Fall of the Samurai sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to it, and I barely ever play this game anymore. I'm not really interested in a Rome 2. The only thing about that period that interests me is the politics, but obviously Ta new Rome wouldn't include that.
I was hoping for Rome II, but this expansion er .. standalone title for Shogun II sounds interesting. Battles will likely be very one-sided though, as I'm curious to see how players fielding traditional samurai armies can even fare decently against European riflemen without taking heavy losses.
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I'm curious to see how players fielding traditional samurai armies can even fare decently against European riflemen without taking heavy losses.
Traditionally, I believe the answer to that is "not very well"
I think a lot will depend on how expensive riflemen are compared to traditional units. And cavalry could still do a number on riflemen if used appropriately. As a whole though, it was kind of a strange period in terms of warfare in Japan. Even the groups in favor of Western influence still had people that were lifelong swordsmen and such.
I'm curious to see how players fielding traditional samurai armies can even fare decently against western-trained riflemen without taking heavy losses.
Traditionally, I believe the answer to that is "not very well"
I think a lot will depend on how expensive riflemen are compared to traditional units. And cavalry could still do a number on riflemen if used appropriately. As a whole though, it was kind of a strange period in terms of warfare in Japan. Even the groups in favor of Western influence still had people that were lifelong swordsmen and such.
FTFY. Hell, they weren't all even European trained, if I'm remembering correctly (some instructors were Americans as well). The bulk were French (and maybe) German, I think.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "traditionalists" armies that opposed the Meiji Reforms, like the Tokugawa Shogunate, had guns too--and lots of them. The big issue was that they lacked the logistical organization the Imperial government had, especially when it came to replacing losses, and their firearms weren't quite as modern as those of the Imperial government, like their cannons and artillery--though the gap wasn't nearly as big as you might think.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "traditionalists" armies that opposed the Meiji Reforms, like the Tokugawa Shogunate, had guns too--and lots of them. The big issue was that they lacked the logistical organization the Imperial government had, especially when it came to replacing losses, and their firearms weren't quite as modern as those of the Imperial government, like their cannons and artillery--though the gap wasn't nearly as big as you might think.
Pretty much this.
Anyway, I liked the last expansion, so I'll probably give this one a chance.
Just get that awful Tom Cruise movie out of your mind.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "traditionalists" armies that opposed the Meiji Reforms, like the Tokugawa Shogunate, had guns too--and lots of them. The big issue was that they lacked the logistical organization the Imperial government had, especially when it came to replacing losses, and their firearms weren't quite as modern as those of the Imperial government, like their cannons and artillery--though the gap wasn't nearly as big as you might think.
Pretty much this.
Anyway, I liked the last expansion, so I'll probably give this one a chance.
Just get that awful Tom Cruise movie out of your mind.
Given how basic it would be to do this, and how much more balanced the game would be (versus a campaign where one side has all the gunpowder and the other has none of it), I expect them to do it (relative) justice.
So yeah, guys who want an early Empire/Shogun 2 crossover, you're not getting it. No European armies invading Japan (not without a gigantic fucking mod), Boxer Rebellion style. This will, again, be Japanese killing eachother (maybe some foreign mercenaries, which would be a nice touch) and relatively balanced. If it's the Boshin War, you're basically talking about both sides using "modernized" units--with European-style uniforms and firearms--alongside more traditional samurai units, just with the Emperor having access to more of them and the Shogunate less.
Given how basic it would be to do this, and how much more balanced the game would be (versus a campaign where one side has all the gunpowder and the other has none of it), I expect them to do it (relative) justice.
So yeah, guys who want an early Empire/Shogun 2 crossover, you're not getting it. No European armies invading Japan (not without a gigantic fucking mod), Boxer Rebellion style. This will, again, be Japanese killing eachother (maybe some foreign mercenaries, which would be a nice touch) and relatively balanced. If it's the Boshin War, you're basically talking about both sides using "modernized" units--with European-style uniforms and firearms--alongside more traditional samurai units, just with the Emperor having access to more of them and the Shogunate less.
I think they'll do it justice. While CA hasn't given me what I wanted (Imjin War. Or, if they were going to do 19th century, first Sino-Japanese War), they've given me cool stuff I didn't know I wanted. The medieval Japanese campaign came out of nowhere, and this Meiji era one looks pretty damn cool, too. Completely unexpected.
But yes, you are absolutely right that it shouldn't be a bunch of dudes with swords charging machine gun nests. If they get it right, it'll be a more modernized faction against a less so.
I think the shogun loyal forces had a better navy and the modern rifle men elements were made up of men trained by French military advisers rounded out by larger units of medieval samurai forces. The southern Clans like satsuma were smaller but fully switched over to riflemen and Gatling under British adviser training. the turning point was when the emperor formally sided with Satsuma and Choshu clans resulting in large defection from the Shogunate army to the "Imperial" faction and the Shogun pretty much going "screw this" and buggering off up north.
Rifle differences seem to have been most shogun forces having Gewar smoothbores (lower range less accurate) with 2000 modern french rifles gifted by Napoleon III. Contrasting with the more modern Minie muzzle loading rifles of the southern clans/Imperial forces.
Initially the Shogunate navy was better armed and equipped and won the initial naval engagements but this reversed as the Southern provinces received newer ships and defections.
Interesting war, and really I'm glad that they're covering little known wars. History is neat.
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I think the shogun loyal forces had a better navy and the modern rifle men elements were made up of men trained by French military advisers rounded out by larger units of medieval samurai forces. The southern Clans like satsuma were smaller but fully switched over to riflemen and Gatling under British adviser training. the turning point was when the emperor formally sided with Satsuma and Choshu clans resulting in large defection from the Shogunate army to the "Imperial" faction and the Shogun pretty much going "screw this" and buggering off up north.
Rifle differences seem to have been most shogun forces having Gewar smoothbores (lower range less accurate) with 2000 modern french rifles gifted by Napoleon III. Contrasting with the more modern Minie muzzle loading rifles of the southern clans/Imperial forces.
Initially the Shogunate navy was better armed and equipped and won the initial naval engagements but this reversed as the Southern provinces received newer ships and defections.
I can't say anything about naval engagements, but in the Bosin War, those forces in league with the Emperor used the French Minié as their backbone firearm, compared to the Shogunate, which had Gewehr smoothbores, which apparently were substantially inferior, from the beginning onwards.
I mean, the one's we've gotten so far are pretty sweet--Geisha, Shirabyōshi, ninjas, etc., are all very cool. But having it up to the mid 19th century opens a lot of room up for some real craziness.
This is basically the best expansion I could have hoped for. Using expansions as bookends to the original campaign - covering the periods before and after - is a brilliant idea, and I'm glad they're running with it.
It'd be interesting if we get foreign advisors as agents. Stationing foreign experts in forts to receive benefits to firearm production and/or usage would work well.
Maybe someone can enlighten me about these pesky Christians. I've opened trade with these barbarians, but I've only been given the chance to have a single port/quarter. Can I not have more than one port/quarter?
I converted my clan, put up a chapel in my capitol (Iga, since I'm Hattori), and have a Nanban Quarter in a nearby province. I have two other trade ports, and I could sure use that +conversion bonus from Nanban Ports/Quarters, but there is only the option to create Military Docks. So, what's the deal? Is it one Nanban Port-per-clan or something?
I was under the impression that converting and allowing the Nanban in would mean instant access to firepower, as well. Instead, I get some puny matchlocks and cannons at the province where I have the port. Still need to actually go and research proper gunpowder, then build the siege buildings to get me some big guns. Jesus has let me down.
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http://www.totalwar.com/shogun2/fall-of-the-samurai
I was hoping for Rome II, but this expansion er .. standalone title for Shogun II sounds interesting. Battles will likely be very one-sided though, as I'm curious to see how players fielding traditional samurai armies can even fare decently against European riflemen without taking heavy losses.
Traditionally, I believe the answer to that is "not very well"
I think a lot will depend on how expensive riflemen are compared to traditional units. And cavalry could still do a number on riflemen if used appropriately. As a whole though, it was kind of a strange period in terms of warfare in Japan. Even the groups in favor of Western influence still had people that were lifelong swordsmen and such.
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FTFY. Hell, they weren't all even European trained, if I'm remembering correctly (some instructors were Americans as well). The bulk were French (and maybe) German, I think.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "traditionalists" armies that opposed the Meiji Reforms, like the Tokugawa Shogunate, had guns too--and lots of them. The big issue was that they lacked the logistical organization the Imperial government had, especially when it came to replacing losses, and their firearms weren't quite as modern as those of the Imperial government, like their cannons and artillery--though the gap wasn't nearly as big as you might think.
Pretty much this.
Anyway, I liked the last expansion, so I'll probably give this one a chance.
Just get that awful Tom Cruise movie out of your mind.
Given how basic it would be to do this, and how much more balanced the game would be (versus a campaign where one side has all the gunpowder and the other has none of it), I expect them to do it (relative) justice.
So yeah, guys who want an early Empire/Shogun 2 crossover, you're not getting it. No European armies invading Japan (not without a gigantic fucking mod), Boxer Rebellion style. This will, again, be Japanese killing eachother (maybe some foreign mercenaries, which would be a nice touch) and relatively balanced. If it's the Boshin War, you're basically talking about both sides using "modernized" units--with European-style uniforms and firearms--alongside more traditional samurai units, just with the Emperor having access to more of them and the Shogunate less.
I think they'll do it justice. While CA hasn't given me what I wanted (Imjin War. Or, if they were going to do 19th century, first Sino-Japanese War), they've given me cool stuff I didn't know I wanted. The medieval Japanese campaign came out of nowhere, and this Meiji era one looks pretty damn cool, too. Completely unexpected.
But yes, you are absolutely right that it shouldn't be a bunch of dudes with swords charging machine gun nests. If they get it right, it'll be a more modernized faction against a less so.
Rifle differences seem to have been most shogun forces having Gewar smoothbores (lower range less accurate) with 2000 modern french rifles gifted by Napoleon III. Contrasting with the more modern Minie muzzle loading rifles of the southern clans/Imperial forces.
Initially the Shogunate navy was better armed and equipped and won the initial naval engagements but this reversed as the Southern provinces received newer ships and defections.
Interesting war, and really I'm glad that they're covering little known wars. History is neat.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
I can't say anything about naval engagements, but in the Bosin War, those forces in league with the Emperor used the French Minié as their backbone firearm, compared to the Shogunate, which had Gewehr smoothbores, which apparently were substantially inferior, from the beginning onwards.
I mean, the one's we've gotten so far are pretty sweet--Geisha, Shirabyōshi, ninjas, etc., are all very cool. But having it up to the mid 19th century opens a lot of room up for some real craziness.
It'd be interesting if we get foreign advisors as agents. Stationing foreign experts in forts to receive benefits to firearm production and/or usage would work well.
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Shut up, I can dream.
Lots and lots of guys with rifles, getting tore apart by giant Kouma.
I converted my clan, put up a chapel in my capitol (Iga, since I'm Hattori), and have a Nanban Quarter in a nearby province. I have two other trade ports, and I could sure use that +conversion bonus from Nanban Ports/Quarters, but there is only the option to create Military Docks. So, what's the deal? Is it one Nanban Port-per-clan or something?
I was under the impression that converting and allowing the Nanban in would mean instant access to firepower, as well. Instead, I get some puny matchlocks and cannons at the province where I have the port. Still need to actually go and research proper gunpowder, then build the siege buildings to get me some big guns. Jesus has let me down.