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Let's Discuss Cars
stah
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I've been bitten by the new car bug. Well, more of the "new to me" car bug, but still. :P
I'm still a few months off (about 3 - 6 really) but I like to get a jump start of finding exactly what I want. With my last car (2002 Ford Focus), I did a lot of research before I found the car and knew exactly what I was looking for and what to expect as it gained in years. Now I've grown out of the Focus (I'll most likely still keep it as a beater), so I'm wanting something a little more fun to drive. So I turn to PA to help makes suggestions on cars.
Basically, what I'm asking is for suggestions to go along with the cars I'm looking at below. I'm planning on spending between $16K - $20K. Only other real rule is it needs to be "sporty" (I consider muscles cars sporty). Keep in mind, I'm in South Carolina so I don't have to worry much about snow/ice.
Right now, I'm really leaning towards an '05 - '08 Ford Mustang V8 w/ 5-Speed transmission. The biggest issue I have with this is gas mileage will be terrible and there is no auxiliary input in the radio stock (that I've seen). But, it's got the power and has a nice after market (I've never modified my cars but a strong after market means parts are generally cheaper, too).
Next up is the '07 - '08 Mazdaspeed3. It's fast, it has a ton of nice features (it is considered a top of the line model), and it has received extremely great reviews. But it looks extremely "Fast and Furious"-ish. Also, I'm not sure how fun it would be to work on a complex turbo engine.
Finally, I've considered an '06 - '08 Nissan 350Z. It looks the part and has a nice engine, but it is a 2-seater. I know the Infiniti is pretty much the same car with 2+2 seating, but my room mate has that and I'm not sure how I feel about having the same car as him. Plus, it's rare to find a manual transmission in an Infiniti.
Anyway, I'd really like some opinions on these cars or maybe even some horror stories about them. I'd also like some suggestions about other cars that are similar that I may have overlooked.
Thanks!
I'm still a few months off (about 3 - 6 really) but I like to get a jump start of finding exactly what I want. With my last car (2002 Ford Focus), I did a lot of research before I found the car and knew exactly what I was looking for and what to expect as it gained in years. Now I've grown out of the Focus (I'll most likely still keep it as a beater), so I'm wanting something a little more fun to drive. So I turn to PA to help makes suggestions on cars.
Basically, what I'm asking is for suggestions to go along with the cars I'm looking at below. I'm planning on spending between $16K - $20K. Only other real rule is it needs to be "sporty" (I consider muscles cars sporty). Keep in mind, I'm in South Carolina so I don't have to worry much about snow/ice.
Right now, I'm really leaning towards an '05 - '08 Ford Mustang V8 w/ 5-Speed transmission. The biggest issue I have with this is gas mileage will be terrible and there is no auxiliary input in the radio stock (that I've seen). But, it's got the power and has a nice after market (I've never modified my cars but a strong after market means parts are generally cheaper, too).
Next up is the '07 - '08 Mazdaspeed3. It's fast, it has a ton of nice features (it is considered a top of the line model), and it has received extremely great reviews. But it looks extremely "Fast and Furious"-ish. Also, I'm not sure how fun it would be to work on a complex turbo engine.
Finally, I've considered an '06 - '08 Nissan 350Z. It looks the part and has a nice engine, but it is a 2-seater. I know the Infiniti is pretty much the same car with 2+2 seating, but my room mate has that and I'm not sure how I feel about having the same car as him. Plus, it's rare to find a manual transmission in an Infiniti.
Anyway, I'd really like some opinions on these cars or maybe even some horror stories about them. I'd also like some suggestions about other cars that are similar that I may have overlooked.
Thanks!
stah on
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I've only been in a Stang once and the experience was lacking sensible components. A lot of the vehicle simply didn't...make...sense, but it looked cool from the outside.
I've heard good things about the Mazda. Then again, it looks like a hybrid caravan, hatchback.
You obviously want a fast car. My recommendation is the BMW M3.
MS3: God dang these are cars. A lot of power (almost too much for the lightweight FWD design), decent fuel economy if you stay off the displacement modifier and, like you said, a lot of features. Mazda tends to have problems with their radio/dash systems though, from being erratic light flashing to complete cutting out. The engine is fairly complicated, but for routine maintenance it's no worse than most others
350Z: Cramped. Enthusiast car, almost to the core. They're not comfortable, they feel like they're riding on bricks, but holy hell are they FUN to drive. Excellent driving experience; you feel (and are in control of) near everything. Not too easy to work on though
My thoughts on the Infiniti - Now that's a car worth ponying up for. The G35 coupe is, like you said, a 2+2 350Z with nicer appointments. Suspension is easier to deal with, it's a good bit more comfortable and a lot of the coupés were built with 6MTs. However what takes the cake for me is the G35 Sport sedan. More room than a single gent needs. Still got that 300+ hp VQ35DE, can be found in 6MT trim and just looks, sounds and feels like a badass
PSN - MicroChrist
I'm too fuckin' poor to play
WordsWFriends - zeewoot
They're also not significantly worse gas mileage than other cars with similar performance. Another thing to keep in mind is that I get way higher highway mileage than the car is actually rated at.
To me, the biggest thing to watch out for is the shifter. The shifters tend to be way too far forward and some people just can't get used to it.
the cars you described are really different, and fulfill different roles... a FWD turbo hatchback is quite different than a large displacement RWD luxury coupe...
drive all the cars on your list and then decide
i'd also highly suggest a mazda miata as they're fun as hell and a convertible top is a great bonus on your 2nd sporty car... then try a Subaru WRX and a Mitsubishi Evo - Turbo AWD is a VERY different experience and worth trying IMHO - you might love it
I had a SHO... First Gen, 5 Speed manual. God that thing was fun to drive.
And back to the OP, yes, while my personal preference is the Mustang, you should follow illig's advice and go drive several of them. Those are all different cars that are fun to drive in different ways.
I looked at the 350z, but I "sit wide" when I drive, so my thigh was often rubbing against the seat adjustment lever, which is on top of the goddamn seat. No idea why they did this. It irritated the shit out of me... so I bought the GT.
Though I'd recommend getting an 05 or newer as they have slightly different throttle programing.
I'm not at all biased
The Miata, though....eh... no thanks...
How is the M3, price wise? Looks like an '05 M3 with 70K miles is still bringing $25K. That's a good bit out of my price range. Not to mention that it would be pretty expensive to fix when/if it broke down. And I'm pretty sure I remember them having some issues from the factory, too.
As far as room goes, I'm not too concerned with that. I'm 5'3" and around 150 lbs. so I'm rather compact.
I intend to test drive a few cars when I get closer to a buy date, but I'd don't want to exclude something I might end up liking later.
Surely you could just get an STI to begin with for the same money or less?
To O.P., Mustangs are pretty cool.As for the difference between working on the 'Stang motor and a Mazdaspeed3, well they both use most of the same engine technologies. It's easier to screw big numbers out of the 'Stang donk though, what with bolt-on blower kits you can fit in your backyard in a couple of hours.
Pontiac GTO - not particularly pretty, but it's a beast cause it's got a corvette engine in it.
Maxda RX-8 - sporty and kinda posh. Wankel engine means it's very free-revving.
Volvo S40 T5
Mazdaspeed 6
2008 VW R32
Not sure if those can be had for under 20K. The R32 probably isn't that cheap yet.
Someone mentioned the audio/center console issues. Mine came with a known problem regarding the audio (I have the Bose system). But it was a free fix at the dealership. If you get one and notice the volume takes a huge jump from 34 to 35, get it checked out.
Also, it comes from the factory with summer only tires, so if you plan on driving in snow or in temps below 40 degrees, expect to invest in a set of snow tires.
Sure a WRX STI or an EVO or Cobalt SS might beat you off the line, but you'll catch them in the long run and beat them from any rolling start, plus you'll have a waaay nicer interior than any of them for the same price or cheaper.
These are all qualities that good sports cars have, but in your price range, they wont have all of them. What's your expected usage? Will you just be commuting, do you travel a lot in the car, how much do you want to spend in maintenance? Have you considered insurance? How concerned are you with what other people will think of your ride?
think you'll find that most, if not all, high powered FWD cars have torque steer issues.
I test drove a Beretta GT back in 90 or 91. All it had was the 3.1L V6, but jeez that thing had horrible torque steer problems when you put it down.
Correct. Expensive to buy, expensive to fix, but if you have money that shouldn't be an issue.
Shop around. I've seen a few for under $20k.
I bet you could get a pretty cheap 3000GT VR4 these days. Hmm, what else is fast...
What about a Ford Lightning or Dodge SRT-10?
PSN - MicroChrist
I'm too fuckin' poor to play
WordsWFriends - zeewoot
Those things are beasts and pretty cheap
PM me if you want some more details, but basically it was a dream to own/drive and I never had a problem.
And since I'm a horrible narcissist, here's a pic:
5.0, 412HP, 390 lb-ft. Yes, it's about $10k out of your price range. But, it's much better to wait a little bit to get a much superior drivetrain.
The 4.6 is junk by today's standard. I have a 4.6, and I look at it in shame. The 4.6 is Ford testament of use to being unable to design a engine. The 5.0 is Ford testament that they finally gotten their heads out of their asses.
And hell, the 2011 V6 model is one hell of a monster also, and it's much closer to your budget new.
I honestly do not recommend owning anything from BMW, unless you're willing to sell it once warranty is out.
The MS3 is a pretty awesome car. The MS3 uses the updated Focus Chassis, so if you like the driving dynamics of your Focus, then the MS3 will have a much improved feel to it. I don't like the steering response on the MS3, though.
The Z cars are alright, but I would rather have the 370Z.
Some other cars to look at are the:
Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Mini Cooper S
Pontiac G8
Mazda Miata
WRX
I'm not sure if the STi and the LanEvo used market have dropped enough in price to be in your budget, but these are some wicked ass cars.
Unless you are just looking to have a new sporty car, I'm partial to the e36 M3, but the e46 has about 50 more HP. For that budget, i'd throw my vote for the g35, they are an absolute blast to drive.....and have a bolt on supercharger that makes em retarded fun. and probably dangerous. Stay far, far away from the 3000GT VR4, look at an EVO instead...I dont think i could bring myself to buy a mitsubishi though, The STI is also very fun, and pretty good for cost of ownership.
I also would advise against most anything from Dodge/chrysler, beyond the Challenger they havent done anything worthwhile in years. I'm not a Ford fan either, but the new Mustang is pretty sweet. The new camaro is 300hp base model, i think 22-25, you'd have to look to be sure.
Also check out a 6.0 GTO, same chassis as the Camaro, 400HP (i think, maybe 350) and is incredible fun.
Or just get a C63 AMG :O
Oh, the reason I replied in the first place. All car repair sucks, but it's key to find a good independent mechanic to take your car to, whatever you get. First he'll probably be more honest, and charge less per hour for labor. BMW/Mercedes do have more expensive parts, but then again, so do basically all performance cars.
No. No way. Nice motor, sure, but that's about it. Shit Chassis, crap suspension, too heavy (unless you fancy yourself a ship captain and enjoy yelling "She's Listing" as you round corners).
If you're set on american style muscle, You're basically stuck with a newer Mustang, which is a nice car, or a Brand new Camaro, which is also a nice car. Chrysler hasn't had the capital to invest in new chassis, suspension or anything for a long time, and it shows.
Not that the Camaro is a new chassis, but it's a good one.
I really have to push the GTO, they are getting cheaper used, find a nice 6.0 and give it a spin. Fast, comfortable, easy to work on, and a blast to drive.
A good car is a good car.
That said, I'd recommend going for a Monaro (I think the Pontiac GTO in your crazy country?) Powerful, sleek, doesn't have a crappy feature list the way I hear Mustang's do.
Small turbo engine + AWD rules.
I agree with the EVO's looks argument. I think it's the wing that I don't like. However, the power is def. there.
My family has always done their own auto repair. The only time we'll take a car to a shop is if we can't fix an issue in a weekend and it's a daily driver or something. It makes for a much harder sell if I have to take it to the shop, tbh.
Everyone, thanks for the replies. And keep them coming. The recommendations are very helpful.
this
NOT this
Ours look a bit different... You guys got boned in the looks department!
Well, a lot of people have this idea that it's somehow harder to work on German cars. It really isn't, but getting a proper toolset for them will be a bit costly. If you are getting a newer one, then you might have some things you can't do, due to advanced computer systems.
I'm more of an old car guy myself....Gimmie an E30 M3
What?!? Are you blind?
Also, your comment about the Pontiac GTO having the same chassis as the Camaro, well, both of those cars are variants of the Holden Commodore platform from Australia. The GTO is the shortened coupe version of the 1999-2005 model sedan which was also sold here as a Monaro and, in Australia at least, handles beautifully. In Australia there is a performance house much like RUF or AMG for Holden, called HSV (Holden Special Vehicles). They actually produced a special model of the Monaro called the Coupe4, which was rear-biased AWD with the LS1 motor.
I haven't driven a U.S. spec model of the Monaro, but common 'localisation' practice is to change the suspension out for something more comfort focused when Holden ships platforms to the U.S.
The Camaro is a coupe version of the 2006 onwards Commodore platform developed specifically for America. According to the motoring press it is definitely softer and less responsive than the Sedan it is based on, tuned for American preferences.
I'm well aware of Holden's car making habits. And i hate them for being in Australia.
The GTO is a very well-behaved car, even under tire twisting full throttle launches. I can't compare the 2, though I'm sure someone has, but it handles very well, if the Holden handles better, thats pretty incredible.
My dream car is an E30 M3. That is until they make an "M" version of the 1 series.
They basically have the same suspension and drivetrain as a WRX, but with a much classier body and interior (woo leather) Its a car you can have fun in, and then drive a non car person around in and not feel like a greasemonkey
I recommend the 2005, you can get them fairly easily with a 5 speed (surprisingly) and they dont have any silly electronic nannies (except ABS).
The only thing I was hesitant to do on mine was spark plugs, but otherwise they are very easy to work on.
You guys get the 135 M Sport over there? Real nice set of wheels.
Wicked Uncle Ernie? I genuinely cannot understand how you find this:
better looking than this:
DOES NOT COMPUTE!
Over where? I'm in the US, so far as I know they don't make an M1 yet.