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Fundamentalist Militant [Vegetarianism] and [Veganism]

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    CliffCliff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    Cliff on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    You stop at human? Pussy.

    Zampanov on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    This is pretty awful overall. You both immediately discriminate against a group of people and refuse any concept of not being cruel to animals.

    Quid on
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    CliffCliff Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Quid wrote: »
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    This is pretty awful overall. You both immediately discriminate against a group of people and refuse any concept of not being cruel to animals.

    You are correct.

    Cliff on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cliff wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    This is pretty awful overall. You both immediately discriminate against a group of people and refuse any concept of not being cruel to animals.

    You are correct.

    Your severe allergy to the very notion that you should consider the ethical implications of your diet is well documented. Rest assured that I have taken note of this strange pathology, and you have my sympathy.

    Hachface on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Hey guys- whats the only thing worse then a fanatical vegetarian decrying all meat as murder and claiming that anyone consuming animalflesh is morally bankrupt?

    A fanatical carnivore claiming that all vegetarians are misguided, elitist, unhealthy hippies!

    The only thing worse than that?

    That carnivore making a thread about it!

    What is the only thing worse than THAT?

    Hitler.

    Arch on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them.

    OK.

    We're not friends then.

    I'm traumatized, and the vegetarian / vegan community has truly suffered a tragic loss by not being able to associate with someone as magnificent as yourself. I'll go cry myself to sleep.

    PotatoNinja on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    You hungry?

    "No thanks. I'm a strict carnivore."

    Sheep on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    You hungry?

    "No thanks. I'm a strict carnivore."

    "How dare you not eat vegetables?!?!" Is a meat-eater forced to eat vegan cooking they don't like? Are we adult enough that its ok to turn down food, or is that only ok if done while gripping your third salad fork with your right hand with your napkin in between your legs on your lap with one pinky in the air and a monocle?

    Seriously, who cares? Wait, let me answer that--omnivores with weird dietary psychosis looking to create a strawman vegetarian villain to fight against in order to compensate for their weird self-loathing.

    PotatoNinja on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    I like how you ask if we're adult enough for the situation and then follow that with the insinuation that meat eaters suffer a psychosis, that there's no such thing as an asshole vegetarian, and that meat eaters suffer a form of self loathing.

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    That was a well thought out and reasonable response.

    :^:

    Sheep on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    that there's no such thing as an asshole vegetarian

    Except I never said there wasn't such a thing as an asshole vegetarian. I've said multiple times in this thread that some vegetarians are assholes. You are PROJECTING this villain onto anyone who doesn't eat meat.

    Some vegetarians are assholes. Some meat eaters are assholes. Assholes are bad, don't be an asshole.

    If you get offended because somebody doesn't want to eat your food, your are an asshole. If you have some kind of weird issue where you feel the need to wage war against someone's dietary choices, you are also an asshole.

    I'm not going to preface every post I make in this thread with a disclaimer that vegetarians can be bad people too. If you're an adult you can read what I post and if not you're going to assume I'm part of some secret pro-vegetarian meat-hating conspiracy anyways.

    PotatoNinja on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    I've said multiple times in this thread that some vegetarians are assholes.

    Then why did you turn around and just say it was a strawman?
    You are PROJECTING this villain onto anyone who doesn't eat meat.

    Absolutely not. I think pretty much every post I made yesterday described vegetarian friends of mine who don't identify themselves by their diet and tend to not bring it up. I compared them to people who tend to always slip "I'm a vegetarian" into conversation.

    I pretty clearly stated that I don't subscribed to the same morals and ethics they do and feel that many vegetarians do so only out of convenience and luxury and social standing.

    I didn't say all vegetarians, just some, and supported that with anecdotal evidence by comparing close and vegetarian acquaintances who don't identify themselves by their diet to those that I know who do identify themselves by their diet.
    If you have some kind of weird issue where you feel the need to wage war against someone's dietary choices, you are also an asshole.

    I don't think many people are doing this in this thread.

    But really, if you're worried about projecting, then maybe you shouldn't accuse non vegetarians of waging war against you. It definitely seems to me that Cliff said something goosish and you immediately lumped me in with him because we both happen to eat steak.

    Sheep on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    PotatoNinja on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    Wait, why do you hate me again? We've never even met.

    Speaker on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    Wait, why do you hate me again? We've never even met.

    Because a vegetarian and his cow friend killed his parents.

    Zampanov on
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    Although that sounds pretty dumb in most situations. "I fucking hate asparagus" would probably be a better explanation.

    Octoparrot on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »

    Now multiply that by the amount that would be freed up by ending the use of cows.

    Artificial muscle tissue for consumption will replace much of it, but the industries surrounding beef byproducts won't be replaced and there will always be a demand for "real" beef and offal.
    If we can grow artificial beef, we can't be far off from growing artificial leather and marrow.

    That would basically turn cows into a luxury good, which is a completely sustainable option.

    I don't think it actually works out one to one that you pick up agricultural land as you diminish pasturage.

    Pasturage can work fine for land that isn't suitable for agriculture.

    Speaker on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    Although that sounds pretty dumb in most situations. "I fucking hate asparagus" would probably be a better explanation.

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    Zampanov on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    Although that sounds pretty dumb in most situations. "I fucking hate asparagus" would probably be a better explanation.

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    :(

    Arch on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    :(

    I apologize if you are asparagus.

    Zampanov on
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    Wait, why do you hate me again? We've never even met.

    Because a vegetarian and his cow friend killed his parents.

    No, Cliff is the guy who likes to enter D&D Vegetarian threads in order to flame people.

    Octoparrot on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    :(

    I apologize if you are asparagus.

    apology accepted

    Arch on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Protein said in the OP that most of the vegan/vegetarians he had personally met were obnoxious militants about it.

    I hope by this point someone has pointed out that people who are vegetarians or vegans and aren't obnoxious about their preference will naturally not be bringing it to his attention. If you aren't being obnoxious about it, whether you are a vegetarian or not doesn't automatically come up in conversation.

    So his view of how obnoxious or not vegetarians/vegans are on average can't really be informed by personal experience.

    Speaker on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    Although that sounds pretty dumb in most situations. "I fucking hate asparagus" would probably be a better explanation.

    I've had people explain that meals without meat don't feel whole to them.

    Fine by me. Some people don't like pasta without pasta sauce. Also fine by me.

    Obviously if your (your in the general sense, not your-Sheep or your-Octoparrot) response, either as a vegetarian or omnivore (or carnivore, although really no human is really entirely a carnivore) is "FUCK YOU AND YOUR BELIEFS I WON'T BOW TO YOUR FOOD TYRANNY!" you're an asshole but really that isn't connected to refusing food, eating meat, or not eating meat.

    PotatoNinja on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Cliff wrote: »
    Basically, I hate vegetarians/vegans and will not associate with them. If eating meat were categorically proven to be immoral, I would still do it. I value the enjoyment I get out of eating meat above all animal(excluding human) life on the planet. I don't care how many animals suffer so I can eat my fill.

    Wait, why do you hate me again? We've never even met.

    Because a vegetarian and his cow friend killed his parents.

    That sounds brutal.

    Has Homeland Security been made aware of the Hindu vigilante menace?

    Speaker on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    :(

    I apologize if you are asparagus.

    apology accepted

    No seriously fuck asparagus. "I'm delicious if you fry me in butter." well no shit asparagus what vegetable isn't delicious if you fry it in butter? You think you're so special? You ain't shit asparagus. You ain't shit.

    PotatoNinja on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Zampanov wrote: »

    Seriously, fuck asparagus.

    :(

    I apologize if you are asparagus.

    apology accepted

    No seriously fuck asparagus. "I'm delicious if you fry me in butter." well no shit asparagus what vegetable isn't delicious if you fry it in butter? You think you're so special? You ain't shit asparagus. You ain't shit.

    LEAVE ASPARAGUS ALONEEEEEEEE

    Arch on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Perpetual wrote: »
    It really depends on the tone. I've met a lot of vegetarians and vegans that say "no thanks" with a tone of extreme disgust combined with an air of superiority.

    Man, that giant cross you're carrying must be pretty heavy.

    MrMister on
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    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Boil them in very salty water and then saute them in some olive oil.

    Tasty and veg friendly.

    Sheep on
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    PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Boil them in very salty water and then saute them in some olive oil.

    Tasty and veg friendly.

    Vegetarians, giant crosses, or asparagus?

    PotatoNinja on
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    ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »
    Boil them in very salty water and then saute them in some olive oil.

    Tasty and veg friendly.

    Vegetarians, giant crosses, or asparagus?

    Yes

    Zampanov on
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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I have not ever met any vegetarian who was a silly goose

    in other news: I know how to make friends with people whose company I enjoy, and avoid people whose company I do not enjoy.

    durandal4532 on
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    lazegamerlazegamer The magnanimous cyberspaceRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I feel like this topic could easily be more generalized to anyone who holds a set of beliefs and values. We've had similar threads about atheists (I'm not sure the title of the thread isn't an homage to those threads), and it certainly comes up constantly that evangelicals are dicks. Focusing on what people are vehement about is missing the issue, it's the manner in which they go about it. Christians, atheists, vegetarians, liberals, conservatives, etc. are not assholes, assholes are assholes.

    lazegamer on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    How does sustainable farming practice not make eating animals cruel? I would have thought the argument would have been better split into two: 1) Eating any animal is cruel and 2) Modern and traditional animal raising/slaughtering practices are cruel

    I'd say it's more cruel to kill them with a thresher and not eat them. Then you're just wasting that dead animal, like the people who used to shoot buffalo from train windows a century ago. An animal you kill and don't eat died for nothing.

    And they're dying (and the environment's being ruined) either way. A corn field does not exist in an animal-free vacuum. There are animals all over that cornfield, and they will die at harvest time. Once the animal is dead, is it more moral to leave it to rot than eat it?

    Excerpts from the book don't show obnoxious, fundamentalism carnivore-ism, but rather an opposition to industrialized factory farming, regardless of whether the product is wheat or beef. Fundamentalist vegans arguing against fundamentalist carnivores is like fundamentalist Christians vs fundamentalist Muslims, simply arguing one side's superiority is missing the problem. The problem isn't wheat vs meat, the problem is industrialized agriculture as a whole. Is vegan/vegetarian-ism so inherently morally superior to eating meat that eating a Monsanto-patented soybean is better than eating a chicken from a local farm?

    Apparently that message was so threatening to some folks' worldview that it warranted a pepper pie.

    Couscous wrote: »
    I don't want to be attacked by assholes who claim they will eat two burgers for every one I don't eat.

    Curious: are there cases of meat-lovers actually attacking vegetarians on the basis of diet? Are there meat-eaters running around throwing tomato juice at people for not wearing fur?

    Qingu wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Umm. Meat is expensive, actually.

    No it isn't.
    I don't know how you can seriously claim this. Are you being sarcastic?
    [/QUOTE]

    Meat isn't expensive. Wagyu beef is expensive, but I can find "meat" by turning over a rock.

    BubbaT on
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    voodoosporkvoodoospork Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    In all cases, herbivores work harder.

    Chumps.

    In the not-too-distant future, the largest land mammals living outside of zoos will probably be for eating. It's not really worth debating the ethics of it, pissing in the wind for idealogical purposes is still pissing in the wind.

    I expect evangelistic veggies would be better served by trying to end cruelty against humans since they'll probably be around long enough for it to matter.

    voodoospork on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »

    Now multiply that by the amount that would be freed up by ending the use of cows.

    Artificial muscle tissue for consumption will replace much of it, but the industries surrounding beef byproducts won't be replaced and there will always be a demand for "real" beef and offal.
    If we can grow artificial beef, we can't be far off from growing artificial leather and marrow.

    That would basically turn cows into a luxury good, which is a completely sustainable option.

    I don't think it actually works out one to one that you pick up agricultural land as you diminish pasturage.

    Pasturage can work fine for land that isn't suitable for agriculture.
    There are some other good uses for land that isn't directly suitable for agriculture too, that aren't cow related.

    The nice thing about goods like cattle and other meat sources is that they can share space with other industries like wind energy or even oil wells. And while that makes them a lot more space adaptable than lab-grown meat, I would imagine they're also going to be a lot more space intensive.

    OptimusZed on
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    JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    Protein said in the OP that most of the vegan/vegetarians he had personally met were obnoxious militants about it.

    I hope by this point someone has pointed out that people who are vegetarians or vegans and aren't obnoxious about their preference will naturally not be bringing it to his attention. If you aren't being obnoxious about it, whether you are a vegetarian or not doesn't automatically come up in conversation.

    So his view of how obnoxious or not vegetarians/vegans are on average can't really be informed by personal experience.

    I think this is very true over just about any belief system that has a very strong evangelical wing - the ones you know about are loud, obnoxious pricks and most likely hypocrites in some way or another. They make the impression, because the people who aren't insane aren't affecting you one tiny little bit even if they make up the bulk of vegitarians/vegans/Mormons/cannibals.

    Well, maybe the cannibal could still be irritating. But they don't tend to evangelize much.

    JihadJesus on
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    Protein ShakesProtein Shakes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2010
    Speaker wrote: »
    Protein said in the OP that most of the vegan/vegetarians he had personally met were obnoxious militants about it.

    I hope by this point someone has pointed out that people who are vegetarians or vegans and aren't obnoxious about their preference will naturally not be bringing it to his attention. If you aren't being obnoxious about it, whether you are a vegetarian or not doesn't automatically come up in conversation.

    So his view of how obnoxious or not vegetarians/vegans are on average can't really be informed by personal experience.

    It is always brought to my attention when I inevitably hang out with them by going out to eat or inviting them over for lunch/dinner. I've actually met maybe two people who didn't say "im vegetarian/vegan" without an air of superiority and then, unprompted, went on to explain why. Either they really felt like they had to explain themselves (because I didn't ask why they were veg/s), or they were trying to use emotional blackmail to make me feel guilty about eating meat.

    Protein Shakes on
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    oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Sheep wrote: »

    This was your response to me comparing an asshole carnivore to an asshole vegetarian and putting them on the same level.

    I've had friends turn down meals because I don't cook with meat and they like meat. It really shouldn't be an issue if someone doesn't want to eat your food. "No thanks I'm really in the mood for chicken" doesn't make you a bad person. "No thanks I don't eat chicken" also doesn't make you a bad person.

    Unless you're dining with Victorian nobility I think its ok to say "no."

    Really? I think it's a little rude. I mean, not as rude as say, sleeping with your host's spouse, but a little rude nonetheless. Granted most people in our society will understand if a vegetarian turns down meat as vegetarianism is not uncommon.

    However, if I were to visit a third world country however and turn down the meal because of its content it would be a much bigger deal.

    oldsak on
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    OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    oldsak wrote: »
    However, if I were to visit a third world country however and turn down the meal because of its content it would be a much bigger deal.

    Very much varies by country. Many fully accept dietary restrictions for religious reasons (the tactful person would tailor their explanation accordingly), chances are they're following a few as well.

    And Protein Shakes, apparently you have really shitty acquaintances.

    Octoparrot on
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