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The Tragic Death of the Western [Anime Industry]

1567911

Posts

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    I'm trying to understand what constitutes Success and Failure for something that airs on Adult Swim. And can understand AS winning or losing, its the developer of the show I'm a little confused about.

    Take an example, oh I don't know, Samurai Champloo. It gets translated and put on AS weekly. AS would determine success through "ratings." The amount of viewers that they reveal down to a discrete number, which in turn leads to ad revenue. I suppose things that hurt it's chances is kids jumping straight to the fansub in response to buzz, then not watching it on AS. After all, unlike a super long series like Pokemon, Naruto and Bleach, they are down to 26 episodes or something. Each individual episode is "worth more," and there's less of a reason for someone to watch a rerun of it.

    But ultimately the show gets buzz and the show becomes known. I just finally caved and bought the Blu Ray set for about 40$ on Amazon. In the long term, retail becomes the name of the game for these shows, am I wrong?
    well, how much would it cost to get all of, say, Naruto on blu ray?

    It's up to episode 200 by now I think.

    I wanted to talk about that too, but I couldn't find the right words. A super long show like Naruto or Pokemon would be more dependent on ratings than retail. It needs fans consistently tuning in.

    A short show like Paranoia Agent, FLCL, or anything 13 or 26 episodes long [I expect] is going to want more retail DVD/BluRay sales.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Pokemon did well not entirely because of viewers tuning in but because of the many movies that came out.

    The films were well marketed, and actually went to theaters, which is mostly not seen for the majority of anime and then got like a thousand games and toy spinoffs(well it started as a game, but what ever).

    I would think that if the movies came out for Naruto at the show's peak interest and got marketed, and made some damn sense and was part of the series... I think it would have done well.

    I think throwing in a movie during the time that a lot of filler is due to hit the series might actually save the viewer interest.

    DanHibiki on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Pokemon did well not entirely because of viewers tuning in but because of the many movies that came out.

    The films were well marketed, and actually went to theaters, which is mostly not seen for the majority of anime and then got like a thousand games and toy spinoffs(well it started as a game, but what ever).

    I would think that if the movies came out for Naruto at the show's peak interest and got marketed, and made some damn sense and was part of the series... I think it would have done well.

    I think throwing in a movie during the time that a lot of filler is due to hit the series might actually save the viewer interest.

    I'm not so sure. Pokemon has been about being a marketable franchise from day one like Transformers. That changes everything.

    mrt144 on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    Anyway, regarding filler, it's just a different way of doing things. US shows show 13-26 episodes and then take the rest of the year off, see you next season. Anime shows an episode every week but only a "season's" worth will be canon, then instead of just not putting out anything, they add filler. Filler can be good, the recent Zanpakutou arc in Bleach was really excellent IMO, but often it's both poorly written and poorly drawn.

    What a lot of my friends do is just treat it like a western show and stop watching during the filler. Nothing is forcing you to keep watching.

    Lanlaorn on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, but with the popularity of Naruto shooting so high at it's start, someone should have guessed that it was going to be a 'big thing' and started marketing it world wide. Instead they let it stagnate.

    DanHibiki on
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Man why can't they remove every trace of japanese culture from my cartoons. I don't see why I should have to put up with this shit. They can speak english like normal people. /sarcasm

    I've always seen these complaints as thinly veiled ethnocentricsm. It's pretty offensive. If it aint good american english fuck off am I right?

    I have no time or respect for that viewpoint. Zero.

    It's more a criticism of weeaboo who try and be something they aren't and fail at it spectacular. And I fail to see how taking out honorifics to preserve the integrity of japanese culture at the threat of pasty white nerds is disrespectful in the least.

    Weeaboo is one of those socially acceptable punching bag stereotypes invented so that people can still feel good about putting down others. Much easier to hate if you can pretend you understand a person by slapping a convenient label on them.

    If you are expecting me to go "oh right weaboos hah carry on then" you might want to take a step back. I fucking hate mindless stereotyping.

    I'm sorry, it's not a stereotype. They do exist. I've been around them.

    ...

    Are you really this fucking stupid? Just because there exist people that fit a particular stereotype doesn't mean it's not a stereotype? Do you honestly believe that they are conjured from thin air by racists and bigots? If there's one Asian that's good at math, does that mean that the "Asians are good at math" stereotype is no longer a stereotype? Really?

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zython wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Man why can't they remove every trace of japanese culture from my cartoons. I don't see why I should have to put up with this shit. They can speak english like normal people. /sarcasm

    I've always seen these complaints as thinly veiled ethnocentricsm. It's pretty offensive. If it aint good american english fuck off am I right?

    I have no time or respect for that viewpoint. Zero.

    It's more a criticism of weeaboo who try and be something they aren't and fail at it spectacular. And I fail to see how taking out honorifics to preserve the integrity of japanese culture at the threat of pasty white nerds is disrespectful in the least.

    Weeaboo is one of those socially acceptable punching bag stereotypes invented so that people can still feel good about putting down others. Much easier to hate if you can pretend you understand a person by slapping a convenient label on them.

    If you are expecting me to go "oh right weaboos hah carry on then" you might want to take a step back. I fucking hate mindless stereotyping.

    I'm sorry, it's not a stereotype. They do exist. I've been around them.

    ...

    Are you really this fucking stupid? Just because there exist people that fit a particular stereotype doesn't mean it's not a stereotype? Do you honestly believe that they are conjured from thin air by racists and bigots? If there's one Asian that's good at math, does that mean that the "Asians are good at math" stereotype is no longer a stereotype? Really?

    Is there a convention celebrating Asians excelling at math? Cause you know, stereotypes that celebrate being stereotypes is kind of what anime conventions are about.

    mrt144 on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    we don't have a general anime thread in this subforum. the D&D mods and PA administration have decided that D&D is not an appropriate venue for an anime thread based upon our experiences with the D&D anime thread.

    i understand that you don't like it and that you think it's unfair and totally stupid and that all of you honorable moderate anime fans have been tarred with the pedo brush of just a few outlying freakshows and all of that.

    this has been made clear to me

    but there is not a general anime thread in D&D.

    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    Anyway, regarding filler, it's just a different way of doing things. US shows show 13-26 episodes and then take the rest of the year off, see you next season. Anime shows an episode every week but only a "season's" worth will be canon, then instead of just not putting out anything, they add filler. Filler can be good, the recent Zanpakutou arc in Bleach was really excellent IMO, but often it's both poorly written and poorly drawn.

    What a lot of my friends do is just treat it like a western show and stop watching during the filler. Nothing is forcing you to keep watching.

    Apperantly, it's because of the way the TV stations operate. If you don't sit on a time slot, it gets sold off to someone else.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Man why can't they remove every trace of japanese culture from my cartoons. I don't see why I should have to put up with this shit. They can speak english like normal people. /sarcasm

    I've always seen these complaints as thinly veiled ethnocentricsm. It's pretty offensive. If it aint good american english fuck off am I right?

    I have no time or respect for that viewpoint. Zero.

    It's more a criticism of weeaboo who try and be something they aren't and fail at it spectacular. And I fail to see how taking out honorifics to preserve the integrity of japanese culture at the threat of pasty white nerds is disrespectful in the least.

    Weeaboo is one of those socially acceptable punching bag stereotypes invented so that people can still feel good about putting down others. Much easier to hate if you can pretend you understand a person by slapping a convenient label on them.

    If you are expecting me to go "oh right weaboos hah carry on then" you might want to take a step back. I fucking hate mindless stereotyping.

    I'm sorry, it's not a stereotype. They do exist. I've been around them.

    ...

    Are you really this fucking stupid? Just because there exist people that fit a particular stereotype doesn't mean it's not a stereotype? Do you honestly believe that they are conjured from thin air by racists and bigots? If there's one Asian that's good at math, does that mean that the "Asians are good at math" stereotype is no longer a stereotype? Really?

    Is there a convention celebrating Asians excelling at math? Cause you know, stereotypes that celebrate being stereotypes is kind of what anime conventions are about.

    I'm just going to take this as a "yes".

    Edit: Funny, I though anime conventions were about people convening. For anime and anime-related goods. But apparantly, I was misinformed about the true sinister nature of the beast.

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    we don't have a general anime thread in this subforum. the D&D mods and PA administration have decided that D&D is not an appropriate venue for an anime thread based upon our experiences with the D&D anime thread.

    i understand that you don't like it and that you think it's unfair and totally stupid and that all of you honorable moderate anime fans have been tarred with the pedo brush of just a few outlying freakshows and all of that.

    this has been made clear to me

    but there is not a general anime thread in D&D.

    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    Isn't it telling that one could blame some of the problems of anime with the perversion of it as a form of entertainment and then that exact thing happens in a discussion about it?

    mrt144 on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zython wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Man why can't they remove every trace of japanese culture from my cartoons. I don't see why I should have to put up with this shit. They can speak english like normal people. /sarcasm

    I've always seen these complaints as thinly veiled ethnocentricsm. It's pretty offensive. If it aint good american english fuck off am I right?

    I have no time or respect for that viewpoint. Zero.

    It's more a criticism of weeaboo who try and be something they aren't and fail at it spectacular. And I fail to see how taking out honorifics to preserve the integrity of japanese culture at the threat of pasty white nerds is disrespectful in the least.

    Weeaboo is one of those socially acceptable punching bag stereotypes invented so that people can still feel good about putting down others. Much easier to hate if you can pretend you understand a person by slapping a convenient label on them.

    If you are expecting me to go "oh right weaboos hah carry on then" you might want to take a step back. I fucking hate mindless stereotyping.

    I'm sorry, it's not a stereotype. They do exist. I've been around them.

    ...

    Are you really this fucking stupid? Just because there exist people that fit a particular stereotype doesn't mean it's not a stereotype? Do you honestly believe that they are conjured from thin air by racists and bigots? If there's one Asian that's good at math, does that mean that the "Asians are good at math" stereotype is no longer a stereotype? Really?

    Is there a convention celebrating Asians excelling at math? Cause you know, stereotypes that celebrate being stereotypes is kind of what anime conventions are about.

    I'm just going to take this as a "yes".

    That's okay, you can't win them all.

    mrt144 on
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    Anyway, regarding filler, it's just a different way of doing things. US shows show 13-26 episodes and then take the rest of the year off, see you next season. Anime shows an episode every week but only a "season's" worth will be canon, then instead of just not putting out anything, they add filler. Filler can be good, the recent Zanpakutou arc in Bleach was really excellent IMO, but often it's both poorly written and poorly drawn.

    What a lot of my friends do is just treat it like a western show and stop watching during the filler. Nothing is forcing you to keep watching.

    Apperantly, it's because of the way the TV stations operate. If you don't sit on a time slot, it gets sold off to someone else.

    I've asked this before and the answer I got was that filler doesn't substantially reduce the number of viewers so it's more profitable for two shows to each have filler than to rotate them in the same time slot.

    khain on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    we don't have a general anime thread in this subforum. the D&D mods and PA administration have decided that D&D is not an appropriate venue for an anime thread based upon our experiences with the D&D anime thread.

    i understand that you don't like it and that you think it's unfair and totally stupid and that all of you honorable moderate anime fans have been tarred with the pedo brush of just a few outlying freakshows and all of that.

    this has been made clear to me

    but there is not a general anime thread in D&D.

    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    Isn't it telling that one could blame some of the problems of anime with the perversion of it as a form of entertainment and then that exact thing happens in a discussion about it?

    I can only speculate to the details, but it seems to be a fairly straightforward case--on this forum, people can discuss matters that they are permitted too. So go the rules. If some specific matter isn't permitted, than people can't talk about it (without some sort of repercussion).

    It's pretty straightforward. In the Htiman: Blood Money thread, talking about one the Hitman games can get you, in time, infracted. What aspect or in what regard to which the game is irrelevant--talking about that specific game is just against the rules. And you have to follow them.

    It's not that abnormal. In the past, I was on a general discussion forum where the option for a Star Wars forum was ended indefinitely for similar reasons, when a specific Wookipedia article trigger a outflow of inappropriate artwork by fans in the thread. That thread got shut down, and it was decided there was no place for specific discussion of Star Wars characters in the forum (the games and movies themselves weren't off limits in other threads). I'm pretty sure that rule is still in effect now.

    It's a privilege afforded to the mods. That's just how forums work.

    We need to be careful or face those penalties. Or stop talking. Again, purely speculation on my part. I realize the irony of bringing this up, which is only related to the thread itself, and not the state of industry.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Another factor that just came to mind is the growth of comedy anime over the past few years. This alienated American fans, who tended to be action fans who complained that the entire market had been taken over by "moeblob" (moeblob exists, and has increased over the years, but most of the bellyaching was about the T&A just as common in action series but only disparaged in comedy). The main problem, though, was the fact that comedy doesn't translate well, partly due to comedy being social commentary, partly due to wordplay being difficult, and partly due to comedic rhythm being broken by reading subs or trying to match flaps (for a demonstration, watch Desert Punk, where the comedy clearly benefits from the fact that everyone is wearing helmets that make flap-matching unnecessary). Combine this with a dwindling backlog of good series to pad imports, and you get a drought of import-friendly series.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Zython wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »

    Is there a convention celebrating Asians excelling at math? Cause you know, stereotypes that celebrate being stereotypes is kind of what anime conventions are about.

    I'm just going to take this as a "yes".

    That's okay, you can't win them all.

    That's true. You can't stop people from doing whatever they want on a forum as long as it is within the rules.
    In particular, you can't prevent me from calling you a bigot. You clearly are and you have not attempted to claim otherwise. In fact you seem to take pride in it. As such it is not an ad hominem, it is a statement of fact.

    Have a good life, bigot.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Another factor that just came to mind is the growth of comedy anime over the past few years. This alienated American fans, who tended to be action fans who complained that the entire market had been taken over by "moeblob" (moeblob exists, and has increased over the years, but most of the bellyaching was about the T&A just as common in action series but only disparaged in comedy). The main problem, though, was the fact that comedy doesn't translate well, partly due to comedy being social commentary, partly due to wordplay being difficult, and partly due to comedic rhythm being broken by reading subs or trying to match flaps (for a demonstration, watch Desert Punk, where the comedy clearly benefits from the fact that everyone is wearing helmets that make flap-matching unnecessary). Combine this with a dwindling backlog of good series to pad imports, and you get a drought of import-friendly series.

    The moeblob trend has probably hurt the expected market.

    And, if you look at the late 90s/early aughts at least the shows that stick out in my mind--the biggest budgets, the most advertising, the biggest fanfare--you get a somewhat narrow definition of show types, which coincided with an expansion of the US fanbase. They were action shows--though this doesn't really do them service, you had adult action shows and then young action shows which were basically the shounen traditions we have today, and everything in between.

    The businesses might have expected more of the same, and neglected to consider that, just ten years earlier, the scene looked quiet different from that.

    We've gotten a lot more comedy shows, versus the handful of comedy giants of that time period.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Another factor that just came to mind is the growth of comedy anime over the past few years. This alienated American fans, who tended to be action fans who complained that the entire market had been taken over by "moeblob" (moeblob exists, and has increased over the years, but most of the bellyaching was about the T&A just as common in action series but only disparaged in comedy). The main problem, though, was the fact that comedy doesn't translate well, partly due to comedy being social commentary, partly due to wordplay being difficult, and partly due to comedic rhythm being broken by reading subs or trying to match flaps (for a demonstration, watch Desert Punk, where the comedy clearly benefits from the fact that everyone is wearing helmets that make flap-matching unnecessary). Combine this with a dwindling backlog of good series to pad imports, and you get a drought of import-friendly series.

    But I love comedy anime. :?

    mrt144 on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    Lol relax if I didn't care enough to actually post in the previous anime threads why would I bother trying to "fight the powa" here. But this crazy oppressive thing feels waaaay out of character for these forums and I just wanted to know what's up. If the PA adminstration is laying down the law then what can you do?

    Lanlaorn on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    mrt144 on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    ...wait what? Do you mean cartoons made, for example, by North American corporations?

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How many animes have been western first are foremost and exported to Japan? How successful have they been?

    ...wait what? Do you mean cartoons made, for example, by North American corporations?

    No, I mean stuff done stylistically in the anime style, but wholly western efforts i.e. stuff that was done in english for the american market first and foremost.

    mrt144 on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Like Clone Wars cartoons?

    DanHibiki on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Like Clone Wars cartoons?

    I guess? I'm just trying to garner a list and see if part of the issue truly cultural disconnect.

    mrt144 on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Transformers was written and recorded in the US but they hired Japanese animators I think, so does that count?

    Lanlaorn on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Transformers was written and recorded in the US but they hired Japanese animators I think, so does that count?

    Jesus, we have to go all the way back to Transformers? FML

    mrt144 on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Maybe it would be easier to just straight out ask:

    How did Avatar: The Last Airbender do in the Asian Market?

    shryke on
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Jesus, we have to go all the way back to Transformers? FML

    I don't even know what point you're trying to make here, in the US animation isn't taken as seriously so it's only natural there are fewer "winners". Maybe ER or CSI or whatever the fuck is big in Japan, I have no idea.

    Lanlaorn on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    No one knows what's popular in Japan, not even the Japanese.

    DanHibiki on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Jesus, we have to go all the way back to Transformers? FML

    I don't even know what point you're trying to make here, in the US animation isn't taken as seriously so it's only natural there are fewer "winners". Maybe ER or CSI or whatever the fuck is big in Japan, I have no idea.

    I'm not trying to make a point, I'm genuinely curious if cultural differences are really one of the biggest barriers to success.

    mrt144 on
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Big O is a pretty westernised anime. It's clearly got huge western influences. I'm sure you could watch the dub version and believe it was not made in japan. All the mannerisms are english, all the characters are english.

    The main character is around 30, wears a suit, is a complete english gentleman with a dash of rogue.

    There are no schoolgirls at all. In fact the only "teenager" is an asexual robot.

    I have not actually seen an anime that was so "unjapanese".

    The reason I'm bringing it up is that it did really badly in japan. So badly it's first season ended on a cliffhanger and there was a chance it wouldn't come back. They weren't able to make the second season until three years later and their main sponser for the second season was Cartoon Network.

    If that isn't a compelling argument for the influence of cultural differences I'm not sure what is.
    wiki wrote:
    The television series is designed as a tribute to Japanese and Western shows from the 1960s and 1970s. The series is done in the style of film noir and combines the feel of a detective show with the mecha genre of anime. The setpieces are reminiscent of Toho monster movies and the score is an eclectic mix of styles and musical homages.
    The Big O premiered on 13 October 1999. The show was not a hit in its native Japan, rather it was reduced from an outlined 26 episodes to 13 episodes. Western audiences were more receptive and the series achieved the success its creators were looking for.[7][38] In an interview with AnimePlay, Keiichi Sato said "This is exactly as we had planned", referring to the success overseas.[14]

    Several words appear constantly in the English-language reviews; adjectives like "hip", "sleek," "stylish", "classy", and, above all, "cool" serve to describe the artwork, the concept, and the series itself. Reviewers have pointed out references and homages to various works of fiction, namely Batman, Giant Robo, the works of Isaac Asimov, Fritz Lang's Metropolis, James Bond, and Cowboy Bebop. But "while saying that may cause one to think the show is completely derivative", reads an article at Anime on DVD, "The Big O still manages to stand out as something original amongst the other numerous cookie-cutter anime shows." One reviewer cites the extensive homages as one of the series problems and calls to unoriginality on the creators part.

    While it does have japanese influences these are mainly related to toho monster movies and Big Robo.
    Before The Big O, Sunrise Studios was a subcontractor for Warner Bros. Animation's Batman: The Animated Series, one of the series' influences.

    Roger Smith is a pastiche of the Bruce Wayne persona and the Batman. The character design resembles Wayne, complete with slicked-back hair and double-breasted business suit. Like Bruce, Roger prides himself in being a rich playboy to the extent that one of his household's rules is only women may be let into his mansion without his permission. Like Batman, Roger Smith carries a no-gun policy, albeit more flexible. Unlike the personal motives of the Batman, Roger enforces this rule for "it's all part of being a gentleman." Among Roger's gadgetry is the Griffon, a large, black hi-tech sedan comparable to the Batmobile, a grappling cable that shoots out his wristwatch and the giant robot Angel calls "Roger's alter ego."

    The Big O's cast of supporting characters includes Norman, Roger's faithful mechanically-inclined butler who fills the role of Alfred Pennyworth; R. Dorothy Wayneright, who plays the role of the sidekick; and Dan Dastun, a good honest cop who, like Jim Gordon, is a friend to the hero.

    The other major influence is Mitsuteru Yokoyama's Giant Robo. Before working on The Big O, Kazuyoshi Katayama and other animators worked with Yasuhiro Imagawa on Giant Robo: The Day the Earth Stood Still. The feature, a "retro chic" homage to Yokoyama's career, took seven years to produce and suffered low sales and high running costs. Frustrated by the experience, Katayama and his staff put all their efforts into making "good" with The Big O.

    Like Giant Robo, the megadeuses of Big O are metal behemoths. The designs are strange and "more macho than practical," sporting big stovepipe arms and exposed rivets. Unlike the giants of other mecha series, the megadeuses do not exhibit ninja-like speed nor grace. Instead, the robots are armed with "old school" weaponry such as missiles, piston powered punches, machine guns and laser cannons.

    The reason I'm quoting all this is just to ensure nobody thinks "Ah yes but you know it's anime so it has to have x y z bad things".

    It has none of the bad things and all the things westerners find utterly awesome and spectacular. And it completely tanked in japan.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    It's just a style difference man. I know a guy who grew up in the same area, went to the same schools and has the same ethnic background, so what "culturally" we're the same type of American, right? He really digs old French cinema, French New Wave stuff, he like Jean Luc Godard and I like Masamume Shirow.

    Why does anime have to be a smash hit to be successful? I'm a fan of British Science Fiction novels too but I'm not going to worry that my favorite authors aren't outselling Stephanie Meyer.

    Lanlaorn on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    It's just a style difference man. I know a guy who grew up in the same area, went to the same schools and has the same ethnic background, so what "culturally" we're the same type of American, right? He really digs old French cinema, French New Wave stuff, he like Jean Luc Godard and I like Masamume Shirow.

    Why does anime have to be a smash hit to be successful? I'm a fan of British Science Fiction novels too but I'm not going to worry that my favorite authors aren't outselling Stephanie Meyer.

    Have you just missed the entire point of the thread?

    mrt144 on
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    Anyway, regarding filler, it's just a different way of doing things. US shows show 13-26 episodes and then take the rest of the year off, see you next season. Anime shows an episode every week but only a "season's" worth will be canon, then instead of just not putting out anything, they add filler. Filler can be good, the recent Zanpakutou arc in Bleach was really excellent IMO, but often it's both poorly written and poorly drawn.

    What a lot of my friends do is just treat it like a western show and stop watching during the filler. Nothing is forcing you to keep watching.

    Apperantly, it's because of the way the TV stations operate. If you don't sit on a time slot, it gets sold off to someone else.

    For example, that happened to Code Geass, and lead the production staff to have to retool the series in order to fit the new demo for that time slot.

    Lanz on
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  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Have you just missed the entire point of the thread?

    Enlighten me, because this started as an argument about piracy and prices and I don't see how your previous theme of "weeabos and pedophiles" or your current point that (apparently) Japan is so alien that Americans simply can't handle it (?) have any relevance.

    It's clear that people do like anime. The problem is getting them to buy things.

    Lanlaorn on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Why does anime need to be a smash hit to be successful?

    Because if it isn't it stops getting made and then a show you like is canceled.

    Why isn't most anime succesful by definition of either critical and/or commericial success?

    Too many weeaboos and pedophile oriented storylines alienate potential viewers. Allegedly.

    It's clear to me that it's not just enough to have enthusiastic fans who don't pay the bills.

    mrt144 on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    we don't have a general anime thread in this subforum. the D&D mods and PA administration have decided that D&D is not an appropriate venue for an anime thread based upon our experiences with the D&D anime thread.

    i understand that you don't like it and that you think it's unfair and totally stupid and that all of you honorable moderate anime fans have been tarred with the pedo brush of just a few outlying freakshows and all of that.

    this has been made clear to me

    but there is not a general anime thread in D&D.

    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    It's just hard to accept your judgement as fair and reasonable when you basically go out of your way to diss anime fans every chance you get, from posting out-of-context quotes in the chat thread to make people look like pedos, to putting weeaboo in every thread title, to just being rude and confrontational to anime fans in general. Not to mention that you are far stricter on anime fans than you are on everyone else in D&D. Losing the thread is frustrating enough without having to see the person in power, who has made it clear he has no interest in actually being fair about things, constantly trash talking everyone who dares to like anime. You basically bait us and then keep us from being able to stand up for ourselves by either infracting us or ignoring us, and then you go to your clique in the chat thread(that has had it's own share of "depraved" stuff in it go completely unpunished) and brag about how you sure showed us weeaboos.

    I'll probably get infracted for saying this, but if that's the risk I have to take so be it, others have told me they've had their PMs ignored, so taking things private seems to mean nothing.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2010
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Why are we not allowed to talk about anime in general? I understand the last thread had some hentai talk or something and ok, but why isn't the rule "hey guys don't talk anything sexual"?

    Because this is stupid, we had a couple natural segues from the topic at hand that were completely harmless. It's not fun to have to keep watching what you type to make sure it doesn't violate some arbitrary though police rule. Stamping out all anime talk seems ridiculously extreme.

    we don't have a general anime thread in this subforum. the D&D mods and PA administration have decided that D&D is not an appropriate venue for an anime thread based upon our experiences with the D&D anime thread.

    i understand that you don't like it and that you think it's unfair and totally stupid and that all of you honorable moderate anime fans have been tarred with the pedo brush of just a few outlying freakshows and all of that.

    this has been made clear to me

    but there is not a general anime thread in D&D.

    so it strikes me that you have a few options here: you can keep risking infractions by trying to shoehorn a general anime community out of inappropriate threads around here while complaining about the injustice of it all, or you can find somewhere that encourages anime talk until your teeth fall out

    and they are out there! i know this!

    It's just hard to accept your judgement as fair and reasonable when you basically go out of your way to diss anime fans every chance you get, from posting out-of-context quotes in the chat thread to make people look like pedos, to putting weeaboo in every thread title, to just being rude and confrontational to anime fans in general. Not to mention that you are far stricter on anime fans than you are on everyone else in D&D. Losing the thread is frustrating enough without having to see the person in power, who has made it clear he has no interest in actually being fair about things, constantly trash talking everyone who dares to like anime. You basically bait us and then keep us from being able to stand up for ourselves by either infracting us or ignoring us, and then you go to your clique in the chat thread(that has had it's own share of "depraved" stuff in it go completely unpunished) and brag about how you sure showed us weeaboos.

    I'll probably get infracted for saying this, but if that's the risk I have to take so be it, others have told me they've had their PMs ignored, so taking things private seems to mean nothing.

    o god

    look

    you do not have a general anime thread in D&D

    if you want one elsewhere then that is fine with me

    i cannot handle moderating your particular brand of obsessive nerdery in this forum

    i just don't have the time, expertise, or inclination

    but you know, probably /b does

    and probably somethingawful too if you're willing to spring the $5 per month or whatever.

    anyways, i have responded - at length - to a good number of PM's from outraged and disappointed weeaboos

    and i have made your concerns and complaints clear to the PA administration powers that be

    but I do not think that your thread is coming back in this subforum, regardless of my personal feelings or inclinations about your "hobby"

    really

    you just need to give this up

    please

    Irond Will on
    Wqdwp8l.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Wait, Irond Will, you were the one that gave all the anime threads those crazy titles? I always assumed it was self-depreciating humor by the thread starters. That's really not cool to do from the outside as a mod.

    Lanlaorn on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    That's the problem right there...you fit in every chance to be insulting to anime fans that you can. Being an anime fan and sticking up for myself makes me an "obsessive nerd", and a "weeaboo", and it means I belong on a cesspool like 4chan.

    The last anime thread had barely anything wrong in it aside from the bad OP and a couple of really minor things. I went back and looked at the last couple dozen pages of it and saw nothing of the things you claimed it had. You talk as if modding the thread would be some daunting task, but there was barely anything in that thread that called for modding to begin with. But instead of saying "hey, this OP is retarded, someone else make a new one that isn't creepy" or even "hey, this OP crossed a line and we've decided to close the anime thread" we get a rant about how we're all a bunch of creeps and pedos. This, combined with the constant insults, combined with your unwillingness to treat the anime fans the same as the rest of D&D, makes me feel like you have a giant chip on your shoulder that I did nothing to deserve.

    It's not just taking the thread, it's the way you basically rub salt in our wounds and shit on us every chance you get. It's hard to get over losing the thread when we keep getting reminded of how we feel and what we think means nothing and when we gets tons of undeserved scorn thrown our way.

    LockedOnTarget on
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