But his boss said 'frequent smoke breaks' so it doesn't matter. We are taking the opinion of one side of the argument for complete fact when we have no idea.
If it were someone whose opinion and honesty I did not trust for some reason, I might question it. But I don't think Rank would lie about it. Sure, he may be a little biased by being the one who's on the opposite side, but I don't think he's going to outright lie and say he doesn't take extra breaks when he does.
And you'll note that pretty much everyone who's arguing with you is pretty much saying that non-productivity is a case-by-case thing, an individual thing, and cannot just be ascribed to 'because he's a smoker,' because frankly, it doesn't hold up.
And what if the case at his work is that SOME (NOT ALL) smokers take frequent smoke breaks. If he doesn't but others do then tough luck.
No.
If SOME (not all) smokers take frequent smoke breaks, then those individuals should be penalized, or everyone else, including the smokers who do not take frequent smoke breaks should be rewarded.
It is not 'tough luck.'
No, it is. Because it is easier to do that way. Like I said, cell phones got banned from my workplace because of a few people. It just happens. And we all thought it was unfair. In a perfect world, I guess you are right, but we probably wouldn't also have these problems.
guys, am i the only one who isn't like "rawr you suck no smoking break for you" and actually doesn't care for the idea of an employer basically monetarily rewarding his employees for sharing his view on a subject that has nothing to do with the workplace?
i mean shit
it's not much different than giving a pay raise but only to the employees who wear the same socks as you.
we have laws against that kind of discrimination where i live
i would assume the US does too, don't it?
Idealistically, you'd be absolutely right. The employer is trying to coerce his employees into taking on a form of behavior that is more acceptable to him, and supporting that act with convenient (and bullshit) reasoning.
It's pay discrimination, plain and simple.
Unfortunately, most people won't make that mental leap. They'll see it as "WTF I WANT MY SMOKE BREAKS THIS IS BS," in which case you'd have to argue that smoking, in fact, has no real impact on the quality of one's work.
Smoking does make the work environment less pleasant. Also, smokers raise the cost of health insurance by, you know, being unhealthy. The difference between this and, say, having sickle-cell anemia is that you CHOOSE to be a smoker. Further, about the socks, are you familiar with IBM? You had to wear a fucking red tie. It is totally legal for them to say "you must wear this type of clothing" just like it's legal to say "you may not drink alcohol while at work" or "you may not smoke while at work." They don't owe you a booze break because you're a drinker and they don't owe you a smoke break because you're a smoker. I don't get boxing/personal training breaks because I'm a martial artist, I do that shit on my lunch. Just because you like to do something doesn't mean the company has to make it easy for you to do it during their business hours. Now, if they were punishing you for smoking in your off-time, then THAT is discrimination. But trying to "coerce" employees into acting a certain way while they are at work is perfectly reasonable. If you don't like it, don't work there.
But Defender, that isn't the case here.
That's not what Rank's boss is talking about.
He's talking about giving people a bonus in pay because they don't smoke, with the express purpose of putting pressure on those who do.
That goes above and beyond a work dress code or requiring certain conduct in the workplace.
It goes into telling people how they have to live their personal life, and effectively docking them in pay because they don't.
what?
no it's not. it's not docking anyone. it is giving some folks what is possibly an unfair increase in wages, but no one's wages are getting cut here.
guys, am i the only one who isn't like "rawr you suck no smoking break for you" and actually doesn't care for the idea of an employer basically monetarily rewarding his employees for sharing his view on a subject that has nothing to do with the workplace?
i mean shit
it's not much different than giving a pay raise but only to the employees who wear the same socks as you.
we have laws against that kind of discrimination where i live
i would assume the US does too, don't it?
Idealistically, you'd be absolutely right. The employer is trying to coerce his employees into taking on a form of behavior that is more acceptable to him, and supporting that act with convenient (and bullshit) reasoning.
It's pay discrimination, plain and simple.
Unfortunately, most people won't make that mental leap. They'll see it as "WTF I WANT MY SMOKE BREAKS THIS IS BS," in which case you'd have to argue that smoking, in fact, has no real impact on the quality of one's work.
Smoking does make the work environment less pleasant. Also, smokers raise the cost of health insurance by, you know, being unhealthy. The difference between this and, say, having sickle-cell anemia is that you CHOOSE to be a smoker. Further, about the socks, are you familiar with IBM? You had to wear a fucking red tie. It is totally legal for them to say "you must wear this type of clothing" just like it's legal to say "you may not drink alcohol while at work" or "you may not smoke while at work." They don't owe you a booze break because you're a drinker and they don't owe you a smoke break because you're a smoker. I don't get boxing/personal training breaks because I'm a martial artist, I do that shit on my lunch. Just because you like to do something doesn't mean the company has to make it easy for you to do it during their business hours. Now, if they were punishing you for smoking in your off-time, then THAT is discrimination. But trying to "coerce" employees into acting a certain way while they are at work is perfectly reasonable. If you don't like it, don't work there.
But Defender, that isn't the case here.
That's not what Rank's boss is talking about.
He's talking about giving people a bonus in pay because they don't smoke, with the express purpose of putting pressure on those who do.
That goes above and beyond a work dress code or requiring certain conduct in the workplace.
It goes into telling people how they have to live their personal life, and effectively docking them in pay because they don't.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
No, it is. Because it is easier to do that way. Like I said, cell phones got banned from my workplace because of a few people. It just happens. And we all thought it was unfair. In a perfect world, I guess you are right, but we probably wouldn't also have these problems.
Just because it happens doesn't make it right.
t Rane -- No, but rubbing that dead baby all over your genitals may have made my opinion of you drop a notch or two.
why is smoking tobacco legal and smoking pot illegal
if we had found pot before tobacco do you think pot would be legal now and people would be all, what? smoke tobacco? that shit'll kill ya!
stigma
hearst
we've had hemp around for ages
it's the stigma
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
guys, am i the only one who isn't like "rawr you suck no smoking break for you" and actually doesn't care for the idea of an employer basically monetarily rewarding his employees for sharing his view on a subject that has nothing to do with the workplace?
i mean shit
it's not much different than giving a pay raise but only to the employees who wear the same socks as you.
we have laws against that kind of discrimination where i live
i would assume the US does too, don't it?
Idealistically, you'd be absolutely right. The employer is trying to coerce his employees into taking on a form of behavior that is more acceptable to him, and supporting that act with convenient (and bullshit) reasoning.
It's pay discrimination, plain and simple.
Unfortunately, most people won't make that mental leap. They'll see it as "WTF I WANT MY SMOKE BREAKS THIS IS BS," in which case you'd have to argue that smoking, in fact, has no real impact on the quality of one's work.
Smoking does make the work environment less pleasant. Also, smokers raise the cost of health insurance by, you know, being unhealthy. The difference between this and, say, having sickle-cell anemia is that you CHOOSE to be a smoker. Further, about the socks, are you familiar with IBM? You had to wear a fucking red tie. It is totally legal for them to say "you must wear this type of clothing" just like it's legal to say "you may not drink alcohol while at work" or "you may not smoke while at work." They don't owe you a booze break because you're a drinker and they don't owe you a smoke break because you're a smoker. I don't get boxing/personal training breaks because I'm a martial artist, I do that shit on my lunch. Just because you like to do something doesn't mean the company has to make it easy for you to do it during their business hours. Now, if they were punishing you for smoking in your off-time, then THAT is discrimination. But trying to "coerce" employees into acting a certain way while they are at work is perfectly reasonable. If you don't like it, don't work there.
But Defender, that isn't the case here.
That's not what Rank's boss is talking about.
He's talking about giving people a bonus in pay because they don't smoke, with the express purpose of putting pressure on those who do.
That goes above and beyond a work dress code or requiring certain conduct in the workplace.
It goes into telling people how they have to live their personal life, and effectively docking them in pay because they don't.
WARNING: DEFENDER PRESENCE
DO NOT ENGAGE
I REPEAT
DO NOT ENGAGE
...
Well, fuck...
Now let's watch 20 previous pages of the thread repeat themselves.
edit: stupid forum doesn't adapt to H scroll GET WITH THE TIMES, PEOPLE
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
No, it is. Because it is easier to do that way. Like I said, cell phones got banned from my workplace because of a few people. It just happens. And we all thought it was unfair. In a perfect world, I guess you are right, but we probably wouldn't also have these problems.
Just because it happens doesn't make it right.
t Rane -- No, but rubbing that dead baby all over your genitals may have made my opinion of you drop a notch or two.
you lied to me via PM
godamnit I wanted your loins to become flushed and engorged
Raneados on
0
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited January 2007
Hey, out of (completely unrelated) curiosity: anyone know where Pooro's been?
No, it is. Because it is easier to do that way. Like I said, cell phones got banned from my workplace because of a few people. It just happens. And we all thought it was unfair. In a perfect world, I guess you are right, but we probably wouldn't also have these problems.
Just because it happens doesn't make it right.
t Rane -- No, but rubbing that dead baby all over your genitals may have made my opinion of you drop a notch or two.
you lied to me via PM
godamnit I wanted your loins to become flushed and engorged
why is smoking tobacco legal and smoking pot illegal
if we had found pot before tobacco do you think pot would be legal now and people would be all, what? smoke tobacco? that shit'll kill ya!
perhaps it's the altered state of mind that pot produces that leads to car accidents and bad decisions
I hated those pot commericals about running over little girls with your car and shit but the newest one seems pretty head on.
The one about how "I went to my friend bobby's house and we smoked pot. Then nothing happened....."
"We didn't go out to the movies or ice skating or to a party. We just sat in his basement on his couch for six and a half hours."
No, it is. Because it is easier to do that way. Like I said, cell phones got banned from my workplace because of a few people. It just happens. And we all thought it was unfair. In a perfect world, I guess you are right, but we probably wouldn't also have these problems.
Just because it happens doesn't make it right.
t Rane -- No, but rubbing that dead baby all over your genitals may have made my opinion of you drop a notch or two.
It's not exactly fair but it doesn't make it wrong. Smokers are not having their pay reduced. They are still allowed to smoke. They should be more concerned about getting a raise based on their work ethic and performance, I guess.
Phonehand on
0
RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderatormod
edited January 2007
hey
dudes
how the fuck do I attach type to a path in Illustrator CS2?
fucking Help doesn't want to come up, and I don't have Freehand on this computer.
why is smoking tobacco legal and smoking pot illegal
if we had found pot before tobacco do you think pot would be legal now and people would be all, what? smoke tobacco? that shit'll kill ya!
perhaps it's the altered state of mind that pot produces that leads to car accidents and bad decisions
I hated those pot commericals about running over little girls with your car and shit but the newest one seems pretty head on.
The one about how "I went to my friend bobby's house and we smoked pot. Then nothing happened....."
"We didn't go out to the movies or ice skating or to a party. We just sat in his basement on his couch for six and a half hours."
something along those lines.
Oh crap, you're rockmonkey, aren't you
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
why is smoking tobacco legal and smoking pot illegal
if we had found pot before tobacco do you think pot would be legal now and people would be all, what? smoke tobacco? that shit'll kill ya!
perhaps it's the altered state of mind that pot produces that leads to car accidents and bad decisions
I hated those pot commericals about running over little girls with your car and shit but the newest one seems pretty head on.
The one about how "I went to my friend bobby's house and we smoked pot. Then nothing happened....."
"We didn't go out to the movies or ice skating or to a party. We just sat in his basement on his couch for six and a half hours."
something along those lines.
The second one is true though.
Well, kind of. You do sit there and do basically nothing but you feel incredibly productive.
why is smoking tobacco legal and smoking pot illegal
if we had found pot before tobacco do you think pot would be legal now and people would be all, what? smoke tobacco? that shit'll kill ya!
perhaps it's the altered state of mind that pot produces that leads to car accidents and bad decisions
I hated those pot commericals about running over little girls with your car and shit but the newest one seems pretty head on.
The one about how "I went to my friend bobby's house and we smoked pot. Then nothing happened....."
"We didn't go out to the movies or ice skating or to a party. We just sat in his basement on his couch for six and a half hours."
pot has more of an effect on your consciousness than driving, this is true
I've never heard of it causing any car accidents, though
and by that logic, why isn't alcohol illegal
A. Religion
B. Gourmet
YESSS I KNOW EVERYTHING
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
pot has more of an effect on your consciousness than smoking tobacco, this is true
I've never heard of it causing any car accidents, though
and by that logic, why isn't alcohol illegal
Isn't alcohol a reasonable thing to consume in quantities that don't make you drunk? I have trouble imagining smoking pot but NOT having it affect your decision-making or your mental state or whatever. A glass of wine, though, has almost zero effect.
I'm relieved to discover that it's not that interesting so far, but I think I might be intentionally not giving it much of a chance because I don't want to end up paying for it monthly
redhead on
0
RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderatormod
Posts
The thread is still on fire Raneados. It is a flame that shall never stop.
what?
no it's not. it's not docking anyone. it is giving some folks what is possibly an unfair increase in wages, but no one's wages are getting cut here.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
perhaps it's the altered state of mind that pot produces that leads to car accidents and bad decisions
No, I'm responding specifically to the sense of entitlement, not to Rank's original dingdong.
stigma
hearst
we've had hemp around for ages
it's the stigma
Just because it happens doesn't make it right.
t Rane -- No, but rubbing that dead baby all over your genitals may have made my opinion of you drop a notch or two.
Sheri Baldwin Photography | Facebook | Twitter | Etsy Shop | BUY ME STUFF (updated for 2014!)
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
DO NOT ENGAGE
I REPEAT
DO NOT ENGAGE
...
Well, fuck...
Now let's watch 20 previous pages of the thread repeat themselves.
Man what else am I gonna do on Thursday night?
Partake in Thirsty Thursday?
Nah.
Sheri Baldwin Photography | Facebook | Twitter | Etsy Shop | BUY ME STUFF (updated for 2014!)
WOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW
edit: stupid forum doesn't adapt to H scroll GET WITH THE TIMES, PEOPLE
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
you lied to me via PM
godamnit I wanted your loins to become flushed and engorged
The baby was flushed and engorged.
But that was just bloating caused by gas.
That was kind of gross.
Sheri Baldwin Photography | Facebook | Twitter | Etsy Shop | BUY ME STUFF (updated for 2014!)
I hated those pot commericals about running over little girls with your car and shit but the newest one seems pretty head on.
The one about how "I went to my friend bobby's house and we smoked pot. Then nothing happened....."
"We didn't go out to the movies or ice skating or to a party. We just sat in his basement on his couch for six and a half hours."
something along those lines.
Also smoked trout. It's sooo good on crackers.
[/quote:ebb184078e]
[/quote:ebb184078e]
[/quote:ebb184078e]
[/quote:ebb184078e][/quote:ebb184078e]
Nobody I've seen post fits what you're describing.
dudes
how the fuck do I attach type to a path in Illustrator CS2?
fucking Help doesn't want to come up, and I don't have Freehand on this computer.
Problem solved.
LAWL
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I've never heard of it causing any car accidents, though
and by that logic, why isn't alcohol illegal
Oh hey guys instead of giving Dark Phoenix her flame aura let's put a back light on her and have the wind machine cranked up to 11
and give Halle Berry more screentime even though her character ultimate does nothing except deliver an awkward and stilted eulogy
and also let's make pretty much every death inconsequential at the end of the movie
I think everyone can agree that that city will be dead in 20 years
The second one is true though.
Well, kind of. You do sit there and do basically nothing but you feel incredibly productive.
stigma?
stigma
same thing with drunk driving
B. Gourmet
YESSS I KNOW EVERYTHING
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Well, I feel better.
Isn't alcohol a reasonable thing to consume in quantities that don't make you drunk? I have trouble imagining smoking pot but NOT having it affect your decision-making or your mental state or whatever. A glass of wine, though, has almost zero effect.
I'm relieved to discover that it's not that interesting so far, but I think I might be intentionally not giving it much of a chance because I don't want to end up paying for it monthly
oh rane
rane
rane
why
you have so much to live for