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Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Poland; is fired

BlindZenDriverBlindZenDriver Registered User regular
edited June 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
I have just been reading the remarks made by the White House press secretary with regards to the remarks by long term White House corespondent Helen Thomas on the subject of Israel.

While I recognize the remarks made by Helen Thomas may be controversial it is beyond me how the US government pretty much dictates what a reported is supposed to do and say. So my question is this "Is the US really the land of the free? Or is it a land which is only free for those in agreement with what comme il faut in Washington?".


Facts and reference:
Helen Thomas describe on wiki, her web page and a "random" news page describing the situation.

Recap:
White House bullies corespondent over her remarks on Israel. Is this okay in a Democracy or is that making a mockery out of what is supposed to be the land of the free?

Bones heal, glory is forever.
BlindZenDriver on
«134

Posts

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Home of the free seems like a fucking stupid term

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • r4dr3zr4dr3z Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Home of the free seems like a fucking stupid term

    Dude, it's the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    r4dr3z on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    r4dr3z wrote: »
    Home of the free seems like a fucking stupid term

    Dude, it's the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    Ah man

    this is why I can't do whatever I want in the USA

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I liked her. She was a cantankerous hoot.

    But she is 89. I don't know how the retirement of any 89-year-old could be called "abrupt."

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Feral wrote: »
    I liked her. She was a cantankerous hoot.

    But she is 89. I don't know how the retirement of any 89-year-old could be called "abrupt."

    It would be abrupt if she turned to dust.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She was also basically the only reporter in that room who wasn't obsessed with gossipy bullshit.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She was also basically the only reporter in that room who wasn't obsessed with gossipy bullshit.

    She liked to ask Bush some pretty point-blank questions.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    Question: does the White House control access to the press briefings?

    BubbaT on
  • BlindZenDriverBlindZenDriver Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    I of course know she was no fired by the White House however you've seen the remarks by the White House on the matter and I for one can easily imagine the sort of pressure going on behind closed doors. If something like that is said in public. Is it really okay for the Government to comment and say a member of the press should apologize. I can not see that fits well with the freedom of the press.

    BlindZenDriver on
    Bones heal, glory is forever.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    Question: does the White House control access to the press briefings?

    Yes and no, if I remember my Jeff Gannon/Guckert scandal correctly. The major institutions (and Helen Thomas would be considered such) basically have permanent passes. You can threaten them, but the media would go apeshit and make your life a living a hell in response. You can also freeze out certain outlets by not letting them ask questions.

    And of course smaller outfits (like former male escorts turned "bloggers" who just happen to kiss your ass all the time") are given passes on a day by day bases.

    Regardless, it's not important here as she had "retired" by the time Gibbs made his statement.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Bush did it right

    he got the journalists he didn't like thrown in jail

    nexuscrawler on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Free Speech goes two ways

    The WH has every right to say something if they disagree with a journalists statement.

    nexuscrawler on
  • NartwakNartwak Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    When Bill Moyers dies journalism will be buried with him.

    Nartwak on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    I of course know she was no fired by the White House however you've seen the remarks by the White House on the matter and I for one can easily imagine the sort of pressure going on behind closed doors. If something like that is said in public. Is it really okay for the Government to comment and say a member of the press should apologize. I can not see that fits well with the freedom of the press.

    You should change your thread title. And of course the government can say whatever they damn well please about the conduct of the press. You'll note the President himself frequently mocks them for focusing on puerile petty bullshit. He calls them self obsessed morons in slightly nicer terms all the damn time.

    The government can't say: "you can't write/say that." It can say "Holy shit, that's a remarkably stupid thing to write/say" all it wants though.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    If you're going to tell a blogger that the Jews should get the hell out of Israel, you're probably either dumb, racist, or senile enough to not really belong in the media. A shame to end her career on that note.

    Now of course its unfair that other reporters aren't held to that standard, you can work for Fox News and basically advocate killing homosexuals or re-instituting slavery and get a pass. But "Its ok on Fox" is a pretty fucking low bar.

    Kind of curious if she just lost it at that moment or if she wants to stand behind the substance of those remarks.

    PotatoNinja on
    Two goats enter, one car leaves
  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    She wasn't fired by the White House, she was forced into retirement by Hearst who employs her. The White House condemned her remarks because they're kind of condemnable. Ta da!

    I of course know she was no fired by the White House however you've seen the remarks by the White House on the matter and I for one can easily imagine the sort of pressure going on behind closed doors. If something like that is said in public. Is it really okay for the Government to comment and say a member of the press should apologize. I can not see that fits well with the freedom of the press.

    "I know that my thread title isn't true, but my psychic powers tell me that something bad was going on."

    Kilroy on
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    What you say publicly reflects on your employer, doubly so if you're in a news organization. People get fired all the time for saying stupid shit. This doesn't bother me at all.

    PolloDiablo on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    If you're going to tell a blogger that the Jews should get the hell out of Israel, you're probably either dumb, racist, or senile enough to not really belong in the media. A shame to end her career on that note.

    Now of course its unfair that other reporters aren't held to that standard, you can work for Fox News and basically advocate killing homosexuals or re-instituting slavery and get a pass. But "Its ok on Fox" is a pretty fucking low bar.

    Kind of curious if she just lost it at that moment or if she wants to stand behind the substance of those remarks.

    As I said in the Israel thread, you can call a Supreme Court Justice a goat fucking child molester and get hired by CNN, sooooooo

    The far more concerning and fucked up White House Press Corps story of the weekend is actually them all attending a beach party thrown by the Bidens and gushing about how awesome it was. Much like McCain's infamous tire swing.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    [ed] Ok, definitely not the right place to be saying that. The White House Jewish heritage event. Ouchy.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Saint Madness on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Which makes it pretty clearly not a two state solution endorsement but a GTFO out of the Middle East statement.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    As I said in the Israel thread, you can call a Supreme Court Justice a goat fucking child molester and get hired by CNN, sooooooo

    The far more concerning and fucked up White House Press Corps story of the weekend is actually them all attending a beach party thrown by the Bidens and gushing about how awesome it was. Much like McCain's infamous tire swing.

    I don't know how I feel about that. On one hand I understand Glenn Greenwald's point on this and think that it is against journalistic ethics. On the other hand I can see how a journalist would want to be more buddy buddy with the people they are covering so they could get more information from them when it comes time to do their job.

    Its easier to ask an acquaintance what was their most embarrassing moment was than it is to ask a complete stranger. Then again how often do you have to ask hard hitting / biting questions of acquaintances.

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Which makes it pretty clearly not a two state solution endorsement but a GTFO out of the Middle East statement.

    The full quote says they should also go to the US and elsewhere. IIRC historically speaking most of the Jews in Israel emigrated their after it was created. It wasn't created around a massive Jewish population.

    Edit: It might also be offensive from a historical perspective but do people really believe that if Jews moved to Poland or Germany now that they would be persecuted like they were in WWII?

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2010
    Home of the free seems like a fucking stupid term

    Especially if you have spent any time in the Free Will Thread.

    Home of the Causally Determined, more like it.

    _J_ on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    As I said in the Israel thread, you can call a Supreme Court Justice a goat fucking child molester and get hired by CNN, sooooooo

    The far more concerning and fucked up White House Press Corps story of the weekend is actually them all attending a beach party thrown by the Bidens and gushing about how awesome it was. Much like McCain's infamous tire swing.

    I don't know how I feel about that. On one hand I understand Glenn Greenwald's point on this and think that it is against journalistic ethics. On the other hand I can see how a journalist would want to be more buddy buddy with the people they are covering so they could get more information from them when it comes time to do their job.

    Its easier to ask an acquaintance what was their most embarrassing moment was than it is to ask a complete stranger. Then again how often do you have to ask hard hitting / biting questions of acquaintances.

    It seems to me rather than people in government positions being more likely to give information to their buddies we get reporters less likely to publish embarrassing things about their buddies and trusting them instead. So when the White House says X is true, it must be true. They lost the "but verify" part of the cliche.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Which makes it pretty clearly not a two state solution endorsement but a GTFO out of the Middle East statement.

    The full quote says they should also go to the US and elsewhere. IIRC historically speaking most of the Jews in Israel emigrated their after it was created. It wasn't created around a massive Jewish population.

    Edit: It might also be offensive from a historical perspective but do people really believe that if Jews moved to Poland or Germany now that they would be persecuted like they were in WWII?


    Certainly not, no.

    Saint Madness on
  • BlindZenDriverBlindZenDriver Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The government can't say: "you can't write/say that."

    But it is not what the government just said?

    Video with Gibbs commenting on the issue.. He says "She should and have apologized" and then some words on how her views are not shared by those at the White House press briefing. To me that pretty much sounds like "You can't".

    Further more the later statement by Gibbs on how the view is not shared by people in the room, and this includes a lot of press people, is alarming. Imagine if it was said in a dictatorship and a government official told the press what they should think - for sure that would be frowned upon. Now I do not see it as being that extreme however if the general way those press briefings works is that the White House tells what to think instead of telling what the White House thinks then that is a pretty sick system.

    It can say "Holy shit, that's a remarkably stupid thing to write/say" all it wants though.

    Of course. Everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion. However that is certainly not a view shared by all. I did a little more surfing on the issue and here is what I found:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2427
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100607/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_thomas_israel_remarks_5

    BlindZenDriver on
    Bones heal, glory is forever.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    He said they were offensive and therefore should apologize. That's... pretty much true. I don't get where your complaint is.

    And that view isn't shared by much of anyone, and certainly not expressed in polite society, which I think we can agree includes most of the members of press corps. Or at least they'd consider themselves that.

    It's an extreme view!

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Which makes it pretty clearly not a two state solution endorsement but a GTFO out of the Middle East statement.

    The full quote says they should also go to the US and elsewhere. IIRC historically speaking most of the Jews in Israel emigrated their after it was created. It wasn't created around a massive Jewish population.

    Edit: It might also be offensive from a historical perspective but do people really believe that if Jews moved to Poland or Germany now that they would be persecuted like they were in WWII?


    Certainly not, no.

    Are you kidding?

    5 million Jews show up on your door asking for jobs, civil services, and residency and you don't think that would stir up some anti-Semitic sentiment?

    Would it be Holocaust 2.0? Probably not. Would it be all back-patting and friendliness? HA! HA I TELL YOU.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The government can't say: "you can't write/say that."

    But it is not what the government just said?

    Video with Gibbs commenting on the issue.. He says "She should and have apologized" and then some words on how her views are not shared by those at the White House press briefing. To me that pretty much sounds like "You can't".
    That's odd, they don't have any words in common. Seriously, Gibbs expressing an opinion on her statement is the same as the WH forcing her to resign to you?

    Captain Carrot on
  • PicardathonPicardathon Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I don't think that Helen Thomas is being persecuted as much as she might be slipping a bit if she doesn't realize that the Jewish Heritage event is not the correct place to be saying that the Jews should leave Israel.

    Then again, she might just doing what she always does and is probably getting pushed out by political pressure. Thinking that the Jews should go back to Germany/Poland is taboo, as is saying that the Palestinians should all go to Jordan.

    Treating her comments as a serious suggestion is ridiculous due to the fact that most Israeli Jews were born in Israel. As unpleasant as the original action may have been the children shouldn't be punished for what their parents did.

    Picardathon on
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Kagera wrote: »
    Ok, am I retarded and reading the Wiki article completely backwards?
    Wikipedia wrote:
    On May 27, 2010, outside a White House Jewish heritage event, Rabbi David Nesenoff asked if Thomas had any comments on Israel. Thomas replied, "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine; remember, these people are occupied, and it's their land."

    Saying Israelis should get out of Palestine is that unpopular of an opinion to have? Did I miss something here?

    She told them to "Go back to Germany and Poland" which from a historical perspective is pretty offensive.

    Which makes it pretty clearly not a two state solution endorsement but a GTFO out of the Middle East statement.

    The full quote says they should also go to the US and elsewhere. IIRC historically speaking most of the Jews in Israel emigrated their after it was created. It wasn't created around a massive Jewish population.

    Edit: It might also be offensive from a historical perspective but do people really believe that if Jews moved to Poland or Germany now that they would be persecuted like they were in WWII?


    Certainly not, no.

    Are you kidding?

    5 million Jews show up on your door asking for jobs, civil services, and residency and you don't think that would stir up some anti-Semitic sentiment?

    Would it be Holocaust 2.0? Probably not. Would it be all back-patting and friendliness? HA! HA I TELL YOU.

    This is stupid, I meant that there isn't a strong culture of anti-semitism in either country I didn't say "It would be fine if we transplanted the entire Israeli population into central Europe".

    Saint Madness on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Um... 1/4 to 1/3 having unfavorable opinions of Jews isn't a strong culture of anti-semitism?

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Saying Palestine should have the land isn't anti-Semitic. It favors Palestine over Israel, but taking Palestine's side isn't automatically anti-Semitic.

    'Go back to Germany and Poland', however, is absolutely anti-Semitic. Sure, she tossed in the US and an 'other' category, but when you start with Germany and Poland, it's pretty tough to see it any other way. Something like that would get almost anyone else in that briefing room in just as much trouble, and the fact that it's an 89-year-old Helen Thomas really shouldn't make any difference.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2010
    Um... 1/4 to 1/3 having unfavorable opinions of Jews isn't a strong culture of anti-semitism?

    Not relative to a culture which is 4/4 or 3/3 unfavorable towards Jews. Europe gets graded on a different scale, because, you know, Nazis. I mean, in the scope of European history 1/4 anti-semitism is pretty damn good.

    _J_ on
  • cherv1cherv1 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I knew students my age have stupid opinions like wanting all Israelis to leave the Middle East, but I had always assumed you grew out of it, especially seeing as Israel is a developed country that's been in existance for nearly 70 years - it's not going anywhere, and having your peace plan expecting it too is just completely unpragmatic.

    And the fact that this woman is American - how can she expect the Israelis to leave their occupied country and give it back to the persecuted brown people who originally owned it? I mean does she expect Americans to pack their bags and "go back to Europe" and give the US back to the opressed brown people who originally owned it a few hundred years back?

    cherv1 on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    cherv1 wrote: »
    I knew students my age have stupid opinions like wanting all Israelis to leave the Middle East, but I had always assumed you grew out of it, especially seeing as Israel is a developed country that's been in existance for nearly 70 years - it's not going anywhere, and having your peace plan expecting it too is just completely unpragmatic.

    And the fact that this woman is American - how can she expect the Israelis to leave their occupied country and give it back to the persecuted brown people who originally owned it? I mean does she expect Americans to pack their bags and "go back to Europe" and give the US back to the opressed brown people who originally owned it a few hundred years back?

    They made the rookie mistake of not massacring the original inhabitants like we did. Normally that would be understandable, but as Jews, they really should have known better.

    Kind of hypocritical, actually. They keep on upholding health restrictions after they're no longer necessary, but the instant the teachings of their heritage become relevent, they ignore them.
    I'm joking.

    jothki on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The government can't say: "you can't write/say that."

    But it is not what the government just said?

    Video with Gibbs commenting on the issue.. He says "She should and have apologized" and then some words on how her views are not shared by those at the White House press briefing. To me that pretty much sounds like "You can't".

    Further more the later statement by Gibbs on how the view is not shared by people in the room, and this includes a lot of press people, is alarming. Imagine if it was said in a dictatorship and a government official told the press what they should think - for sure that would be frowned upon. Now I do not see it as being that extreme however if the general way those press briefings works is that the White House tells what to think instead of telling what the White House thinks then that is a pretty sick system.
    Ok, first off, you need to understand freedom of the press and freedom of expression. Because you clearly don't. The white house saying that she should apologize is not infringing on any rights of anyone. If she doesn't, what's going to happen? Was there any threat from the white house? Did the government forcibly remove the comments? Did they forbid them from being aired? If Helen Thomas hadn't apologized, would she have been thrown in jail? Was there, in fact, any sort of pressure applied by the government at all? No. There was a comment from the press secretary, which by the way was made after she apologized anyways. Stopping the government from making a statement because it's about a reporter is not only not a defense of freedom of the press, but is in fact against freedom of expression.

    Also, gibbs didn't tell the press room what to think, he said that he assumed that her views weren't shared by the room. Here even more clearly there was not only no threat, but he distanced from making an absolute statement.


    Essentially, what is this even about, this is such a complete non-issue, and your arguments are ridiculous and unconstitutional. Helen Thomas made a stupid remark . Anyone in any position saying "That was a stupid remark" isn't violating the freedom of press, and her resigning is because absolutely no one was supporting her, not because the White House sent a secret CIA hit squad against her.



    EDIT: This kind of reminds me of when someone was defending tea partiers and said something like "Because they have the right to say what they want without being mocked" No they don't. There is absolutely no protection for anyone against people saying mean(true) things about them.

    Khavall on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Holy land also bestows +10 difficulty modifier on all annexation rolls.

    enc0re on
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