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[Low-Carb Diets]: Now with awesome recipes on the first page!

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Posts

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Scalfin wrote: »
    If low-carb diets are so much better, then why does all the research show that low-carb (Atkins, specifically) and low-fat diets have roughly the same rate of weight loss and Atkins is only slightly better for retention?

    There's an obvious caveat that telling people that saturated fats are bad for them caused them to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (butter w/ margarine), which we later found were even worse.

    You're thinking of of trans-fats, not unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats are still better for you. Regular butter is basically all saturated fat while margarine is mostly unsaturated fat and a tiny bit of trans fat. I have not found any study that concluded that margarine is worse for you than butter.

    As for the Atkins diet, my mom went on it and had success.

    RandomEngy on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    (Also, fiber is pretty important for your digestive tract. All things equal, if I take in insufficient fiber I get constipated something awful.)

    This is because you're reliant on fiber for intestinal motility. You could probably wean yourself off of it, although with increasing age the likelihood of this being done decreases. If your intestines are not used to eatings tons of fiber, then you don't need it. Constipation is definitely not an issue.

    The only important type of fiber is soluble fiber, because it's one of the things your gut flora eats. And a good diet of fruits and veggies takes care of that.

    And in the only controlled study that I'm aware of that examined the health effects of just an increase in wheat bran in the diet, all cause mortality increased.

    geckahn on
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    I am a proponent of Calories in < Calories out = weight loss (cico=wl) school of thought but I understand where the Taubes school is coming from. I'll try and lay it out here and see if we can get a quorum going.

    The Taubes school preaches that what you eat is vitally important to how much you eat. This is very true: and a key component in someone changing losing weight is cghanging their diet . But, for me, in the rush to explain this very important fact they seem to slip past the truth that ultimately it's about how much you eat. Yes the body is a feedback system but the second law of thermodynamics still holds, and that's why cico=wl get seemingly pissed off with Taubes teachings. If someone eats more than they burn then they will put on weight, it doesn't matter if that comes from a high fat or low fat diet.

    I think that's the two truths that need to be respected by both sides, in fact, there isn't really two sides: to lose weight you must consume less calories than you burn, the best way to do this is to alter your diet.

    I already answered this:
    Also, people on low-carb diets can typically eat shitloads of food without gaining weight, because their body literally doesn't have the means of storing the excess energy as fat (insulin). So it does the only alternative: it burns those calories by up-regulating the metabolism.

    You literally cannot think of this in terms of calories in versus calories out because calories out as a variable depends on calories in.

    Since human bodies are not designed to excrete nutrients, and since lack of insulin means you can't store them as fat, the only way to get rid of excess food is to up-regulate the metabolism and burn it. Which is indeed what happens.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    If low-carb diets are so much better, then why does all the research show that low-carb (Atkins, specifically) and low-fat diets have roughly the same rate of weight loss and Atkins is only slightly better for retention?

    There's an obvious caveat that telling people that saturated fats are bad for them caused them to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (butter w/ margarine), which we later found were even worse.

    You're thinking of of trans-fats, not unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats are still better for you. Regular butter is basically all saturated fat while margarine is mostly unsaturated fat and a tiny bit of trans fat. I have not found any study that concluded that margarine is worse for you than butter.

    As for the Atkins diet, my mom went on it and had success.


    for fats, the basic deal is:

    - avoid omega 6 fats (Linoleic Acid). This is a poly unsaturated fat, just like omega 3. most cooking oils that are derived from plants have high levels of linoleic acid. Basically if it wasn't cold pressed (olive oil, coconut oil) or isnt animal derived (butter, lard, tallow) then don't use it. Also, commercially raised meat has higher levels of omega 6 and lower levels of omega 3 then pastured. Same applies to the butter that comes from them.
    - avoid trans fat.


    - Saturated fats are fine, not dangerous. Mono-unsaturated fats are fine.
    - get more omega 3's. Whats most important though is your ratio of omega 6 : omega 3 as this controls your systematic inflammation levels and how your body heals itself. This is important for virtually every aspect of health, and has a huge impact on heart disease and aging. The lower the ratio, the better. But absolute amounts matter too, so just taking tons of omega 3 wont cut it to make up for too much omega 6.

    geckahn on
  • VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cervetus wrote: »
    Vegetables are low calorie, high in nutrition, and filling. I think if people just made a concerted effort to eat an appropriate amount of them a fair bit of excess weight and lack of energy could be solved.

    Oh man, this was the key to getting my weight loss started. I started replacing a lot of my food with veggies (mostly broccoli) and that helped immensely. They fill me up, leave me satisfied and the more of them I eat the less I eat of anything else without feeling hungry.

    VisionOfClarity on
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Named diets exist only as marketting. To be healthy, you just have to eat the nutritients your body needs.

    The thing is, different carbs have differing levels of healthiness and nutrition. Just like different fats.

    Simple carbs give you available energy immediately, and if you don't use it all up it then gets stored as body fat. Things like sugar, syrups, processed bread.

    Complex carbs do the same thing, but are harder to digest so the energy isn't as immediate, so it's a longer energy supply. Things like fibrous grains (oats, bran).

    The majority of carbs on the market are simple carbss; and most people only eat simple carbs (even if they have no idea what they are). So cutting out all carbs is almost always effective. And for obese people, it definitely works; and most people who thing they are just a bit pudgey are actually obese by scientific standards.

    Replying to the bolded statement, but also this post in general:

    Your body "needs" an extremely small amount of carbohydrates. And, the fun fact is that your liver is capable of producing this amount. What this means is that you can essentially live on a zero carb diet. How do you think the Eskimos survived all this time? Their diets consist almost entirely of animal fats and protein. The only carbs they eat are during short sub-arctic summers, when certain types of berries can be found growing in the bushes. Even those however are extremely low on carbohydrates.

    Also, to reiterate my point in the OP, Eskimos gain weight only if they start eating the starchy food that they buy from the civilized towns. This happens despite keeping overall calorie intake the same (essentially replacing some of the protein and animal fat with carbs = weight gain!).

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    You know, I'm not sure what to do about my wife on this. Since we massively cut sugar out of our diet our portion sizes have decreased, and we've shifted away from having sugary snacks in the house. Without much work over the last 6 months we dropped into a good BMI range, and each lost at least 2 clothing sizes. The problem is she's a complete sugar addict. If someone at her work brings in donuts or cake or candies or chips (which they all do, note they are all obese too... had to say it) she's hard pressed not to eat it. If you give her access to a dessert she will consume until it is gone. She can't believe I still have half of a chocolate bar sitting on my desk (sealed up) from a month ago.

    I'm not really sure how to counteract it, in the house we just don't keep it, and we've gotten an espresso machine which lowers the number of times anyone goes out for sugary coffee, and honestly she has the ability to bring healthy snacks to work but she just can't seem to resist.

    My only thought at this point is to throw (low sugar/filler) protein bars at her in the hopes of making her too full to snack on anything sugary, but there's got to be a nicer/cleaner/less expensive solution. Especially since she may still crave and eat the sugar even though she's full (which is the case now, at times).

    Mblackwell on
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  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cervetus wrote: »
    Vegetables are low calorie, high in nutrition, and filling. I think if people just made a concerted effort to eat an appropriate amount of them a fair bit of excess weight and lack of energy could be solved.

    Oh man, this was the key to getting my weight loss started. I started replacing a lot of my food with veggies (mostly broccoli) and that helped immensely. They fill me up, leave me satisfied and the more of them I eat the less I eat of anything else without feeling hungry.

    Dietitian told me a long time ago to eat as many veggies as I pleased, with the caveat that you should only eat very small amounts of starchy vegetables (mostly root vegetables). Seems to work fairly well.

    Mblackwell on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The easiest way to stay away from sugar is just to not buy it and have it around. The co-worker issue is definitely harder to deal with, but at some point you just need to prioritize things and develop some will power.

    geckahn on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    geckahn wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    If low-carb diets are so much better, then why does all the research show that low-carb (Atkins, specifically) and low-fat diets have roughly the same rate of weight loss and Atkins is only slightly better for retention?

    There's an obvious caveat that telling people that saturated fats are bad for them caused them to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (butter w/ margarine), which we later found were even worse.

    You're thinking of of trans-fats, not unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats are still better for you. Regular butter is basically all saturated fat while margarine is mostly unsaturated fat and a tiny bit of trans fat. I have not found any study that concluded that margarine is worse for you than butter.

    As for the Atkins diet, my mom went on it and had success.


    for fats, the basic deal is:

    - avoid omega 6 fats (Linoleic Acid). This is a poly unsaturated fat, just like omega 3. most cooking oils that are derived from plants have high levels of linoleic acid. Basically if it wasn't cold pressed (olive oil, coconut oil) or isnt animal derived (butter, lard, tallow) then don't use it. Also, commercially raised meat has higher levels of omega 6 and lower levels of omega 3 then pastured. Same applies to the butter that comes from them.
    - avoid trans fat.


    - Saturated fats are fine, not dangerous. Mono-unsaturated fats are fine.
    - get more omega 3's. Whats most important though is your ratio of omega 6 : omega 3 as this controls your systematic inflammation levels and how your body heals itself. This is important for virtually every aspect of health, and has a huge impact on heart disease and aging. The lower the ratio, the better. But absolute amounts matter too, so just taking tons of omega 3 wont cut it to make up for too much omega 6.

    From what I'm reading, it is in general a healthy move to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats. Also, I've been using Saffola margarine. It's delicious and apparently has a great fat makeup as well:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fatchart.svg

    RandomEngy on
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  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    If low-carb diets are so much better, then why does all the research show that low-carb (Atkins, specifically) and low-fat diets have roughly the same rate of weight loss and Atkins is only slightly better for retention?

    There's an obvious caveat that telling people that saturated fats are bad for them caused them to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats (butter w/ margarine), which we later found were even worse.

    You're thinking of of trans-fats, not unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats are still better for you. Regular butter is basically all saturated fat while margarine is mostly unsaturated fat and a tiny bit of trans fat. I have not found any study that concluded that margarine is worse for you than butter.

    As for the Atkins diet, my mom went on it and had success.


    for fats, the basic deal is:

    - avoid omega 6 fats (Linoleic Acid). This is a poly unsaturated fat, just like omega 3. most cooking oils that are derived from plants have high levels of linoleic acid. Basically if it wasn't cold pressed (olive oil, coconut oil) or isnt animal derived (butter, lard, tallow) then don't use it. Also, commercially raised meat has higher levels of omega 6 and lower levels of omega 3 then pastured. Same applies to the butter that comes from them.
    - avoid trans fat.


    - Saturated fats are fine, not dangerous. Mono-unsaturated fats are fine.
    - get more omega 3's. Whats most important though is your ratio of omega 6 : omega 3 as this controls your systematic inflammation levels and how your body heals itself. This is important for virtually every aspect of health, and has a huge impact on heart disease and aging. The lower the ratio, the better. But absolute amounts matter too, so just taking tons of omega 3 wont cut it to make up for too much omega 6.

    From what I'm reading, it is in general a healthy move to replace saturated fats with unsaturated fats. Also, I've been using Saffola margarine. It's delicious and apparently has a great fat makeup as well:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fatchart.svg

    Not really. It's full of polyunsaturated fats, which, like geckahn says, you need to avoid.

    Also, not sure about replacing saturated with unsaturated. There are some monounsaturated fats that are essential, so you need them. But unsaturated is not any healthier than saturated in general.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    You know, I'm not sure what to do about my wife on this. Since we massively cut sugar out of our diet our portion sizes have decreased, and we've shifted away from having sugary snacks in the house. Without much work over the last 6 months we dropped into a good BMI range, and each lost at least 2 clothing sizes. The problem is she's a complete sugar addict. If someone at her work brings in donuts or cake or candies or chips (which they all do, note they are all obese too... had to say it) she's hard pressed not to eat it. If you give her access to a dessert she will consume until it is gone. She can't believe I still have half of a chocolate bar sitting on my desk (sealed up) from a month ago.

    I'm not really sure how to counteract it, in the house we just don't keep it, and we've gotten an espresso machine which lowers the number of times anyone goes out for sugary coffee, and honestly she has the ability to bring healthy snacks to work but she just can't seem to resist.

    My only thought at this point is to throw (low sugar/filler) protein bars at her in the hopes of making her too full to snack on anything sugary, but there's got to be a nicer/cleaner/less expensive solution. Especially since she may still crave and eat the sugar even though she's full (which is the case now, at times).

    She may need to try changing her mentality regarding sugar. My wife has a similar issue, and finds that if she tries ignoring her desire for sugar, she winds up binging. Instead, if she wants something sweet, she lets herself have a small amount. She wants a candy bar? Fine, she eats a small candy bar. By addressing the urge when it comes up, she meets her body's craving and also defetishizes the sugary stuff to where she's not building it up to be so important.

    If it's just about stuff in your household, it's simple to just not have it around. If your coworkers are bringing in sweets every damned day, though, you need to learn to manage your urges. And if that's the case, avoidance can be counterproductive.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    My department has a monthly budget for food, and guess what always ends up being bought: chocolates, doritos, granola bars, lots of soda and fruit juice, etc. The only healthy thing I am able to sneak into the food list is Almonds.

    When I first started low-carbing, it was pretty hard to see a coworker stuff their mouth with a bar of Twix or Kit-Kat. After a while though, I developed a tactic: whenever I crave sugar, I go and get myself some almonds from the kitchen. It works surprisingly well.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    macadamia nuts are also super delicious.

    geckahn on
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    We have it from time to time, but it's always little things. And I honestly have to monitor her. She'll eat sweets until I tell her to stop (she'll stop when I mention it). She's gotten a lot better, but they'll put a bowl of say Tootsie Rolls out at work and she'll end up eating a good chunk of them rather than just one or two. Something in her brain doesn't tell her to stop ever. It's why I say she's an addict because she basically can't have ANY without having a LOT.

    Mblackwell on
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  • kaleeditykaleedity Sometimes science is more art than science Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, I can see replacing everything dessert-like in my diet with decent nut types.

    kaleedity on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    The problem is that, while you may be able to regulate your body weight with a high-carb diet (even if it consists of complex carbs), you will have extreme difficulty holding other risk factors under control. This is why millions of people have to pay huge amounts of money every year for things like anti-cholesterol and anti-blood pressure medications. They are trying to treat the symptoms of having too much insulin (as a result of too many carbs), rather than treating the root cause itself (reducing carb intake to limit insulin production in the body).

    There exists a balance between "virtually no carbs" and "carbs all over the fucking place", you know.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Where do whole wheat / grain / etc. products fit into the picture?

    Are my whole wheat pitas going to make me fat? A very large portion of my meals involve a whole wheat product plus something else: pitas with hummus, or salsa, or peanut butter and honey, or veggie dogs/burgers with a whole wheat bun, or whole wheat cereal with milk, or whole wheat toast with eggs, and etc.

    It's a lot of bread, but ostensibly of the nutritious sort.

    MrMister on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    We have it from time to time, but it's always little things. And I honestly have to monitor her. She'll eat sweets until I tell her to stop (she'll stop when I mention it). She's gotten a lot better, but they'll put a bowl of say Tootsie Rolls out at work and she'll end up eating a good chunk of them rather than just one or two. Something in her brain doesn't tell her to stop ever. It's why I say she's an addict because she basically can't have ANY without having a LOT.

    Have you tried giving her sugar-free sweets? They have a lot of Splenda-made goods that taste pretty good.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The problem is that, while you may be able to regulate your body weight with a high-carb diet (even if it consists of complex carbs), you will have extreme difficulty holding other risk factors under control. This is why millions of people have to pay huge amounts of money every year for things like anti-cholesterol and anti-blood pressure medications. They are trying to treat the symptoms of having too much insulin (as a result of too many carbs), rather than treating the root cause itself (reducing carb intake to limit insulin production in the body).

    There exists a balance between "virtually no carbs" and "carbs all over the fucking place", you know.

    Maybe, but that balance does not exist if you're trying to limit fat intake, because then you'll make up for its lack by either eating carbs all over the fucking place, or trying to eat lots and lots of protein.

    I mean, given a 2000 calorie diet, if you reduce fats then you have to increase carbs and/or protein in order to remain at 2000 calories. If you don't do that, then you will have reduced your overall calorie intake, maybe slim down a little (calorie restricted low fat diets are effective to some extent, but have significant side effects), and become convinced that your low-fat, high carb diet is making you healthier. Whereas what will happen is that your body will downregulate your metabolism, maybe even break down your muscles for its protein and glucose, and you'll feel miserable. Why do you think people on traditional low-fat diets are so cranky all the time?

    You can try to convince yourself that "hey, I'm eating lots of complex carbs and fiber and therefore being healthy" but that really is not the case. As far as macronutrients go, complex carbs are only slightly less bad than refined carbs because their only difference is that they don't cause insulin spikes (but they make up for that by increasing the amount of time for which your pancreas secretes insulin).

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    Where do whole wheat / grain / etc. products fit into the picture?

    Are my whole wheat pitas going to make me fat? A very large portion of my meals involve a whole wheat product plus something else: pitas with hummus, or salsa, or peanut butter and honey, or veggie dogs/burgers with a whole wheat bun, or whole wheat cereal with milk, or whole wheat toast with eggs, and etc.

    It's a lot of bread, but ostensibly of the nutritious sort.

    I think you're fine if you have some protein and veggies in there, too. For breakfast I'll have a couple of eggs and a couple slices of bread in various ways. (Eggs over hard, or an omelet with a little cheese and toast, or sometimes french toast drizzled with some honey.) Lunch might be a peanut butter and honey sandwich with a stick of low-fat string cheese and some raw mini-carrots. Dinner is typically a meat plus a starch plus a vegetable in roughly equal proportions, volume-wise. I keep walnuts around for snacks.

    It's not low-carb, but it's also not carbs all over the damned place.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    Where do whole wheat / grain / etc. products fit into the picture?

    Are my whole wheat pitas going to make me fat? A very large portion of my meals involve a whole wheat product plus something else: pitas with hummus, or salsa, or peanut butter and honey, or veggie dogs/burgers with a whole wheat bun, or whole wheat cereal with milk, or whole wheat toast with eggs, and etc.

    It's a lot of bread, but ostensibly of the nutritious sort.

    They are only slightly less bad for you.

    Do not believe the food industry. The manufacturers LOVE to label their whole grain products as "heart healthy" "may reduce chance of CVD" and things like that, but the thing they aren't telling you (or maybe don't even know themselves) is that those statements are true only when compared to refined carbs like white bread. In other words, those labels aren't incorrect, but they aren't telling you everything.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The problem is that, while you may be able to regulate your body weight with a high-carb diet (even if it consists of complex carbs), you will have extreme difficulty holding other risk factors under control. This is why millions of people have to pay huge amounts of money every year for things like anti-cholesterol and anti-blood pressure medications. They are trying to treat the symptoms of having too much insulin (as a result of too many carbs), rather than treating the root cause itself (reducing carb intake to limit insulin production in the body).

    There exists a balance between "virtually no carbs" and "carbs all over the fucking place", you know.

    Maybe, but that balance does not exist if you're trying to limit fat intake, because then you'll make up for its lack by either eating carbs all over the fucking place, or trying to eat lots and lots of protein.

    I mean, given a 2000 calorie diet, if you reduce fats then you have to increase carbs and/or protein in order to remain at 2000 calories. If you don't do that, then you will have reduced your overall calorie intake, maybe slim down a little (calorie restricted low fat diets are effective to some extent, but have significant side effects), and become convinced that your low-fat, high carb diet is making you healthier. Whereas what will happen is that your body will downregulate your metabolism, maybe even break down your muscles for its protein and glucose, and you'll feel miserable. Why do you think people on traditional low-fat diets are so cranky all the time?

    You can try to convince yourself that "hey, I'm eating lots of complex carbs and fiber and therefore being healthy" but that really is not the case. As far as macronutrients go, complex carbs are only slightly less bad than refined carbs because their only difference is that they don't cause insulin spikes (but they make up for that by increasing the amount of time for which your pancreas secretes insulin).

    So you're saying that the only way to reach 2000 calories is either by eating a ton of fat, or by eating a ton of carbs? You might need to brush up on your math skills, home skizzle. Or else you have a peculiar definition of "lots"

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    Where do whole wheat / grain / etc. products fit into the picture?

    Are my whole wheat pitas going to make me fat? A very large portion of my meals involve a whole wheat product plus something else: pitas with hummus, or salsa, or peanut butter and honey, or veggie dogs/burgers with a whole wheat bun, or whole wheat cereal with milk, or whole wheat toast with eggs, and etc.

    It's a lot of bread, but ostensibly of the nutritious sort.

    They are only slightly less bad for you.

    Do not believe the food industry. The manufacturers LOVE to label their whole grain products as "heart healthy" "may reduce chance of CVD" and things like that, but the thing they aren't telling you (or maybe don't even know themselves) is that those statements are true only when compared to refined carbs like white bread. In other words, those labels aren't incorrect, but they aren't telling you everything.

    Fun fact: carbs in moderation will not kill you or rape your loved ones.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I mean, a large part of it is that I'm a vegetarian, and I'm looking for quick and simple things that I can make for myself as a relatively poor graduate student living alone. So although I do eat fish, I can't really afford it, and although I do know some really nice vegetarian dishes I don't really have the time or the will to cook for an hour or more every night when it's just for me.

    I've moved towards eating a lot more stir fried or sauteed vegetables, which are ostensibly okay because all the calories come from the cooking oil, but they require breaking out all the cooking stuff and don't really work well for snacking throughout the day. I would put a lot more fresh fruit in that role, but my grocery store has produce of only questionable quality, and I often end up buying it only to go on not to eat it before it goes bad because I don't really want it.

    MrMister on
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The problem is that, while you may be able to regulate your body weight with a high-carb diet (even if it consists of complex carbs), you will have extreme difficulty holding other risk factors under control. This is why millions of people have to pay huge amounts of money every year for things like anti-cholesterol and anti-blood pressure medications. They are trying to treat the symptoms of having too much insulin (as a result of too many carbs), rather than treating the root cause itself (reducing carb intake to limit insulin production in the body).

    There exists a balance between "virtually no carbs" and "carbs all over the fucking place", you know.

    Maybe, but that balance does not exist if you're trying to limit fat intake, because then you'll make up for its lack by either eating carbs all over the fucking place, or trying to eat lots and lots of protein.

    I mean, given a 2000 calorie diet, if you reduce fats then you have to increase carbs and/or protein in order to remain at 2000 calories. If you don't do that, then you will have reduced your overall calorie intake, maybe slim down a little (calorie restricted low fat diets are effective to some extent, but have significant side effects), and become convinced that your low-fat, high carb diet is making you healthier. Whereas what will happen is that your body will downregulate your metabolism, maybe even break down your muscles for its protein and glucose, and you'll feel miserable. Why do you think people on traditional low-fat diets are so cranky all the time?

    You can try to convince yourself that "hey, I'm eating lots of complex carbs and fiber and therefore being healthy" but that really is not the case. As far as macronutrients go, complex carbs are only slightly less bad than refined carbs because their only difference is that they don't cause insulin spikes (but they make up for that by increasing the amount of time for which your pancreas secretes insulin).

    So you're saying that the only way to reach 2000 calories is either by eating a ton of fat, or by eating a ton of carbs? You might need to brush up on your math skills, home skizzle. Or else you have a peculiar definition of "lots"

    Errr, hello strawman? Come on, you're a moderator. Certainly you can do better than that?

    Let's say you're consuming 500 calories of carbs, 500 calories of protein, and 1000 calories of fat.

    Now let's say you read somewhere that fats are bad for you, so you decided to reduce fat intake to 300 calories per day.

    Now, to make up for that and still remain at 2000 calories per day, you need to increase carb + protein calories from 1000 calories to 1700 calories. This means that you need to eat either more carbs, more protein, or more of both.

    The problem is that fat has 9 calories per gram, whereas both carbs and protein have 4 calories per gram. So, while you're reducing your fat intake by 700/9=77.7g, you have to increase carb+protein intake by more than twice that much in weight (175g). That's a significant increase in insulin, which means your blood cholesterol level, blood pressure, blood sugar, and body fat ratio will all go up.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    I mean, a large part of it is that I'm a vegetarian, and I'm looking for quick and simple things that I can make for myself as a relatively poor graduate student living alone. So although I do eat fish, I can't really afford it, and although I do know some really nice vegetarian dishes I don't really have the time or the will to cook for an hour or more every night when it's just for me.

    I've moved towards eating a lot more stir fried or sauteed vegetables, which are ostensibly okay because all the calories come from the cooking oil, but they require breaking out all the cooking stuff and don't really work well for snacking throughout the day. I would put a lot more fresh fruit in that role, but my grocery store has produce of only questionable quality, and I often end up buying it only to go on not to eat it before it goes bad because I don't really want it.

    I won't really comment on your vegetarianism (or pescetarianism, since you eat fish) - I was planning on starting another thread for it - but a low-carb vegetarian diet is extremely difficult. You're essentially limited to nuts, fish, fatty low carb veggies like avocados, and certain animal products like eggs.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    After taking a food-science course from and reading the book "An Apple a Day" by Joe Schwarz I am kind of not convinced by low-carb diets. Or just diets. Or even attempting to eat a single class of food stuffs in a particularly large amount. There are dozens of conflicting studies and less-than-impressive results for wonder foods/diets. The only really lasting results are: cook meals at home, eat fewer calories, and exercise more.

    I'd think a lot of the reason low-carb diets do anything at all is that few people snack on pork chops during the day. "Cutting out carbs" amounts to lowering your caloric intake by eating only during meal times.

    durandal4532 on
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  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I won't really comment on your vegetarianism (or pescetarianism, since you eat fish) - I was planning on starting another thread for it - but a low-carb vegetarian diet is extremely difficult. You're essentially limited to nuts, fish, fatty low carb veggies like avocados, and certain animal products like eggs.

    Here's a question: egg yolks have a lot of cholesterol. Will my heart explode if I eat several every day?

    Also: what about legumes? I was big on lentils for a while, for instance.

    Finally: most vegetables are mostly carbs in terms of their caloric content, but at the same time, most vegetables have almost no calories. So, in a straight up vegetable dish almost all the calories are going to come from the dressing or the cooking oil, which is straight up fats. So I was under the impression that roasted, grilled, fried, and whatever'd vegetables were fine vis a vie carbs.

    MrMister on
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    The only really lasting results are: cook meals at home, eat fewer calories, and exercise more.

    This is directly refuted in the OP, and in both of the books: Good Calories, Bad Calories, and Protein Power. I also explained later why "eat fewer calories and exercise more" is over-simplistic and useless.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    We have it from time to time, but it's always little things. And I honestly have to monitor her. She'll eat sweets until I tell her to stop (she'll stop when I mention it). She's gotten a lot better, but they'll put a bowl of say Tootsie Rolls out at work and she'll end up eating a good chunk of them rather than just one or two. Something in her brain doesn't tell her to stop ever. It's why I say she's an addict because she basically can't have ANY without having a LOT.

    Have you tried giving her sugar-free sweets? They have a lot of Splenda-made goods that taste pretty good.

    She pretty much hates them (at least what we've tried). I think the only time she enjoys anything sugar-free is Fresca and her mom's Splenda sweetened pies. It's not a bad idea necessarily though. If you have any specific suggestions that we might not have tried I'll have her check em out.

    Mblackwell on
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  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    After taking a food-science course from and reading the book "An Apple a Day" by Joe Schwarz I am kind of not convinced by low-carb diets. Or just diets. Or even attempting to eat a single class of food stuffs in a particularly large amount. There are dozens of conflicting studies and less-than-impressive results for wonder foods/diets. The only really lasting results are: cook meals at home, eat fewer calories, and exercise more.

    I'd think a lot of the reason low-carb diets do anything at all is that few people snack on pork chops during the day. "Cutting out carbs" amounts to lowering your caloric intake by eating only during meal times.

    This is entirely all I have to say about this matter.

    Thank you durandal

    Arch on
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    I won't really comment on your vegetarianism (or pescetarianism, since you eat fish) - I was planning on starting another thread for it - but a low-carb vegetarian diet is extremely difficult. You're essentially limited to nuts, fish, fatty low carb veggies like avocados, and certain animal products like eggs.

    Here's a question: egg yolks have a lot of cholesterol. Will my heart explode if I eat several every day?

    Also: what about legumes? I was big on lentils for a while, for instance.

    Finally: most vegetables are mostly carbs in terms of their caloric content, but at the same time, most vegetables have almost no calories. So, in a straight up vegetable dish almost all the calories are going to come from the dressing or the cooking oil, which is straight up fats. So I was under the impression that roasted, grilled, fried, and whatever'd vegetables were fine vis a vie carbs.

    Some veggies have more starch. Generally tubers like potatoes, carrots, etc. Carrots aren't so bad unless you cook them. Stick with green leafy veggies, and things with a high water content. At least from what I've heard.

    Also iirc the more cholesterol you consume the less your liver produces. So it actually makes no difference.

    Mblackwell on
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  • NargorothRiPNargorothRiP Registered User
    edited May 2010
    Anyone have any idea how to address a healthy diet low in carbs if the person is Hypo glycemic?

    NargorothRiP on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    If low-carb diets are so much better, then why does all the research show that low-carb (Atkins, specifically) and low-fat diets have roughly the same rate of weight loss and Atkins is only slightly better for retention?

    I'd love to see that research because it directly contradicts what I have read, and also seen first-hand (in myself and others). There hasn't been many prospective studies done on this topic until lately, because we thought that fats caused heart disease, so feeding humans full of fatty foods just to see what happens was a big no-no for ethics panels. The best we could do, until recently, was look at entire populations in epidemiological studies, and those don't say much.

    The only study I've seen comparing various other diets was this one, but it doesn't quite count because none of the groups were following their diets too well.

    Specifically though, the main reason low carb diets are better isn't because they are good for weight loss, but because they achieve lower risk of CHD along with said weight loss. Other diets don't do that nearly as much unless the caloric restriction is extreme (talking about less than 1000 calories per day, but that causes its own complications).
    Scalfin wrote: »

    I don't have access to the study text, but it sounds like they found a mere correlation, which doesn't imply causation, as you know. If anything, we don't know what else they consumed along with the red meats and processed meats in those studies. On top of that, one could easily argue that those who consume one supposedly unhealthy food (i.e. bacon) are likely to consume others (those heavy in carbs, for instance). In fact, looking at the findings, I'm almost certain the latter was the case in these studies, because there is no way in hell bacon by itself can raise risk of diabetes. Fat does not increase blood insulin levels.

    I'm citing the research from memory of studies done around the tail end of the Atkins craze. It's also the conclusion of the metastudies wikipedia lists on its page of low-carb studies.

    The main theory for why stuff like bacon and hotdogs are bad for you is that they're usually soaked in salt and cancer (bacon is basically a milder form of salt pork).

    Scalfin on
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  • AtomikaAtomika Brought to you by Technicolor™ Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The real key is caloric intake. The problem is that the FDA sets levels in the assumption that people are both currently healthy and living a healthy lifestyle. The FDA says healthy adults should have an intake of no more than 2000 Calories a day.

    Which is absolute bullshit, and will probably kill you, or at the very least give you diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Why? Because the average person, without significant amounts of cardiovascular exercise, only burns 700-1000 calories a day.

    Every fast-food chain has individual sandwiches that exceed that amount.

    The trick is not just watching your intake (like a hawk), but choosing the less calorie-dense foods so that you don't feel like you're not eating enough. Unfortunately, it's carbs that are most dense and therefore easiest to get rid of. But also, carbs don't break down like simple sugars, and are more likely to get stored as fat than be burnt off as energy.

    So kids, each green vegetables, poultry, and seafood. You'll get your fill and not rack on the extra poundage.

    Atomika on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    After taking a food-science course from and reading the book "An Apple a Day" by Joe Schwarz I am kind of not convinced by low-carb diets. Or just diets. Or even attempting to eat a single class of food stuffs in a particularly large amount. There are dozens of conflicting studies and less-than-impressive results for wonder foods/diets. The only really lasting results are: cook meals at home, eat fewer calories, and exercise more.

    I'd think a lot of the reason low-carb diets do anything at all is that few people snack on pork chops during the day. "Cutting out carbs" amounts to lowering your caloric intake by eating only during meal times.

    This is entirely all I have to say about this matter.

    Thank you durandal

    Apperantly, any sort of diet can help a bit because you eat less if you have a monotonous diet. That's why new diets work so well until people find strategies to make "Atkins-friendly" bread and the like (I heard this analysis near the end of Atkin's popularity, when somebody noted that all the Atkin's meals companies were coming out with were making the diet too easy).

    Scalfin on
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    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS
    edited May 2010
    MrMister wrote: »
    I won't really comment on your vegetarianism (or pescetarianism, since you eat fish) - I was planning on starting another thread for it - but a low-carb vegetarian diet is extremely difficult. You're essentially limited to nuts, fish, fatty low carb veggies like avocados, and certain animal products like eggs.

    Here's a question: egg yolks have a lot of cholesterol. Will my heart explode if I eat several every day?

    Also: what about legumes? I was big on lentils for a while, for instance.

    Finally: most vegetables are mostly carbs in terms of their caloric content, but at the same time, most vegetables have almost no calories. So, in a straight up vegetable dish almost all the calories are going to come from the dressing or the cooking oil, which is straight up fats. So I was under the impression that roasted, grilled, fried, and whatever'd vegetables were fine vis a vie carbs.

    re: eggs. Dietery cholesterol actually has a clinically negligible impact on blood cholesterol.

    http://urbanext.illinois.edu/eggs/res06-cholesterol.html
    Thirteen patients at the Highland Hospital in Oakland, California were fed the equivalent in egg yolks of that found in 15 eggs per day for a 3 week period. The serum cholesterol did not increase significantly in any except two bedridden, obese patients. Four of the 7 ambulatory patients in the study actually showed a slight decrease in serum cholesterol.

    In the Ireland-Boston Heart Study the researchers followed 600 Irishmen between the ages of 30 and 60 who had lived in Boston for 10 or more years and their brothers who had never left the old country. The Irish brothers ate about twice as many eggs as their American brothers--averaging over 14 per week. Yet, the Irish brothers had lower levels of cholesterol in their bloodstream, and their hearts were rated from 2 to 6 times healthier. The same Harvard doctor examined both groups. More physical exercise was given as a possible reason for this difference.

    Dr. Robert Itchiness, a cardiologist in New York city specializing in metabolic disorders, has treated over 8,000 patients. He lowered the serum cholesterol markedly in 63 percent of his patients with a diet high in meat, milk, and eggs. Dr. Itchiness believes that 95 percent of all heart trouble is associated with high serum triglycerides and attributes this to the staggering increase in sugar consumption--up from 7 pounds per person in 1840 to over 100 pounds today.

    As for your other question, I avoid legumes because of their carb content, even though they also contain fiber and protein. For other vegetables that are low-carb, you can cook them in olive oil or butter and that would be totally fine.

    Protein Shakes on
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Well, if my mom met the following criteria... I'd be in favor if waterboarding her.
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The real key is caloric intake. The problem is that the FDA sets levels in the assumption that people are both currently healthy and living a healthy lifestyle. The FDA says healthy adults should have an intake of no more than 2000 Calories a day.

    Which is absolute bullshit, and will probably kill you, or at the very least give you diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Why? Because the average person, without significant amounts of cardiovascular exercise, only burns 700-1000 calories a day.

    Every fast-food chain has individual sandwiches that exceed that amount.

    The trick is not just watching your intake (like a hawk), but choosing the less calorie-dense foods so that you don't feel like you're not eating enough. Unfortunately, it's carbs that are most dense and therefore easiest to get rid of. But also, carbs don't break down like simple sugars, and are more likely to get stored as fat than be burnt off as energy.

    So kids, each green vegetables, poultry, and seafood. You'll get your fill and not rack on the extra poundage.

    If you watched the lecture, Taubes dismisses the 'toxic environment' argument by showing examples where there is obesity epidemics amongst populations that are malnourished and poor.

    Casually Hardcore on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    I'd still reduce your yolk intake, though, but that's mainly because I find the normal ratio of egg to white a little too soft, and have had good results from only using the white of one egg in a dish (if I have two eggs, it's actually two white and one yolk).

    Scalfin on
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    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
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