I only do it when my wife is my healer, which is most of the time. If it's a pug healer I usually just feel them out for the first few pulls, then tell them to say if they need me to slow down. With my wife she knows I will pull 5 packs then shield wall and watch it all go down with AoE, but it can scare healers who don't know me, lol.
Yeah Seal of Command owns most tanks. Every now and then I run into a feral tank in dps gear that can hold aggro, or a pally tank that has his head on right and I get to not play ping-pong with my health bar. My guild's warrior MT is pretty slick too at holding aggro on me, but he usually wears all threat gear in heroics.
As a tank myself, the question I have to ask is: Have you thought about just slowing down a tad? I know you said "well, kill faster, get done quicker"...admirable. But consider you're probably making the tanks life pretty miserable, as he's running around frantic trying to do his job. If your group doesn't care, whatever...but I know as a tank it always bothers me when someone can't woh it back just a little to make the whole thing smoother.
I find this especially true in random heroics where the gear levels can vary wildly across the group.
It's really not hard to hold threat, and the guy is a ret paladin - AKA melee range - AKA the tank isn't running around anywhere, he is right next to the paladin... he just needs to use his threat skills better.
I'm a prot paladin so that probably isn't fair, though, because I just toss on my 250 dps wrathful weapon and other assorted dps gear for tanking heroics, because that's how it should be DONE
I don't ever have to fight for threat unless dps does something dumb anyway. I just make heroics interesting by pulling mass tons. I've gotten my heroic UK clear to under 11 minutes now.
I wish I would run into a tank that did that. They usually either pull one group at a time or try to pull a lot and I end up pulling aggro by healing and I get murdered.
I don't ever have to fight for threat unless dps does something dumb anyway. I just make heroics interesting by pulling mass tons. I've gotten my heroic UK clear to under 11 minutes now.
I wish I would run into a tank that did that. They usually either pull one group at a time or try to pull a lot and I end up pulling aggro by healing and I get murdered.
Wow, it has to be a tank with zero situational awareness to let a healer get agro. I mean, one tick of consecration is more than the healing threat from an average heal.
I'm a prot paladin so that probably isn't fair, though, because I just toss on my 250 dps wrathful weapon and other assorted dps gear for tanking heroics, because that's how it should be DONE
Prot Warriors, who have the least AoE threat don't have any problems keeping agro through AoE anymore if they do it right. I don't even use a dps weapon most of the time in heroics on mine, and just tclap/shockwave and tab revenge/shield slam/devastate is enough to easily hold agro. On my Paladin it's just a joke.
If I'm on my boomkin or lock in a random heroic, a lot of times there's caster mobs in some of the trash pulls that the tank doesn't pick up very well. Might hit with one tclap burst or something, but that's about it. I always pick out those casters and burst them down. I've yet to find one that can kill me before I can kill it, and I figure that those mobs nuking me is much better than them nuking the healer.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
If I'm on my boomkin or lock in a random heroic, a lot of times there's caster mobs in some of the trash pulls that the tank doesn't pick up very well. Might hit with one tclap burst or something, but that's about it. I always pick out those casters and burst them down. I've yet to find one that can kill me before I can kill it, and I figure that those mobs nuking me is much better than them nuking the healer.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
Any reasonable tank would not care about you doing any of them. I'd probably send you a tell calling you a badass for being so considerate with barkskinning and running into the AoE mobs. And yeah, soloing caster mobs is always appreciate too. If there is a class with a ranged interrupt like a mage or MM hunter that's even better if they'll use their interrupts, but that's not common.
I don't ever have to fight for threat unless dps does something dumb anyway. I just make heroics interesting by pulling mass tons. I've gotten my heroic UK clear to under 11 minutes now.
I wish I would run into a tank that did that. They usually either pull one group at a time or try to pull a lot and I end up pulling aggro by healing and I get murdered.
Wow, it has to be a tank with zero situational awareness to let a healer get agro. I mean, one tick of consecration is more than the healing threat from an average heal.
I'm a prot paladin so that probably isn't fair, though, because I just toss on my 250 dps wrathful weapon and other assorted dps gear for tanking heroics, because that's how it should be DONE
Prot Warriors, who have the least AoE threat don't have any problems keeping agro through AoE anymore if they do it right. I don't even use a dps weapon most of the time in heroics on mine, and just tclap/shockwave and tab revenge/shield slam/devastate is enough to easily hold agro. On my Paladin it's just a joke.
I had a tank let me die in ToC 5 by singlemindedly focusing on a single mob in the first boss fight and letting me die to the other two while all the melees gleefully stood in the poison.
After I died the ret pally healed them and they all survived. Words cannot describe my rage at that failtank.
That was around the time I started getting a lot more comfortable with allowing stupid dpsers to die. Now if they all want to stand in the poison, and the tank wants to tank in the poison, no one gets heals and I'll position myself to run out of the instance when they wipe. I'm a healer, not Jesus. I did not come to die for your fucking sins kkthxbb.
If I'm on my boomkin or lock in a random heroic, a lot of times there's caster mobs in some of the trash pulls that the tank doesn't pick up very well. Might hit with one tclap burst or something, but that's about it. I always pick out those casters and burst them down. I've yet to find one that can kill me before I can kill it, and I figure that those mobs nuking me is much better than them nuking the healer.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
Any reasonable tank would not care about you doing any of them. I'd probably send you a tell calling you a badass for being so considerate with barkskinning and running into the AoE mobs. And yeah, soloing caster mobs is always appreciate too. If there is a class with a ranged interrupt like a mage or MM hunter that's even better if they'll use their interrupts, but that's not common.
stopcast counterspell button is so boss, but there are some caster mobs even in easy heroics I really don't want extra threat on as I'm probably already near the top of the stack!
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
If I'm on my boomkin or lock in a random heroic, a lot of times there's caster mobs in some of the trash pulls that the tank doesn't pick up very well. Might hit with one tclap burst or something, but that's about it. I always pick out those casters and burst them down. I've yet to find one that can kill me before I can kill it, and I figure that those mobs nuking me is much better than them nuking the healer.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
While considerate, the reason they can't hold aggro is by running in you reduce the threat required for you to pull aggro by 30% due to being in melee range, just an FYI. I think many people forgot about that rule.
Not sure this is true. While bears' Swipe is easy AOE threat, it isn't much. 1K tps for me, usually, and all of their other multi-target threat-generating abilities hit 3 at most. Highly geared DPS can rip off of me with their AOEs if all I'm doing is maulswipe (which is all I really can with pulls of 4 or more).
I don't really know how Thunderclap/Shockwave compares to Swipe for threat, though.
DKs can have it pretty bad, depending on how long the fight lasts. It takes like 4 or so GCDs before a Blood DK is even set up to start generating AoE threat and then it's still a bit before it's from anything but DoTs. If the fights short, your threat will be pretty bad.
I find DPS usually pull off me cause they target a mob I'm not targetting and unload in the first 2 seconds of the fight while I'm still getting diseases up.
Of course, I just don't care. If DPS don't wanna watch their threat, they can tank. No skin off my back.
Not sure this is true. While bears' Swipe is easy AOE threat, it isn't much. 1K tps for me, usually, and all of their other multi-target threat-generating abilities hit 3 at most. Highly geared DPS can rip off of me with their AOEs if all I'm doing is maulswipe (which is all I really can with pulls of 4 or more).
I don't really know how Thunderclap/Shockwave compares to Swipe for threat, though.
I shouldn't have spoken for Bear tanks, as they're the only one I don't have to tank on yet. Swipe may very well be worse for AoE threat, though I'm inclined to believe from experience that Bears don't have any worse of a time than Warriors. You can swipe every GCD and with glyphed Maul you're hitting 2 targets there for more damage too. TClap is once every 4 GCDs, and Shockwave is usually once per pull. Swipe is every GCD.
If I'm on my boomkin or lock in a random heroic, a lot of times there's caster mobs in some of the trash pulls that the tank doesn't pick up very well. Might hit with one tclap burst or something, but that's about it. I always pick out those casters and burst them down. I've yet to find one that can kill me before I can kill it, and I figure that those mobs nuking me is much better than them nuking the healer.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
While considerate, the reason they can't hold aggro is by running in you reduce the threat required for you to pull aggro by 30% due to being in melee range, just an FYI. I think many people forgot about that rule.
It's actually 20% difference. 110% to pull for melee, 130% for ranged, but your point stands.
Not sure this is true. While bears' Swipe is easy AOE threat, it isn't much. 1K tps for me, usually, and all of their other multi-target threat-generating abilities hit 3 at most. Highly geared DPS can rip off of me with their AOEs if all I'm doing is maulswipe (which is all I really can with pulls of 4 or more).
I don't really know how Thunderclap/Shockwave compares to Swipe for threat, though.
Swipe is fairly amazing if you are fully talented for it. IE you have the feral instinct and Master Shapeshifter.
Personally I just tank heroics on my druid in full DPS gear, but in bear spec. I tend to pull anywhere from 4.5-5k dps overall for the run, and I'd love to see the dps that could pull off me. My swipe hits for over 2k alone.
Can't speak with certainty since I stopped playing my druid a year ago, but I had the same leather armor pieces in both my tank and DPS sets. Rings, necklace and trinkets got swapped around, they're more important for tanking.
When a Druid tank is talking about tanking in their 'DPS' gear, they're talking about their weapon, jewellry, and trinkets that are for DPS instead of tanking, and if they have a full cat set of gear it would be gemmed with AGI or whatever instead of STAM.
So I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to this, but how easy is obtaining Heirloom gear? I don't know the first thing about it
It'll make grinding through stuff much easier on other characters.
Three ways to get it:
Buy it with the lowest ranking dungeon emblems, the vendor is in Dalaran next to the rest of the emblem guys.
Buy it with Champion's Seals, in Argent Tournament area. This requires a bunch of reputation nonsense though.
Buy them with Stonekeeper's shards in Wintergrasp. There's PvP versions of a lot of the items, I can't speak for how well they compare for grinding, but if you're swimming in Stonekeeper shards, it's worth grabbing a few there.
There's also some BoA enchants and stuff scattered around Northrend factions, and a BoA ring that gives another 5% XP that you can get for winning the fishing derby.
So I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to this, but how easy is obtaining Heirloom gear? I don't know the first thing about it
It'll make grinding through stuff much easier on other characters.
Well when you are willing to turn Emblems of Triumph into heirloom gear you are looking at 40 emblems each for Chest and Shoulders. Or you can use Seals of the Champion from Tournament Dailies/heroic ToC, but for that you need exalted with Argent Crusade and being a tournament champion. And they take more seals then emblems.
You can get shoulders and weapons with resilience for Stoneshards from controlling and questing in Winterspring.
All are pretty easy to get if you are willing to grind the emblems/seals/shards.
So I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to this, but how easy is obtaining Heirloom gear? I don't know the first thing about it
It'll make grinding through stuff much easier on other characters.
3 ways
You buy heirlooms with emblems of heroism, which you can downrank triumphs down to. You'd get them primarily from heroics, but also from pre ICC raids. All heirlooms can be bought this way
You can buy them with Stone Keeper's Shards which you get from killing heroic bosses while your faction controls Wintergrasp. You can buy shoulders and weapons this way.
You can buy the same ones that badges can buy with Champion's Seals, but this is a crazy way to get them because seals are much slower to get than badges and they cost a lot of seals.
Basically you get a character to 80 and then do heroics until you have enough badges. If you have an 80 tank this will be faster as you get instant queues.
Ah, okay, so it's still a ways out. My 20 will get to 80 one of these months
Is the gear definitely worth it, though? I hear it retrogrades with your level, and automatically gets stat upgrades depending on your level. If so, that's
Ah, okay, so it's still a ways out. My 20 will get to 80 one of these months
Is the gear definitely worth it, though? I hear it retrogrades with your level, and automatically gets stat upgrades depending on your level. If so, that's
Yep, it levels with you. If you equip a heirloom at level 1, you won't replace it until past 80.
Ah, okay, so it's still a ways out. My 20 will get to 80 one of these months
Is the gear definitely worth it, though? I hear it retrogrades with your level, and automatically gets stat upgrades depending on your level. If so, that's
Yeah, it's awesome for gear dependent-types, since it means having say, max DPS on your weapons all the time. They function at about the level of a good blue item for your level.
Also, since the shoulders and chest give bonus XP, that means faster leveling.
I probably didn't go as fast as I could have and just hit 80 with my rogue in 5d19h using both BoA stuff for the 20% XP boost.
Ah, okay, so it's still a ways out. My 20 will get to 80 one of these months
Is the gear definitely worth it, though? I hear it retrogrades with your level, and automatically gets stat upgrades depending on your level. If so, that's
Yes it does level up with you as you level and the +10% exp times two is pretty nice for leveling up alts.
As for enchants, it seems that only enchants that can go on level 1 items will go on the heirloom items.
Heirlooms are nice even for non-gear dependent classes (casters) since heirlooms are the only decent way to get spellpower before 60. I have a set of shoulders(pvp)+chest for each class of gear (cloth/leather/etc) and at least two weapons (dagger, staff). All obtained with stone keeper shards and champion's seals.
Heirlooms are nice even for non-gear dependent classes (casters) since heirlooms are the only decent way to get spellpower before 60. I have a set of shoulders(pvp)+chest for each class of gear (cloth/leather/etc) and at least two weapons (dagger, staff). All obtained with stone keeper shards and champion's seals.
Plus double caster trinkets means never running out of mana.
When a Druid tank is talking about tanking in their 'DPS' gear, they're talking about their weapon, jewellry, and trinkets that are for DPS instead of tanking, and if they have a full cat set of gear it would be gemmed with AGI or whatever instead of STAM.
also I cannot stress enough how good getting a piece with a socket in it is if you are a JCer. you can use dragon eye's phenominally early for a gigantic stat boost while getting those last few levels.
I wore a green hat from sixty something to 79 because of gems. It was stat wise the best until a very late quest blue.
also I cannot stress enough how good getting a piece with a socket in it is if you are a JCer. you can use dragon eye's phenominally early for a gigantic stat boost while getting those last few levels.
I wore a green hat from sixty something to 79 because of gems. It was stat wise the best until a very late quest blue.
There's at least one quest reward in Zangarmarsh that is a helm with 3 gem slots. My rogue was sitting pretty with that one for a long time.
also I cannot stress enough how good getting a piece with a socket in it is if you are a JCer. you can use dragon eye's phenominally early for a gigantic stat boost while getting those last few levels.
I wore a green hat from sixty something to 79 because of gems. It was stat wise the best until a very late quest blue.
There's at least one quest reward in Zangarmarsh that is a helm with 3 gem slots. My rogue was sitting pretty with that one for a long time.
When a Druid tank is talking about tanking in their 'DPS' gear, they're talking about their weapon, jewellry, and trinkets that are for DPS instead of tanking, and if they have a full cat set of gear it would be gemmed with AGI or whatever instead of STAM.
wouldnt' that be arp not agi?
As I said, agi or whatever, because I don't know what cats gem for these days. Druid is one of the few classes I'm leaving until Cata to level.
Posts
It's really not hard to hold threat, and the guy is a ret paladin - AKA melee range - AKA the tank isn't running around anywhere, he is right next to the paladin... he just needs to use his threat skills better.
I'm a prot paladin so that probably isn't fair, though, because I just toss on my 250 dps wrathful weapon and other assorted dps gear for tanking heroics, because that's how it should be DONE
I wish I would run into a tank that did that. They usually either pull one group at a time or try to pull a lot and I end up pulling aggro by healing and I get murdered.
Wow, it has to be a tank with zero situational awareness to let a healer get agro. I mean, one tick of consecration is more than the healing threat from an average heal.
Prot Warriors, who have the least AoE threat don't have any problems keeping agro through AoE anymore if they do it right. I don't even use a dps weapon most of the time in heroics on mine, and just tclap/shockwave and tab revenge/shield slam/devastate is enough to easily hold agro. On my Paladin it's just a joke.
Also most tanks seem to have trouble holding agro on me when I starfall + hurricane a trash pull, but thats ok cause I pop barkskin before I do that, and run right into the trash pull so they don't run all over the fucking place trying to get me.
Although in the last hUP I got the well geared tank was being a real wuss in the gauntlet, so I just ran ahead, pulled all the remaining mobs, barkskin -> starfall -> hurricane, collected 3 spears and dropped(as in got him on the ground.. not solo'd him) skadi before the group even realized what happened
Any reasonable tank would not care about you doing any of them. I'd probably send you a tell calling you a badass for being so considerate with barkskinning and running into the AoE mobs.
I had a tank let me die in ToC 5 by singlemindedly focusing on a single mob in the first boss fight and letting me die to the other two while all the melees gleefully stood in the poison.
After I died the ret pally healed them and they all survived. Words cannot describe my rage at that failtank.
That was around the time I started getting a lot more comfortable with allowing stupid dpsers to die. Now if they all want to stand in the poison, and the tank wants to tank in the poison, no one gets heals and I'll position myself to run out of the instance when they wipe. I'm a healer, not Jesus. I did not come to die for your fucking sins kkthxbb.
stopcast counterspell button is so boss, but there are some caster mobs even in easy heroics I really don't want extra threat on as I'm probably already near the top of the stack!
While considerate, the reason they can't hold aggro is by running in you reduce the threat required for you to pull aggro by 30% due to being in melee range, just an FYI. I think many people forgot about that rule.
Not sure this is true. While bears' Swipe is easy AOE threat, it isn't much. 1K tps for me, usually, and all of their other multi-target threat-generating abilities hit 3 at most. Highly geared DPS can rip off of me with their AOEs if all I'm doing is maulswipe (which is all I really can with pulls of 4 or more).
I don't really know how Thunderclap/Shockwave compares to Swipe for threat, though.
I find DPS usually pull off me cause they target a mob I'm not targetting and unload in the first 2 seconds of the fight while I'm still getting diseases up.
Of course, I just don't care. If DPS don't wanna watch their threat, they can tank. No skin off my back.
I shouldn't have spoken for Bear tanks, as they're the only one I don't have to tank on yet. Swipe may very well be worse for AoE threat, though I'm inclined to believe from experience that Bears don't have any worse of a time than Warriors. You can swipe every GCD and with glyphed Maul you're hitting 2 targets there for more damage too. TClap is once every 4 GCDs, and Shockwave is usually once per pull. Swipe is every GCD.
It's actually 20% difference. 110% to pull for melee, 130% for ranged, but your point stands.
Oh, we definitely do.
Swipe is fairly amazing if you are fully talented for it. IE you have the feral instinct and Master Shapeshifter.
Personally I just tank heroics on my druid in full DPS gear, but in bear spec. I tend to pull anywhere from 4.5-5k dps overall for the run, and I'd love to see the dps that could pull off me. My swipe hits for over 2k alone.
It'll make grinding through stuff much easier on other characters.
Three ways to get it:
Buy it with the lowest ranking dungeon emblems, the vendor is in Dalaran next to the rest of the emblem guys.
Buy it with Champion's Seals, in Argent Tournament area. This requires a bunch of reputation nonsense though.
Buy them with Stonekeeper's shards in Wintergrasp. There's PvP versions of a lot of the items, I can't speak for how well they compare for grinding, but if you're swimming in Stonekeeper shards, it's worth grabbing a few there.
There's also some BoA enchants and stuff scattered around Northrend factions, and a BoA ring that gives another 5% XP that you can get for winning the fishing derby.
Well when you are willing to turn Emblems of Triumph into heirloom gear you are looking at 40 emblems each for Chest and Shoulders. Or you can use Seals of the Champion from Tournament Dailies/heroic ToC, but for that you need exalted with Argent Crusade and being a tournament champion. And they take more seals then emblems.
You can get shoulders and weapons with resilience for Stoneshards from controlling and questing in Winterspring.
All are pretty easy to get if you are willing to grind the emblems/seals/shards.
3 ways
You buy heirlooms with emblems of heroism, which you can downrank triumphs down to. You'd get them primarily from heroics, but also from pre ICC raids. All heirlooms can be bought this way
You can buy them with Stone Keeper's Shards which you get from killing heroic bosses while your faction controls Wintergrasp. You can buy shoulders and weapons this way.
You can buy the same ones that badges can buy with Champion's Seals, but this is a crazy way to get them because seals are much slower to get than badges and they cost a lot of seals.
Basically you get a character to 80 and then do heroics until you have enough badges. If you have an 80 tank this will be faster as you get instant queues.
Is the gear definitely worth it, though? I hear it retrogrades with your level, and automatically gets stat upgrades depending on your level. If so, that's
Yep, it levels with you. If you equip a heirloom at level 1, you won't replace it until past 80.
Yeah, it's awesome for gear dependent-types, since it means having say, max DPS on your weapons all the time. They function at about the level of a good blue item for your level.
Also, since the shoulders and chest give bonus XP, that means faster leveling.
I probably didn't go as fast as I could have and just hit 80 with my rogue in 5d19h using both BoA stuff for the 20% XP boost.
Yes it does level up with you as you level and the +10% exp times two is pretty nice for leveling up alts.
As for enchants, it seems that only enchants that can go on level 1 items will go on the heirloom items.
Plus double caster trinkets means never running out of mana.
wouldnt' that be arp not agi?
I wore a green hat from sixty something to 79 because of gems. It was stat wise the best until a very late quest blue.
There's at least one quest reward in Zangarmarsh that is a helm with 3 gem slots. My rogue was sitting pretty with that one for a long time.
Yep, the clothie version is in the woods zone.
All tanks can use DPS gear.
I tank heroics on my warrior in full furious as arms spec using a two-hander. No wipes, no stops, no problem.
Someone who knows you Gev.
Knows you very well.
As I said, agi or whatever, because I don't know what cats gem for these days. Druid is one of the few classes I'm leaving until Cata to level.