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The New, Mighty and Secretly Dark Avenging (and Defending) Thread!

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Posts

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Furu wrote:
    The Secret Service #1
    Mark Millar (W) Dave Gibbons (A)
    Variant Cover By Bryan Hitch
    From The Writer Of Kick-Ass And The Artist Of Watchmen Comes A Collaboration Decades In The Making. Says Millar:
    “Secret Service Is The Ramifications Of [How] America Is Struggling On The World Stage, Funding Is Being Seriously Undercut To Balance The Books And Some People Are Trying Their Best To Take Advantage Of The Fragile Global Situation. The Hero And Sidekick Guys Who Lead The Book Are, I Think, The Best Characters I’ve Written.”

    this isn't a solicit it's just Mark Millar talking about how awesome his dumb fucking book is

    Millar really needs to get over this America collapsing/America in ruins boner he's had for the past few years.

    TexiKen on
  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    now all I can think about is Mark Millar literally skullfucking the Statue of Liberty

    thanks TexiKen

    huntresssig.jpg
  • JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    TexiKen wrote:
    Daredevil is now becoming a hodgepodge of artists, which is what I didn't want to see happen to it. There's plenty of good artists out there, pick one to stay with Rivera, unless he's leaving too.

    I wouldn't call it a hodgepodge. Martin's doing the mini-crossover event and the other Daredevil issue is a .1 and those always tend to have a separate artist.

    As for Rivera, I wouldn't worry about him leaving anytime soon. I literally got an e-mail from him yesterday with him saying he's working on another issue right now and plans to stay on the book for the long haul. No specifics, of course, but it's something.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Arivia wrote:
    now all I can think about is Mark Millar literally skullfucking the Statue of Liberty

    thanks TexiKen

    My brain

    You have killed it

    Solar on
  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    Solar wrote:
    Arivia wrote:
    now all I can think about is Mark Millar literally skullfucking the Statue of Liberty

    thanks TexiKen

    My brain

    You have killed it

    glad to oblige

    huntresssig.jpg
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    TexiKen wrote:
    Daredevil is now becoming a hodgepodge of artists, which is what I didn't want to see happen to it. There's plenty of good artists out there, pick one to stay with Rivera, unless he's leaving too.

    Well, not really though.

    Kano just filled in on a two-part story, yeah. But Chechetto's doing #10, because he's doing the Punisher and Spider-Man crossover issues, too. And Khoi Pham's doing the .1 issue, but a lot of the .1 issues have had fill-in/guest artists. No doubt, it'd be nice if Rivera could do all of it, or at least another rotating artist, but he seems to be doing all the regular, non-crossover issues.

    That said, I do think that leading with Pham in the .1 issue, is a mistake. The guy really doesn't sell what kind of book Daredevil is, given his rather traditional superhero style.

    edit: Whoops, didn't see JyrenB's post.

    Munch on
  • JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    You said it better than I did, anyway, Munch.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    JyrenB wrote:
    TexiKen wrote:
    Daredevil is now becoming a hodgepodge of artists, which is what I didn't want to see happen to it. There's plenty of good artists out there, pick one to stay with Rivera, unless he's leaving too.

    I wouldn't call it a hodgepodge. Martin's doing the mini-crossover event and the other Daredevil issue is a .1 and those always tend to have a separate artist.

    As for Rivera, I wouldn't worry about him leaving anytime soon. I literally got an e-mail from him yesterday with him saying he's working on another issue right now and plans to stay on the book for the long haul. No specifics, of course, but it's something.

    Martin's not doing the Punisher/Spidey one, it's Checchetto, who is the Punisher artist. I liked that Marvel had two visually distinct artists on the book when it launched, but now it feels like you have Rivera still there, but Kano and Khoi Pham or Checcetto, while good artists, don't really offer anything new in terms of layouts or panel designs. I also don't think of all the books out there, that Daredevil needed a .1 issue, Marvel's going overboard with that quite a bit these days, but that's a subject for another time.

    edit: it just doesn't look right when of the next 5 issues since #7, only two will be drawn by the regular artist. And I don't think Martin leaving the book would have been a drop of the hat, spur of the moment type thing that would necessitate a few artists just to get the book out monthly. Someone mentioned Emma Rios as a replacement once, that would work well.

    TexiKen on
  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Puyallup WA Registered User regular
    Avengers Academy #28:
    • Guest-Starring The Runaways!
    • Romantic Sparks Fly Between An Academy Student And A Runaway! But Between Who?
    • Jurassic Fans Rejoice: An Appearance By Devil Dinosaur…And The Return Of Old Lace!
    • Plus: Will Nico, Chase, Victor, Klara, Karolina And Molly Finally Stop Running And Join The School?

    Runaways joining the school? Yes, please.

    PSN: MegaSpooky // 3DS: 3797-6276-7138
    Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    You know, I'm surprised nobody's relaunched Runaways as The Pride, yet. I've said before that I think the problem with the Runaways, is that they did all the running away they really could. I mean, the whole premise behind the characters, were that they were fleeing the evil of their parents, in both a literal and metaphorical sense. But, Brian Vaughan finished that story. It reached as definitive a conclusion as you could hope for. Joss Whedon and Terry Moore did what they could to utilize that concept, and move forward, but everyone could see it wasn't really working. Similarly, every attempt to utilize them as just another group of teen heroes, has felt utterly soulless and generic.

    What I'd like to see, is a return to the concept teased in Brian Vaughan's second volume, with the Runaways responding to the power vacuum left by their parents' departure. If I had my way, we'd see the Runaways become the preeminent criminal presence in Los Angeles, not out of evil, but simple necessity. They realize that they can't spend all their lives fighting the would-be supervillains and gangsters rising up around them, but they can control them. That could lead to an interesting new story, that could really play out as long as you'd like, with the kids fighting a back-and-forth war for criminal dominance. It'd take the characters to new places, too. How would Chase respond to money and power? How long would Karolina be able to keep blood off her hands? How would Nico shelter Molly and Klara from their new way of life? Imagine Xavin going deep-cover in a rival criminal organization, and rapidly getting in over her head. The whole thing could be one part Criminal, one part Runaways, and one part Supervillain Team-Up. Good people doing bad things, because not doing them would be worse.

    And more importantly, I think it'd continue the important theme of growing up. As a teenager, you reject your parents and their values, just as a matter of course. But as an adult, you begin to see why they did what they did. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but you understand. And sometimes, you find yourself becoming that which you rejected, earlier in life.

    I dunno. I think it'd be a shot in the arm to a franchise that has a ton of promise, but has unfortunately suffered from a lot of wheel-spinning in its last few incarnations.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    I like the idea of making them the Pride.

    I think Runaways is one of the best cases to use a trade style system, just to experiment with in the regular market. The Season Ones aren't made for the regular comic reader and are just retellings of established characters, there's no real data to go with. Runaways is a fan favorite series that you could generate some real data from. And you don't even have to break the bank to do this; get a solid B-team of creators like Zeb Wells & Patrick Scherberger to tell a story that is the equivalent of five or six issues, don't promote it until three months out so it doesn't get over exposed and people lose interest before it even hits and you have the story ready to go. If it does good sales in terms of breaking the top 10 with Diamond, and is able to have solid followup numbers over the months, you've got something to either continue or try with a bigger name property (Waid's current DD work would be a really good choice), or it doesn't work but you provided a newer property a third chance beyond random guest appearances where you put them on the cover of a book and then they don't show up until the last page and you wasted three bucks you deserved to be cancelled for that Daken.

    TexiKen on
  • spookymuffinspookymuffin ( ° ʖ ° ) Puyallup WA Registered User regular
    I can't see Molly Hayes as a villain. Everyone else, maybe.

    PSN: MegaSpooky // 3DS: 3797-6276-7138
    Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    Munch wrote:
    You know, I'm surprised nobody's relaunched Runaways as The Pride, yet. I've said before that I think the problem with the Runaways, is that they did all the running away they really could. I mean, the whole premise behind the characters, were that they were fleeing the evil of their parents, in both a literal and metaphorical sense. But, Brian Vaughan finished that story. It reached as definitive a conclusion as you could hope for. Joss Whedon and Terry Moore did what they could to utilize that concept, and move forward, but everyone could see it wasn't really working. Similarly, every attempt to utilize them as just another group of teen heroes, has felt utterly soulless and generic.

    What I'd like to see, is a return to the concept teased in Brian Vaughan's second volume, with the Runaways responding to the power vacuum left by their parents' departure. If I had my way, we'd see the Runaways become the preeminent criminal presence in Los Angeles, not out of evil, but simple necessity. They realize that they can't spend all their lives fighting the would-be supervillains and gangsters rising up around them, but they can control them. That could lead to an interesting new story, that could really play out as long as you'd like, with the kids fighting a back-and-forth war for criminal dominance. It'd take the characters to new places, too. How would Chase respond to money and power? How long would Karolina be able to keep blood off her hands? How would Nico shelter Molly and Klara from their new way of life? Imagine Xavin going deep-cover in a rival criminal organization, and rapidly getting in over her head. The whole thing could be one part Criminal, one part Runaways, and one part Supervillain Team-Up. Good people doing bad things, because not doing them would be worse.

    And more importantly, I think it'd continue the important theme of growing up. As a teenager, you reject your parents and their values, just as a matter of course. But as an adult, you begin to see why they did what they did. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but you understand. And sometimes, you find yourself becoming that which you rejected, earlier in life.

    I dunno. I think it'd be a shot in the arm to a franchise that has a ton of promise, but has unfortunately suffered from a lot of wheel-spinning in its last few incarnations.

    I like your idea but I'd keep them as heroes. Maybe for the initial run do it as a reversal of how Thunderbolts started. I like the idea of a good organization secretly controlling a bunch of bad guys.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Munch wrote:
    You know, I'm surprised nobody's relaunched Runaways as The Pride, yet. I've said before that I think the problem with the Runaways, is that they did all the running away they really could. I mean, the whole premise behind the characters, were that they were fleeing the evil of their parents, in both a literal and metaphorical sense. But, Brian Vaughan finished that story. It reached as definitive a conclusion as you could hope for. Joss Whedon and Terry Moore did what they could to utilize that concept, and move forward, but everyone could see it wasn't really working. Similarly, every attempt to utilize them as just another group of teen heroes, has felt utterly soulless and generic.

    What I'd like to see, is a return to the concept teased in Brian Vaughan's second volume, with the Runaways responding to the power vacuum left by their parents' departure. If I had my way, we'd see the Runaways become the preeminent criminal presence in Los Angeles, not out of evil, but simple necessity. They realize that they can't spend all their lives fighting the would-be supervillains and gangsters rising up around them, but they can control them. That could lead to an interesting new story, that could really play out as long as you'd like, with the kids fighting a back-and-forth war for criminal dominance. It'd take the characters to new places, too. How would Chase respond to money and power? How long would Karolina be able to keep blood off her hands? How would Nico shelter Molly and Klara from their new way of life? Imagine Xavin going deep-cover in a rival criminal organization, and rapidly getting in over her head. The whole thing could be one part Criminal, one part Runaways, and one part Supervillain Team-Up. Good people doing bad things, because not doing them would be worse.

    And more importantly, I think it'd continue the important theme of growing up. As a teenager, you reject your parents and their values, just as a matter of course. But as an adult, you begin to see why they did what they did. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but you understand. And sometimes, you find yourself becoming that which you rejected, earlier in life.

    I dunno. I think it'd be a shot in the arm to a franchise that has a ton of promise, but has unfortunately suffered from a lot of wheel-spinning in its last few incarnations.

    I like your idea but I'd keep them as heroes. Maybe for the initial run do it as a reversal of how Thunderbolts started. I like the idea of a good organization secretly controlling a bunch of bad guys.

    I think they tried that with the Agents Of Atlas.

  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    Ah yes, I forgot about that. It was also awesome.

  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Nobody remembers Agents of Atlas outside of GV, though :(

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    I think they tried that with the Agents Of Atlas.

    Yeah, that's what I was kind of getting at, with the whole Pride concept. Good guys pretending to be bad guys. But, there'd be a side of that whole thing where, when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back. Like, I think it'd be pretty easy for Chase to become a bit of a douche, when given money and power. And in at least one alternate future, Victor became a supervillain, so that would also give a writer something to explore.

    I love the Runaways, and wouldn't want to see anything done that'd break their characters. I'm just bummed that nobody really knows what to do with them anymore, and in a few years they may wind up as just another property languishing in obscurity.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Nobody remembers Agents of Atlas outside of GV, though :(

    I should have liked Agents of Atlas but I never did

    Just one of those things, I guess.

  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    I think the original Agents of Atlas mini-series still holds up, as a really strong, complete story.

    The second series that launched with Dark Reign, was really too mired in the events of the time. Too much Norman Osborn, Hulk, etc. I liked it, but Parker didn't push the heroes-masquerading-as-villains angle as hard as he could have. He didn't have much time to do so, granted, but that could have been a cool opportunity to explore supervillain culture, in the Marvel U.

    The third series was a good self-contained story, but focused entirely on the 3-D Man, who I literally could not give less of a shit about, even with Parker writing him, and Hardman drawing him.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Oh man fucking 3D man

    nobody cares about him at all. When he was in the Initiative I just wanted him to die so I didn't have to read about him any more. Should have been replaced with Armoury, who is totally cool (and if I ever get into the game I am bringing her back).

    Solar on
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    3D Man was such an asshole in the Initiative

    fucking killed Crusader

    CYpGAPn.png
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Secret Avengers 21.1 was easily the weakest thing I've read of Remender's time at Marvel. Clint seems to regress character-wise a few years simply to play up the more brash "my way or the highway" angle that disappeared when he took on being leader of the Thunderbolts, and Cap comes across as kind of a jerk who thinks just because he's Captain America he gets carte blanche. The story also takes place in another of those eastern european countries that are a dime a dozen in the Marvel Universe. The book just felt a bit all over the place, especially if you've followed the Avengers since Civil War.
    There is a scene where Clint says Avengers don't kill and is being 100% serious, but this is from the guy who went to go kill Osborn and killed oodles of Skrulls. I'm not saying he was wrong in doing that, just that it's a very clear notion of just ignoring the past three/four years.

    Max Fury is also in this book, who I could care less about and there was such an over the top use of America being a capitalist evil (especially coming from a Eastern European angle) that it kind of lost the punch Remender was going for.

    I also didn't understand the reasoning for having the infiltration be secret when the Avengers are given free reign around the world because SHIELD is a UN thing. And nowhere in the book does it say Bagalia isn't a part of the UN. In order to stop an assassination it would make much more sense to have the Avengers be front and center, but I don't know, the whole Steve in charge thing has kind of disappeared since Fear Itself.

    The New Masters of Evil are a nice bunch, I like Vengeance being evil Ghost Rider.

    And Zircher's art seems to be digital now, and not as good as I remember on his Thor work or Iron Man stuff with the Knauffs. I can notice a bit of layering or scaled down images, and he kind of picks and chooses where to add detail in panels, so it's a very mixed message. It's still good, but far from anything I've seen of his in the last ten years.

    TexiKen on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    I'll just echo what Tex said. I was greatly disappointed.

  • JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    I'll go the other way and say it was a lot of fun.

    I always like the Captain America/Hawkeye dynamic that Remender was going with. And Clint kind of always going back and forth with having an attitude or not, which I'm fine with. Maybe I'm just not as picky, but it was a fun read and kept me interested.

    Still, think it'll be better when we've got the whole team thing going on and with Gabriel Hardman's art.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Yeah I really enjoyed Secret Avengers 21.1

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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    At least Cap recognizes that he was being a dick. "Hey, remember how your drunk dad killed himself and your mom."

    "Fuck you" is the most diplomatic response that one should expect after saying something like that.

    Crimsondude on
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    I picked it up on kind of a whim, and I really liked it too.

    I haven't read Secret Avengers since Brubaker left. Should I pick up the Spencer Fear Itself issues or the Ellis run in trade to catch up, or are they skippable?

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    SA #16, 18, and 21 are the better ones, but only pick them up when they're on a 99 cent sale.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    Whatever happened with that dude they kidnapped in the final Brubaker issue?

    The guy who was above Max Fury in the Shadow Council hierarchy, and knew Cap from WWII?

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    John Steele?

    Still in custody, I think

    Fear Itself got in the way of continuing the Shadow Council thing, like the giant cancerous tumour that it was, and since then Ellis was mostly doing one shots. Now that we are going back to the Shadow Council, I think that we may see him again. Though it would have been nice if Brubaker could have stuck around to actually finish that story before passing it on to Remender. I can see why he didn't though, having to write six months of tie-ins before he could actually continue that story would have put me off too.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    At least Cap recognizes that he was being a dick. "Hey, remember how your drunk dad killed himself and your mom."

    "Fuck you" is the most diplomatic response that one should expect after saying something like that.
    Well he not only recognizes it, he was trying to be a dick.

    The whole speech was a giant test to see how far he could push Clint.

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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    Yes, but he even admitted that he pushed too far.

  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    Solar wrote:
    John Steele?

    Still in custody, I think

    Fear Itself got in the way of continuing the Shadow Council thing, like the giant cancerous tumour that it was, and since then Ellis was mostly doing one shots. Now that we are going back to the Shadow Council, I think that we may see him again. Though it would have been nice if Brubaker could have stuck around to actually finish that story before passing it on to Remender. I can see why he didn't though, having to write six months of tie-ins before he could actually continue that story would have put me off too.

    Ellis' one-shots were about the Shadow Council, though.

    huntresssig.jpg
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Arivia wrote:
    Solar wrote:
    John Steele?

    Still in custody, I think

    Fear Itself got in the way of continuing the Shadow Council thing, like the giant cancerous tumour that it was, and since then Ellis was mostly doing one shots. Now that we are going back to the Shadow Council, I think that we may see him again. Though it would have been nice if Brubaker could have stuck around to actually finish that story before passing it on to Remender. I can see why he didn't though, having to write six months of tie-ins before he could actually continue that story would have put me off too.

    Ellis' one-shots were about the Shadow Council, though.

    Ehhh

    sort of

    They didn't exactly advance the plot much other than "the shadow council is here! let's explode them!"

    And the best one was the one in Symkaria with those gangsters hyped up on Cthulhu bone powder and I can't remember the Shadow Council really being in that one at all, unless the gangsters were tenuously connected to them or wanted to buy stuff from them or whatever.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Yeah that was definitely the best of the lot

    the rest were either really weird or filled with lots of terrible characterization

    the Symkaria story also had the coolest Moon Knight outfit ever god damn

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah that Moon Knight costume was super-cool

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    CAPA2011010_cov_col.jpg
    I dig the new HYDRA uniforms

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  • TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    Designed by Gamora

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar | Warframe(PC): Turamb
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I like that they actually look like armor as opposed to a baggy jersey that they re-dyed

    it is very Stormtrooper-y

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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    It occurs to me that given that the organization is called Hydra, shouldn't their helmets look at least vaguely, I don't know, reptilian? Some sort of dragon's head touch, nothing too over the top, but aside from being green like Hydra mooks have always been those guys could be from any random generic evil organization. Wait, Hydra is pretty much the definition of a random generic evil organization.

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