So I've been stalking this doodle thread for about 5 years on and off. I need to stop lurking and start posting; my style's not exactly what is cool here, but nonetheless I've seen how regular posters have improved over time where I've been stagnant. Any feedback is welcome and I'll try to reciprocate the advice.
Basic outdoor study; maybe 15 minutes before I was freezing outside. I have some difficulty understanding colors on my screen when working outside.
Very generic main character. Pictured with and without weave. Hoping to do a turnaround (with 3/4 + back) for each planned character, in uniform and out. Hopefully next time without raping the "symmetry" function in sketchbook pro!
Idea here is 'Lazertag in an Aquarium', still working out the figure and how the weight should hit the ground
And this is my current issue; planning out a museum/tourist trap to set the story in. I want it to be a combination of the Cal Academy of Sciences, a generic observatory, and Moody Gardens in Galveston, TX. Modern museum architecture is so wonky nowadays, I'm not sure how to approach putting 2 spheres, one half dome, and two pyramids into one functioning building with a moat.
(*Let me know if I should resize or remove anything from the post I don't want to make a bad impression on you guys!)
Salsa on
"Someday-- that dish will be full of tasty, tasty salsa."
D-robots - thaks for elaborating. I get what you mean now in regards to the odd lighting. It just doesnt make sense logically!!!
Cant really go back and alter it, since the original lighting is done in pencil (acutally i can, but i cant be effed erasing all of it)
Though i am planning on doing some more drawings with the character, so i'll make note of all the points raised.
McGibs - I can see that gun design working for a stylised cartoony game. really good. pretty lighting
edit: i dont see anything wrong with the perspective, though im not exactly the best judge of that sort of thing
I understand how it works i guess, but I would think that the rope would need more room so stretch back, or if thats already cocked, the rope would look like it was under more stress.
Salsa, welcome to the forum. I like the generic main character, particularly the street version.
Dunno how many people here know this already, but tomorrow is essentially the last day of my full-time day job (I'm scaling back from 40+ hrs/week to no more than 12) to pursue my art career. I'll probably be posting 'round here more often once I get settled.
What with "quitting" being so close around the corner, I was feeling a little belligerent at the office today, so I did some doodlin'. Here are some dudes from this comic I read sometimes, you might recognize them:
I understand how it works i guess, but I would think that the rope would need more room so stretch back, or if thats already cocked, the rope would look like it was under more stress.
Well, it's a little cartoony and stubby (partly so it fits on the page), but depending on the construction of the bow, the draw length can vary greatly. The rigidity of the bow (especially steel ones, like this one) can mean it doesn't have to flex very much to still have enough energy to shoot a bolt (which are a lot shorter than arrows).
Remember, the bowstring isn't elastic at all. It's the bow arms that carry all the energy.
That makes sense. All the cross bows I've encountered, the bow would stretch back quite a bit, but i don't think I've ever seen a metal one. Thanks for explaining.
MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
I dunno, edward isn't looking the best, he's hardly even sexy anymore. This must be late in the twilight series after a century of bitching and moaning at the hands of Bella, and Edwards all "See it's this kind of bullshit is the reason I didn't want to turn you into a vampire in the first place! Errr...I love you?"
It concerns me that I know this much about twilight....stupid wife and her stupid obsession.
two illustration composition sketches - working from memory
couple of my more successful anatomy practices - using references
winter_combat_knight on
0
MustangArbiter of Unpopular OpinionsRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
Anthony I think your biggest downfall at the moment (apart from structure, but you already know that) is that you need to learn as much when to lay down a line as when NOT to lay down a line. There is very little about your drawings that are delicate, they feel like "John Rambo went to Art School and this is what he drew".
This one here is quite nice.
A) because the structural work is not too bad, and you didn't over illustrate the right hand side of the torso, though unfortunately you did with left anterior muscles, but still nice work. So yeah, try to pull back a little, sometimes it feels like your trying to use an iron will to force the drawing to be good. Need to let it flow a little more, that will also help with your figures looking so static as well. Remember the body flows, it's not a rigid object.
Agreed with Mustang...and I think the way you shade things could also contribute to the stiff feeling I get from your drawings. You work with very short, every-which-way strokes. Nothing flows around the masses that make up the figure...and you tend to add hard edges all over the place in your shadows when the edges should be softer...could also be because you do value "steps" in your shading, so it's kind of jarring.
Thanks for the positive comments and critiques. I do appreciate it.
What are some good ways to learn to shade delicately? I do still lifes on the weekend (mainly objects i find around the kitchen) and that has helped in some ways, but i'm struggling with technique.
My process for shading is i start with single lines with an HB and 4B (for the darker areas) gradually building up the drawing getting darker as i go. when im done, i go over it with a 2H to try and get a 'smooth' look.
I'll do some more tonight and consider your points and see if anyone can see any improvement.
What are some good ways to learn to shade delicately? I do still lifes on the weekend (mainly objects i find around the kitchen) and that has helped in some ways, but i'm struggling with technique.
My process for shading is i start with single lines with an HB and 4B (for the darker areas)gradually building up the drawing getting darker as i go. when im done, i go over it with a 2H to try and get a 'smooth' look.
Starting with an HB is good - it's got great versatility. Bringing in something as dark as a 4B that early is a bad idea (and because it's a softer lead, it's much more likely to smear and make everything look like crap pretty quickly).
To be honest, try to get as much out of the HB as possible. Learn to use a light touch, and learn to build with it (i.e. layering) strokes, rather than trying to go for the exact value you need right away. Hell, in this piece, I used an HB for 95% of everything. The only time I introduced a 2h or 2B (which was the darkest I used) was at the end, to just push the values further...but the values were almost entirely there already, from careful use of the HB.
Plum'd the last sentence because it's a toss-up for me. Personally I just blur my vision and go over the lighter spots with a soft touch of the HB, because in order to achieve the same soft look with a 2H, you have to press down a little harder. The other method (with the HB) I also think is just more precise. Still, using that method can be nice, in some cases...if your shading isn't in need of "evening out" too much. If certain areas in your shading are too uneven, too mottled in values, using the 2H to smooth things out won't work.
Try to get as much out of the HB as you possibly can, without having to press down very hard (because going over the same spot with a medium-to-hard lead will give the paper a slick surface, and not allow the softer B leads to stick to the paper). Layer, and when you layer, use slightly different angles, so your strokes aren't all obviously following one direction, and/or obviously messy.
In other words, don't go for the screen door "little squares" look, go for the "small, elongated diamonds" look. Don't cross your earlier strokes at 90 degree angles.
A few examples for my process on that piece:
In this 2nd one, above, I just blocked out my shadowed areas very loosely, somewhat suggesting where the darker parts might be. I do not emphasize the edges of these blocked-in areas, because I want them to fade later. I remember using a kneaded eraser a bit to soften the edges in the next step, if the edges were too strong. The lower half of the figure is one more step beyond what I've done on the top half.
In this next one - still only using an HB - I make the edges of the blocked-out shadows softer, and work on more of the subtleties in the midranges. "Technically", you're not supposed to jump in steps like that (there should've actually been a couple of other steps between, and I should've progressed with the whole piece at the same time...but I think I understand the process well enough to start rendering further on one part, and make my way down, without it being obvious that I've done so).
It was only after this entire piece was done in HB that I took my 2B and went in to the darkest areas and pushed them. I used the 2H very, very minimally in that last step above, with the HB. I may've used the 2H in other areas at the tail-end of things to smooth a few of the darker areas out more, but both the 2H and 2B were only very slightly used at all.
My hatching wasn't ideal, and I thought I could get away with some radically-angled strokes in some places, but the places I did do that are pretty obvious. (Don't do that).
Personally, I don't concern myself too much with how I actually put down value. No matter what you do, if you get the right values and edges it will look good. The real way to learn to draw well, is to learn to see well.
Personally, I don't concern myself too much with how I actually put down value. No matter what you do, if you get the right values and edges it will look good. The real way to learn to draw well, is to learn to see well.
Technique/process tweaks certainly can help, though...especially when one problem is "you went too dark too quickly, probably in part from using a 4B lead that early in the process". I don't know if repeating "learn how to see better" would change anything about WCK's process, to be honest.
Also, WCK, when you say "successful anatomy practice"...do you know what muscles you're drawing? You should really draw from muscle references (like...with the skin off) and study some anatomical diagrams and such...because it would really help you draw things more accurately.
I think it would help him if he listened. Do some studies of the asaro head. Not just to learn the planes of the head and face, but also to help you see values and edges.
What it comes down to, is WCK does not see what I see when I look at a photo of Rocky or MJ or whatever...and to be blunt what I see is a hell of a lot more accurate. He needs to learn how to break down images into abstractions in his mind so he can distance himself from what he is drawing and see it accurately. Otherwise all he is doing is layering lovely technique onto shitty drawing.
These things work for you ND because you have a well developed eye and you understand that you aren't looking at a person but just shapes and values. WCK doesn't see that, he still tries to outline everything and force every bit of information down the viewer's throat. He doesn't know when to hold back and when to push forward. His entire decision making process is skewed because he doesn't have the proper eye yet. And he won't until he really puts in the effort.
For most people on this forum I couldn't care less how they draw or approach drawing. But with WCK it is different. You can tell he is aiming for a high level of realism, and I think in order to get there he needs to take his friggin time and do some very very careful studies. This book WCK. Buy it, copy the drawings. Do not accept anything less than perfect copies from yourself. You will be very thankful by the end of it.
And oh shap, you're throwing Bargue at him? :P WCK - if you actually sit down and do any of these (and, I mean, they should take you much, much longer to finish than any of the drawings you usually do), that will certainly help you a huge amount. But you need patience...copying drawings from that book should not take you a day, or even a few days. I know people who've spent months on a single Bargue drawing, in an attempt to get their depiction as accurate as possible.
Yeah, honestly even I haven't done Bargue studies. It's not that they wouldn't help me, they would. But I got through most of the issues WCK is facing by being in an environment likes Watts Atelier, surrounded by good people showing me the way. Without that, I think Bargue is one of the best ways to go. And honestly, its more up your alley than mine, since I never work sight size, and you seem to work in it at least to a limited extent.
Yeah, honestly even I haven't done Bargue studies. It's not that they wouldn't help me, they would. But I got through most of the issues WCK is facing by being in an environment likes Watts Atelier, surrounded by good people showing me the way. Without that, I think Bargue is one of the best ways to go. And honestly, its more up your alley than mine, since I never work sight size, and you seem to work in it at least to a limited extent.
Yeah, I work in it some (since maybe two years ago, I think? Maybe only a year? I can't remember)...that's how I did the sculpture study that pops up in my sig every now and then...I think we spent a month or a month and a half on that...probably averaged 5-10 hours a week. I haven't done a Bargue copy either (aside from a quick overnight one - based off a simple sketch - we were assigned to do in that same class)...but I've wanted to.
Some people in the class found that length tedious, but I absolutely loved that I got to spend that much time perfecting every step of the process (about 2/3 of the way in, though, I was almost positive that the sculpture had shifted, even just a centimeter. Then at the end of that week it fell completely sideways in whatever hinged attachment it had at the back...and I don't think it was placed back perfectly, which is why I have issues with my finished product :P)......
...but hey, WCK - you won't have to deal with any of that, copying from a book!
Couple (three) 40 min doodles using 3CH to generate random, uh, subjects.
Substituted lyche for lynch somehow...
Sab on
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
So McGibs' painting videos inspired me to finally find a way to get angled brush strokes in Gimp. It ain't perfect, but for anyone else who might be interested, here's how to go about it.
Edit: Oh yes, custom brushes refused to change colors for me until I restarted Gimp; wanted to note that in case anybody had the same problem.
Posts
i get that
So I've been stalking this doodle thread for about 5 years on and off. I need to stop lurking and start posting; my style's not exactly what is cool here, but nonetheless I've seen how regular posters have improved over time where I've been stagnant. Any feedback is welcome and I'll try to reciprocate the advice.
Basic outdoor study; maybe 15 minutes before I was freezing outside. I have some difficulty understanding colors on my screen when working outside.
Very generic main character. Pictured with and without weave. Hoping to do a turnaround (with 3/4 + back) for each planned character, in uniform and out. Hopefully next time without raping the "symmetry" function in sketchbook pro!
Idea here is 'Lazertag in an Aquarium', still working out the figure and how the weight should hit the ground
And this is my current issue; planning out a museum/tourist trap to set the story in. I want it to be a combination of the Cal Academy of Sciences, a generic observatory, and Moody Gardens in Galveston, TX. Modern museum architecture is so wonky nowadays, I'm not sure how to approach putting 2 spheres, one half dome, and two pyramids into one functioning building with a moat.
(*Let me know if I should resize or remove anything from the post
D-robots - thaks for elaborating. I get what you mean now in regards to the odd lighting. It just doesnt make sense logically!!!
Cant really go back and alter it, since the original lighting is done in pencil (acutally i can, but i cant be effed erasing all of it)
Though i am planning on doing some more drawings with the character, so i'll make note of all the points raised.
McGibs - I can see that gun design working for a stylised cartoony game. really good. pretty lighting
edit: i dont see anything wrong with the perspective, though im not exactly the best judge of that sort of thing
iruka i think pulling the handle back cranks the bowstring back into place, and pops a new "round" of whatever the ammo is out of that chunky magazine
i hope that's what it is anyway, because i love that idea
edit: oh, that is already a thing? well you made it look cooler anyway
Webcomic Twitter Steam Wishlist SATAN
Salsa, welcome to the forum. I like the generic main character, particularly the street version.
What with "quitting" being so close around the corner, I was feeling a little belligerent at the office today, so I did some doodlin'. Here are some dudes from this comic I read sometimes, you might recognize them:
artistjeffc.tumblr.com http://www.etsy.com/shop/artistjeffc
@Lexxy: Super cute! Can you make a happy-time chibis of Fruit Fucker and Div? Actually, I might have to do that.
(+ sketch to be relevant to doodles. Just spat this out the stylus.. something very wrong with Coit Tower's shape here, need a ref next time)
Well, it's a little cartoony and stubby (partly so it fits on the page), but depending on the construction of the bow, the draw length can vary greatly. The rigidity of the bow (especially steel ones, like this one) can mean it doesn't have to flex very much to still have enough energy to shoot a bolt (which are a lot shorter than arrows).
Remember, the bowstring isn't elastic at all. It's the bow arms that carry all the energy.
This is just a batch of doodles. He handsome dude chest was referenced from some Deviantart stock.
edit: waking up to 2 new pages in the doodle thread makes me happy
Hmm! I've seen it. I can't unsee it!
bunch of doodles from last two days
two illustration composition sketches - working from memory
couple of my more successful anatomy practices - using references
This one here is quite nice.
A) because the structural work is not too bad, and
chico let me kiss your ass
something about the landscape in the first one doesn't seem right though
EDIT: Actually Chic, what the hell brush settings did you use on that last one? I would've sworn that was pencil when I first looked at it.
What are some good ways to learn to shade delicately? I do still lifes on the weekend (mainly objects i find around the kitchen) and that has helped in some ways, but i'm struggling with technique.
My process for shading is i start with single lines with an HB and 4B (for the darker areas) gradually building up the drawing getting darker as i go. when im done, i go over it with a 2H to try and get a 'smooth' look.
I'll do some more tonight and consider your points and see if anyone can see any improvement.
Starting with an HB is good - it's got great versatility. Bringing in something as dark as a 4B that early is a bad idea (and because it's a softer lead, it's much more likely to smear and make everything look like crap pretty quickly).
To be honest, try to get as much out of the HB as possible. Learn to use a light touch, and learn to build with it (i.e. layering) strokes, rather than trying to go for the exact value you need right away. Hell, in this piece, I used an HB for 95% of everything. The only time I introduced a 2h or 2B (which was the darkest I used) was at the end, to just push the values further...but the values were almost entirely there already, from careful use of the HB.
Plum'd the last sentence because it's a toss-up for me. Personally I just blur my vision and go over the lighter spots with a soft touch of the HB, because in order to achieve the same soft look with a 2H, you have to press down a little harder. The other method (with the HB) I also think is just more precise. Still, using that method can be nice, in some cases...if your shading isn't in need of "evening out" too much. If certain areas in your shading are too uneven, too mottled in values, using the 2H to smooth things out won't work.
Try to get as much out of the HB as you possibly can, without having to press down very hard (because going over the same spot with a medium-to-hard lead will give the paper a slick surface, and not allow the softer B leads to stick to the paper). Layer, and when you layer, use slightly different angles, so your strokes aren't all obviously following one direction, and/or obviously messy.
In other words, don't go for the screen door "little squares" look, go for the "small, elongated diamonds" look. Don't cross your earlier strokes at 90 degree angles.
A few examples for my process on that piece:
In this 2nd one, above, I just blocked out my shadowed areas very loosely, somewhat suggesting where the darker parts might be. I do not emphasize the edges of these blocked-in areas, because I want them to fade later. I remember using a kneaded eraser a bit to soften the edges in the next step, if the edges were too strong. The lower half of the figure is one more step beyond what I've done on the top half.
In this next one - still only using an HB - I make the edges of the blocked-out shadows softer, and work on more of the subtleties in the midranges. "Technically", you're not supposed to jump in steps like that (there should've actually been a couple of other steps between, and I should've progressed with the whole piece at the same time...but I think I understand the process well enough to start rendering further on one part, and make my way down, without it being obvious that I've done so).
It was only after this entire piece was done in HB that I took my 2B and went in to the darkest areas and pushed them. I used the 2H very, very minimally in that last step above, with the HB. I may've used the 2H in other areas at the tail-end of things to smooth a few of the darker areas out more, but both the 2H and 2B were only very slightly used at all.
My hatching wasn't ideal, and I thought I could get away with some radically-angled strokes in some places, but the places I did do that are pretty obvious. (Don't do that).
I sell special a double-hb art pencil that will make you good at art.
Technique/process tweaks certainly can help, though...especially when one problem is "you went too dark too quickly, probably in part from using a 4B lead that early in the process". I don't know if repeating "learn how to see better" would change anything about WCK's process, to be honest.
Also, WCK, when you say "successful anatomy practice"...do you know what muscles you're drawing? You should really draw from muscle references (like...with the skin off) and study some anatomical diagrams and such...because it would really help you draw things more accurately.
What it comes down to, is WCK does not see what I see when I look at a photo of Rocky or MJ or whatever...and to be blunt what I see is a hell of a lot more accurate. He needs to learn how to break down images into abstractions in his mind so he can distance himself from what he is drawing and see it accurately. Otherwise all he is doing is layering lovely technique onto shitty drawing.
These things work for you ND because you have a well developed eye and you understand that you aren't looking at a person but just shapes and values. WCK doesn't see that, he still tries to outline everything and force every bit of information down the viewer's throat. He doesn't know when to hold back and when to push forward. His entire decision making process is skewed because he doesn't have the proper eye yet. And he won't until he really puts in the effort.
For most people on this forum I couldn't care less how they draw or approach drawing. But with WCK it is different. You can tell he is aiming for a high level of realism, and I think in order to get there he needs to take his friggin time and do some very very careful studies. This book WCK. Buy it, copy the drawings. Do not accept anything less than perfect copies from yourself. You will be very thankful by the end of it.
And oh shap, you're throwing Bargue at him? :P WCK - if you actually sit down and do any of these (and, I mean, they should take you much, much longer to finish than any of the drawings you usually do), that will certainly help you a huge amount. But you need patience...copying drawings from that book should not take you a day, or even a few days. I know people who've spent months on a single Bargue drawing, in an attempt to get their depiction as accurate as possible.
Yeah, I work in it some (since maybe two years ago, I think? Maybe only a year? I can't remember)...that's how I did the sculpture study that pops up in my sig every now and then...I think we spent a month or a month and a half on that...probably averaged 5-10 hours a week. I haven't done a Bargue copy either (aside from a quick overnight one - based off a simple sketch - we were assigned to do in that same class)...but I've wanted to.
Some people in the class found that length tedious, but I absolutely loved that I got to spend that much time perfecting every step of the process (about 2/3 of the way in, though, I was almost positive that the sculpture had shifted, even just a centimeter. Then at the end of that week it fell completely sideways in whatever hinged attachment it had at the back...and I don't think it was placed back perfectly, which is why I have issues with my finished product :P)......
...but hey, WCK - you won't have to deal with any of that, copying from a book!
I fucking love you too
Substituted lyche for lynch somehow...
Edit: Oh yes, custom brushes refused to change colors for me until I restarted Gimp; wanted to note that in case anybody had the same problem.
And then I mucked about a bit.