Love, Loathe, LoL and Lulls

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't understand that line of thinking Josh. It's like. If someone tells you to pull your pants down before you poop, do you need to practice that? Do most of these people shit their pants because pants pulling requires practice?

    You know what? Nevermind, that seems about right.

    Maybe video games aren't for these people.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I get the whole "it's easier to see the fight and understand it than to hear/read about it and understand it" but I am talking about smart people who know how to play the game completely going into "durrr" mode when faced with something new. I don't get how you can hop onto a dragon in Oc and look at the tooltips and not piece together that "ok this poison bolt hits the enemy and siphons life back to me and this channels health from me to my target" LIGHTBULB! I know what I need to do now...

    Mutilate on
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    No, I agree with Josh. Frankly, bowen, that attitude is what turns me off from even trying sometimes. Yeah, many fights are simple changes to the norm, but if I'm already balancing having to do my own thing while watching the rest of the puggers to make sure I can account for them fucking up, throwing a new wrench in the works can cause just enough stress that I will make mistakes.

    That being said, Oculus is pretty easy. I'm not going to rage or disparage anyone for not getting it the first time, though.

    EDIT: There is a bit of complexity to Oculus in that you don't necessarily know what the other drakes can do. An otherwise smart DPS on an amber drake might think to stop DPS or freeze if Eregos turns to him if he doesn't know that the ruby drakes have Martyr. The same DPS might think to kill off the whelps when they come up if they don't know about the ruby's chain attack. It doesn't help that the final ability isn't unlocked until just before the boss fight, so if you want to practice, it's on whelps.

    drhazard on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Most of the time it's the people who can't do it 4 times, and then the 5th time we manage to scrape by. Then someone like me, who has never touched them, can do it right the first time? That's a pretty big hurfdurf. Especially when that 4 times is with the same person who always uses the green drake, or heals on maly.

    I think at one point we went into maly 4 days in a row just because we were always getting so close. I probably should've did the healing myself.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Eh, I just give them the benefit of the doubt though. I can go an entire heroic and only remember to put up Vigilance on the final boss since I haven't played my warrior as much as my priest lately. It's whatever.

    drhazard on
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  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What I loathe about Oculus is that the whole drake gimmick is just for moving around, you don't really need to fight on one until the final boss. Mounting and dismonting...

    Tyberius on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    bowen wrote: »
    I don't understand that line of thinking Josh. It's like. If someone tells you to pull your pants down before you poop, do you need to practice that? Do most of these people shit their pants because pants pulling requires practice?

    You know what? Nevermind, that seems about right.

    Maybe video games aren't for these people.

    I think from the way you're talking about people you don't have much experience with people who have different learning styles. Some people absolutely have to do something like Malygos hands on to learn how to do it, especially when you combine having to move at certain times with hitting certain buttons, and if they don't understand how energy works they'll be wondering why they can't hit 1 1 2 as fast as they think they should be able to.

    Here is a real life example: My wife is a great Holy Paladin, but it took her a long time to get there. She has never specced anything but holy on her character, and she has to practice to learn each new mechanic they add to the game. She is not a fast twitch, analytical video gamer. She is an intelligent person, working on a master's degree, but not everybody has the same skillset.

    For example, while the first time I did the argent tournament dailies, about 2 seconds in I realized exactly how I would need to do them to beat the jousting opponents. She probably failed at it for 10 minutes before I explained to her exactly what to do and she was able to do it.

    You would be amazed at how many different ways of learning things there are. It doesn't make somebody stupid if they learn differently than you.

    As simple as it sounds when talking about it, Malygos P3 consists of:

    1) Using situational awareness to know when to strafe
    2) Hitting 1 1 2 at the right pace and understanding that you may have to wait to do the 2 if you need to wait on energy.
    3) Actually having a rudimentary understanding of combo points if you're going to use the shield.

    For some people like me and you, reading the tooltips or an overview of p3 of the fight in text is enough and we're good to perform it perfectly. For others, it just isn't that easy.

    However, I like to think the example you gave of needing 3 weeks on Malygos was an exaggeration. I was leading 25 man PUGs on Malygos about 3 months after Wrath came out on a weekly basis, and while I always made sure I explained it in a very clear, precise, and more importantly, non condescending manner that if you were DPS you were only doing 1 1 2 and healers doing 3 3 3 4 on themselves, and that I would call on vent when it was time to shift left, etc., we one shotted it almost every single week. Even the people who need to see it always did well on that fight.

    Realistically, for shit like Oculus, those dragon guys should give a quick speech about how the abilities should be used, like "Use the temporal rift until you build up power, then unleash your shock lance for maximum damage, and don't forget to stop time when Eregos becomes angry!" If they're going to make you use the dragons, they should've made the whole instance a vehicle thing instead of not using them on a boss until the last guy too, so people had practice other than just accidentally agroing 5 drakes, but that's a different point.

    It has taken a long time for me to learn that other people may be able to read the tooltips on these abilities and understand the words, but not be able to put it all together on their own without some guidance. I am a far better player at WoW, manager at work, and to be completely honest, a better husband now that I have learned to accept these differences in people.

    Joshmvii on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    I don't get how you can hop onto a dragon in Oc and look at the tooltips and not piece together that "ok this poison bolt hits the enemy and siphons life back to me and this channels health from me to my target" LIGHTBULB! I know what I need to do now...

    The thing is, there are plenty of people out there who that light bulb wouldn't immediately come on for. You don't get it because you understand it. It seems very simple, but the way the human brain works from person to person is not simple, and it's not necessarily because the person is stupid.

    Joshmvii on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    I don't get how you can hop onto a dragon in Oc and look at the tooltips and not piece together that "ok this poison bolt hits the enemy and siphons life back to me and this channels health from me to my target" LIGHTBULB! I know what I need to do now...

    The thing is, there are plenty of people out there who that light bulb wouldn't immediately come on for. You don't get it because you understand it. It seems very simple, but the way the human brain works from person to person is not simple, and it's not necessarily because the person is stupid.

    I disagree.

    If it takes a person 20 minutes to figure out that the square block doesn't fit into the circle hole, and then only figures it out when someone tells them "No, the Square block goes into the Square hole." then I am quick to call them stupid.

    Same with WoW. If you are a rogue and you almost kill that mob 100 times, but every time he casts that one spell with a 5 second cast time it kills you and you don't kick it, then you are stupid.

    There are certainly degrees of intelligence.

    Buddies on
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I don't want to dismiss your argument out of hand, but that's just hyperbole, plain and simple.

    drhazard on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The thing with Maly is the daily quest drakes work the exact same way. If you needed practice then you had unlimited attempts on drakes outside.

    Opty on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    People aren't necessarily stupid. They could just be bad at video games.

    shadowane on
    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • drhazarddrhazard Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Well, yes, except most people do Malygos by sticking only to defined roles (healing or DPS) and leaving Flame Shield for when he targets you, while Aces High! forces you to do everything all at once in order to stay alive.

    drhazard on
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  • slurpeepoopslurpeepoop Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Loathe: Having maxed out my main account with 10 Horde 80s on my main server, I'd like to start playing Alliance side to get the stories/quests/etc. from a different viewpoint. However, I can't bring myself to start some new guys since I want to wait until Cataclysm so I can have the new class/race combinations. Also, werewolves.


    Love: RAFing myself and using the trial account to level random characters to 20 in an hour. It's fun to get a feel for the Alliance lands without any sort of time commitment.

    slurpeepoop on


  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Buddies wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    I don't get how you can hop onto a dragon in Oc and look at the tooltips and not piece together that "ok this poison bolt hits the enemy and siphons life back to me and this channels health from me to my target" LIGHTBULB! I know what I need to do now...

    The thing is, there are plenty of people out there who that light bulb wouldn't immediately come on for. You don't get it because you understand it. It seems very simple, but the way the human brain works from person to person is not simple, and it's not necessarily because the person is stupid.

    I disagree.

    If it takes a person 20 minutes to figure out that the square block doesn't fit into the circle hole, and then only figures it out when someone tells them "No, the Square block goes into the Square hole." then I am quick to call them stupid.

    Same with WoW. If you are a rogue and you almost kill that mob 100 times, but every time he casts that one spell with a 5 second cast time it kills you and you don't kick it, then you are stupid.

    There are certainly degrees of intelligence.

    If you think putting a square block in a circle hole is the same thing as somebody doing a boss fight that's new to them which involves using 2 or 3 abilities which use mechanics they may never have utilized, needing situational awareness that may not be nearly as important in the role they're normally in, and which uses resource management they may not be familiar with, then I might be inclined to question where exactly you fall on your intelligence scale.

    If you want to be a good raid leader or somebody that people respect, you recognize that people learn differently and you help them. If you want to be that guy who everybody perceives as arrogant who thinks everyone is stupid because they're not as quick at picking up WoW mechanics as you are, then by all means, feel free.

    Joshmvii on
  • JadedJaded Registered User regular
    edited May 2010

    I disagree.

    If it takes a person 20 minutes to figure out that the square block doesn't fit into the circle hole, and then only figures it out when someone tells them "No, the Square block goes into the Square hole." then I am quick to call them stupid.

    Same with WoW. If you are a rogue and you almost kill that mob 100 times, but every time he casts that one spell with a 5 second cast time it kills you and you don't kick it, then you are stupid.

    There are certainly degrees of intelligence.

    In regards to not recognizing different learning styles I present you with:
    Visual (spatial). You prefer using pictures, images, and spatial understanding.
    Aural (auditory-musical). You prefer using sound and music.
    Verbal (linguistic). You prefer using words, both in speech and writing.
    Physical (kinesthetic). You prefer using your body, hands and sense of touch.
    Logical (mathematical). You prefer using logic, reasoning and systems.
    Social (interpersonal). You prefer to learn in groups or with other people.
    Solitary (intrapersonal). You prefer to work alone and use self-study.

    Jaded on
    I can't think of anything clever.
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Here is the thing... it's not a learning style issue it's cognitive reasoning and analytical thinking. Maybe I am wrong, actually I know that I am wrong but regardless, by level 80 I assume a player has an understanding of game mechanics and how they work. So when they see something new, that understanding should help them figure out what they need to do. Yes, I am aware that what I just said is painfully simplistic. That was my whole point though. I don't get how a something like OC or Maly throws people off sooooo much.

    Mutilate on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    shadowane on
    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will. What you miss is practical application. I can live with mistakes because of lack of practical application. To say the game outside of instances is fundamentaly different than the game inside of them is silly. You are not silly. I don't think you to be silly. :P

    Mutilate on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    reVerse on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    Then I must have played a different game 1-80 than you did. The only thing you don't get to see is group dynamics. Even then with BC introducing those group designed quests you almost had to group at one point or the other.

    Also what do you mean "primary attack?" You mean auto attack? I am not aware that any class has a primary attack. No I am not trying to be a goose. I just am not following what you mean.

    Mutilate on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    Then I must have played a different game 1-80 than you did. The only thing you don't get to see is group dynamics. Even then with BC introducing those group designed quests you almost had to group at one point or the other.

    Also what do you mean "primary attack?" You mean auto attack? I am not aware that any class has a primary attack. No I am not trying to be a goose. I just am not following what you mean.

    Sinister Strike, Fireball, whatever. In very few cases you have to do anything but to run up to a mob and start spamming away. Heck, with casters, you can skip the whole "run up to a mob" bit.

    reVerse on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    Then I must have played a different game 1-80 than you did. The only thing you don't get to see is group dynamics. Even then with BC introducing those group designed quests you almost had to group at one point or the other.

    Also what do you mean "primary attack?" You mean auto attack? I am not aware that any class has a primary attack. No I am not trying to be a goose. I just am not following what you mean.

    Sinister Strike, Fireball, whatever. In very few cases you have to do anything but to run up to a mob and start spamming away. Heck, with casters, you can skip the whole "run up to a mob" bit.

    I never played that way. I always used any and all tools available to me. I wanted to be creative and try different things, but thats my style. I guess for some people they are content with simply doing what works. If thats the case then I guess thats why some people have trouble when something new is thrown at them. As far as I can tell the game gives you every opportunity to learn it's mechanics regardless of how you choose to play.

    Mutilate on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    Then I must have played a different game 1-80 than you did. The only thing you don't get to see is group dynamics. Even then with BC introducing those group designed quests you almost had to group at one point or the other.

    Also what do you mean "primary attack?" You mean auto attack? I am not aware that any class has a primary attack. No I am not trying to be a goose. I just am not following what you mean.

    Sinister Strike, Fireball, whatever. In very few cases you have to do anything but to run up to a mob and start spamming away. Heck, with casters, you can skip the whole "run up to a mob" bit.

    I never played that way. I always used any and all tools available to me. I wanted to be creative and try different things, but thats my style. I guess for some people they are content with simply doing what works. If thats the case then I guess thats why some people have trouble when something new is thrown at them. As far as I can tell the game gives you every opportunity to learn it's mechanics regardless of how you choose to play.

    It doesn't. The game never challenges you during leveling content. You never need to try anything but "run up the mob, 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 loot".

    reVerse on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    To be completely honest, this whole discussion about Oculus, Malygos, or any other fight for that matter in the vast majority of cases boils down to effective leading by your raid leader or in the case of something like Oculus somebody in the group.

    Take the whole player base of WoW, give me 4 random people or 24 random people who have level 80 characters, and give me 5 minutes and I can have that group succeed at Eregos or Malygos with no problems. Why? Because I am a good communicator and I explain things in an easy to understand manner, without regard of whether I think it's easy or not.

    My point is this is a game mostly played in groups, and having groups fail on things like Malygos phase 3 more often than not comes down to either:

    1) A bad communicator leading the raid.

    2) A raid leader who doesn't have the respect of his/her raiders so that they don't really listen to what s/he has to say.

    Joshmvii on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Mutilate wrote: »
    shadowane wrote: »
    You are wrong. If you don't do any dungeons while leveling to 80 you learn very little about the game.

    No. Leveling 1-80 through just quests will still show you the same game mechanics that leveling in dungeons will.

    Like hell it will. You can go through 1-80 just by spamming your primary attack.

    Then I must have played a different game 1-80 than you did. The only thing you don't get to see is group dynamics. Even then with BC introducing those group designed quests you almost had to group at one point or the other.

    Also what do you mean "primary attack?" You mean auto attack? I am not aware that any class has a primary attack. No I am not trying to be a goose. I just am not following what you mean.

    Sinister Strike, Fireball, whatever. In very few cases you have to do anything but to run up to a mob and start spamming away. Heck, with casters, you can skip the whole "run up to a mob" bit.

    I never played that way. I always used any and all tools available to me. I wanted to be creative and try different things, but thats my style. I guess for some people they are content with simply doing what works. If thats the case then I guess thats why some people have trouble when something new is thrown at them. As far as I can tell the game gives you every opportunity to learn it's mechanics regardless of how you choose to play.

    It doesn't. The game never challenges you during leveling content. You never need to try anything but "run up the mob, 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 loot".

    In an instance any DPS class can do the same thing. And, alot of them do. At the end of the day you and I simply disagree on this and thats a-okay with me.

    Mutilate on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User
    edited May 2010
    While I believe by 80 you 'should' know how to play your class and what your spells do, I'm still not surprised when I hear people asking what stat they should go for, gems to pick out or enchants to get.

    I'm not surprised when I see that Ret paladin stacking Armor Pen (using this ex. as I play a pally, there are others I've noticed too).

    Expecting someone to know game mechanics without being told, especially on a boss encounter, is like expecting the weather in New England to remain consistent. It's just not going to happen.

    mturalon on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, the game gives you the opportunity to use all your abilities insofar as it does not prevent you from using them all, but it also doesn't challenge solo players in such a way that they need to. For instance, there are no solo quests where you have to fight a guy who will live for 20 seconds and casts a spell that will instantly kill you if you don't interrupt it. That example is not to be taken seriously, because most classes wouldn't be able to stop it and it would be a terrible quest, but I think that's ReVerse's point. The only way you're going to learn all your tools just doing solo content is if you actually care to learn it yourself, though that really is the same for 5 man content too. There are plenty of people who smash one button through dungeons too. =)

    Joshmvii on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    I don't understand that line of thinking Josh. It's like. If someone tells you to pull your pants down before you poop, do you need to practice that? Do most of these people shit their pants because pants pulling requires practice?

    You know what? Nevermind, that seems about right.

    Maybe video games aren't for these people.

    I think from the way you're talking about people you don't have much experience with people who have different learning styles. Some people absolutely have to do something like Malygos hands on to learn how to do it, especially when you combine having to move at certain times with hitting certain buttons, and if they don't understand how energy works they'll be wondering why they can't hit 1 1 2 as fast as they think they should be able to.

    You're right. But, after 1, maybe 2 times, they should be fine. Not 6, 7, or more (a lot more usually).
    Here is a real life example: My wife is a great Holy Paladin, but it took her a long time to get there. She has never specced anything but holy on her character, and she has to practice to learn each new mechanic they add to the game. She is not a fast twitch, analytical video gamer. She is an intelligent person, working on a master's degree, but not everybody has the same skillset.

    I am in no way a twitch gamer, I'm probably the same way your wife is. However it does not take me a long time to analyze information in regards to how it will work. If someone pushed the pedal down on a car, and it accelerated, I could make a safe logical assumption that pressing that to various degrees will accelerate the car. Most people, it seems, have trouble with this concept.

    But I digress, there are many different types of learning, but practicality aside, they can all be applied to learn the mechanic with ease. Auditory and all the mechanical (save social) should have no relative difficulty learning or listening to how the ability works, and seeing it in motion once or twice.
    For example, while the first time I did the argent tournament dailies, about 2 seconds in I realized exactly how I would need to do them to beat the jousting opponents. She probably failed at it for 10 minutes before I explained to her exactly what to do and she was able to do it.

    This is what I don't understand. Did she not pay attention to the whole quest chain before you even have to joust?

    You would be amazed at how many different ways of learning things there are. It doesn't make somebody stupid if they learn differently than you.

    As simple as it sounds when talking about it, Malygos P3 consists of:

    1) Using situational awareness to know when to strafe
    2) Hitting 1 1 2 at the right pace and understanding that you may have to wait to do the 2 if you need to wait on energy.
    3) Actually having a rudimentary understanding of combo points if you're going to use the shield.

    For some people like me and you, reading the tooltips or an overview of p3 of the fight in text is enough and we're good to perform it perfectly. For others, it just isn't that easy.

    I can agree with all this, I was just raging because 8 attempts for a single person is just way too much. Let alone probably about 15 over the course of a few weeks.
    However, I like to think the example you gave of needing 3 weeks on Malygos was an exaggeration. I was leading 25 man PUGs on Malygos about 3 months after Wrath came out on a weekly basis, and while I always made sure I explained it in a very clear, precise, and more importantly, non condescending manner that if you were DPS you were only doing 1 1 2 and healers doing 3 3 3 4 on themselves, and that I would call on vent when it was time to shift left, etc., we one shotted it almost every single week. Even the people who need to see it always did well on that fight.

    It wasn't. :( My group tends to consist of about 6 or so awesome people, and about 4 people that struggle to pull their pants down before the poop.
    Realistically, for shit like Oculus, those dragon guys should give a quick speech about how the abilities should be used, like "Use the temporal rift until you build up power, then unleash your shock lance for maximum damage, and don't forget to stop time when Eregos becomes angry!" If they're going to make you use the dragons, they should've made the whole instance a vehicle thing instead of not using them on a boss until the last guy too, so people had practice other than just accidentally agroing 5 drakes, but that's a different point.

    The biggest problem was there is absolutely no introduction to the vehicles, you're just supposed to "get it." I agree with this and probably would've helped everyone. And then I could've picked up a green drake and went "that's okay, I got this, you do some deepus."
    It has taken a long time for me to learn that other people may be able to read the tooltips on these abilities and understand the words, but not be able to put it all together on their own without some guidance. I am a far better player at WoW, manager at work, and to be completely honest, a better husband now that I have learned to accept these differences in people.

    That seems well and beyond what should be happening though. Your wife is a special case that goes "oh duh" after it's explained to her. For most people, the 5 or so tries without guidance, then the 8 or so after with guidance, and then the 18 shots until they finally learn that "oh shit touching hot stuff is bad." is about the norm.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    LAWL!!: Last night in WSG on my mid 30's disc priest I killed a 4-boxer mage combo with ease. Use my ae fear, and 3 of them run off, kill the 1 left standing then go kill all the others. He was so bad, basically all he did was run his 4 mages over to where a battle was and start blizzarding on all 4 of them. So I just sat at the bottom of their GY by their healing hut, waiting for his 4 mages to jump down then go fear bomb them and kill them. 1 person Horde side keeping 4 people alliance side from doing anything useful made it an easy 3cap for us :D

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User
    edited May 2010
    there's actually a quest in coldara, that becomes a daily quest there, to take control of a drake that has all the abilities you see in Oculus or in EoE.

    or is stop time not one of them?

    mturalon on
  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    What part of reading two tooltips and figuring out that one spell damages an enemy and gives you health and the other takes your health and gives it to your target is hard to understand. It should not take someone to explain to you to use the damage to life spell on the big dragon and then use the health/health on the target being hit. Am I really asking for too much?
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Yeah, the game gives you the opportunity to use all your abilities insofar as it does not prevent you from using them all, but it also doesn't challenge solo players in such a way that they need to. For instance, there are no solo quests where you have to fight a guy who will live for 20 seconds and casts a spell that will instantly kill you if you don't interrupt it. That example is not to be taken seriously, because most classes wouldn't be able to stop it and it would be a terrible quest, but I think that's ReVerse's point. The only way you're going to learn all your tools just doing solo content is if you actually care to learn it yourself, though that really is the same for 5 man content too. There are plenty of people who smash one button through dungeons too. =)

    There are mobs that cast spells outside of instances and some classes have interupts. What is stopping a player outside of an instance from interupting any spell? It should not be a matter of life and death, nor should it be a matter of "well we are in a situation where you have to use this ability" in order for a player to actually use the ability. The game does not have to actually give a player all possible scenarios that would cover a spell usage in order to give the player the opportunity to use it. I just don't buy that logic at all. Maybe I am crazy. /shrug.

    Mutilate on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mturalon wrote: »
    there's actually a quest in coldara, that becomes a daily quest there, to take control of a drake that has all the abilities you see in Oculus or in EoE.

    or is stop time not one of them?

    The quest you are thinking of is Aces High, and it only matches the drakes from Maly. The Occ drakes are unique to that instance.

    Nobody on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    What part of reading two tooltips and figuring out that one spell damages an enemy and gives you health and the other takes your health and gives it to your target is hard to understand. It should not take someone to explain to you to use the damage to life spell on the big dragon and then use the health/health on the target being hit. Am I really asking for too much?

    You assume people read tooltips. How cute.

    reVerse on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Nobody wrote: »
    mturalon wrote: »
    there's actually a quest in coldara, that becomes a daily quest there, to take control of a drake that has all the abilities you see in Oculus or in EoE.

    or is stop time not one of them?

    The quest you are thinking of is Aces High, and it only matches the drakes from Maly. The Occ drakes are unique to that instance.

    Ah yes. that's what I was thinking of.

    mturalon on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    mturalon wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    mturalon wrote: »
    there's actually a quest in coldara, that becomes a daily quest there, to take control of a drake that has all the abilities you see in Oculus or in EoE.

    or is stop time not one of them?

    The quest you are thinking of is Aces High, and it only matches the drakes from Maly. The Occ drakes are unique to that instance.

    Ah yes. that's what I was thinking of.

    And it's terrible for learning maly phase 3 other than using your shield. Though you won't always have to do that even.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    What part of reading two tooltips and figuring out that one spell damages an enemy and gives you health and the other takes your health and gives it to your target is hard to understand. It should not take someone to explain to you to use the damage to life spell on the big dragon and then use the health/health on the target being hit. Am I really asking for too much?
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    Yeah, the game gives you the opportunity to use all your abilities insofar as it does not prevent you from using them all, but it also doesn't challenge solo players in such a way that they need to. For instance, there are no solo quests where you have to fight a guy who will live for 20 seconds and casts a spell that will instantly kill you if you don't interrupt it. That example is not to be taken seriously, because most classes wouldn't be able to stop it and it would be a terrible quest, but I think that's ReVerse's point. The only way you're going to learn all your tools just doing solo content is if you actually care to learn it yourself, though that really is the same for 5 man content too. There are plenty of people who smash one button through dungeons too. =)

    There are mobs that cast spells outside of instances and some classes have interupts. What is stopping a player outside of an instance from interupting any spell? It should not be a matter of life and death, nor should it be a matter of "well we are in a situation where you have to use this ability" in order for a player to actually use the ability. The game does not have to actually give a player all possible scenarios that would cover a spell usage in order to give the player the opportunity to use it. I just don't buy that logic at all. Maybe I am crazy. /shrug.

    Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just a fact that people levelling up on average just stick to the lowest common denominator. I'm like you're describing yourself, in that every time I get a new ability I'm trying to figure out new ways to use them, to make combos so to speak. =) I put every ability that has a practical use to use while I'm levelling. That's just not what the average player does, hence why you have rogues and shamans that don't even realize how to interrupt, or understand the concept of them being off the GCD so they don't have to lose damage to do so, etc.

    I think in a perfect world every time you trained a new ability the game would make you watch a cheesy video like in Bioshock when you get a new plasmid. "It's interrupt time! Boss using a pesky spell! Hit kick for maximum karate action, and your tank will love you!"

    =)

    Joshmvii on
  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    There are mobs that cast spells outside of instances and some classes have interupts. What is stopping a player outside of an instance from interupting any spell? It should not be a matter of life and death, nor should it be a matter of "well we are in a situation where you have to use this ability" in order for a player to actually use the ability. The game does not have to actually give a player all possible scenarios that would cover a spell usage in order to give the player the opportunity to use it. I just don't buy that logic at all. Maybe I am crazy. /shrug.

    But the situation is that tons of people play that way. Another example is spellsteal on mages. Since my girlfriend got this ability, she was trying to steal stuff all the time, just to see if she could get an interesting or even funny buff. And on the other hand you have people that don't use it ever, just because it's not direct damage.

    I think some people aren't interested in playing "creatively", they like their playstyle to be almost ritual. And if they got into a specific habit it's hard for them to break it. In that regard Blizzard has made some mistakes in designing the leveling process. Some classes change a lot by getting specific talents or abilities and by then it's too late for some people.

    Grobian on
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  • MutilateMutilate Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You guys are right in that it's a different mentality. Honestly some people probably don't even care to understand or to make the connections. That's okay. It's frustrating when it ends up wasting your time. Ya know?

    Mutilate on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Mutilate wrote: »
    You guys are right in that it's a different mentality. Honestly some people probably don't even care to understand or to make the connections. That's okay. It's frustrating when it ends up wasting your time. Ya know?

    Oh yes, indeed. There is not a lot more frustrating than wiping over and over on a raid boss because people aren't taking it seriously. The problem is usually that most of us want to be in a raid guild that is serious enough to down the content and not waste your time, but not hardcore where you raid 4 or 5 nights a week and it's bleeding edge. So when you get in that middle ground where your raid leaders are fine with a couple people slacking off and it's okay to wipe a bunch because it was just 'a bad night,' then it's very frustrating.

    Joshmvii on
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