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Street Fighter: Demon Armageddon, coolest ultra.

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Posts

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    it's mostly her cannon strike thing that's driving me nuts. If it was as easy as cammy's TK i would be in business.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Up>half circle>K

    Just practice it and it's easy as pie. I learnt it faster than cammy's TKCS.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Hmm, that's easy enough, is it just as close to the ground when doing it TK style?

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    No, you can't do it as low as cammy's. Doing up forward>half circle> K should give you the right timing though. Check out practice mode to get a feel for it.

    Do upforward btw.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    ah yeah i know it's not as fast as cammy's just wondering if it's possible to get off on the first possbile frame using that method... i guess if you're super fast :/

    either way it will be more reliable than the TK method.

    edit: ah yes, i'm getting it pretty deep into ryu's head with LK. I just gotta be really fast, which is good i guess, because fast isn't a problem in actual matches, delays are really hard though :P

    hmm yes, mk spike, hp xx hp whateverthatpunch is for 268 damage is noice.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • BarrabasBarrabas Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Page- wrote: »
    It's weird that in OTHER fighting games people consider pads an advantage for mash moves.

    You probably already know the reason why, but just in case, that's because in other fighting games mashing actually means mashing. Where in SFIV it means pianoing or sliding for the best results. Both of which are exceedingly difficult to impossible on a standard (4 button) pad.

    I honestly wish mashing actually meant mashing. I have a hard time doing the pianoing without accidentally having an EX move come out. I'll probably practice it more once I do a character for C to shining C that has a mash move.

    Barrabas on
    XBL - ErrorMacro1
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Play chun li.

    Character with probably the easiest mash move combo.

    Not to mention that if you accidentally do the EX version it's advantageous to you as long as you have U2.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Barrabas wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    It's weird that in OTHER fighting games people consider pads an advantage for mash moves.

    You probably already know the reason why, but just in case, that's because in other fighting games mashing actually means mashing. Where in SFIV it means pianoing or sliding for the best results. Both of which are exceedingly difficult to impossible on a standard (4 button) pad.

    I honestly wish mashing actually meant mashing. I have a hard time doing the pianoing without accidentally having an EX move come out. I'll probably practice it more once I do a character for C to shining C that has a mash move.

    I don't know. Five inputs is five inputs, regardless of the game or the method you use to get them.

    Page- on
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  • SeanronSeanron GlasgowRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I cringe when my friends g/f plays SSFIV with us, as she is a hardcore button masher. We're lucky if she's even looking what she's doing. She mashes so badly I'm afraid she'll snap my poor sixaxis in twain :(

    Seanron on
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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Barrabas wrote: »
    Page- wrote: »
    It's weird that in OTHER fighting games people consider pads an advantage for mash moves.

    You probably already know the reason why, but just in case, that's because in other fighting games mashing actually means mashing. Where in SFIV it means pianoing or sliding for the best results. Both of which are exceedingly difficult to impossible on a standard (4 button) pad.

    I honestly wish mashing actually meant mashing. I have a hard time doing the pianoing without accidentally having an EX move come out. I'll probably practice it more once I do a character for C to shining C that has a mash move.

    Super awesome tip for pianoing: press an extraneous button. This only helps if you're pianoing from the opposite input as your mash move as far as I can tell. So, par example, when I try and do Chun's c.fp xx legs, my inputs are: fp+lk, rh, lk, mk, rh.

    ChaosHat on
  • Page-Page- Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-2-TBtHW98

    This is a 7 input JF. People were breaking their wrists trying to do it on sticks. Now, with the right technique that shouldn't happen, but it's a lot easier on your hands if you can get it down on a pad.

    Page- on
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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yeah... I'm glad that I don't play any characters with just frames.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Linked from that video is a video of him doing it on a stick, which looks, in my opinion, MUCH easier and way more precise.

    I had fun in the lobby last night mostly, it's just frustrating losing, and then having to wait at least ten minutes to play again. I kept losing for whatever reason, and it's hard for me to actually learn anything when I get beat, then have to wait.

    I do need to figure out what it is that I'm doing wrong. There are a few people on this board that for whatever reason just consistently beat me, not necessarily by huge margins, but always win in the end. Maybe they know my patterns too well or something, but I need to take a look and see what I need to improve. I wish you could play back your last fight in a lobby while waiting for your turn so I could analyze it.

    Interestingly enough, I felt my Juri showed more promise/respectability than my Chun last night.

    ChaosHat on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I just realized today that I haven't even tried Cammy's CQC. I've seen too many videos of people picking that and then eating EX Tatsu. Even if you don't think you can connect U1 completely, it will at least win some matches with chip.

    God Capcom, why couldn't you have made it a command throw, or better yet, have the ultra flash and make it come out like a regular or EX Hooligan that could combo from canceled cannon spike or anything but a counter ultra

    joshofalltrades on
  • FuriousJodoFuriousJodo Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Biggest reason the counter Ultra's suck is that your opponent gets about half an hour to make sure he isn't doing a move when you throw it out.

    FuriousJodo on
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Really the only way to use them is if your opponent is jumping in and you just know they're going to try and cross you up or j.HK (although even then if you ultra too soon they'll just, you know, not press the button) or on tards who reversal every time they wake up, and then you just have to pray their reversal doesn't break armor.

    joshofalltrades on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Good ways to make counter ultras kinda not suck:

    1. Do not activate ultra flash unless there's a successful counter.
    2. Make the active frames longer or the recovery shorter. The recovery frames feels like it's 10X longer than the bloody active frames. :lol:

    Trying to catch people with it is pretty fun, though it usually means that I die. :(

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Good ways to make counter ultras kinda not suck:

    1. Do not activate ultra flash unless there's a successful counter.
    2. Make the active frames longer or the recovery shorter. The recovery frames feels like it's 10X longer than the bloody active frames. :lol:

    Trying to catch people with it is pretty fun, though it usually means that I die. :(

    3. Allow me to cancel out of it if it's clear that it won't hit

    joshofalltrades on
  • BarrabasBarrabas Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    When I see a Fei or Cammy with that Counter Ultra I do empty jump ins. Especially with Mak. Empty jump in they try and Ultra I get a free karakusa combo. I'm sure with someone good I would get my ass kicked terribly because I do this a bit too much.

    Edit: @ josh.

    No I don't like that. You should get punished for throwing out a bad counter Ultra. It's just that the way they work now is so bad it almost makes that seem like a good idea. I think Antihippy's first suggestion is the way to go.

    Barrabas on
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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    That's a good point actually. If abel can cancel out of his goddamn ridiculous (and very fun to use) U2 then counter ultras should be cancelable too.

    Seriously, abel's U2 is pretty much a far better counter ultra than the actual counter ultras.

    Also:

    4. Don't lose to armour breaks.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • aBlankaBlank Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Good ways to make counter ultras kinda not suck:

    1. Do not activate ultra flash unless there's a successful counter.
    2. Make the active frames longer or the recovery shorter. The recovery frames feels like it's 10X longer than the bloody active frames. :lol:

    Trying to catch people with it is pretty fun, though it usually means that I die. :(

    Not a fan of any of these ideas.

    How often do you eat Gouken's counter? Yeah, you bait it out some of the time but imagine eating Gouken's counter but dealing ULTRA LEVEL damage. That'd be insane.

    Also, counter ultras have 2.5x the amount of active frames that Gouken's counter does. It's got plenty of active frames. That's not the 'problem'. Problem is if someone doesn't take the bait, you have to sit through a long ass active frame where your opponent is NOT going to hit a button (or more likely, do a reversal ultra/armor breaker/throw) and then there's the recovery on top of that.


    I still think counter ultra's have some use (at least, fei longs). You shut down safe jump setups and make certain strings/resets unusable (or at least, risky).

    aBlank on
  • DaSniper91DaSniper91 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    so tasty to throw people out of their counter ultras then use chuns's taunt 1

    "Sorry!"

    DaSniper91 on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    aBlank wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Good ways to make counter ultras kinda not suck:

    1. Do not activate ultra flash unless there's a successful counter.
    2. Make the active frames longer or the recovery shorter. The recovery frames feels like it's 10X longer than the bloody active frames. :lol:

    Trying to catch people with it is pretty fun, though it usually means that I die. :(

    Not a fan of any of these ideas.

    How often do you eat Gouken's counter? Yeah, you bait it out some of the time but imagine eating Gouken's counter but dealing ULTRA LEVEL damage. That'd be insane.

    Also, counter ultras have 2.5x the amount of active frames that Gouken's counter does. It's got plenty of active frames. That's not the 'problem'. Problem is if someone doesn't take the bait, you have to sit through a long ass active frame where your opponent is NOT going to hit a button (or more likely, do a reversal ultra/armor breaker/throw) and then there's the recovery on top of that.


    I still think counter ultra's have some use (at least, fei longs). You shut down safe jump setups and make certain strings/resets unusable (or at least, risky).

    Problem is that it's not really doing the job it's supposed to do, which is punishing people for obvious patterns. And that's mostly because it gives you a huge warning sign that tells them not to do anything accept for the following: throw, use an armour breaker or wait a little longer and punish them during the long recovery period.

    Tone down the damage and keep the active frames, that's still okay with me, but right now it's too gimmicky to be really viable. Also, asking for them not to be beaten by armour breakers shouldn't be too unreasonable.

    And what's wrong with getting ultra level damage for something that's meant to be punishing others for stupid patterns? Ryu can punish with LP SRK to ultra if you do stupid jumps on him, seth can punish you for jumping ANYWHERE on the screen and also for throwing out fireballs using U1, el fuerte can do 500 damage if you do anything that's over -3 on block, and abel's U2 does pretty much the same thing as the counter ultras except being actually useful. Though to be fair he can't use it against crossups.

    edit: also, I haven't been countered at all so far against all the goukens I've faced, but that's probably more to do with player skill then anything else.

    I also haven't seen any of the really good goukens I've played actually using counter. But that's more due to me finding it a hard time to actually get in on good goukens. :lol:

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    If Abel can cancel his fuckawesome ultra there's absolutely no reason counter ultras shouldn't have cancel abilities too. As of now there's absolutely no reason to pick U2 for Cammy or Fei. Having an ultra where the worst thing that happens if you whiff is you lose your meter would be a slightly tempting reason to pick it, in addition to potentially shutting down rushdown characters who notice you have ultra and aren't willing to risk it.

    Every Fei I've ever gone up against who picked U2 was easy pickings. Every time the ultra flash came, I just responded with my own U1 in kind for free. They're terrible and everybody experienced with SSF4 knows it.

    joshofalltrades on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The problem with removing the ultra flash is what happens if you miss? Does your Ultra meter just disappear and absolutely nothing happened?

    Two ways I thought of improving it (maybe give one version to Fei Long and one to Cammy) are:

    1: Give them an alternate Ultra when they select U2 that is a grab (similar to how Blanka gets two Ultras when he picks U2, one for air and one ground). This version is done with the opposite motion and is a command throw with no armor. So if they do their Ultra you either need to hit them and hope they did the throw version so you break it, or do nothing and hope they did the counter version.

    2: Allow them to hold down one of the three buttons used to activate the Ultra for a limited duration and trigger the counter whenever they want by releasing that button (though it can't cancel so they can't release it during recovery frames or something, it would instead come out as soon as the recovery finished). This would give them a little more freedom with releasing the counter and even if they don't release it they get a few seconds to attack an opponent who is a bit more limited in how they can attack.

    Lars on
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Lars wrote: »
    The problem with removing the ultra flash is what happens if you miss? Does your Ultra meter just disappear and absolutely nothing happened?
    .

    That's the idea. Plus the waiting for a counter animation will still activate and it'll still have a recovery time, but this time it won't have a warning sign that says "HEY DON'T HIT ME K'?".

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    On the other hand, I've had a lot of luck with Cammy's U1. The only person I have had send me hate mail sent it to me when I comboed in to her U1 as they were falling. It was beautiful.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    TheStig wrote: »
    ah yeah i know it's not as fast as cammy's just wondering if it's possible to get off on the first possbile frame using that method... i guess if you're super fast :/

    either way it will be more reliable than the TK method.

    edit: ah yes, i'm getting it pretty deep into ryu's head with LK. I just gotta be really fast, which is good i guess, because fast isn't a problem in actual matches, delays are really hard though :P

    hmm yes, mk spike, hp xx hp whateverthatpunch is for 268 damage is noice.

    If you have solid timing, you can use IA MK Tsurugi to brutally punish tick throws and option-selects. You can do a simple no-meter MK Tsurugi --> FP --> FP Hayate for a huge chunk of damage (as you mentioned), and if you're sitting on Ultra or Super and Ultra you can do some brutal combos into Ultra. IIRC MK Tsurugi can combo directly into Ultra 1.

    HK Tsurugi is an untechable knockdown, EX Tsurugi is an untechable two-hit knockdown overhead.

    PotatoNinja on
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  • aBlankaBlank Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Lars wrote: »
    The problem with removing the ultra flash is what happens if you miss? Does your Ultra meter just disappear and absolutely nothing happened?

    That's what happens when Vega does his ultra and someone hits him before he reaches the wall.

    Problem is that it's not really doing the job it's supposed to do, which is punishing people for obvious patterns.

    It does this, it's just that the timing is strict. There's some prediction in it's ultra use, but you can't actually execute the ultra until they've already committed to a button press. In that case, it will work as 'intended'... the problem is it's incredibly strict timing.
    And that's mostly because it gives you a huge warning sign that tells them not to do anything accept for the following

    Again, when done "right" your opponent has already committed to a move. This in turn, makes the giant active frame window rather pointless but thems the breaks.
    And what's wrong with getting ultra level damage for something that's meant to be punishing others for stupid patterns?

    Everything is wrong about it. Ultra's in general is a horrible fucking mechanic that I hope doesn't end up in any other fighting game ever. Rewarding players for losing is stupid.



    Anyway, I'm not saying counter ultra's are "great" or even on par with other ultras... but I think you guys underestimate how fucking annoying a 'working' counter ultra would actually be. I'll gladly take the gimp version over an OP/always useful one (counter ultra that is).

    aBlank on
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I have an idea, and this might be crazy, but what if you could move and attack during the ultra? The counter gives you breathing room to pressure, which seems nice. You'd still have to be careful regarding getting armor broken, reversaled or thrown, but you could go full tilt during it otherwise.

    ChaosHat on
  • TheUnsane1TheUnsane1 PhiladelphiaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I disagree highly with the ultras are stupid arguement. Ultras with focus absorb doesn't reward losing it rewards using the mechanics the game has given. I personally think moves that can swing rounds are good for making games accessable to players of multiple skill levels. Can an ultra cheap you a round win some of the time? Absolutely. Can an ultra make you a dominating player that just takes over matches time and time again? Not likely.(vanilla sagat might prove otherwise but that was an issue more in the ultra design having it hit full off of anything)

    TheUnsane1 on
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  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Everything is wrong about it. Ultra's in general is a horrible fucking mechanic that I hope doesn't end up in any other fighting game ever. Rewarding players for losing is stupid.

    I agree with this completely. edit: well, not completely as TheUnsane said, getting ultra meter for FA absorbing is fair enough, but still. :P

    But yeah, capcom wants ultras to stay for SF4, and I'm just saying that if they want to include counters as ultras might as well get them right. As you said, the timing is strict, and when the timing is that strict and you have to predict it too it makes it very hard to use it as something other than a gimmick, not to mention it's beaten by armour breakers. Toning down the damage is fair enough for that.

    I honestly don't think that it would be broken.

    Antihippy on
    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • aBlankaBlank Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    You have to do a shit ton of FA'ing to get anywhere near an ultra level. I'm pretty confident in saying the majority of 'ultra stock' is gained through damage taken and not FA absorbing. It's a horrible mechanic that slows down the game and creates horrible habits for new/bad players. A part of me dies inside whenever someone randoms out an ultra (hit or not).

    (EDIT) re counters and armor breakers, I really don't see that as being a huge deal. It'd be nice to counter full screen headbutts/blanka balls I guess but it *does* beat reversals that weren't armor breakers to begin with (IE, reversal DP).

    aBlank on
  • shadydentistshadydentist Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yeah, I dislike how ultra-centered the game is. I feel like instead of nerfing damage from vanilla to Super, they should have kept Ultra damage about the same, but increased damage for everything else.

    shadydentist on
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  • TheUnsane1TheUnsane1 PhiladelphiaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    aBlank wrote: »
    You have to do a shit ton of FA'ing to get anywhere near an ultra level. I'm pretty confident in saying the majority of 'ultra stock' is gained through damage taken and not FA absorbing. It's a horrible mechanic that slows down the game and creates horrible habits for new/bad players. A part of me dies inside whenever someone randoms out an ultra (hit or not).

    As some one who considers himself to be something of a bad player I do agree that Ultras can make for bad habits but really anything that works a few times in a fighter can make for bad habits. I do all sorts of dumb shit know about it and honestly trying to change it still fall back into it. Things like cr. lp x2-3 cr. hk with basically every character in the game, things like jumping away from fireballs knowing full well it gets me hit about half or more of the time, and worst of all is complete lack of mixups I will go to the same 2 or 3 things over and over in matches.

    It's not a game design flaw it's a player flaw. I tend to go into lots of stategy based gaming with a sort of pre planned strategy that I have difficulty deviating from. It's not the games fault I don't adjust in time. It's a personal issue I as of yet have not really found out how to fix. This happens in everything from Chess, Magic the gathering, Table top gaming, to RTS, Puzzle games, Fighters, MMOs, RPGs. Until I am able to figure out a sollution to tunnel vision I am not likely to get dramatically better at any of these games honestly.

    TheUnsane1 on
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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Because noobs wouldn't just random super either. Ultras are not that bad a mechanic. In a match between evenly matched players will both get ultra. It's not as dumb as say, whiffing normals for super. That is dumb. I would prefer a faster building multilevel super bar, but it's not that bad.

    ChaosHat on
  • shadydentistshadydentist Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yes, but building super is hard, and the reward should be somewhat in line with the cost. As it is now, you rarely see supers from anyone, unless all their EX moves suck.

    shadydentist on
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  • Hiryu02Hiryu02 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Yeah, I'd much rather have the ultra mechanic as opposed to keepaway games for the first 20 seconds of a round, whiffing normals for meter.

    Ultras are fine, get over it. It's not like ultras rob you of the ability to completely murder an opponent. It's just another tool.

    Hiryu02 on
    Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
  • DunxcoDunxco Should get a suit Never skips breakfastRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I've been fighting the same guy for the past half an hour now. The same guy with about 3000 more BP/PP than me, and I don't feel I'm learning anything new, but it's the only match I can get, because I keep getting bloody "Unable to join session". This ain't fun or educational. :(

    Dunxco on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Besides, when you get hit by an ultra one of two things happens:

    *You die, which means your opponent got your health low enough that they earned their win by landing their ultra.
    *You don't die, which means you definitely now have enough meter for an Ultra of your own, and thus no excuse.

    Or the other option is their skill level is nowhere near yours and you simply jump over their Metsu Hadoken and keep punching them in the face like nothing happened.

    Lars on
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