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Fundamentalist Militant [Vegetarianism] and [Veganism]

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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Anything dairy-based mixed with alcohol gets pretty nasty pretty fast, whereas soy products don't really have the same reaction.

    Since you don't need the exact particular flavor of cream or milk, but more the general flavor and texture, soy substitutes fill the same function but without getting all nasty and curdled.

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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Anything dairy-based mixed with alcohol gets pretty nasty pretty fast, whereas soy products don't really have the same reaction.

    Since you don't need the exact particular flavor of cream or milk, but more the general flavor and texture, soy substitutes fill the same function but without getting all nasty and curdled.

    Makes sense.

    But I mostly drink my liquor neat so it doesn't really come up.

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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    high-five zampanov

    If pretzels and peanuts are vegan then I'm usually vegan when I'm drinking, unless it's at dinner.

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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Another fun feux meat fact: Until very recently the vast majority of all meat replacement products were filled with tons and tons of chemical additives and stabilizers and colorings. Disgusting.

    Mushroom sandwiches are great. Tofu is great, but tofurky? Tofu scrambled eggs? Veggie chicken sandwiches? Yerch.

    Vegan thanksgiving can be kinda fun though. Just make all the sides and sub every meat product out. Stuffing isn't quite the same, nor are the mash potatoes with no dairy but the rest is pretty good. Kinda hard to make a good gravy but there are a couple of wine/veggie stock combinations that work pretty well.

    I actually did vegan thanksgiving two years ago and it was fucking awesome

    gotta find some pictures

    We did it last winter sometime. It worked out well. gonna do it this winter too and I'm going to spend this fall working on the perfect gravy. Without that collagen though it just doesn't have the right viscosity.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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    CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Pony wrote: »
    you know when i said

    i've never eaten a vegetarian dish containing faux-meat that i actually enjoyed

    that was something of a gauntlet being thrown down to be proven wrong

    it's something i actually want to have my mind changed about

    I'm not a vegetarian but I think most vegetarian dishes should not even attempt to resemble similar meat based dishes. Any time that happens it ends up being crap. Conversely most vegetarian dishes i've had that are not faux-meat based are pretty good.
    Like who the hell puts carots, mushrooms, spinach, cucumbers, etc. in a burrito? Thats just throwing vegetables into a tortilla with rice and beans and calling it a burrito. :?

    CommunistCow on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I agree on the principal of your argument but veggie burritoes are awesome.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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    CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Heartlash wrote: »
    I am an omnivore who lives with two vegetarians (soon to be 3) and has more than a few vegan/vegetarian friends. Never once have any of them displayed the utter aggressiveness displayed by the story or general sentiments of the OP. That kind of violent fundamentalism is excessively rare. I find it far more common that I see people acting overly defensive/aggressive toward them upon discovering their diet.

    In the dorms at CU I saw some pretty aggressive vegetarians and of course the usual PETA wackos at the student center showing slaughter house shock videos. Since I've gotten out of college I haven't really run into any. I however do have a coworker who I refer to as "the worst vegetarian ever" because he fucking hates most fruits and vegetables.

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    CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I agree on the principal of your argument but veggie burritoes are awesome.

    I'm fine if you made a veggie burrito with rice, beans, grilled onions/bell pepers, cheese, and pico de gallo. That would be far superior to throwing random things from the produce section into a tortilla.

    CommunistCow on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Heartlash wrote: »
    I am an omnivore who lives with two vegetarians (soon to be 3) and has more than a few vegan/vegetarian friends. Never once have any of them displayed the utter aggressiveness displayed by the story or general sentiments of the OP. That kind of violent fundamentalism is excessively rare. I find it far more common that I see people acting overly defensive/aggressive toward them upon discovering their diet.

    In the dorms at CU I saw some pretty aggressive vegetarians and of course the usual PETA wackos at the student center showing slaughter house shock videos. Since I've gotten out of college I haven't really run into any. I however do have a coworker who I refer to as "the worst vegetarian ever" because he fucking hates most fruits and vegetables.

    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

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    CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

    No he eats a reasonable amount of pizza, pastas, and a very select number of fruits and veggies.

    CommunistCow on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    If you live in or near Dallas, and love vegetarian/Indian food, you owe it yourself to eat at Kalachandji's at least once. It's like Heaven exists, only the Hare Krishnas found it first and made a restaurant out of it.

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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I agree on the principal of your argument but veggie burritoes are awesome.

    I'm fine if you made a veggie burrito with rice, beans, grilled onions/bell pepers, cheese, and pico de gallo. That would be far superior to throwing random things from the produce section into a tortilla.

    Yeah I re read your post after awhile and you're right, I was thinking rice/beans/other stuff instead of just a salad in a tortilla. That is wrong and I apologize, you know your stuff!

    Xenogears of Bore on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

    No he eats a reasonable amount of pizza, pastas, and a very select number of fruits and veggies.

    For some reason I thought you said vegan. That makes more sense.

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    SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

    No he eats a reasonable amount of pizza, pastas, and a very select number of fruits and veggies.

    For some reason I thought you said vegan. That makes more sense.

    Isn't that just known as a potato-chip vegetarian? That is always what I've heard them called.

    Saammiel on
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    CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Saammiel wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

    No he eats a reasonable amount of pizza, pastas, and a very select number of fruits and veggies.

    For some reason I thought you said vegan. That makes more sense.

    Isn't that just known as a potato-chip vegetarian? That is always what I've heard them called.

    I've never heard that term before but I like it.

    CommunistCow on
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    Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Am I weird for absolutely loving most veggie burgers and faked meat products? Besides veggie hot dogs. Those creep me out.
    Saammiel wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    I don't understand. Does he look like Christian Bale in The Machinist?

    No he eats a reasonable amount of pizza, pastas, and a very select number of fruits and veggies.

    For some reason I thought you said vegan. That makes more sense.

    Isn't that just known as a potato-chip vegetarian? That is always what I've heard them called.

    I've never heard that term before but I like it.

    Like I said, I hate fat vegetarians. I've come close to walking that road before, too. Sugar and starch are vegan, sadly.

    Mortal Sky on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Vegans who are anti-honey mystify me.

    I wonder if they only adhere to the stance out of a misguided attempt to make their "NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS" viewpoint absolute and without exception for the sake of having a firm belief system.

    technically

    bees die during collection: some are actually crushed removing the combs from the hive

    in addition the smoking process can asphyxiate some of them as well

    so

    Animals die during corn harvesting too.

    oh yes thank you for this perfectly useless fact when i already addressed this. if you missed it-

    eating animals grown as foodstock not only requires the loss of life of THAT animal, but also since most factory farmed animals are fed from harvested grain (like cornmeal or hay) that ALSO involves the loss of life and has its OWN separate environmental impact, I consider it less bad, relatively, to avoid the animal meat.

    But again, as I have said SEVERAL TIMES, small scale responsible farms completely alleviate this problem.

    so yes please, continue to make points that have no bearing on the discussion and avoid most of what we have already gone over

    I was thinking more in comparison to the bees that die during honey collection that you were talking about, not to KFC chickens. There's a difference between intentional killing of animals and unintentional killing. Though it probably doesn't make much difference to the animals, I'm sure it does to ethical vegans.

    I don't see the difference between the unintended crushing of bees during hive removal and the unintended running over of a gopher with tractor. Neither killing is intentional, so what am I missing that makes one kosher and the other not?

    I don't think bees are fed grain, either.

    BubbaT on
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    Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    They may not be intentional, but they are still avoidable.

    Protein Shakes on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    man quid ain't even vegetarian; hes a false idol

    Hey!

    There are multiple days of the week I happen to be vegetarian since I don't seem to have this obsession with meat others do.

    On those days I hang up the framed Mao Zedong picture.

    Quid on
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    nescientistnescientist Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    There's a difference between intentional killing of animals and unintentional killing. Though it probably doesn't make much difference to the animals, I'm sure it does to ethical vegans.

    Even organic farmers will intentionally kill more insects than any beekeeper, so there is pretty much no way anti-honey vegans aren't deluding themselves.

    nescientist on
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    oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Pony wrote: »
    you know when i said

    i've never eaten a vegetarian dish containing faux-meat that i actually enjoyed

    that was something of a gauntlet being thrown down to be proven wrong

    it's something i actually want to have my mind changed about

    I'm not a vegetarian but I think most vegetarian dishes should not even attempt to resemble similar meat based dishes. Any time that happens it ends up being crap. Conversely most vegetarian dishes i've had that are not faux-meat based are pretty good.

    I dated a vegetarian for a few years and thus was always looking for vegetarian restaurants to try with her. We once went to this one that was known for its faux meat dishes. She loved it, said it was the best she had. It was crap.

    We went back a few more times because she liked it so much, but from then on I stuck to the dishes which weren't pretending to be something else, and they were significantly better.

    oldsak on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    The wife is making enchiladas with fake chicken right now.

    Oh goodness I hope it can match the flavored of cheap chicken boiled in water.

    Quid on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    The wife is making enchiladas with fake chicken right now.

    Oh goodness I hope it can match the flavored of cheap chicken boiled in water.

    Nope, apparently your fate is sealed.

    I eat real chicken whilst listening to "Killing Just for Fun" by Tito and Tarantula.

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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    oldsak wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    you know when i said

    i've never eaten a vegetarian dish containing faux-meat that i actually enjoyed

    that was something of a gauntlet being thrown down to be proven wrong

    it's something i actually want to have my mind changed about

    I'm not a vegetarian but I think most vegetarian dishes should not even attempt to resemble similar meat based dishes. Any time that happens it ends up being crap. Conversely most vegetarian dishes i've had that are not faux-meat based are pretty good.

    I dated a vegetarian for a few years and thus was always looking for vegetarian restaurants to try with her. We once went to this one that was known for its faux meat dishes. She loved it, said it was the best she had. It was crap.

    We went back a few more times because she liked it so much, but from then on I stuck to the dishes which weren't pretending to be something else, and they were significantly better.



    It really depends on the place, I love my meat but there is a few good places I have been to that pull off a decent fake meat dish. Some are excellent, others fall short.

    I buy Yves veggie ground round all the time, and I enjoy "some" of the Yves brand veggie dogs.

    I still havent found a veggie burger that I would consistantly eat tho.

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    nstfnstf __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    The wife is making enchiladas with fake chicken right now.

    Oh goodness I hope it can match the flavored of cheap chicken boiled in water.

    Divorce is in order, that's a crime against humanity.

    There are two types of women I will not date, no matter what. Vegetarians and born again Christians, largely for the same reason. Though I find the born agains to be a lot less pushy about their beliefs, and less aggressive about them as well.

    I learned about both the hard way.

    And I'm dead serious about not dating them, it's horrible.

    nstf on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    nstf everybody, nstf!

    he will be here all week, (don't) try the veal!

    Arch on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Vegans who are anti-honey mystify me.

    I wonder if they only adhere to the stance out of a misguided attempt to make their "NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS" viewpoint absolute and without exception for the sake of having a firm belief system.

    technically

    bees die during collection: some are actually crushed removing the combs from the hive

    in addition the smoking process can asphyxiate some of them as well

    so

    Animals die during corn harvesting too.

    oh yes thank you for this perfectly useless fact when i already addressed this. if you missed it-

    eating animals grown as foodstock not only requires the loss of life of THAT animal, but also since most factory farmed animals are fed from harvested grain (like cornmeal or hay) that ALSO involves the loss of life and has its OWN separate environmental impact, I consider it less bad, relatively, to avoid the animal meat.

    But again, as I have said SEVERAL TIMES, small scale responsible farms completely alleviate this problem.

    so yes please, continue to make points that have no bearing on the discussion and avoid most of what we have already gone over

    I was thinking more in comparison to the bees that die during honey collection that you were talking about, not to KFC chickens. There's a difference between intentional killing of animals and unintentional killing. Though it probably doesn't make much difference to the animals, I'm sure it does to ethical vegans.

    I don't see the difference between the unintended crushing of bees during hive removal and the unintended running over of a gopher with tractor. Neither killing is intentional, so what am I missing that makes one kosher and the other not?

    I don't think bees are fed grain, either.

    Sorry- I thought this was directed at me. I apologize for the harsh rebuttal.

    Short answer? Vegans are silly.

    Long answer? unless you grow your own food yourself, there is a level of death you have to accept initially. Veganism is all about reducing the amount of death when it comes to your food.

    Again, in a numbers game- in MOST cases, more animals are killed if you eat meat than if you don't.

    Arch on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I never understood fake meat.

    Well. I guess I understand "converts" to vegetarianism wanting to cling to traditional meat dishes, thus being more sympathetic to rather foul facsimiles of them.

    But there are so many delicious kinds of vegetarian food. Indian cuisine, people! And even in Western food, you can usually approximate "meatiness" by using mushrooms and beans. Aggressive seasonings will cover up blandness.

    Though I still eat real meat so perhaps I shouldn't talk.

    Qingu on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    I never understood fake meat.

    Well. I guess I understand "converts" to vegetarianism wanting to cling to traditional meat dishes, thus being more sympathetic to rather foul facsimiles of them.

    But there are so many delicious kinds of vegetarian food. Indian cuisine, people! And even in Western food, you can usually approximate "meatiness" by using mushrooms and beans. Aggressive seasonings will cover up blandness.

    Though I still eat real meat so perhaps I shouldn't talk.

    It is a lazyness thing for me

    and an unwillingness to give up italian sausage in my pasta dishes

    (vegetarian italian "sausage" actually tastes surprisingly close to the real thing.)

    Arch on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I really wish Cook's Illustrated would put out a vegetarian cookbook.

    Qingu on
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    nstfnstf __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    nstf everybody, nstf!

    he will be here all week, (don't) try the veal!

    I find dating people with diametricaly opposing moral and ethics views leads to problems. And if those views are rather firm, it just leads to problems. I've never dated a vegetarian that didn't at some point try to convert me.

    Would you date a born in the wool conservative? Probably not since you'd but heads.
    (vegetarian italian "sausage" actually tastes surprisingly close to the real thing.)

    I've had that as well, and no it does not. I think part of the deal is the longer you stay veg, the more you forget what the real deal tastes like. Those of us that live off the real deal, can tell it off the first bite.
    Well. I guess I understand "converts" to vegetarianism wanting to cling to traditional meat dishes, thus being more sympathetic to rather foul facsimiles of them.

    But there are so many delicious kinds of vegetarian food. Indian cuisine, people!

    That's pretty much it in a nut shell. Vegetarian food is amazing in many ways. You don't need meat to make a meal. And most omnivores will eat it and love it. It's once you start delving into tofurky and false sausage that it turns into a mess.

    You want a vegetarian breakfast, and want me to eat it? Fine, whip up eggs flourentine, some fruit, and oatmeal, that stuff rocks. Don't feed me fake sausage and bacon and claim it's good, that stuff is foul.

    I don't think vegetarians would catch flack from ominvores if it wasn't for the rather insane creations involving fake meat.

    nstf on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    nstf wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    nstf everybody, nstf!

    he will be here all week, (don't) try the veal!

    I find dating people with diametricaly opposing moral and ethics views leads to problems. And if those views are rather firm, it just leads to problems. I've never dated a vegetarian that didn't at some point try to convert me.

    I find it strange that your commitment to eating meat is so profound to your identity that you would characterize vegetarianism as diametric opposition to your beliefs.
    I don't think vegetarians would catch flack from ominvores if it wasn't for the rather insane creations involving fake meat.

    I think vegetarians catch flack mainly because people like you are so thin-skinned about challenges to their morals.

    Hachface on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hachface wrote: »
    nstf wrote: »
    I don't think vegetarians would catch flack from ominvores if it wasn't for the rather insane creations involving fake meat.

    I think vegetarians catch flack mainly because people like you are so thin-skinned about challenges to their morals.

    Or palates.

    Or health choices.

    Tofystedeth on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    nstf wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    nstf everybody, nstf!

    he will be here all week, (don't) try the veal!

    I find dating people with diametricaly opposing moral and ethics views leads to problems. And if those views are rather firm, it just leads to problems. I've never dated a vegetarian that didn't at some point try to convert me.

    Would you date a born in the wool conservative? Probably not since you'd but heads.
    (vegetarian italian "sausage" actually tastes surprisingly close to the real thing.)

    I've had that as well, and no it does not. I think part of the deal is the longer you stay veg, the more you forget what the real deal tastes like. Those of us that live off the real deal, can tell it off the first bite.

    Okay seriously at this point I am getting a bit perturbed. We can do this back and forth forever, but if your only contribution to this thread is going to continue to be "OMFG divorce vegetarians they are so bad you guys so bad! Just like their horribly evil fake meat products that are disgusting and gross and no one can enjoy!" it would be nice if you stopped.

    Furthermore- I have only been vegetarian for a year. I have, in no way, "forgotten" what real meat tastes like. In addition, I served (with their full consent and knowledge!) these sausages to my family, who eat "real" italian sausages weekly and they agreed that the flavor was rather close.

    Basically- Yes we get you think that "fake meat" products are the nastiest things on earth. You can stop now, as there are still some of us who enjoy them.

    Arch on
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Okay seriously at this point I am getting a bit perturbed. We can do this back and forth forever, but if your only contribution to this thread is going to continue to be "OMFG divorce vegetarians they are so bad you guys so bad! Just like their horribly evil fake meat products that are disgusting and gross and no one can enjoy!" it would be nice if you stopped.

    Furthermore- I have only been vegetarian for a year. I have, in no way, "forgotten" what real meat tastes like. In addition, I served (with their full consent and knowledge!) these sausages to my family, who eat "real" italian sausages weekly and they agreed that the flavor was rather close.

    Basically- Yes we get you think that "fake meat" products are the nastiest things on earth. You can stop now, as there are still some of us who enjoy them.

    Really at this point it's just him posting over and over about how special and refined his own palate is, since I serve this kind of stuff to people who still eat omnivorously, and they rather like it. It's a quality issue between individual products, like anything else.

    Speaking of quality, there's a wide range in the smells of meat products. Some smells rather appetizing, and then some, like a can of beef soup made of kibbles & snouts actually smells rancid, but I know people who gobble that shit up. Is it supposed to smell like it's turned?

    Octoparrot on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    nstf wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The wife is making enchiladas with fake chicken right now.

    Oh goodness I hope it can match the flavored of cheap chicken boiled in water.

    Divorce is in order, that's a crime against humanity.

    There are two types of women I will not date, no matter what. Vegetarians and born again Christians, largely for the same reason. Though I find the born agains to be a lot less pushy about their beliefs, and less aggressive about them as well.

    I learned about both the hard way.

    And I'm dead serious about not dating them, it's horrible.

    Nope, they were fantastic like always. There is nothing special about shredded boiled chicken that keeps it from being replaced with some other protein, especially since it's the sauce that pretty much makes the dish. Your own shortcomings in both social circles and the culinary shines through again.

    Quid on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Who the hell boils a chicken in 2010?

    I'd just like to go on the record that I've had plenty of good tasting "meat substitutes". Or whatever you wanna call them. They don't taste exactly like meat, but unless that's a big qualifier for you, it's not really a problem.

    I'm talking specifically about stuff that's supposed to substitute for meat, not something that just takes it's place, like a delicious burger with mushrooms instead of meat.

    Sheep on
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    nstfnstf __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    nstf wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    The wife is making enchiladas with fake chicken right now.

    Oh goodness I hope it can match the flavored of cheap chicken boiled in water.

    Divorce is in order, that's a crime against humanity.

    There are two types of women I will not date, no matter what. Vegetarians and born again Christians, largely for the same reason. Though I find the born agains to be a lot less pushy about their beliefs, and less aggressive about them as well.

    I learned about both the hard way.

    And I'm dead serious about not dating them, it's horrible.

    Nope, they were fantastic like always. There is nothing special about shredded boiled chicken that keeps it from being replaced with some other protein, especially since it's the sauce that pretty much makes the dish. Your own shortcomings in both social circles and the culinary shines through again.

    Your own faults in crappy poultry show what quality meat you eat.

    nstf on
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Who the hell boils a chicken in 2010?

    It's poaching! Obviously don't use only water.

    Octoparrot on
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