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A Can of Worms Colored Tiger and Vista
aeiouandsometimesy
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While it seems to be a bad idea (upon second glance), a certain question has been tickling the back of my brain for the past few months. It arose as Microsoft released Vista for beta testing and, more recently, to the public.
As reviews began to appear and people's opinions became clear (violently so, at times), it became clear that the issue of OS X and Vista was highly polarized (or perhaps it is the case of a few voices magnified). Either you hated it (Vista) and were now a solid Mac convert (indeed, that you had been a front-line soldier in the on-going battle between OS's) or that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Or mayhap your beliefs and trust in your current OS had been flagging, and the release of Vista was now a turning point, and caused a conversion or a bolstering of belief. Whatever the case, comments and forums across the inter-web have been raging about this debate.
Regardless, my question desires not to start a flamewar, but addresses the cause:
Why do people so vehemently oppose the OS they currently do not use? Can we not simply be objective and admit that both have their merits and we are free to choose between the two?
As reviews began to appear and people's opinions became clear (violently so, at times), it became clear that the issue of OS X and Vista was highly polarized (or perhaps it is the case of a few voices magnified). Either you hated it (Vista) and were now a solid Mac convert (indeed, that you had been a front-line soldier in the on-going battle between OS's) or that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Or mayhap your beliefs and trust in your current OS had been flagging, and the release of Vista was now a turning point, and caused a conversion or a bolstering of belief. Whatever the case, comments and forums across the inter-web have been raging about this debate.
Regardless, my question desires not to start a flamewar, but addresses the cause:
Why do people so vehemently oppose the OS they currently do not use? Can we not simply be objective and admit that both have their merits and we are free to choose between the two?
aeiouandsometimesy on
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Being on Windows generates no excitement for me, and the methodology slows me down.
Also: the people who shout loudest for Windows, 9 times out of 10, have never even used Mac OS X, let alone tried it for over a week. How can you deride something you have never tried?
This is why people cheer for sports teams, no rational reason to go for one or the other.
I think...
Yeah, you pretty much answered the question perfectly.
But personally speaking? I'm more the objective person, I tend to agree that both OSes have their own pros and cons and are usually geared towards different demographics, I just really really hate people who scream that the one that they use is the best.
It may be just experience, but I really hate people who back up Apple just because its chic and cool; and I really hate the new Apple ads. But, I also know people who really talk through what makes the OS great.
I guess it's up to the person and his/her sense of objectivity.
And because Mac users are dirty hippies! Ya hear me! Hippies!
1.) I don't like candy coating
2.) I don't like the ads (and they say Sony is arrogant)
3.) The hardware is overpriced compared to self-building a PC
4.) The hardware is only manufactured by Apple
5.) The Mac is shit for gaming
6.) I fear what I don't understand.
Not exactly in that order, but you get the idea.
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Ultimately I will have my mac work/coding laptop, my windows gaming rig, and my linux file server/myth tv box all working together, and it will be glorious.
Mind you, this is just a general point as to why some people are vehemently opposed to competitive brands and products other than what they already own and probably doesn't specifically apply to the debate presented in the OP, but I figured I'd say it anyway because it is a question that comes up in many similar debates.
I would relate to this debate, though, with the following thought: that while I do agree that competition is important, I also believe very strongly in standardization particularly in the PC market (something it has gone too long without), and I think it is best if everyone has a similar/compatible OS because it would allow developers more time to focus on the quality of their product or software (or, even, hardware), than on compatibility concerns. Thus, I would prefer everyone get Vista, because I personally like Vista, and would rather see Vista permeate and become standard.
*Keep in mind, I'm really just speaking generally. I don't really know much about OS X.
It's not that bad right now. Most applications use common file types, which are widely supported, so if I have to e-mail you a document or image or spreadsheet, odds are you'll be able to view it no matter which OS we're using.
It would be nice if they all used the same file system, though. This would make dual booting/sharing data on a dual boot system much easier.
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I could see myself with a mac laptop maybe, but since I am at heart a gamer, I can't see myself with a OS X primary computer, unless of course the market changes.
As far as actual impressions of OS X I must say it was awful. Admittedly I was using my friend's highly personalized macbook or ibook, whatever they call them, but it took a few uses before I could even figure out how to open safari. And, while this may be mostly because of how I am not used to laptops, I felt like I was using controlls meant for a gorilla while checking my email. No scroll wheel? Only one mouse button? A bunch of alien keyboard shortcuts? Our whole trip out west I only used the thing to check and send email because it was too infuriating to use any longer. I wanted to keep up on news and webcomics and message boards but it made me want to toss it out the window. But again, this might just be my general distaste for all laptops. I honestly don't know anyone running OS X on a desktop, so that's all I've seen.
Okay so this is demonstrating the psychological investment argument for the crowd.
Which is essentially what it is in most cases.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
My beta experiences with Office 2007 and Vista have been amazing, and tools like XNA and (laguage) Express are fabulous for budding developers.
I hate OSX for a few reasons:
1. Games. Games Games Games.
2. I don't care about sharing my photos and my feelings
3. Macs = ovepriced. I would rather save myself a couple hundred and build my own PC, and have fun while doing it.
4. Applications. Tons of shit only runs on Windows, although I admit it is getting more diverse these days.
5. My PC is a beast, I love my overclocked E6600 and my 8800GTX, I could never have that with a mac.
I can understand why someone who doesn't game might want a Mac, but a PC can always do anything a Mac can, except for the very few Apple only products like iLife which is pretty lame anyways, at least in my experience. And the PC can do it for cheaper, and with more Options.
See, this is the part I don't get. What makes you want to evangelize Macs? I understand that you like using them, but what makes you want to tell other people to use them? Is it just so good that it compels you to spread the word? I could understand if you were a Mac salesperson, because it would be your job, but I don't get what drives you to do things like correct other people's misconceptions when you don't really have a stake in wether or not Apple succeeds.
I'd also like to know why whether or not an OS generates excitement is a criteria for using it. This is not me being snarky, this is an actual question. Why does using a Mac generate excitement for you?
I would agree with those five reasons wholeheartedly. I used to use macs exclusively up until OS X and honestly when I switched to XP I just felt like I had so much more control over my system. When I look back, I tend to feel like Apple's OS kept me down in an oppressive fascist regime.
This may go against everything that Mac promotes itself as, but I feel so much more liberated on my XP. Then again, it's been at least a couple months since I've touched an OS X computer and I sure as hell wouldn't mind someone gifting me a mac book.
Edit: I should say that it was a rather pretty fascist regime.
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I never said they were good reasons.
Edit: They are, though.
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Windows has it's uses, but OS X is generally better.
[spoiler:dc7631282a]Linux[/spoiler:dc7631282a]
Frankly, as an OS, I think OSX is just better. The visual experience is better, the UI more consistent, the functionality just more intuitive (the lack of a Windows-like cut command is fucking maddening, though). But I love my Windows desktop. I've been using Windows since 3.0, and I'm very familiar with it. I know the ins and outs. I know how to troubleshoot. I know how to tweak performance. It lets me play games.
The real debate, it seems, isn't between OSX and Vista, but between XP and Vista. Vista is, basically, a resource-hog reskin of XP with alpha transparency and DRM. Yeah that will convince me to upgrade.
If that doesn't this will
Along with the computer you also get a lisenced copy of an OS, and I think (I could be wrong here) The equivalent of Microsoft office.
Those two items together for a PC adds up fairly quickly.
Satans..... hints.....
At home I run windows. I could boot into linux but I haven't for a while and I have no burning urge to do so. Windows is simply better for gaming which is really the point of my PC at home.
My wife has a mac at home for work, and honestly I never touch it. I simply can't get the hardware I want for it, or the performance I want out of it. So it's useless for me, even if it had windows on it I wouldn't use it.
My wife uses it for her work, but does everything else on her XP laptop.
I don't see vista as a PC vs Mac issue. Even if you don't like vista there is no reason to move to OSX because you can run linux or xp.
I have to say that the more I use either OS the more I dislike the problems. Inherent in it, it's frustrating. However with a PC I can at least avoid any problems in the platform, with a Mac you don't have nearly enough flexibility in that area.
Source please?
That's not to say that people do prefer Vista over Tiger (and possibly will prefer it over Leopard), and that's definitely not saying that there are reviews out there that explicitly say as much.
Hold down command.
I don't game with a computer anymore, so I'm not brought down by not having access to the entire library of Windows games. I'm not using most of the software that apple shipped with my Macbook either.
I can't tweak the system as well as I could a Windows machine... but thats because I've had OSX for a few weeks, whereas I've been on Windows in one form or another for half my life.
If for some reason I need to use Windows, I'll just fire up in VMplayer. I could use Boot Camp, but I find a virtual Windows to be easier to deal with.
if you play games, and one of the main points of a computer to you is to play video games, then admit it -- you're not partial to an OS. You're OS agnostic. You will select whichever OS has the most/best games, regardless of which OS that is. It's no different than a gamer who owns multiple consoles in order to play the best games.
If, as a pure hypothetical, Microsoft declared that it was completely removing all gaming capabilities from Windows in order to push the Xbox, and Apple said "Come on in developers, the water's fine," *all* of you who claim games are the reason you use Windows would jump ship.
Games is a secondary argument. It's not a specific platform argument, as games ignore essentially every element of an OS and simply run (or don't). True?
Most of the complaints against any OS that deal with actual elements of the operating system, though, are often based on first impressions and how it's "different," rather than anything objective. People get mad at Linux because the slashes for directories are "backwards," or get frustrated with OS X because it doesn't function in a "fullscreen/minimized" dichotomy.
For me, I use computers to deal with a lot of music. I don't have a lot of time to spend dicking around with settings and configurations and installing drivers and figuring out why something isn't working. Anyone who has dealt with trying to get ASIO set up and working on a system that you use for a lot of things over a long period of time knows what I'm talking about, and how Windows is essentially blind to the fact that data is data, and should recognize where and how things can be moved and used inside the OS.
For instance, the taskbar at the bottom of the screen is what, exactly. Is it a navigation tool, to guide you to applications that are open? If so, it should be trivial to reorganize what's there by clicking and dragging it around. And I should be able to drag files on it to open them on the window that's represented there. When an application is open, I shouldn't be bound by a large gray box that's mostly empty yet which limits me to move open windows around only inside that gray box.
But with anything, the argument is useless if it simply consists of opinions based on those with no interest to change. If someone has never had any compelling reason to stray from what they're used to, why would they approach something different with anything but skepticism and a natural predisposition to dislike it? It's just like foreign foods -- most people are really leery of eating something they've never eaten before.
BUT! Some people love trying new things, or are bored with what they usually eat. Same with operating systems, applications, whatever -- they're looking for a change and are open to something that doesn't completely conform to their worldview. Unless you're in that mindset, it's useless to evaluate a different OS.
People who use OS X don't care that a Windows user isn't used to the apple key. And I say this as someone who still runs Windows on a laptop, for the occasional times I want to use it, yet still have it far more customized than most Windows installs (no "My Computer" on the Desktop for instance, and things are organized based on "Windows Explorer" view, not spreading from the Desktop). The thing that sold me on OS X was that I never have to spend an hour changing it to make it "not stupid" whenever I have to set up a new OS. I just have to adjust the mouse/keyboard speed and set the desktop and sleep times. I had originally bought a powermac as simply a video/music workstation, with the idea that I'd still use Windows because I was used to it. Over the course of 3 months I gradually shifted over, and really don't think I'm missing anything.
To me, Vista is a missed opportunity. The elements of OS X that make it great, in my opinion, are the inter-connectivity of basically everything. Moving text, files, parts of files, sounds, and more, around inside the OS just works. I found out more about how the OS works by simply, you know, seeing if it worked. I was usually pleasantly surprised, which made it entirely different from Windows, and honestly I've found it to be the biggest mental roadblock to 'switchers'; they're not used to just trying something to see if it works. The classic example is highlighting and dragging text from a webpage. If you're on OS X, you'll see what I mean.
Okay. Prove it.
Really though, PC does everything I want from a computer {media applications and the likes included} that a Mac does, and more. Maybe Macs do some applications better then Windows, but it's nothing I have noticed myself from first hand experience.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
All three (Linux, Windows, OS n) have advantages and disadvantages. Anyone's who's a cockbite and picks one over the other being the "best" needs to learn to learn to utilize each thing to its finest.
On Topic: Vista is Windows. There are some problems, but it feels more streamlined now and isn't a resource whore (at least, to a point). Liking it.
Yes and no. Yes: you can play most games, but more macs won't be able to run AAA titles at near full settings like a Windows PC can. It's the interfacing most of the time, not the actual computer.
Wait, what?
All Boot Camp does is create a Windows partition and gives you Windows drivers to install on an Intel Mac.
Feel free to post an example.
A dell with the same processor, a gig of ram and a 15.4 inch screen will cost you $925.
Not to mention upgrades..
It's pretty clear why some people don't like Macs. I for one use my pc almost completely for gaming. So I clearly do not like Macs because Macs mega fail in that department.
I never asked for this!