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Bush Administration Conducted "Experiments" On Detainees

Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
edited June 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Just when this hole couldn't get any deeper

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/library/news-2010-06-07.html
http://phrtorturepapers.org/

Evidence Indicates that the Bush Administration Conducted Experiments and Research on Detainees to Design Torture Techniques and Create Legal Cover
(Cambridge, MA) In the most comprehensive investigation to date of health professionals’ involvement in the CIA’s “enhanced” interrogation program (EIP), Physicians For Human Rights has uncovered evidence that indicates the Bush administration apparently conducted illegal and unethical human experimentation and research on detainees in CIA custody. The apparent experimentation and research appear to have been performed to provide legal cover for torture, as well as to help justify and shape future procedures and policies governing the use of the “enhanced” interrogation techniques. The PHR report, Experiments in Torture: Human Subject Research and Evidence of Experimentation in the ‘Enhanced’ Interrogation Program, is the first to provide evidence that CIA medical personnel engaged in the crime of illegal experimentation after 9/11, in addition to the previously disclosed crime of torture.
The PHR report indicates that there is evidence that health professionals engaged in research on detainees that violates the Geneva Conventions, The Common Rule, the Nuremberg Code and other international and domestic prohibitions against illegal human subject research and experimentation. Declassified government documents indicate that:


-Research and medical experimentation on detainees was used to measure the effects of large- volume waterboarding and adjust the procedure according to the results. After medical monitoring and advice, the CIA experimentally added saline, in an attempt to prevent putting detainees in a coma or killing them through over-ingestion of large amounts of plain water. The report observes: “‘Waterboarding 2.0’ was the product of the CIA’s developing and field-testing an intentionally harmful practice, using systematic medical monitoring and the
application of subsequent generalizable knowledge.”


-Health professionals monitored sleep deprivation on more than a dozen detainees in 48-, 96- and 180-hour increments. This research was apparently used to monitor and assess the effects of varying levels of sleep deprivation to support legal definitions of torture and to plan future sleep deprivation techniques.


-Health professionals appear to have analyzed data, based on their observations of 25 detainees who were subjected to individual and combined applications of “enhanced” interrogation techniques, to determine whether one type of application over another would increase the subject’s “susceptibility to severe pain.” The alleged research appears to have been undertaken only to assess the legality of the “enhanced” interrogation tactics and to guide future application of the techniques.

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Posts

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Fuck.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Godwin is appropriate here.

    Couscous on
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    Godwin is appropriate here.

    No, John.
    You are the Nazis.

    Seriously though. Uh.

    Yeah. Uh. I think that's probably the best I can come up with for now.

    Shivahn on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Welp

    Robman on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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    Orikae! |RS| : why is everyone yelling 'enders is dead go'
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Surprise! No, not a surprise.

    I'd also like to remind everyone that we need to look forwards and not back. Again.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Okay, there has to be some for of human rights trial now. I know everyone in the current administration just wants to move on and get as far away from the Bush administration as humanly possible, but we need to answer for this. Someone has to go to prison for what was done here.

    It's just sad that I know none of those serving time will be Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    jesus

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    or do you believe?
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Do we know that these experiments were conducted on people who weren't murderous terrorists?

    Qingu on
  • Metal Gear Solid 2 DemoMetal Gear Solid 2 Demo Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    Metal Gear Solid 2 Demo on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    Do we know that these experiments were conducted on people who weren't murderous terrorists?

    1) Considering the rate at which Gitmo detainees have been granted release on habeas appeals, probably.
    2) It matters?

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Of which I am sure the current administration was fully briefed on upon taking office and yet still decided to do nothing. Isn't that transparency in government working out well for us?

    Detharin on
    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Okay, there has to be some for of human rights trial now. I know everyone in the current administration just wants to move on and get as far away from the Bush administration as humanly possible, but we need to answer for this. Someone has to go to prison for what was done here.

    It's just sad that I know none of those serving time will be Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld.

    Fuck that.

    Can't we just have a Predator Drone "misfire" into Bush's ranch?

    HamHamJ on
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  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    This is our generation's Tuskegee experiment.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    Do we know that these experiments were conducted on people who weren't murderous terrorists?

    1) Considering the rate at which Gitmo detainees have been granted release on habeas appeals, probably.
    2) It matters?

    If a 19 year old Israeli commando can look into a man's eyes and tell whether or not he's a murderous terrorist, I'm sure our highly trained CIA and health professionals can as well, especially since they're not operating under as hectic conditions.


    ...

    But srsrsly, this isn't really all that much of a revelation; I remember hearing doctors were involved with waterboarding last year. Didn't the memos brag about how they were medically supervised?

    Qingu on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    This is our generation's Tuskegee experiment.
    Okay, I don't actually think it's that bad.

    Qingu on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2010
    Damnit, this is why we can't have anything nice!

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Do we know that these experiments were conducted on people who weren't murderous terrorists?

    1) Considering the rate at which Gitmo detainees have been granted release on habeas appeals, probably.
    2) It matters?

    If a 19 year old Israeli commando can look into a man's eyes and tell whether or not he's a murderous terrorist, I'm sure our highly trained CIA and health professionals can as well, especially since they're not operating under as hectic conditions.


    ...

    But srsrsly, this isn't really all that much of a revelation; I remember hearing doctors were involved with waterboarding last year. Didn't the memos brag about how they were medically supervised?

    Yeah, I thought this was likely the case as soon as the revelations about the psychologists came out. So I was less than shocked by this news.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    This is our generation's Tuskegee experiment.
    Okay, I don't actually think it's that bad.

    With the media attention this will receive overseas, and the comparisons it runs to certain national socialist parties, it's going to get pretty bad for us if the evidence just keeps dog pilling on. I agree it's not as bad as the Tuskegee experiment in terms of numbers, but it can be spinned to look just as bad by the foreign (and domestic) press.

    Although, knowing the American press, it probably won't get much airtime. Lindsey Lohan is dating another woman now.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • robotbeboprobotbebop Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    If a 19 year old Israeli commando can look into a man's eyes and tell whether or not he's a murderous terrorist, I'm sure our highly trained CIA and health professionals can as well, especially since they're not operating under as hectic conditions.

    Uhh....

    Well, considering that most of these dudes were captured on the battlefield without any due process or this magical Israeli mind-reading you speak of, it's probably a safe bet that no, they are not terrorists under the proper definition.

    At least one was a child soldier, was blown to hell and back, and was only discovered because a troop stepped on his exposed foot since he was buried in effing rubble So, unless that guard could sense terrorists based on how their shattered feet crunch when you step on them, I'm pretty sure it's a safe bet to say that kid wasn't a terrorist; just some poor schmuck with idiots for parents and the money to fly him to Afghanistan to be with his insane family.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

    EDIT: warning graphic photos are in that article

    robotbebop on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    This is our generation's Tuskegee experiment.
    Okay, I don't actually think it's that bad.

    With the media attention this will receive overseas, and the comparisons it runs to certain national socialist parties, it's going to get pretty bad for us if the evidence just keeps dog pilling on. I agree it's not as bad as the Tuskegee experiment in terms of numbers, but it can be spinned to look just as bad by the foreign (and domestic) press.

    Although, knowing the American press, it probably won't get much airtime. Lindsey Lohan is dating another woman now.

    Well, and we need to decide if Obama is angry enough at BP.

    Oh! And the kid who killed that blonde girl killed someone else! I just checked out CNN's front page... sigh.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    seriously we're going to be hearing stories about this place for years, this revelation probably just barely scratches the surface

    This is our generation's Tuskegee experiment.
    Okay, I don't actually think it's that bad.

    With the media attention this will receive overseas, and the comparisons it runs to certain national socialist parties, it's going to get pretty bad for us if the evidence just keeps dog pilling on. I agree it's not as bad as the Tuskegee experiment in terms of numbers, but it can be spinned to look just as bad by the foreign (and domestic) press.

    Although, knowing the American press, it probably won't get much airtime. Lindsey Lohan is dating another woman now.
    What?! How did her court date snafu get worked out? Did she ever come back to the states?

    Improvolone on
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    image6189948x.jpg

    emnmnme on
  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    image6189948x.jpg

    bush-shoe.jpg

    Twice

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    Do we know that these experiments were conducted on people who weren't murderous terrorists?

    1) Considering the rate at which Gitmo detainees have been granted release on habeas appeals, probably.
    2) It matters?

    Only insofar as public outrage and demand for an official investigation goes. I mean, it's awful, and there's no excuse, but the people need to be screaming/rioting for an investigation to take place, and if the ones being experimented on were murderous bastards, there's a not insignificant part of the population who will go "oh, well, fuck them anyway."

    Shadowfire on
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  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    emnmnme wrote: »
    image6189948x.jpg
    The only way I know how to come to terms with this kind of shit is to just accept that Republicans are going to ignore international law in the name of American exceptionalism and generally act like savages if they get into office. It's what they've done pretty consistently since Nixon. Bear in mind that like half of American citizens are okay with this kind of shit.

    Once you accept that half of America just is this way, you can move past the impotent rage and just concentrate on doing what you can to make sure they never get into office again.

    Qingu on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    image6189948x.jpg
    The only way I know how to come to terms with this kind of shit is to just accept that Republicans are going to ignore international law in the name of American exceptionalism and generally act like savages if they get into office. It's what they've done pretty consistently since Nixon. Bear in mind that like half of American citizens are okay with this kind of shit.

    Once you accept that half of America just is this way, you can move past the impotent rage and just concentrate on doing what you can to make sure they never get into office again.

    See a Republican, shoot a Republican?

    mrt144 on
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Horrible shit done to one's fellow man "for science".

    The only difference between Tuskegee and an actually legitimate Nazi comparison is whether the science is valid and actually usable. If so, it's Tuskegee. If not, it's the Nazis.

    Gosling on
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  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Qingu wrote: »
    The only way I know how to come to terms with this kind of shit is to just accept that Republicans are going to ignore international law in the name of American exceptionalism and generally act like savages if they get into office. It's what they've done pretty consistently since Nixon. Bear in mind that like half of American citizens are okay with this kind of shit.

    Once you accept that half of America just is this way, you can move past the impotent rage and just concentrate on doing what you can to make sure they never get into office again.

    Man you've really calmed down as of late Qingu

    I was kind of hoping for the trademark Qingu incredulous rage that you're known for since this sickens me in pretty much every way possible, the least of which being breaking the 8th amendment to hell and back

    Rent on
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    Henroid on
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    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    And when the next anti-western group rises to prominence, you can bet that the majority of Americans will wonder why.

    TL DR on
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    And when the next anti-western group rises to prominence, you can bet that the majority of Americans will wonder why.
    Oh God, are you really priming an excuse for future terrorist attacks?

    You can't just say "Yeah, this is inhumane and we shouldn't be doing it" you have to run to bullshit like "It's stuff like this that causes terrorism!" like 9/11 happened because of the bad things we did during Vietnam or how we treated Native Americans. I'm sure Bin Laden would be saying those things if he knew people like you would be buying into it.

    Hoz on
  • agoajagoaj Now is the time of my revengeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Hoz wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    And when the next anti-western group rises to prominence, you can bet that the majority of Americans will wonder why.
    Oh God, are you really priming an excuse for future terrorist attacks?

    You can't just say "Yeah, this is inhumane and we shouldn't be doing it" you have to run to bullshit like "It's stuff like this that causes terrorism!" like 9/11 happened because of the bad things we did during Vietnam or how we treated Native Americans. I'm sure Bin Laden would be saying those things if he knew people like you would be buying into it.

    Osama Bin Laden wouldn't be saying anything if we hadn't funded him.

    agoaj on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Hoz wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    And when the next anti-western group rises to prominence, you can bet that the majority of Americans will wonder why.
    Oh God, are you really priming an excuse for future terrorist attacks?

    You can't just say "Yeah, this is inhumane and we shouldn't be doing it" you have to run to bullshit like "It's stuff like this that causes terrorism!" like 9/11 happened because of the bad things we did during Vietnam or how we treated Native Americans. I'm sure Bin Laden would be saying those things if he knew people like you would be buying into it.

    Um, no.

    His point is that, like all the previous times America has done horrible shit, most Americans will quickly forget about it and then wonder why people hate the US.

    Essentially, they don't learn.

    shryke on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Y'know. This Gitmo thing is really going to be riding on America's ass for a looooooooooooong time. :?

    And when the next anti-western group rises to prominence, you can bet that the majority of Americans will wonder why.
    Oh God, are you really priming an excuse for future terrorist attacks?

    You can't just say "Yeah, this is inhumane and we shouldn't be doing it" you have to run to bullshit like "It's stuff like this that causes terrorism!" like 9/11 happened because of the bad things we did during Vietnam or how we treated Native Americans. I'm sure Bin Laden would be saying those things if he knew people like you would be buying into it.

    Um, no.

    His point is that, like all the previous times America has done horrible shit, most Americans will quickly forget about it and then wonder why people hate the US.

    Essentially, they don't learn.

    'They hate us for our freedoms!'

    Santa Claustrophobia on
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 2010
    I'm only shocked because I thought Bush's administration was anti-science.

    Sterica on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I'm only shocked because I thought Bush's administration was anti-science.

    I'd hardly call what they were doing "science"

    override367 on
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I'm only shocked because I thought Bush's administration was anti-science.

    I'd hardly call what they were doing "science"

    I'd hardly call it experimenting, as well.



    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for war crimes charges, but it seems to me like they were trying to up the efficiency on their inhumane torturing, not actually conducting experiments.

    Evander on
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 2010
    I was making a joke, yeesh.

    Sterica on
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  • RaakamRaakam Too many years... CanadalandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Why does there seem to be such a massive disconnect between the citizens and the high ups in government? If I sample all my friends, I have a few more democrats than republicans, and none of them are batshit crazy. Where do the people who condone this sort of behavior live? Do you guys know anyone that would say "this is justified/a good thing"?
    It makes zero sense. Usually, they say follow the money and you'll find a reason. Where's the incentive here?

    I just can't seem to reconciliate my experience of the US with the reality of its government. So incredibly stupid.

    Raakam on
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