Wow, BGs give pretty solid XP now. I hadn't done one in ages, so I started doing them on my 77 rogue tonight and it was fun and gave me like half a level by the time I'd been through 5 or 6 of them.
man this makes me so happy
Do you think leveling via PvP will be viable now? I loved doing that in WAR and I would love doing it in WoW
Yeah, it definitely is. I haven't been doing it because I like questing and seeing the world, but a bunch of guys in my rogue's guild have been doing almost nothing but PvP.
The big downside is that unless you plan on continuing to do nothing but PvP, you're going to be ghetto poor once you hit 80.
Heh. I just noticed that the GS addon gives negative points for the useless stats on stat enchants. Rogue with +10 stats on chest? That int and spirit counts against you!
Heh. I just noticed that the GS addon gives negative points for the useless stats on stat enchants. Rogue with +10 stats on chest? That int and spirit counts against you!
What's the ratio? Does it mean that it is equivalent to not having an enchant at all?
Cuz that'd be funny.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Heh. I just noticed that the GS addon gives negative points for the useless stats on stat enchants. Rogue with +10 stats on chest? That int and spirit counts against you!
What's the ratio? Does it mean that it is equivalent to not having an enchant at all?
Cuz that'd be funny.
Seems like it only does it on other players, if I use it on myself it doesn't give any negatives. And it's just -1%, so not much. And that's probably rounded up.
Having just recently gone through most of the BC dungeons, and almost all of them (save Hellfire) for the first time, I definitely feel like they are a lot harder and a lot less fun than the WotLK dungeons.
I can't speak for heroics, but man, I cannot believe how much wiping there was in those BC dungeons. It hasn't been a huge problem in WotLK, although there's a crazy amount of "Oh fuck this dungeon" drops at the beginning.
Forbidden Thundering Gauntlet of Unspeakable Cats
Breast Plate of the Exceptional Conjuration of the Green Lantern
Dwarven Leaders' Bracer of the Crazed Master's Witchery of Trickery
Yellow Coat of Metal Clouds
Cloak of the Conjuration of Gender-reversal Transformation
Lotion of the Drunken Necromancer
Massive Utensil of Agile Monks
Having just recently gone through most of the BC dungeons, and almost all of them (save Hellfire) for the first time, I definitely feel like they are a lot harder and a lot less fun than the WotLK dungeons.
I can't speak for heroics, but man, I cannot believe how much wiping there was in those BC dungeons. It hasn't been a huge problem in WotLK, although there's a crazy amount of "Oh fuck this dungeon" drops at the beginning.
That really only ever happened for heroic shadow labs. Getting a group for that when it was the daily could be a bitch sometimes. Of course it's possible someone had a bad experience once in instance X so whenever they random into that now with the new system they immediately trauma flashback and bail group instead of dealing with that emotional experience.
Personally I had a lot of bad experiences with H steam vaults so that's my "oh fuck this dungeon," but i still like most of the BC places and i'm sad that LFD skips you over the really cool last couple instances into UK
"Fuck this dungeon" becomes the prominent reaction now because of how quickly heroic groups are formed thanks to the dungeon tool. Without it, wipes would probably be more common and it would be harder to get a heroic group to begin with, like it was in TBC. Also, now, any dungeon can be the heroic daily, so if you don't like that particular one, you can drop and come back later. The gear-flation in WOTLK is pretty insane too. It was high in TBC also, but nearly as much. Here is the T4 gloves for feral druids: http://www.wowhead.com/item=29097 compared to the T6 gloves: http://www.wowhead.com/item=31034. Now here is T7 to T10: http://www.wowhead.com/item=39557 to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50827. TBC heroics were (are?) harder because it took longer to get upgrades, if any at all. Being able to buy T9/T10 with badges has greatly accelerated this.
"Fuck this dungeon" becomes the prominent reaction now because of how quickly heroic groups are formed thanks to the dungeon tool. Without it, wipes would probably be more common and it would be harder to get a heroic group to begin with, like it was in TBC. Also, now, any dungeon can be the heroic daily, so if you don't like that particular one, you can drop and come back later. The gear-flation in WOTLK is pretty insane too. It was high in TBC also, but nearly as much. Here is the T4 gloves for feral druids: http://www.wowhead.com/item=29097 compared to the T5 gloves: http://www.wowhead.com/item=30223. Now here is T7 to T10: http://www.wowhead.com/item=39557 to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50827. TBC heroics were (are?) harder because it took longer to get upgrades, if any at all.
While you are technically correct (the best kind of correct) about gear inflation, your examples are poor. If you're comparing T4 to T5 you need to compare T7 to T8. The difference in iLvl for TBC was 13 while in Wotlk it's 19.
"Fuck this dungeon" becomes the prominent reaction now because of how quickly heroic groups are formed thanks to the dungeon tool. Without it, wipes would probably be more common and it would be harder to get a heroic group to begin with, like it was in TBC. Also, now, any dungeon can be the heroic daily, so if you don't like that particular one, you can drop and come back later. The gear-flation in WOTLK is pretty insane too. It was high in TBC also, but nearly as much. Here is the T4 gloves for feral druids: http://www.wowhead.com/item=29097 compared to the T5 gloves: http://www.wowhead.com/item=30223. Now here is T7 to T10: http://www.wowhead.com/item=39557 to http://www.wowhead.com/item=50827. TBC heroics were (are?) harder because it took longer to get upgrades, if any at all.
While you are technically correct (the best kind of correct) about gear inflation, your examples are poor. If you're comparing T4 to T5 you need to compare T7 to T8. The difference in iLvl for TBC was 13 while in Wotlk it's 19.
I am comparing start of expansion tier to end of expansion tier. WOTLK did not end at T8.
If you wanted to talk about the expansion as a whole then you should have compared T4 to T6. The comparison of T4 to T5 made me think you meant tier-to-tier inflation instead. T1 to T3 was a 26 point difference, T4 to T6 was a 34 point difference (it matched Vanilla's 26 until Sunwell came out), and T7 to T10 is a 77. That means we basically went through two expansions' worth of gear in one expansion.
If what you personally mean by gear-flation is that more people have access to high level gear, then comparing tier is weird because tier is only purchasable by non-raiders in Wotlk. A better thing to do in that case would be to use the top ilvl purchaseable item as the comparison point. Basic heroic TBC gear was 110 ilvl vs the 146 ilvl of purchasable weapons: a 36 ilvl difference. In Wotlk basic heroic gear is ilvl 200 and people can purchase ilvl 264: a 64 ilvl difference. That's almost twice the difference than in TBC.
I like Wraths model better, I just wish there was more incentive to do hardmodes, than titles and mounts, and slightly better loot. I don't know what that could be.
But in BC I would say most people didn't get to experience most of the content. In wrath, nearly everyone gets to experience it at least somewhat. And being able to buy tier gear with heroics badges is not horrible. The hardcore raiders gear up much faster, because they are raiding, the casuals, gear up much slower, because they only get so many frosties per week (or triumphs or whatever) doing the easy stuff, but in the end they can actually pug every single raid instance. In BC the only pugs on my server I ever saw were for Kara, sometimes, and extremely rarely, ZA, and I got into every one I saw, and everyone wiped on eagle boss and called it quits. Maybe my server just sucked, but I prefer being able to pug into raids, rather than being completely excluded from content, because I'm not in a raiding guild.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Blizzard had no choice but to make getting raid capable gear easier. They had classed returning and new players right out of the game by Ul'duar. At least now, if you come back to the game after six months (or are new), you have a direct and clear path to catching up to your friends gear wise.
Yay, got one of those Pit of Saron groups where random parts of the group try to ride past the mob packs after Ick without telling the other parts of the group. Wiped, of course.
Yay, got one of those Pit of Saron groups where random parts of the group try to ride past the mob packs after Ick without telling the other parts of the group. Wiped, of course.
It's funny, people like to do this, but really, the fight takes what, 30-40 seconds? Why risk the wipe?
I've hit 5k GS, but tanking Heroic PoS / HoR is still a bitch and a half because of all the stupid shit. (And the frighteningly low dps coming out of 5.5k gs dudes at times)
I consider it a miracle every time a healer and tank don't vote-kick me for tanking everything. I once believed in holding back, but by now I figure it's better to just kill faster.
I consider it a miracle every time a healer and tank don't vote-kick me for tanking everything. I once believed in holding back, but by now I figure it's better to just kill faster.
My rule as a healer is "I don't care who tanks, but only one person gets to tank."
I will not tolerate bouncing aggro and massive hemorrhaging of all the dpsers every few seconds, at that point I'll vote to kick someone.
The problem with tanking vs a retridin is that not only his single target threat high (which I can get over easily), but he also AoE's, splitting my focus (runes). If another dps then bursts another target, then one of them may get loose.
Of course, DK tank so IT > your threat.
SanderJK on
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
Hmm, when did they add the high threat to Icy Touch? I've been away for a few months. Very needed addition regardless. Might play my DK tank again :P
Yeah Seal of Command owns most tanks. Every now and then I run into a feral tank in dps gear that can hold aggro, or a pally tank that has his head on right and I get to not play ping-pong with my health bar. My guild's warrior MT is pretty slick too at holding aggro on me, but he usually wears all threat gear in heroics.
Hmm, when did they add the high threat to Icy Touch? I've been away for a few months. Very needed addition regardless. Might play my DK tank again :P
In 3.3.3
Icy Touch now has a 7x threat multiplier, which is 14x in frost presence. A noncrit on a decent geared DK is 10-12k threat.
It's a bit overboard really.
Yeah Seal of Command owns most tanks. Every now and then I run into a feral tank in dps gear that can hold aggro, or a pally tank that has his head on right and I get to not play ping-pong with my health bar. My guild's warrior MT is pretty slick too at holding aggro on me, but he usually wears all threat gear in heroics.
As a tank myself, the question I have to ask is: Have you thought about just slowing down a tad? I know you said "well, kill faster, get done quicker"...admirable. But consider you're probably making the tanks life pretty miserable, as he's running around frantic trying to do his job. If your group doesn't care, whatever...but I know as a tank it always bothers me when someone can't woh it back just a little to make the whole thing smoother.
I find this especially true in random heroics where the gear levels can vary wildly across the group.
I've thought about it yes. And I thought about how when I tanked heroics all the time I didn't like it when dps held back. No one learns anything if everyone gets molly-coddled along the way. If dps pulled off me when I was tanking, I went and learned what to do different, or tried different things. And in the end, I can ret-tank most all heroics except the new ICC ones without any difficulties if the healer has a pulse, so what's the harm in just going faster?
Ret Paladins get 30% reduced threat, so if the tank is in similar gear to them, there is no reason you should be pulling agro. I could easily hold off you on my Paladin no doubt about it. I also have consecration, HotR, and Seal of Command. I could do it on my Warrior too, just because Revenge is stupid now that it hits two targets and I actually tab while i'm shield slamming/devastating.
Joshmvii on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
The issue for me is the varying gear levels. You can have a tank that knows exactly what to do, and be geared enough to tank that heroic, but be 1000-1500 GS behind some of the DPS. Happens to me all the time, as I quit for a while, and am still tanking in mostly Naxx gear (4000 GS). I can tank all the non-ICC heroics just fine, but if I get a DPS'er with 5000, 5500 GS, they can ping pong aggro on me pretty easy. My rotation is correct, and tight, and beyond gear upgrades there isn't much more I can do.
Not trying to crap on your play style, just trying to give the lesser geared tanks pov.
Eh, most tanks have difficulty holding off me in heroics past the duration of taunt. Other dps have 0 chance unless they get a head-start.
I can heal that situation. But much more often when a dps is consistently pulling aggro they don't keep it, and it starts to bounce. If it's bouncing between one retadin and a tank, fine, it's a heroic I can heal that for 20 minutes (though it is annoying). If it starts to bounce between casters and people start getting raped that's not OK.
But surely there is some way to tone down your threat to match the tank you are teamed with. This is your responsibility as a dps after all.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Christ, instances become INTERESTING when you have to fight for threat. On my warrior I like it when I have to pay attention, but it doesn't seem to happen often because he puts out absurd amounts of threat for some reason. On my shaman though I pull threat all the time, but I can also handle myself because I can kite knockback and heal myself. I feel like on my Ele shaman I could solo any trash pull that can be rooted at this point. Christ my Shaman has more armor than some tanks.
I don't ever have to fight for threat unless dps does something dumb anyway. I just make heroics interesting by pulling mass tons. I've gotten my heroic UK clear to under 11 minutes now.
Posts
Yeah, it definitely is. I haven't been doing it because I like questing and seeing the world, but a bunch of guys in my rogue's guild have been doing almost nothing but PvP.
The big downside is that unless you plan on continuing to do nothing but PvP, you're going to be ghetto poor once you hit 80.
What's the ratio? Does it mean that it is equivalent to not having an enchant at all?
Cuz that'd be funny.
Seems like it only does it on other players, if I use it on myself it doesn't give any negatives. And it's just -1%, so not much. And that's probably rounded up.
I think they use a system like Madlibs to naming items
I think they use the power of negative thinking.
This sounds pretty accurate.
I can't speak for heroics, but man, I cannot believe how much wiping there was in those BC dungeons. It hasn't been a huge problem in WotLK, although there's a crazy amount of "Oh fuck this dungeon" drops at the beginning.
Breast Plate of the Exceptional Conjuration of the Green Lantern
Dwarven Leaders' Bracer of the Crazed Master's Witchery of Trickery
Yellow Coat of Metal Clouds
Cloak of the Conjuration of Gender-reversal Transformation
Lotion of the Drunken Necromancer
Massive Utensil of Agile Monks
Someone with a twisted sense of humor.
That really only ever happened for heroic shadow labs. Getting a group for that when it was the daily could be a bitch sometimes. Of course it's possible someone had a bad experience once in instance X so whenever they random into that now with the new system they immediately trauma flashback and bail group instead of dealing with that emotional experience.
Personally I had a lot of bad experiences with H steam vaults so that's my "oh fuck this dungeon," but i still like most of the BC places and i'm sad that LFD skips you over the really cool last couple instances into UK
Fucking Ogre boss was stupid if you were melee heavy and didn't have a Paladin healer. Fuck that boss and all of you who enjoyed him.
Time for fun!
I am comparing start of expansion tier to end of expansion tier. WOTLK did not end at T8.
If what you personally mean by gear-flation is that more people have access to high level gear, then comparing tier is weird because tier is only purchasable by non-raiders in Wotlk. A better thing to do in that case would be to use the top ilvl purchaseable item as the comparison point. Basic heroic TBC gear was 110 ilvl vs the 146 ilvl of purchasable weapons: a 36 ilvl difference. In Wotlk basic heroic gear is ilvl 200 and people can purchase ilvl 264: a 64 ilvl difference. That's almost twice the difference than in TBC.
But in BC I would say most people didn't get to experience most of the content. In wrath, nearly everyone gets to experience it at least somewhat. And being able to buy tier gear with heroics badges is not horrible. The hardcore raiders gear up much faster, because they are raiding, the casuals, gear up much slower, because they only get so many frosties per week (or triumphs or whatever) doing the easy stuff, but in the end they can actually pug every single raid instance. In BC the only pugs on my server I ever saw were for Kara, sometimes, and extremely rarely, ZA, and I got into every one I saw, and everyone wiped on eagle boss and called it quits. Maybe my server just sucked, but I prefer being able to pug into raids, rather than being completely excluded from content, because I'm not in a raiding guild.
It's funny, people like to do this, but really, the fight takes what, 30-40 seconds? Why risk the wipe?
My rule as a healer is "I don't care who tanks, but only one person gets to tank."
I will not tolerate bouncing aggro and massive hemorrhaging of all the dpsers every few seconds, at that point I'll vote to kick someone.
Of course, DK tank so IT > your threat.
Icy Touch now has a 7x threat multiplier, which is 14x in frost presence. A noncrit on a decent geared DK is 10-12k threat.
It's a bit overboard really.
Icy Touch "spam" is pretty outrageous threat currently. For single target a DK that knows what he is doing is nigh untouchable on threat.
As a tank myself, the question I have to ask is: Have you thought about just slowing down a tad? I know you said "well, kill faster, get done quicker"...admirable. But consider you're probably making the tanks life pretty miserable, as he's running around frantic trying to do his job. If your group doesn't care, whatever...but I know as a tank it always bothers me when someone can't woh it back just a little to make the whole thing smoother.
I find this especially true in random heroics where the gear levels can vary wildly across the group.
Not trying to crap on your play style, just trying to give the lesser geared tanks pov.
I can heal that situation. But much more often when a dps is consistently pulling aggro they don't keep it, and it starts to bounce. If it's bouncing between one retadin and a tank, fine, it's a heroic I can heal that for 20 minutes (though it is annoying). If it starts to bounce between casters and people start getting raped that's not OK.
But surely there is some way to tone down your threat to match the tank you are teamed with. This is your responsibility as a dps after all.