what if a lot of the problems with the industry in the US are the result of a lot of the companies acting as though the boom years back was industry norm, instead of just being a bubble?

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised that the manga industry hasn't suffered as bad as the anime industry over here, given how much poor quality stuff got imported here during the boom by Tokyopop and stuff. I wonder if it's because of the cheaper price of volumes and the amount of time you can take to read one (sometimes they've lasted me a good day, compared to say ~90-120minutes in the old "here's 3 to 4 episodes, that'll be $30+ please" days.

    Sad that some real gems are out of print now.

    A lot of the time when I'm in a comic store or book store, I see a lot of younger people coming in and looking through the manga. A lot of them girls, even. Manga clearly has the ability to be appealing to new, fresh readers, while American comics struggle to increase readership even with all the hit comic movies coming out. I imagine price and the amount of material in each volume definately helps, plus the pure variety of genres.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    ...wait what? Do you mean cartoons made, for example, by North American corporations?

    No, I mean stuff done stylistically in the anime style, but wholly western efforts i.e. stuff that was done in english for the american market first and foremost.

    It's only tentatively related, but First Squad was produced by Studio 4C for a Russian entertainment company, used Russian voice actors, and was primarily marketed in Russia (and to a lesser extent, the United States).

    On the "animation studios working for primarily non-Japanese audiences," front, there was also Animatrix, Gotham Knight and probably at least one more WB commissioned anthology.

    wait, Halo Legends, that was the other, I think.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    Actually, that makes me think: what if a lot of the problems with the industry in the US are the result of a lot of the companies acting as though the boom years back was industry norm, instead of just being a bubble?

    That's my theory. It goes hand-in-hand with the idea that you could have non-stop shounen hit after non-stop shounen hit.

    Funny thing is, Japan is producing less shounen than it was (though I guess it'd be hard to produce more, given how much was being put out). And it looks like less effort is going into it.

    Also, as LockedOn mentioned, manga seems to be steadily rising in strength--while Best Buy and others are closing their anime sections (or reducing them), Barnes & Noble and Borders having actually increased their manga sections substantially.
    Lanz wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    ...wait what? Do you mean cartoons made, for example, by North American corporations?

    No, I mean stuff done stylistically in the anime style, but wholly western efforts i.e. stuff that was done in english for the american market first and foremost.

    It's only tentatively related, but First Squad was produced by Studio 4C for a Russian entertainment company, used Russian voice actors, and was primarily marketed in Russia (and to a lesser extent, the United States).

    On the "animation studios working for primarily non-Japanese audiences," front, there was also Animatrix, Gotham Knight and probably at least one more WB commissioned anthology.

    wait, Halo Legends, that was the other, I think.

    Yup. Halo Legends was produced by a number of companies, including Studio 4C and Production IG.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised that the manga industry hasn't suffered as bad as the anime industry over here, given how much poor quality stuff got imported here during the boom by Tokyopop and stuff. I wonder if it's because of the cheaper price of volumes and the amount of time you can take to read one (sometimes they've lasted me a good day, compared to say ~90-120minutes in the old "here's 3 to 4 episodes, that'll be $30+ please" days.

    Sad that some real gems are out of print now.

    A lot of the time when I'm in a comic store or book store, I see a lot of younger people coming in and looking through the manga. A lot of them girls, even. Manga clearly has the ability to be appealing to new, fresh readers, while American comics struggle to increase readership even with all the hit comic movies coming out. I imagine price and the amount of material in each volume definately helps, plus the pure variety of genres.

    hmmm, that gives me a wonder: Anyone know how well your average manga volume does compared to, say, some of the indie comics out there?

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Not to dig up the old thread again, but for Lanlaorn's information, the pink-bordered image at the top of the two most recent threads was edited in by Irond Will.

    Quite frankly, it's a bit disingenuous to say "hey, this OP is really creepy and offensive" when you also have a content edit on record a few days prior.
    Lanz wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised that the manga industry hasn't suffered as bad as the anime industry over here, given how much poor quality stuff got imported here during the boom by Tokyopop and stuff. I wonder if it's because of the cheaper price of volumes and the amount of time you can take to read one (sometimes they've lasted me a good day, compared to say ~90-120minutes in the old "here's 3 to 4 episodes, that'll be $30+ please" days.

    Sad that some real gems are out of print now.
    Manga's cheaper, doesn't need to sell nearly as much to turn a profit, and has even worse conditions and contracts than the anime industry.

    Like LOT said, also, manga appeals to a different audience. On the rare occasions these days I find myself in a bookstore shopping in person, the manga aisle tends to be dominated more by girls looking at a ton of shoujo titles I've never heard of.

    Spectrum on
    eUTP6eY.jpg
    MyAnimeList | PAFC Season 2 Champion and Season 3 Champion
    Let's Play/Learn: Ultimate General: Civil War - Union Campaign
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I'll shut up now, Irond. I don't want to get the thread locked, because there has been some good discussion going on here. I was just frustrated and wanted to get things off my chest. If you feel the need to unleash the mod powers, I hope it's just on me and not on the thread. Sorry.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hey Spectrum, have't seen you in a while.

    Actually, I'd agree, the shoujo selection in mainstream book stores' manga areas has a very strong showing. I was surprised to find new stuff like Nana and whatnot in stock in large quantities.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    I'm actually surprised that the manga industry hasn't suffered as bad as the anime industry over here, given how much poor quality stuff got imported here during the boom by Tokyopop and stuff. I wonder if it's because of the cheaper price of volumes and the amount of time you can take to read one (sometimes they've lasted me a good day, compared to say ~90-120minutes in the old "here's 3 to 4 episodes, that'll be $30+ please" days.

    Sad that some real gems are out of print now.

    A lot of the time when I'm in a comic store or book store, I see a lot of younger people coming in and looking through the manga. A lot of them girls, even. Manga clearly has the ability to be appealing to new, fresh readers, while American comics struggle to increase readership even with all the hit comic movies coming out. I imagine price and the amount of material in each volume definately helps, plus the pure variety of genres.

    hmmm, that gives me a wonder: Anyone know how well your average manga volume does compared to, say, some of the indie comics out there?

    I've heard that manga sales overall are on a decline. Of course, american comics aren't doing that great either. I don't really know any sales data though.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • ZandraconZandracon Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Huh, took a look at the Times Best Sellers in graphic books. Top of the list is TWILIGHT: THE GRAPHIC NOVEL, VOL. 1 and it's been on the list for 8 weeks. It doesn't actually appear to list the sales numbers though.

    Zandracon on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Looking at the manga list and seeing One Piece all over it makes me happy.

    Of course, they put out five volumes in the same month...which may skew things just a little.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I wonder how manga piracy affects sales. There's quite a few scanslation sites out there.

    Opty on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Most people I know mainly read scans simply because it's the only way to read the manga when it's new. Up until this year, the only way to read the last 20+ volumes of One Piece was to read scans, for example.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    While it may weaken a lot of companies, artistically it may actually be healthy for the anime/manga world to contract a little bit. It's possible that doing so will allow for a larger focus on quality over quantity. It would certainly suck for the mediocre artists who were yet making a living making mediocre stuff, but if they had to compete for space they might be more inclined to stand out more instead of producing generic titles. Similarly, if more is riding in a smaller number of titles, maybe more and better resources will be put in to making sure a decent return comes off of them. Of course, this also brings up a greater chance of the "lowest common denominator" issue, but that issue comes up with generic titles as well.

    Incenjucar on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    While it may weaken a lot of companies, artistically it may actually be healthy for the anime/manga world to contract a little bit. It's possible that doing so will allow for a larger focus on quality over quantity. It would certainly suck for the mediocre artists who were yet making a living making mediocre stuff, but if they had to compete for space they might be more inclined to stand out more instead of producing generic titles. Similarly, if more is riding in a smaller number of titles, maybe more and better resources will be put in to making sure a decent return comes off of them. Of course, this also brings up a greater chance of the "lowest common denominator" issue, but that issue comes up with generic titles as well.

    You vastly A.) overestimate the amount that Japanese artists are paid and B.) underestimate the amount that's already shipped to even cheaper countries. Vietnam's the popular one lately.

    Aroduc on
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That's the problem.

    How many people got into anime and manga due to piracy in the first place?

    Many people copied VHS tapes, downloaded stuff online before it started to get moved over, slowly the popularity of anime and manga was building up but it was still largely done via piracy even though some comic book companies like Dark House did have a bit of manga out there. As shows got more popular they started released to the States, it took time for that to build up but even so a lot of people were still getting into things the old fashion way.

    The same still stands today, even for the stuff you can get there is always stuff still be released that is far behind or not released at all. A lot of people are still getting this stuff the same ways as before, the methods and distribution ways may change slightly but it still comes out via people translating the stuff or giving subtitles.

    The problem is manga and anime has been built up over the last few decades through such things, any company head that wants that to change is going to find themselves losing badly. Is it a sense of entitlement? Probably but whatever the case it all exist out there. It's hard to challenge what people expect to be free for the most part when the whole business for the most part was grown up on it.

    Cade on
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yep, the Western anime (not so much manga until the rise of scanners) industry was pretty much built singlehandedly on the back of piracy. It is founded on piracy. That's why fansubbers and scanlators have the attitude, that's why the culture of 'share it around' exists and is so prevailant amongst the anime culture of the west (not to say it doesn't exist in the east, of course, but it's... uh, more vocal here?) Fan communities are or regard themselves as commercial pathfinders, discovering what is viable in western societies, acting as test markets for the rest of the commercial sector. Or that's what they say, anyway. The problem is of course that they are a free alternative to the commercialisation that follows, and, you know, there's a lot of problems with fan communities themselves...

    Jintor on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Your kidding right.

    Silly goose.

    Manga and anime were already taking off before those shows popped up, now not to say they didn't help out, they really did so but the ball was already rolling at that point. Pokemon for example showed up after manga and anime in the west was pretty popular, I remember reading about Pokemon in Nintendo Power as some sort of quirky little new title in Japan when the rest of anime was starting to take off.

    But overall there were a host of titles that were boosting anime and manga, anime wise you had Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell as what everyone pointed too when anime was first uttered, you had special get togethers in colleges that were hosting anime showings of all sorts. Manga, had tons of stuff out much of which Dark Horse helped with big time, titles like Gunsmith Cats helped introduce people among other titles.

    To solely credit those three titles is just incorrect.

    Cade on
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited May 2010
    Just so y'all know (since you seem to love complaining about Will) the next time this thread devolves into general anime talk, it's being locked and the perpetrators are going to be jailed. If you insist on being rude to my staff, I will simply relieve them of the burden of dealing with you and deal with you myself. Those who are experienced in dealing with me are no doubt able to inform those of you who are not that it is significantly less delightful than dealing with Will, and significantly more like banging your head against a wall. I do not require your input as to whether or not I am being fair, and I absolutely will not tolerate further abuse of my staff.

    Behave.

    Tube on
    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Edit: Changing this to a PM, and Jintor if the thread actually got locked for a sentence by me then we're pretty fucked anyway.

    Lanlaorn on
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Seriously, Lan, can you please stop jeapordising the future of this thread? I would appreciate being able to discuss the Anime Industry without devolving into either moderator discussion or the relative qualities of shows in an unrelated context to the Western anime industry. Thanks.

    Jintor on
  • FalxFalx Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Anyone who wants to chat about Anime in general and not about the Western industry, which is the sole purpose of this thread, can do so without stepping on the mods toes and giving them headaches by joining us at The PA Group for judging others.

    Sign up at MAL and then do a search for that club.

    Hope this helps keep this thread alive, and people unjailed.

    Falx on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Aroduc wrote: »
    You vastly A.) overestimate the amount that Japanese artists are paid and B.) underestimate the amount that's already shipped to even cheaper countries. Vietnam's the popular one lately.

    I would be comfortable with fewer artists with better pay due to a more focused audience. I don't expect people to suddenly start caring about artists, but if competition played a more active role in the anime industry, it might fare a bit better. Right now we have a deluge of samey titles setting up a paradox of choice and making it that much harder to properly locate - and reward the artist of - the true gems. Unfortunately, so much of this is complicated by ingrained issues and the history of the thing that an event of some sort may be required for improvement.

    Incenjucar on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Edit: Just been made aware that apparently things are more Orwellian than I though, gonna take it to PMs.

    Lanlaorn on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Aroduc wrote: »
    You vastly A.) overestimate the amount that Japanese artists are paid and B.) underestimate the amount that's already shipped to even cheaper countries. Vietnam's the popular one lately.

    I would be comfortable with fewer artists with better pay due to a more focused audience. I don't expect people to suddenly start caring about artists, but if competition played a more active role in the anime industry, it might fare a bit better. Right now we have a deluge of samey titles setting up a paradox of choice and making it that much harder to properly locate - and reward the artist of - the true gems. Unfortunately, so much of this is complicated by ingrained issues and the history of the thing that an event of some sort may be required for improvement.

    The problem with any arts related industry is that new people are so willing to undercut established artists just for a chance to break into the industry. It's one of the reasons I stopped my pursuit of an arts career; too much competition for too few jobs with too little pay to justify it.

    mrt144 on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Your kidding right.

    Silly goose.

    Manga and anime were already taking off before those shows popped up, now not to say they didn't help out, they really did so but the ball was already rolling at that point. Pokemon for example showed up after manga and anime in the west was pretty popular, I remember reading about Pokemon in Nintendo Power as some sort of quirky little new title in Japan when the rest of anime was starting to take off.

    But overall there were a host of titles that were boosting anime and manga, anime wise you had Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell as what everyone pointed too when anime was first uttered, you had special get togethers in colleges that were hosting anime showings of all sorts. Manga, had tons of stuff out much of which Dark Horse helped with big time, titles like Gunsmith Cats helped introduce people among other titles.

    To solely credit those three titles is just incorrect.

    No, I feel pretty justified. Sailor Moon was a pop phenomenon and also the first syndicated anime I can remember that actually bounced around networks but still managed to eventually complete its run. Fantastic fan appeal there. Everything else you mentioned (Don't forget Akira) were real cult hits.

    Pokemon in 98 was a huge deal. In syndication it was beating out the numbers on some well established talk shows when it was aired in the afternoon. We got the anime a few weeks before the games as a lead in. Yes it was a much balleyhooed game on the internet and magazines but it's lasting power and drawing power are second to none. Think of the dozens of clones brought over to get some of those marketing dollars. Think how this show has been on the air for twelve years and outlasted its first two networks.

    DBZ's contribution to anime in America cannot be exaggerated enough. It is the reason we had the bubble and boom in the first place and it is why CN actually had multiple afternoon anime blocks at one point. It started Funimation on their path to ruling this industry with an iron first. A network is willing to take a chance on the dub of the recut version of this show in this otherwise deadball era speaks for itself.

    Yes, there was anime before these three. Star Blazers, Voltron, Macross, Gigantor, and tons of small VHS releases throughout the late 80's and early 90's. Nickelodeon used to show bits of series and more usually movies on their saturday afternoon foreign block. Sci Fi also experimented with anime just a bit before it took off. Heck even Transformers could be lumped in if one wanted to. Another fun fact is that public television stations in and around SF used to show a couple of animes as a cultural outreach in the early 80's, kinda like how my PBS station used to show Doctor Who at ungodly hours when I was very young.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I remember PBS showing anime as a cultural outreach thing. It was pretty neat.

    mrt144 on
  • NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Folks lets put it this way - there's being smart and there acting stupid. So let me make it clear.

    The western dubbers have been railroaded.

    There were railroaded by the post modern artistic change over Japan was moving towards in the late 90's early 2000's - i think Murkami is from the old school side and he is just showcasing what went down. They were moving to moe/loli and it didnt come down hard until 2003/2005 with Tenchi's sisters show and Haruthi. Got stuck and we have the problems that exist not only on this board which I respect imenslessly. They had NO Choice because the J-Ville folks wanted there major properties treated like Disney treats there live action series. That cost a lot of MONEY. They never had it.

    They Got Railroaded by their fans because all there fans wanted was the betterment of the industry as a whole and wanted anime on prime time - considering the fact until very recently (and maybe NBC might be a future test case if they continue to get worse) Prime Time TV blew chunks until 24, Lost, House etc and shook shit up. But folks got to start from the bottom and that means the Kids Industry - and what happened?

    Yeah it was stated before. The fans got tired of the games and left the the dubbers hanging.

    Then they got railroaded by the same kids industry - never respect them, treated them like second class.

    Then their owners railroaded them with bad planning and what not.

    The thing is, can there be a dubbing industry if the whole basis of the industry was based on bootlegs and what not?

    There is and can be and they have to change there ways. But that would mean major branding overhauls. I stated some. Others can be made.

    Novid on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What sucks is that lots of these issues are at the point where they can't be fixed without the entire industry being overhauled. I don't really see that happening.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What sucks is that lots of these issues are at the point where they can't be fixed without the entire industry being overhauled. I don't really see that happening.

    it can be overhauled. They just dont have the leadership to do so.

    Novid on
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Jintor wrote: »
    Yep, the Western anime (not so much manga until the rise of scanners) industry was pretty much built singlehandedly on the back of piracy. It is founded on piracy. That's why fansubbers and scanlators have the attitude, that's why the culture of 'share it around' exists and is so prevailant amongst the anime culture of the west (not to say it doesn't exist in the east, of course, but it's... uh, more vocal here?) Fan communities are or regard themselves as commercial pathfinders, discovering what is viable in western societies, acting as test markets for the rest of the commercial sector. Or that's what they say, anyway. The problem is of course that they are a free alternative to the commercialisation that follows, and, you know, there's a lot of problems with fan communities themselves...

    Didn't ADV start out as fansubbers too?
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Actually he has a bit of a point. Way back when, you actually had fans mailing each other VHS tapes that were hardsubbed, copied, sent out and repeated over and over again. Not to mention anyone passing them around through clubs.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    The problem with any arts related industry is that new people are so willing to undercut established artists just for a chance to break into the industry. It's one of the reasons I stopped my pursuit of an arts career; too much competition for too few jobs with too little pay to justify it.

    So we need more artist unions maybe?

    Incenjucar on
  • hanzohanzo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Actually he has a bit of a point. Way back when, you actually had fans mailing each other VHS tapes that were hardsubbed, copied, sent out and repeated over and over again. Not to mention anyone passing them around through clubs.

    I was just thinking about mentioning this. Back when I was in High School, I seriously looked into doing exactly what Lanz mentions above. I gave up when I realized how much work it was and just paid why to much for badly dubbed anime instead. I also watched Robotech on PBS. Sailor Moon and DBZ are really important to anime becoming mainstream but it wasn't until fansubing exploded on the internet that I was able to find a diverse selection of Anime and not just the Right Stuff catalog. :P

    hanzo on
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  • agoajagoaj Now is the time of my revengeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sure people were trading fansubs but how many? They were limited by physical tapes and 1997 internet.

    agoaj on
    qnu0EMk.png
  • SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    And the expense to create said fansubs, it took some specialized equipment to do so back then whereas now anyone with a computer and some free time can do it.

    Slicer on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    The problem with any arts related industry is that new people are so willing to undercut established artists just for a chance to break into the industry. It's one of the reasons I stopped my pursuit of an arts career; too much competition for too few jobs with too little pay to justify it.

    So we need more artist unions maybe?

    The inherent problem with an artist unions is that they go too far in the other direction which is supporting older members completely at the expense of younger members and in a lot of cases just push the problem up to an organizational level (I.e. instead of too many artists for too few jobs it's too much art venues, outlets, performances, works etc etc with too little in return to sustain them more than short term.) I know the idea of too much art is kind of laughable but it does indeed cannibalize itself and the idea of "seeing what floats" isn't sustainable long term.

    mrt144 on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Another factor that just came to mind is the growth of comedy anime over the past few years. This alienated American fans, who tended to be action fans who complained that the entire market had been taken over by "moeblob" (moeblob exists, and has increased over the years, but most of the bellyaching was about the T&A just as common in action series but only disparaged in comedy). The main problem, though, was the fact that comedy doesn't translate well, partly due to comedy being social commentary, partly due to wordplay being difficult, and partly due to comedic rhythm being broken by reading subs or trying to match flaps (for a demonstration, watch Desert Punk, where the comedy clearly benefits from the fact that everyone is wearing helmets that make flap-matching unnecessary). Combine this with a dwindling backlog of good series to pad imports, and you get a drought of import-friendly series.

    The moeblob trend has probably hurt the expected market.

    And, if you look at the late 90s/early aughts at least the shows that stick out in my mind--the biggest budgets, the most advertising, the biggest fanfare--you get a somewhat narrow definition of show types, which coincided with an expansion of the US fanbase. They were action shows--though this doesn't really do them service, you had adult action shows and then young action shows which were basically the shounen traditions we have today, and everything in between.

    The businesses might have expected more of the same, and neglected to consider that, just ten years earlier, the scene looked quiet different from that.

    We've gotten a lot more comedy shows, versus the handful of comedy giants of that time period.

    That might be because comedy is a lot quieter. Look at Toradora: it's an incredibly solid and well made show, but it has been met with respect rather that fanfare. I have yet to hear any criticism of it, but it is never listed when compiling "must watch" lists.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
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