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The Tragic Death of the Western [Anime Industry]

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Posts

  • NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    The problem with any arts related industry is that new people are so willing to undercut established artists just for a chance to break into the industry. It's one of the reasons I stopped my pursuit of an arts career; too much competition for too few jobs with too little pay to justify it.

    So we need more artist unions maybe?

    The inherent problem with an artist unions is that they go too far in the other direction which is supporting older members completely at the expense of younger members and in a lot of cases just push the problem up to an organizational level (I.e. instead of too many artists for too few jobs it's too much art venues, outlets, performances, works etc etc with too little in return to sustain them more than short term.) I know the idea of too much art is kind of laughable but it does indeed cannibalize itself and the idea of "seeing what floats" isn't sustainable long term.

    thats one of the reasons i hate TAG and nobody in Hollywood respects them.

    Novid on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Look at Toradora: it's an incredibly solid and well made show, but it has been met with respect rather that fanfare. I have yet to hear any criticism of it.

    Ha!

    HA!

    You're tripping balls.

    A major cause for much of the change is that Gonzo folded and to a lesser extent, while Beetrain hasn't collapsed yet, they're barely making any more of their godawful action drek. When there are about 70 new shows each year, 8ish suddenly disappearing is a significant chunk.

    The other thing is that other studios that mostly did action have been doing a lot of OVAs and movies lately. UFOTable, for example, has foregone regular TV series entirely for the last few years to do Rakkyo, and 7Arcs spent about a year longer working on that Nanoha movie than they meant to, meaning they made fewer shows as well. Deen's main action staff was working on UBW for about 8 months. Etc etc. It doesn't help that a lot of the higher budget action shows lately have bombed and bombed hard. TtT and Basquash were financial disasters. Birdy only slightly less so, partially because it was obviously drawn/animated by a bunch of drunk Koreans for a few shiny nickels.

    Aroduc on
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    agoaj wrote: »
    Sure people were trading fansubs but how many? They were limited by physical tapes and 1997 internet.

    The correct answer is 'more than would otherwise have been exposed to anime'.

    There was no other way to get anime in the West because there was no market for anime in the west. By and large, fansubbing created (or showed there was) a market for commercial interests - DBZ, Sailor Moon, Pokemon - to later exploit.

    Pre bootlegging, it seems pretty unlikely that Commercial businesses would have attempted to export Pokemon or whatever out to the west; would it be popular? Would it be a flop? Would it be worth the massive licencing and distribution rights, or worth doing it ourselves? But suddenly there's a bunch of fans who are going to all this effort, doing all this stuff, not for money, but for the show. For the love of anime. So hey, maybe we can export stuff targeted at these guys over to the west - Ranma 1/2 or whatever. Then hey, maybe this property might be popular...

    Jintor on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Your kidding right.

    Silly goose.

    Manga and anime were already taking off before those shows popped up, now not to say they didn't help out, they really did so but the ball was already rolling at that point. Pokemon for example showed up after manga and anime in the west was pretty popular, I remember reading about Pokemon in Nintendo Power as some sort of quirky little new title in Japan when the rest of anime was starting to take off.

    But overall there were a host of titles that were boosting anime and manga, anime wise you had Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell as what everyone pointed too when anime was first uttered, you had special get togethers in colleges that were hosting anime showings of all sorts. Manga, had tons of stuff out much of which Dark Horse helped with big time, titles like Gunsmith Cats helped introduce people among other titles.

    To solely credit those three titles is just incorrect.

    No, I feel pretty justified. Sailor Moon was a pop phenomenon and also the first syndicated anime I can remember that actually bounced around networks but still managed to eventually complete its run. Fantastic fan appeal there. Everything else you mentioned (Don't forget Akira) were real cult hits.

    Pokemon in 98 was a huge deal. In syndication it was beating out the numbers on some well established talk shows when it was aired in the afternoon. We got the anime a few weeks before the games as a lead in. Yes it was a much balleyhooed game on the internet and magazines but it's lasting power and drawing power are second to none. Think of the dozens of clones brought over to get some of those marketing dollars. Think how this show has been on the air for twelve years and outlasted its first two networks.

    DBZ's contribution to anime in America cannot be exaggerated enough. It is the reason we had the bubble and boom in the first place and it is why CN actually had multiple afternoon anime blocks at one point. It started Funimation on their path to ruling this industry with an iron first. A network is willing to take a chance on the dub of the recut version of this show in this otherwise deadball era speaks for itself.

    Yes, there was anime before these three. Star Blazers, Voltron, Macross, Gigantor, and tons of small VHS releases throughout the late 80's and early 90's. Nickelodeon used to show bits of series and more usually movies on their saturday afternoon foreign block. Sci Fi also experimented with anime just a bit before it took off. Heck even Transformers could be lumped in if one wanted to. Another fun fact is that public television stations in and around SF used to show a couple of animes as a cultural outreach in the early 80's, kinda like how my PBS station used to show Doctor Who at ungodly hours when I was very young.

    I think you are focusing only on the commercial, main stream side of things, and missing the fansub and hobbyist side of things which I think has a far different pedigree. I would question whether things like DBZ had any real effect in getting more people looking into fansubs and the like.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    He's correct though in that Sailor Moon/DBZ/Pokemon were the holy trinity that (to some extent) 'normalised' anime in the west. It's still a goddamn weird thing to most people in western societies, but at least they've, you know, heard of it.

    Jintor on
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanz wrote: »
    Not really. It's built on Sailor Moon/Pokemon/DBZ. That really was the catalyst. Before then sure there were expensive as hell official dubs and a decent amount of bootlegs, but not that many and not that popular.

    Actually he has a bit of a point. Way back when, you actually had fans mailing each other VHS tapes that were hardsubbed, copied, sent out and repeated over and over again. Not to mention anyone passing them around through clubs.

    Well, I think he's talking about the casual market, which is what allowed the anime industry to get as big as it did, and crash as hard as it did. The industry exploded around the mid-late 90's for a reason.

    Zython on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The casual market is pretty important in that it's a source of fresh blood to convert into the more dedicated market. A lot of people went looking for anime after being exposed to the holy trinity. The thing is, the companies dropped the ball with bad dubs, bad writing, bad edits, bad anime choices altogether, and everything else that happened during that boom and scared away the majority of their new fanbase. The industry can't hope to survive without some form of casual outreach.

    Opty on
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Opty wrote: »
    The casual market is pretty important in that it's a source of fresh blood to convert into the more dedicated market. A lot of people went looking for anime after being exposed to the holy trinity. The thing is, the companies dropped the ball with bad dubs, bad writing, bad edits, bad anime choices altogether, and everything else that happened during that boom and scared away the majority of their new fanbase. The industry can't hope to survive without some form of casual outreach.

    Hell, they don't even need to convert them (though it would help). All they have to do is keep them interested. Market volume is just as important as per capita expenditure.

    Zython on
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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You don't get the boom with everyone rushing out to secure tv/dvd releases for a ton of shitty shows that don't deserve it and the few that do without those three taking off.

    Remember this is late 90's. Most people worldwide? Shitty connections. No good free codecs, avi files only, bad browsers, Usenet and irc and not torrents. This is even a bit before Napster, let alone the other sharing sites for videos that came after. Hell this is before Hong Kong dubbers started selling region free releases on EBAY!

    Fansubbing has done a ton of damage by cutting off the mass market, but not as much as general apathy and a dirth of quality entertainment for a good price or even better real TV exposure.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Uhhh. What's this moeblob thing everyone's referring to? If it's what I guess it is, why are people saying it's a recent thing that's finally dying out? I'm scratching my head on this one, since the posts I read on it regard it as fact and don't really go into it at all. I'm saying it's been there all along?


    Also, there was an earlier post aobut manga and what not. Are going to get into that? The point I wanted to say was in regards to kids sitting around reading manga in the bookstore, thus saying it does better than US comics as far as getting new audiences. I'm mkaing a random guess that a part of it could be book size. Most if not all US comics are in floppy magazine type deals, which to me give an idea of "don't take me seriously" aka tehkiddy. Even collected works are in larger sizes that are hard to deal with and come off as picture books. Manga sizes are usually uniform and are sized as easy to handle books. They also have a few wierd sized books and I never see anyone reading those, either.

    There's other reasons as to why people might like and buy manga, but I wants to point that one out.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It's not like there aren't good moe-type shows either. Some of them can be quite funny.

    Of course, some can be quite creepy, too.

    I'm with XoB here. TV and price are the two most important things.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • NovidNovid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    i just had a brain storm.

    the majority of the manga fanbase are female.

    why i say this?

    because some of this large fanbase like boy on boy relationships.

    consider this: reason why the Japanese animation studios went moe/loli was in one part to prevent yaoi taking over the airwaves.

    The American dubbers rather would have moe/loli than homosexual works.

    That should... scare the shit out of yall.

    Novid on
  • agoajagoaj Now is the time of my revengeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I imagine you came to this like the scene from the Usual Suspects...

    agoaj on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Novid wrote: »
    i just had a brain storm.

    the majority of the manga fanbase are female.

    why i say this?

    because some of this large fanbase like boy on boy relationships.

    consider this: reason why the Japanese animation studios went moe/loli was in one part to prevent yaoi taking over the airwaves.

    The American dubbers rather would have moe/loli than homosexual works.

    That should... scare the shit out of yall.

    Logic this is not.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Actually, I kind of see him with sunglasses and a montage prepared in the background.

    "Huh, Moe. Two....four the price of one."

    YEEAAAHHHHHH! 8-)

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Novid wrote: »
    i just had a brain storm.

    the majority of the manga fanbase are female.

    why i say this?

    because some of this large fanbase like boy on boy relationships.

    consider this: reason why the Japanese animation studios went moe/loli was in one part to prevent yaoi taking over the airwaves.

    The American dubbers rather would have moe/loli than homosexual works.

    That should... scare the shit out of yall.

    Let's not ignore this post just because eighty percent of it is nonsensical, and the rest is wrong.

    Little girl bait does not actually sell particularly well over here. Only one I can think of that is fairly infamous that is in the process of coming over and might be partially successful is Strike Witches, just for the horror/curiosity factor.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    CardCaptors?

    edit - Magical DoReMi?

    Uh, anyways. Is Sailor Moon considered moe/loli? Because when I think moeblob whatever you guys are calling it, I consider that one of them. Same iwth Ranma 1/2. And Gall Force. And BubbleGum Crisis. Which is why I'm confused as to why people are saying it's some type of new explosion.

    Are they not considered moeblob?

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I wonder, which came first, the loli or the lolicons? It really feels like an artificial construct to me, to some degree...or maybe it just appeals to and quasi-legitimized a segment of the population's closet-pedo tendencies...(I've seen numbers as high as 1/3 of men, though I'm not sure how legit that is).

    I'm just curious because among my weeaboo friends very few started out liking -or even really tolerating- loli stuff, but a majority ended that way.

    Either way, though, it seems very odd how mainstream it's become. I mean, even if you want to argue that it's just another harmless fetish, a view I myself agree with...how the hell'd it end up in every single thing forever?

    It's like if every American sitcom took time to appeal to furry fetishists. It doesn't strike me as a very bright move, if you're trying to attract new blood.

    Kamar on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I wonder, which came first, the loli or the lolicons? It really feels like an artificial construct to me, to some degree...or maybe it just appeals to and quasi-legitimized a segment of the population's closet-pedo tendencies...(I've seen numbers as high as 1/3 of men, though I'm not sure how legit that is).

    Given that in large parts of the world the age of marriage has been about 12 for a very long time I would say that liking underage (if not actual childish) girls has a long and ignoble history. Sexual desire is a very nebulous thing and frequently misfires.

    EDIT: And remember loli also ticks a bunch of other boxes:

    People find big-eyed high-pitched children "cute" in the nonsexual sense too

    surrealitycheck on
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  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kamar wrote: »
    It's like if every American sitcom took time to appeal to furry fetishists. It doesn't strike me as a very bright move, if you're trying to attract new blood.
    But they at least cater to the loli and most sitcoms have an underaged girl in it.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    CardCaptors?

    edit - Magical DoReMi?

    Uh, anyways. Is Sailor Moon considered moe/loli? Because when I think moeblob whatever you guys are calling it, I consider that one of them. Same iwth Ranma 1/2. And Gall Force. And BubbleGum Crisis. Which is why I'm confused as to why people are saying it's some type of new explosion.

    Are they not considered moeblob?

    I said successful, so maybe Cardcaptors. Not successful enough to get the show released in its original form, mind you, so a really small level thing. Did it even ever finish it's broadcast run?

    Sailor Moon is really a superhero monster of the day show that just so happens to star middleschool girls in short skirts. No pantsu, underage nudity, or really anything else more questionable then a college guy falling in love with said teenager. Which is weird, but fits with the fairy tale motif.

    Like most things fantastical it can be truely terrifying if deconstructed. Regardless Sailor Moon is downright tame compared to the sort of stuff that got the anime thread justifiably locked. A lot of that stuff is borderline kiddy porn.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Tame by today's standards. And it did have pantsu and underage nudity. Even more so when chibichan came around. This moeblob thing has always been there. It's better drawn and animated now I guess. There's more of it, but there's more of everything these days.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Tame by today's standards. And it did have pantsu and underage nudity. Even more so when chibichan came around. This moeblob thing has always been there. It's better drawn and animated now I guess. There's more of it, but there's more of everything these days.

    Not in any of it's American TV versions.

    Also, even in the Japanese version the loli didn't appear till the last few seasons... I'm not sure though nor do I care enough to check.

    DanHibiki on
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The way I see it, the anime industry in America is built on the backs of several very popular shows and a smattering of more obscure cult hits that a few people actually bother to buy. It is then supplemented by anime conventions, which are almost the E3 of the anime industry and do a damn fine job of supplementing a good deal of the nerd industry in general. And yes, this is all built on the back of a piracy bubble that relies on people downloading the biggest shows and acting as market scouts. Problem is, there have been very few standout series since Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (that's where I place my benchmark for this discussion, but see it as you will). Along with the linear increase in licensing costs, this has led to bad things. That and for far too fucking long a boxset of 26 episodes could set you back a hundred dollars for any series. Limited editions could go to twice that. The anime industry only recently figured out thinpacks are the way to go, and they're suffering for it.

    I just rephrased the whole thread, so yeah.

    Mortal Sky on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Tame by today's standards. And it did have pantsu and underage nudity. Even more so when chibichan came around. This moeblob thing has always been there. It's better drawn and animated now I guess. There's more of it, but there's more of everything these days.

    I was clearly talking about how it was presented to US consumers and how both of the localization studios that did the show clearly took out most of it. Even unedited though it is still really tame and not the primary focus of the storytelling. I'm not going to go so far as to call it tasteful though.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If we're talking about how it's presented to the US, then I can't think of anything other than Lucky Star, Strike Witches, and Record of Arghest that would constitute as moeblob. That doesnt' sound like a years long explosion.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It feels like recently there's been an arms race between shows, trying to see who can stuff the most ridiculous fanservice in...usually at the expense of plot. Quite a few recent shows have felt as if they were parodying themselves in their ridiculousness.

    What should be a limited niche has become the standard. Rather than throwing the occasional bone to these niche fans, shows are becoming the bone. Or something.

    Kamar on
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Considering how much more you guys have seen than I have, I'll have to take your word for it then.

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kamar wrote: »
    It feels like recently there's been an arms race between shows, trying to see who can stuff the most ridiculous fanservice in...usually at the expense of plot. Quite a few recent shows have felt as if they were parodying themselves in their ridiculousness.

    What should be a limited niche has become the standard. Rather than throwing the occasional bone to these niche fans, shows are becoming the bone. Or something.
    Kamar, let's be honest here, you're actively looking for those shows.

    Yes, there are certainly weirdo fanservice shows that only exist to sell DVDs with uncensored episodes (which is a fair driver for sales - ffffffff Queen's Blade), but I've only seen perhaps a slight uptick.

    Spectrum on
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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Kamar wrote: »
    I wonder, which came first, the loli or the lolicons? It really feels like an artificial construct to me, to some degree...or maybe it just appeals to and quasi-legitimized a segment of the population's closet-pedo tendencies...(I've seen numbers as high as 1/3 of men, though I'm not sure how legit that is).

    I'm just curious because among my weeaboo friends very few started out liking -or even really tolerating- loli stuff, but a majority ended that way.

    Either way, though, it seems very odd how mainstream it's become. I mean, even if you want to argue that it's just another harmless fetish, a view I myself agree with...how the hell'd it end up in every single thing forever?

    It's like if every American sitcom took time to appeal to furry fetishists. It doesn't strike me as a very bright move, if you're trying to attract new blood.

    Women in Japan are becoming more buxom because of diet, but tastes are trailing behind, causing men to desire less buxom (read: less developed) girls. Also, Japan is obsessed with everything cute. I swear to god, I once saw a picture of a billboard advertizing Japan's military with a (male) moe personification. Also, the staff of WaitWait had to spend hours trying to find something that Hello Kitty hadn't been attached to.

    Scalfin on
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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    If we're talking about how it's presented to the US, then I can't think of anything other than Lucky Star, Strike Witches, and Record of Arghest that would constitute as moeblob. That doesnt' sound like a years long explosion.

    Part of this is because the moe explosion is a recent phenomenon which just so happens to coincide with the dearth of quality domestic releases. It's all related!

    I think the main problem of the domestic market is apathy caused by lack of television exposure. Secondary is the lack of quality new programming to sell to the DVD market. Third is fansubbing/piracy/what have you. Fifth and by far the least is cost; most people complaining about the high price of domestic anime haven't actually been shopping recently or aren't very savvy. I buy most seasons at or around $25, which is very competitive with the low end of TV costs. It isn't 2002 anymore where they were still using VHS pricing and episode standards. It's not even 2006 anymore with $60-$80 seasons, $35-$50 on sale, $20 for four to six first run episodes with bonuses.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    i think cost is a bigger factor. i'd go with lack of tv exposure, and even if you do find out about something, you go to the store and find it's being sold at an insane price.

    please list one season of anything anime with an original run msrp of $25

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Buy anime online from wholesale clearing houses. Only a fool goes to Bestbuy or god forbid FYE or any other media specialist. DVD Pacific, Rightstuff, hell even Amazon or sometimes directly from the localizers can get you some really great anime on the cheap.

    Amazon has an absolutely insane sale every few months.

    You're right though, I'm definitely not talking first run MSRP.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah so anime is still crazy expensive until you wait until after they fail and are put and reduced prices to try to at least make up some of the massive loss they just took.


    Valid point someone else made was preorders. I remember those being super cheap. Well. Cheap compared to its price when it comes out.

    PikaPuff on
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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I wouldn't say crazy expensive. I've seen first run shows sold in season packs sold at an MSRP of $50 but being $38 or so day one.

    Day one TV seasons aren't that great a deal either most of the time.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    It feels like recently there's been an arms race between shows, trying to see who can stuff the most ridiculous fanservice in...usually at the expense of plot. Quite a few recent shows have felt as if they were parodying themselves in their ridiculousness.

    What should be a limited niche has become the standard. Rather than throwing the occasional bone to these niche fans, shows are becoming the bone. Or something.
    Kamar, let's be honest here, you're actively looking for those shows.

    Yes, there are certainly weirdo fanservice shows that only exist to sell DVDs with uncensored episodes (which is a fair driver for sales - ffffffff Queen's Blade), but I've only seen perhaps a slight uptick.

    I'll admit, it's possible I'm only noticing it more recently because only started trying every single show that is subbed in the few years. Before a lot of it probably passed under my radar.

    I was going to say that I was speaking more generally of the fact that 90% of shows will play whatever cards they can manage from the moe and loli piles; if a little girl shows up, expect at least token fanservice from her...if not a freak accident that destroys her clothes and covers her in milk.

    But that's not exactly new...maybe the problem is improved art+less subtlety making it much harder for people who aren't fans of that stuff to ignore it/not notice it?

    Kamar on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Buy anime online from wholesale clearing houses. Only a fool goes to Bestbuy or god forbid FYE or any other media specialist. DVD Pacific, Rightstuff, hell even Amazon or sometimes directly from the localizers can get you some really great anime on the cheap.

    Amazon has an absolutely insane sale every few months.

    You're right though, I'm definitely not talking first run MSRP.

    This falls apart for Canadians like me, cause the Canadian websites are still expensive and ordering from the American ones hits us with shipping and duty costs that make up the difference anyway.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    As someone who was pretty into anime 6-8 years ago, here's what I see as the main issues driving decline.

    The success of things like Dragonball Z and Cowboy Bebop caused a lot more money to get involved, while at the same time raising the prices that American distributors had to pay in order to get good licenses. Unfortunately, at the same exact time as this was happening, Internet-based fansubs were becoming more prevalent, which hurt the anime companies two different ways.

    Since digisubs gave fans instant access to the new stuff in Japan---it made the older shows that the U.S. anime distributors were showing here a harder sell to fans. No matter how popular these shows are amongst the "community", more than likely these selfsame fans are unlikely to buy the DVD's when they come to the U.S due to the fact that they're fixated on some new show just starting in Japan. Usually the deeply hardcore communities for other things (games for instance) tend to excite interest in specific products---the hardcore anime community I was involved with (AnimeOnDVD.com) tended to be far more fixated on semi-legal grey-area items rather than actual products. When you're in the business of selling things, the fact that the "fans", the people who should form the core of your audience (and be reliable buyers), are more interested in things that literally are not buyable than actual shows was eventually going to be a problem.

    Of course, the fact that there has not been a resurgence in popularity since those halcyon days is also an extremely big issue. The declining fanbase means that it's much harder to reach a good break even point, especially when the licenses you are buying cost more.

    All that, I think, created a proverbial death trap for many of the industry players. That many of the players still remaining are ones that managed to get "big shows" that provide a reliable base of income is not surprising to me.

    mynameisguido on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    Tame by today's standards. And it did have pantsu and underage nudity. Even more so when chibichan came around. This moeblob thing has always been there. It's better drawn and animated now I guess. There's more of it, but there's more of everything these days.

    Not in any of it's American TV versions.

    Also, even in the Japanese version the loli didn't appear till the last few seasons... I'm not sure though nor do I care enough to check.

    Chibi Moon appeared in the second season, R. She pretty much dominates Super S.


    Sailor Moon didn't really have nudity. The worst is implied during transformations.
    (Episode 200 is a notable exception, but nothing was shown.)

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
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