Oblivion. The redguard race kind of racist?

GoldAgainstTheSoul

As I was making a fellow in Oblivion i noticed that the "black" race defaults with an AFRO and is described as "the most naturally talented warriors (sports players?!?) in tamriel."

Am I being over sensitive here?

Or is it like having a white race where the default is fat and bald, and they are naturally the best "accountants" or something. Or better yet a default "red skinned" race who are naturally the best "trackers" (native americans.)
Or maybe a "yellow" female who is bad at riding horses and great at maths?

Stereotypes? for sure. Racist? Maybe not. maybe so.

What about the success of playing games like GTA, where you basically trivialize the life of street criminals as an escapist fantasy? (which is basically why rap is so popular)

I know I might be blowing some minds, pissing off some others, and breaking the norm.......but I think the point should be made.

Do games promote racist stereotypes?

I know that a lot of gaming and scifi actually rise above it because african americans, women, ect are usually seen in a role of power, but these things have always bothered me.

Six

You're being too sensitive.

antifood

And you probably own a Zune.

Bibble

In civ 4: warlords all the asian leaders have the protective trait

BECAUSE THE AMERICAN STEREOTYPE OF AN ASIAN LEADER IS QUIET AND MEDITATIVE


RACISM

TroubledTom

It's the kind of racism that will make people mad at you for pointing it out.

Pheezer

okay guys let's be good this time

Remington

My vote goes to "over sensitive."

That's what this thread is asking, right?

TM2 Rampage

randombattle

What about elves? They are always expert mages and archers.

Racist? Or industry standard?

Ninja Bot

The Dekus in Majora's Mask were racist because they were very mean to the monkeys and would not let me into the palace until I wore the deku mask. I felt so opressed that I just had to complain about it on the internet .

Dareth Ram

Way, way, way, way too sensitive.

GoldAgainstTheSoul

Remington wrote:

My vote goes to "over sensitive."

That's what this thread is asking, right?

more wondering about the state of games.

Blake T

S.P.E.W.!!!!!

Remington

Some games have racist stereotypes, just like some movies, books and songs do. But I don't really know what you mean by promote racist stereotypes. Like... persuade people of a certain race to act a certain way?

I think you're thinking too hard. This feels like something Jack Thompson should be pretending to worry about.

UnKnown Soldier

randombattle

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

Remington wrote:

My vote goes to "over sensitive."

That's what this thread is asking, right?

more wondering about the state of games.

If you are asking if things like this promotes racism then the answer is no. Plain and simple. People promote racism not races in video games.


Its people going "Gee is ____ racist?" that promotes racism and reminds people of it. If every single person never mentioned anything racist then there would be no racism.

Cilla Black

Racism is all about thinking one or more race is completely inferior. That is not the case in Oblivion. Each race has differences, yes, but none of them are inferior. All of them can be more than powerful enough to get through the game as anything. You want to play a Redguard Mage? Awesome, you'll be able to kick some ass. Just like everyone else as anything else.

The differences between the races are inconsequential. The important point is they can all excel at anything and choice is up to the player. There is no racism in the game. You really are looking way too much into it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Remington

Everyone's a little bit racist.



.... :whistle:

UnKnown Soldier

randombattle wrote:

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

Remington wrote:

My vote goes to "over sensitive."

That's what this thread is asking, right?

more wondering about the state of games.

If you are asking if things like this promotes racism then the answer is no. Plain and simple. People promote racism not races in video games.


Its people going "Gee is ____ racist?" that promotes racism and reminds people of it. If every single person never mentioned anything racist then there would be no racism.

Seriously. If everyone stopped talking about racism and how big of a problem it is it would eventually die out.

Remington

I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, some people are genuinely racist, and not just because people talk about it.

Now, if everyone stopped talking about how certain things in certain circumstances MIGHT be racist... well.. that'd definetely help matters.

GoldAgainstTheSoul

Zilla84 wrote:

Racism is all about thinking one or more race is completely inferior. That is not the case in Oblivion. Each race has differences, yes, but none of them are inferior. All of them can be more than powerful enough to get through the game as anything. You want to play a Redguard Mage? Awesome, you'll be able to kick some ass. Just like everyone else as anything else.

The differences between the races are inconsequential. The important point is they can all excel at anything and choice is up to the player. There is no racism in the game. You really are looking way too much into it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

to a point you're right. it doesn't promote the idea that one race is better. but it does promote stereotypes which are often used in a negative or prejudicial sense and are frequently used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors. If you're constantly surrounded by stereotypes you begin to think they are true and thus judge people based on those stereotypes.


It's not just about seeing a cigar as a cigar but how cigars are sold to us.

Cilla Black

Except for those Argonians. All muddying up our towns with their scales and eyes. Fucking scalies.

Remington

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

Zilla84 wrote:

Racism is all about thinking one or more race is completely inferior. That is not the case in Oblivion. Each race has differences, yes, but none of them are inferior. All of them can be more than powerful enough to get through the game as anything. You want to play a Redguard Mage? Awesome, you'll be able to kick some ass. Just like everyone else as anything else.

The differences between the races are inconsequential. The important point is they can all excel at anything and choice is up to the player. There is no racism in the game. You really are looking way too much into it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

to a point you're right. it doesn't promote the idea that one race is better. but it does promote stereotypes which are often used in a negative or prejudicial sense and are frequently used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors. If you're constantly surrounded by stereotypes you begin to think they are true and thus judge people based on those stereotypes.


It's not just about seeing a cigar as a cigar but how cigars are sold to us.

I think you're just looking for a reason to debate things.

randombattle

Remington wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, some people are genuinely racist, and not just because people talk about it.

Now, if everyone stopped talking about how certain things in certain circumstances MIGHT be racist... well.. that'd definetely help matters.

Duh no shit. If those people didn't talk about it and no one else did it wouldn't be around. That simple.

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

GoldAgainstTheSoul

I think the more you ignore and try to pretend the stereotypes don't exist the more likely you are to act on them or not know about them in the first place.

to be nonracist you really have to be proactive as its part of our culture.

and obviously some of you have never lived in the south.

Remington

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, some people are genuinely racist, and not just because people talk about it.

Now, if everyone stopped talking about how certain things in certain circumstances MIGHT be racist... well.. that'd definetely help matters.

Duh no shit. If those people didn't talk about it and no one else did it wouldn't be around. That simple.

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

Look who's saying "no shit."

"If people stopped being racist, then there'd be no more racism!"

Orikaeshigitae

Actually, if you look closely in the hub gardens, there are redguard-only drinking fountains.

Superunknown

So we can either talk about stereotypes and be a racist over sensitive douche-bag, or ignore them and still be racist even though we don't mention them or take note of them.

So basically you can't win.

GoldAgainstTheSoul

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

racist beliefs are a creation of the human mind. the existence of racism is real. I think .....kind of when all that krahmer stuff went down.... paul mooney mentioned little white and asian kids throwing around the "n word". he really does have a point that people think some kinds of racism are "ok" now because there is this preception everybody is doing "alright."

it might be a back eddie of the "republican revolution" that is slowly dying out but it's surely there.

Talous

What do you think of the two 'white races' in TES?

Seems to me that stat differences are derived from regional and cultural reasoning. Inborn physical characteristics have less to do with it. I could be wrong.

Superunknown

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

racist beliefs are a creation of the human mind. the existence of racism is real. I think .....kind of when all that krahmer stuff went down.... paul mooney mentioned little white and asian kids throwing around the "n word". he really does have a point that people think some kinds of racism are "ok" now because everybody is doing alright.

it might be a back eddie of the "republican revolution" that is slowly dying out but it's surely there.

We're not debating if racism exists, we're debating if racism exsist in this tiny little insignificant example of yours.

chaossoldier

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

I think the more you ignore and try to pretend the stereotypes don't exist the more likely you are to act on them or not know about them in the first place.

to be nonracist you really have to be proactive as its part of our culture.

and obviously some of you have never lived in the south.

Isn't it kind of a good thing to not know about Stereotypes, so you're therefore less likely to point them out?

Out of curiosity, what brought on this this question about the Redguards? Was it just the fact that you saw the color of their skin and said "Oh, they're in a video game. There must be racism involved!" or have you actually played the Elder Scroll games that involve the race?

Remington

Superunknown wrote:

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

racist beliefs are a creation of the human mind. the existence of racism is real. I think .....kind of when all that krahmer stuff went down.... paul mooney mentioned little white and asian kids throwing around the "n word". he really does have a point that people think some kinds of racism are "ok" now because everybody is doing alright.

it might be a back eddie of the "republican revolution" that is slowly dying out but it's surely there.

We're not debating if racism exists, we're debating if racism exsist in this tiny little insignificant example of yours.

Also, I didn't say that.

I wouldn't say that.

randombattle

Remington wrote:

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, some people are genuinely racist, and not just because people talk about it.

Now, if everyone stopped talking about how certain things in certain circumstances MIGHT be racist... well.. that'd definetely help matters.

Duh no shit. If those people didn't talk about it and no one else did it wouldn't be around. That simple.

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

Look who's saying "no shit."

"If people stopped being racist, then there'd be no more racism!"

And?

It isn't a complicated idea.

GoldAgainstTheSoul

chaossoldier wrote:

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

I think the more you ignore and try to pretend the stereotypes don't exist the more likely you are to act on them or not know about them in the first place.

to be nonracist you really have to be proactive as its part of our culture.

and obviously some of you have never lived in the south.

Isn't it kind of a good thing to not know about Stereotypes, so you're therefore less likely to point them out?

Out of curiosity, what brought on this this question about the Redguards? Was it just the fact that you saw the color of their skin and said "Oh, they're in a video game. There must be racism involved!" or have you actually played the Elder Scroll games that involve the race?

did you read the first thread?
check the part about how they look as default and how they are described.

Orikaeshigitae

If you type in the code >chrlsbrkly a book drops in your inventory entitled 'Who's afraid of a big red man?'

When read, it's a collection of interviews about racism with prominent TES figures. It's really very provocative, much like the original.

chaossoldier

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

chaossoldier wrote:

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

I think the more you ignore and try to pretend the stereotypes don't exist the more likely you are to act on them or not know about them in the first place.

to be nonracist you really have to be proactive as its part of our culture.

and obviously some of you have never lived in the south.

Isn't it kind of a good thing to not know about Stereotypes, so you're therefore less likely to point them out?

Out of curiosity, what brought on this this question about the Redguards? Was it just the fact that you saw the color of their skin and said "Oh, they're in a video game. There must be racism involved!" or have you actually played the Elder Scroll games that involve the race?

did you read the first thread?
check the part about how they look as default and how they are described.

Well, that only tells me you did nothing but read a description and said "RACISM!" at nothing. The fact that you have not interacted with any of the actual Redguard NPC characters in the game tell me that you're calling foul on a very very retarded assumption on a very small description.

MechMantis

Zilla84 wrote:

Except for those Argonians. All muddying up our towns with their scales and eyes. Fucking scalies.

I'll get a picture of Sklatha to show you that you can get some awesome coloration on Argonians, not just muddy browns and greens.


Red and black with glowing red eyes=Win. Especially with a Dark Brotherhood member.



EDIT: Oh, and the above quote is an example of in-game racism. Ever play Morrowind? I wanted to stab every Telvanni that had a slave, because they thought that they could force another fully sentient race to do their bidding. When Argonians are stat-wise just as good as Dunmer in the magic arts and are better at weapons to boot.

On another note, it was great fun playing an Argonian Telvanni. There were no more councilors post-end of quest line.

HarshLanguage

OP, some things are just coincidences. You're taking one very minor description in a game and building paragraphs of conjecture on it. That's bad news if you're trying to make a serious point.

Here's something interesting, though: the latest Guild Wars expansion, Nightfall, is based loosely on African (and some Middle Eastern) cultures and themes. One side effect of that, which I think is admirable but also has gone largely unnoticed, is that it's the only game I can think of where almost all the NPCs would be categorized as "black." To me that's a pretty momentous accomplishment.

But I'm not sure if the lack of attention it's received is good or bad. It's not like a TV show where any cast with two or more non-white characters is loudly lauded as being "diverse." It seems Arena Net deserves some credit. But yet, if we want to move beyond putting primary importance on race, the skin colors of the NPCs in a game shouldn't matter one way or another, should they?

GoldAgainstTheSoul

Superunknown wrote:

GoldAgainstTheSoul wrote:

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

racist beliefs are a creation of the human mind. the existence of racism is real. I think .....kind of when all that krahmer stuff went down.... paul mooney mentioned little white and asian kids throwing around the "n word". he really does have a point that people think some kinds of racism are "ok" now because everybody is doing alright.

it might be a back eddie of the "republican revolution" that is slowly dying out but it's surely there.

We're not debating if racism exists, we're debating if racism exsist in this tiny little insignificant example of yours.

i was reframing his statement so it made more sense.

how is any form of racism insignificant? especially if it's your race on the block?


also, if it were as simple as just "stopping" the racism the civil-rights movement wouldn't have caused so much pain and death. there are norms that exist based on these stereotypes and when people try to change them there is resistance. if you don't try to change things now nothing ever gets changed.


it's also interesting to see that a lot of people posting are going out of their way to say that "it's not a big deal."

Remington

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

randombattle wrote:

Remington wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with that. I mean, some people are genuinely racist, and not just because people talk about it.

Now, if everyone stopped talking about how certain things in certain circumstances MIGHT be racist... well.. that'd definetely help matters.

Duh no shit. If those people didn't talk about it and no one else did it wouldn't be around. That simple.

Racism is a creation of the human mind not an innate nature of life.

Look who's saying "no shit."

"If people stopped being racist, then there'd be no more racism!"

And?

It isn't a complicated idea.

I didn't say I disagree, I just get angry when someone misinterprets what I write, replies with "duh no shit," writes something ridiculously obvious and then uses it as an argument against something they obviously agree with.