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Getting roomate to leave
Echrasis
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Registered User regular
Hello folks, long time lurker of these forums.
Back in August myself and "Matt" moved in together to an apartment. I don't believe there was any real lease in writing we were asked to pay deposit+first months rent before moving in. In October we invited "Andrew" to pay his share of the rent and move in with us, landlord was fine with it. Things were great until April when Matt quit his job without notice. Matt had money saved up so we were confident he would get a job, he never did, he hasn't even actually tried beyond a single resume he submitted online to a location I can't recall.
One day when talking with my mother I brought it up and she knew the owner of a landscaping company nearby and was more than happy to put in a good word for Matt. I asked Matt if he would want to do landscaping and he said yes, so I told him where the place was, to simply drop off a resume and put my mother's name on it and he'd be almost guaranteed a job doing something he wanted to do.
Matt never applied, in fact all he does is download movies and sit as his computer. He borrowed $500 from his family and spent it very poorly. Didn't use a cent of it on bills. He used the last of his money to pay for his share of rent, he's out of food, literally down to his last dollar, and I have reason to believe he's been stealing some of my food which I now have hidden from him.
Last month our power got turned off suddenly, the power bill is in Matts name, Andrew immediately went to the power company and paid 1/3 of the current overdue amount to have it turned on until the 10th of June. The same day I paid my share. Seeing as Matt had just borrowed $500 we thought he would pay his share. Well he hasn't, since we just found out he spent ALL of it. Andrew and I are not willing to pay his share as he doesn't have a way to pay either of us back if we did.
So tomorrow morning I'm going to the power company to ask for power in my own name, pay the deposit (well half since Andrew is giving me his share) and explain that Matt doesn't have any money and will be kicked out.
Me and Andrew want Matt to leave, he paid for this months rent but the power in his name is being cut off tomorrow, and I'm getting power in my name instead. He doesn't have any money to pay for any of the deposit/power in my name so should we let him stay until the end of the month since he paid for rent? We really want him gone asap (we resorted to hiding our food to starve him out..... I feel bad about it but he can't just steal from us,) but if we have to wait until the start of July for him to leave then we will have to put up with him until then. No idea how he will stay around with no food to mooch.
Any general advice on how to approach these upcoming awkward conversations, such as telling him to not steal food and to leave by date 'X'? Matt has been a friend for a few years so I feel awkward as I'm not good at confronting people. I don't want to emotionally crush Matt or cause him to get so overly defensive that he makes matters worse for everyone.
Back in August myself and "Matt" moved in together to an apartment. I don't believe there was any real lease in writing we were asked to pay deposit+first months rent before moving in. In October we invited "Andrew" to pay his share of the rent and move in with us, landlord was fine with it. Things were great until April when Matt quit his job without notice. Matt had money saved up so we were confident he would get a job, he never did, he hasn't even actually tried beyond a single resume he submitted online to a location I can't recall.
One day when talking with my mother I brought it up and she knew the owner of a landscaping company nearby and was more than happy to put in a good word for Matt. I asked Matt if he would want to do landscaping and he said yes, so I told him where the place was, to simply drop off a resume and put my mother's name on it and he'd be almost guaranteed a job doing something he wanted to do.
Matt never applied, in fact all he does is download movies and sit as his computer. He borrowed $500 from his family and spent it very poorly. Didn't use a cent of it on bills. He used the last of his money to pay for his share of rent, he's out of food, literally down to his last dollar, and I have reason to believe he's been stealing some of my food which I now have hidden from him.
Last month our power got turned off suddenly, the power bill is in Matts name, Andrew immediately went to the power company and paid 1/3 of the current overdue amount to have it turned on until the 10th of June. The same day I paid my share. Seeing as Matt had just borrowed $500 we thought he would pay his share. Well he hasn't, since we just found out he spent ALL of it. Andrew and I are not willing to pay his share as he doesn't have a way to pay either of us back if we did.
So tomorrow morning I'm going to the power company to ask for power in my own name, pay the deposit (well half since Andrew is giving me his share) and explain that Matt doesn't have any money and will be kicked out.
Me and Andrew want Matt to leave, he paid for this months rent but the power in his name is being cut off tomorrow, and I'm getting power in my name instead. He doesn't have any money to pay for any of the deposit/power in my name so should we let him stay until the end of the month since he paid for rent? We really want him gone asap (we resorted to hiding our food to starve him out..... I feel bad about it but he can't just steal from us,) but if we have to wait until the start of July for him to leave then we will have to put up with him until then. No idea how he will stay around with no food to mooch.
Any general advice on how to approach these upcoming awkward conversations, such as telling him to not steal food and to leave by date 'X'? Matt has been a friend for a few years so I feel awkward as I'm not good at confronting people. I don't want to emotionally crush Matt or cause him to get so overly defensive that he makes matters worse for everyone.
Echrasis on
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Tell him that he should leave at the end of the month.
Also, put it in writing and keep a copy for yourself, dated and signed, so he can't say he had no warning.
"It's nothing personal, but since you're not paying your bills we need you to be out of the apartment by X."
I think no matter what you say, he's going to get defensive. He was there before Andrew, he may be annoyed that Andrew is going to stay while he has to go, even if it is his own doing.
I agree with a lot of what you said (and appreciate all the advice so far) but letting him stay means he gets 1 month of utilities for free. The part about letting him have free food in addition is something I'm not really willing to do at this point. I don't have to feed him, even though it would be nice. It also serves as an easy "get the hell out" message.
Yes I agree that he probably will get defensive regardless of what I say, I'm hoping some with more experience with these type of situations has some insight on dealing with it.
Who moves into a rental without a written lease agreement? If there is in fact no contract, then this whole situation is pretty dodgy and it's not clear what rights you have under the circumstances. Some people think contracts are bad because it restricts what they can do, but the thing about contracts is that it protects both parties (assuming they actually paid attention to the contract before signing) by delineating what the terms and responsibilities of all parties are.
Most certainly noted for future reference, thank you. I thought about that and holy crap, I won't be making that mistake again. This particular city is known for lots of people working under the table rather high crime, and we're not in the best neighbourhood, though it isn't the worst, I should have expected this. :?
If he doesn't pay, kick him out. Don't put his property on the street though, keep it in a safe storage (his room). And for God Sake's get a written lease! Also you should try contacting his parents. That works 75% of the time.
I realize everything is about $$$ in the end, but this is coming off as very harsh.
Seems like there's a lack of communication from all parties. Tell him you're not his mommy and bills aren't paid by the magical bill fairy. He needs to get a job and pay you back from what you've already paid off for him or else he's gone.
I disagree with the "passive-aggressive" note approach. That probably won't help. Talk to him directly.
You and Andrew should just sit down with him, tell him you are concerned about his ability to pay his share, say "Look, we can pay your part of the utility this month, but that's it. If you have no job and can't pay your share at the end of this month, we'll need you to leave the apartment so we can get in a new roommate. We can't afford to cover for you financially all the time."
Yes, he is an adult and needs to cover himself, but these things happen. You also made a mistake by entering into this with nothing in writing. And heck, roommate situations are complicated. Definitely do not write some jerky note. Just tell him you are concerned and if he can't pay he has to leave.
Worse case he goes, "REASONS IT'S NOT MY FAULT" at you. You should just say, "I'm sorry, I know it's not you're fault. We just need a roommate who is contributing."
I'm sure you are frustrated by "Matt" who quit his job for no apparent reason in the middle of a bad economy & hasn't applied for new ones. That is very frustrating. However, just remember that he hasn't done that TO GET YOU--he's probably just a little screwed up right now.
Something I would be wary of is your relationship with the landlord; is there actually no lease, or is that something that's in his name too?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This. Especially since the power is in his name. If there is a lease, and its in his name, you're going to have a lot of trouble here (you won't be able to kick him out, and when he doesn't pay next month you might all get kicked out).
Talk to your land lord to find out and make a contingency plan.
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Regardless, he's not paying, so yeah, he either needs to pay up or get out. If you're feeling generous, pay all bills for June, and give him until the end of July to figure it out. This may include you and Andrew moving out, if there really is no contract and things are in Matt's name.
Some are suggesting kicking him out asap is too harsh. If you're deciding whether or not he'll be able to pull his weight in the future and you should maybe cut him a little slack, his lack of effort in finding a job certainly is relevant and makes it that much clearer he needs the boot.
It's a good followup, though.
I'd, personally, ask the landlord if he can help you with eviction too.
You don't have much choice either way. If he has payed the months rent he gets to stay for the next month, utilities are a seperate issue. Not to mention that you can't say to a paying tennant "get the hell out now". There are legal periods of notice for these things. I would let him know that you expect to be paid for utilities though.
There is no way to do this tactfully. You're telling someone something they don't want to hear which never goes down well. There are only two ways this is going to go down, bad and worse.
If you're shooting for bad then just sit down with him and be entirely business like and official about it. Start with something like "This is nothing personal but we can't afford to be subsidising your part of the utilities anymore, I'm giving you x amount of notice to move out".
Honestly, you could have said to the power company: "that guy moved, restart the power in my name" they'd have to go after him for his debt, and you guys could start free and clear.
Technically a no lease tenancy gives you a 30 day notice window, as i just did a bunch of research on this recently. the landlord can kick you out for no reason, as long as he gives you 30 days, and vice versa. if you are cool with that, then you don't need a lease. however, damage, your deposit, etc may be forfeit as there isn't anything in writing about it. evictions take forever, and they are expensive.
Also, start looking for a new place to live with the other roommate in case you need to leave.
Echrasis, these things happen, man. An electric bill split over 3 people? How much could that really be? 30 each? Pay his 1/3rd for this month unless it's 100$+ (in which case I am boggled at how you used so much electricity) and just sit him down and say, "Hey buddy. I know you're going through a tough time. I'm a little worried about the situation though, because I won't be able to float your bills. You're going to have to let us know if you are moving out this month or not, so we can find a new roommate."
I have experience with this stuff--I've dealt with similar situations before--I know it seems daunting, but trust me, if you sit down and calmly tell him that you just can't afford it, and say, "I know, dude, I know, I'm sorry you aren't finding a job" everytime he starts to get defensive, it will make it go really easy. Be on his side about how much stuff sucks for him, but firm about the fact that you can't pay his bills.
He isn't "not finding a job" he's just not looking at all. While $30 may not seem like a lot, there's a reason he's living with a roommate. And eviction may be a real possibility at this point if someone's not carrying their weight, and he also probably has legal grounds to get money back if he pays his roommates share. You can't just say to an electric company "yeah I'm only going to pay 1/3 of this bill, but you can't cut our power off because I still need to use it."
If you've ever been in this situation you'd know that usually the person on the other end will either:
A) take complete advantage of the situation
Neither are good options, and the third option is to get them to leave either by force (eviction might be possible, hence why I suggest asking the landlord to see what he'd recommend), by their own will, or because you moved out.
Do you want that? Do you want to be stuck with moving out right now, or having an obstinate, angry roommate who refuses to pay ANY rent for 6 months?
Bowen is looking at this from a moral standpoint. DON'T. You just want your apartment to be a relaxed place where rent & bills are paid. DO NOT engage the roommate on your morality.
Bowen is looking to castigate him "He's not looking at all" etc--yes, that is TRUE. But who cares? You don't want to fight with this guy. You just want him to move out.
My point is even if your roomie is Hitler, that is irrelevant. It's not about right or wrong. It's about saying, "I'm afraid you can't pay your share and I don't want to get screwed. Can you either pre-pay your rent AND utilities for next month or move out by end of the month"
A) take complete advantage of the situation
But he's ignoring the other possibility of POLITELY BRINGING IT UP. If that doesn't work, Bowen's 3rd option (Eviction) is not a real option. That means one guy living there for up to 6 months not paying anything and you getting screwed. The real 3rd option is you move out.
Where you are at is politely bringing this up & if he refuses, moving out. That is it.
It sounds as though the problem of him not having any money to pay bills has already been brought to this guy's attention.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
In some states, landlords can't even BEGIN filing for eviction until 30+ days AFTER the rent is late. In this case, because 2 other people are still paying rent, the landlord may not be able to file eviction until even LATER. The ops choice then is to stop paying rent, at which point he is included in the eviction process.
Hell if someone stays past their lease ending, you have to go through a similar process! it's retarded.
But yes, bring this up tactfully, but I'm telling you right now it's either he's going to take advantage of the situation or he's just going to get pissy and defensive and the OP is going to have to move out or try and get him evicted.
I am preempting the next thread where he posts "So roommate still doesn't have a job and is now using me to pay for his food, utilities, and rent, what do I do now?" The guy won't even get a job that's handed to him on a silver platter, this is not someone you want to try and bargain with at all, or "set up a relaxed place to live where everyone pays their bills."
If he gets approached and does offer to pay his bills and gets back on his feet, more power to you, but I'd advise on getting away from him as soon as you can afterwards.
Why in heavens name should they be pussyfooting around this? They gave him the chance to find a job; he did absolutely nothing. He was completely willing to allow their electricity to be SHUT OFF rather than find another way to pay the bill or even, I dunno, maybe informing his fucking roommates it was going to be shut off? Or maybe using the money he borrowed to pay for that, rather than spending it? He clearly didn't spend the money on food (he's stealing it), or bills (the electricity got shut off) so what IS he spending it on? This guy has handled this as poorly as possible with as little concern as possible about how his behavior affects his roommates.
Yeah, sure, approach him and tell him there's a problem: You're just going to get the same answer you got when you told him about the surefire job. "Yeah sure man, I'm on it." No. No he's probably not. Just make sure you expect this.
But for the sake of following all the proper forms, verbally communicate a deadline for paying the bills and give him a paper copy of this deadline. If (when) he doesn't make it, give him another notice, this time letting him know that your next course of action is to speak to the landlord about conviction. If (when) he STILL doesn't make that, start the 30-day eviction process. Landlords don't need a reason to evict, particularly when there's no lease; they can just post a notice giving you the minimum amount of time to move out (30 days in most states) and that's that.
And yeah maybe at some point talk to his parents. I guess. For what good it'll do.
Quit being passive aggressive just so you can avoid confrontation. Grow up and tell him you're not going to accommodate his ass, and he either needs to pay his bills, or get out.
THE NOTE IN HIS DOOR IS NOT FOR SENTIMENTAL PURPOSES, IT'S DONE AS A LEGAL RECOURSE
That way, if push comes to the shove, he can't argue that you didn't give him enough notice. Eviction takes 30 days, I've done it. If you've got everything in writing, it's damn easy to kick someone out.
The utilities problem is the least of your issues. This guy has no job whatsoever, he couldn't make the utilities this month, where do you think he is going to get the money for rent next month?
We have a saying in my country "clear accounting, long friendships". Pussyfooting about this will only compound the problem. When it comes to money, no good deed goes unpunished and there is no time for Mr. Nice Guy
Yes, this.
Also, if you really like this place, you could also look at your landlord about signing a new lease next month. Since there is nothing in writing, your landlord could give your friend 30 days notice to leave the place and then go and sign a new lease with you 2 and a new roommate. Then forgive the freeloader's debt in writing with the IRS and deduct it from your taxes :P
I mean seriously, he needs to grow a spine sometime! You really think going through eviction is a smarter move? You think leaving threatening notes around a house they both live in is not passive aggressive? The OP is not the landlord and has no legal power to evict anyone.
As for eviction:
The kid has paid his rent
Apparently there is no lease
The Landlord has no idea how much money he does/doesn't have. Do you think the landlord is going to start eviction procedure on someone because the OP says "Sir I think he will stop paying rent"?
Realistically, OP, you are looking at 4-6 months. Check tenant and housing laws in your state if you are unsure and honestly considering writing passive aggressive bs notes threatening eviction.
Just sit down with your roommate (who is always home in the house you live in!) and tell him that you can't afford it and you want him to move out or pay in advance. Seriously, how can that go more wrong then bs legal threats?
-Tenant violates lease agreement (oh you are screwed there, there is no lease)
-Landlord notifies tenant within 3-5 days of filing for eviction
-If tenant refuses to leave (which if this guy is a jerk he will do) you then need to take them to court
-It can take several weeks to a few months to get a court date
-Court case can result in: arbitration, litigation, or a judgement. A judgement could have them out in 3-5 days. Litigation or arbitration could drag on and not result in an eviction for 4 months.
Yes, I'm sure you've all seen a case where someone left a house voluntarily when threatened with eviction. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, what if this guy with no money decides, "screw it, I'll just stay here and fight the system. I don't got a job to go to."
What about the case where the landlord evicts all 3 of them, because it'll be just as messy as evicting one of them, and he doesn't want to deal with this nonsense?
I'm just saying you don't want it to get to this--before you litter the house with threatening notes, sit the dude down and talk. That's not a crazy proposition.
That does not mean he cannot be given a 30 day notice, which is eminently reasonable on the part of OP given that there is no evidence he will be able to make the rent in 30 days time anyway. We're not worried about a landlord initiating legal proceeding for breach of lease, because there is no lease; all OP needs to do is issue a 30 day notice. It does not take months to obtain compliance with a stipulated date to vacate. It just doesn't, and if it does in your area, something tremendously screwy is going on.
(yes, I realize a 30 day notice is not an "eviction" in the strict legal use of the term.)
OP has still not really made clear the specifics of his rental arrangement, so it's not really clear whether he should issue the 30 days on his own or talk to the landlord about the situation.
To get to the rest of your post, there is nothing wrong with talking to the guy about his situation, but it sounds like that has already happened and has not been productive.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat