Yeah, they are in fact intensely gimped compared to freeforms. Even if your freeform takes the exact same things in the exact same order, they get more powers faster and more overall points. Plus most of the archetypes bury game-changers at the end of the build
Counterpoint: Most of the game content is trivially easy with a well designed freeform unless the player deliberately creates a weakness in his build or bases his build off a strict concept that inherits such weaknesses.
ATs have conceptual weaknesses, and the game provides a better level of challenge for them.
Yeah, I'm still using a F2P character and the only time the game has challenged me was when I did the Aftershocks thing (don't know what to call it), and even that was beatable after my buddy and I remembered how to pull small groups of enemies instead of just jumping into all of them.
edit: and all of the enemies were higher level than us too
Yeah, they are in fact intensely gimped compared to freeforms. Even if your freeform takes the exact same things in the exact same order, they get more powers faster and more overall points. Plus most of the archetypes bury game-changers at the end of the build
Counterpoint: Most of the game content is trivially easy with a well designed freeform unless the player deliberately creates a weakness in his build or bases his build off a strict concept that inherits such weaknesses.
ATs have conceptual weaknesses, and the game provides a better level of challenge for them.
Yeah, I'm still using a F2P character and the only time the game has challenged me was when I did the Aftershocks thing (don't know what to call it), and even that was beatable after my buddy and I remembered how to pull small groups of enemies instead of just jumping into all of them.
edit: and all of the enemies were higher level than us too
Exactly, the game just aint that hard.
Freeforms are almost unkillable outside of PvP unless they are actively attempting suicide. And actually, there's one mission in the desert where you have to allow yourself to be defeated and imprisoned in an enemy base, and I've had characters who had trouble getting killed when I was trying to die.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
So, uh, turns out Resistance wasn't really soloable.
HALP HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS GOATEE'D MIRROR UNIVERSE
It's completely soloable. I've soloed it on 3 characters already
Oh, I can kill shit easily enough, but not the part where I need to blow up the jet because the demo guy keeps getting killed.
edit: though to be fair, that character had no AOE to speak of to get the enemies off him.
Echo on
0
MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Had a cool moment on that part during an Elite run where my support/control character zipped in on her fire flight just after the rest of the team got wiped and managed to save the demo on the last bit of their life with a lucky Mindful Reinforcement.
Good times.
MrVyngaard on
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
So, uh, turns out Resistance wasn't really soloable.
HALP HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS GOATEE'D MIRROR UNIVERSE
It's completely soloable. I've soloed it on 3 characters already
Oh, I can kill shit easily enough, but not the part where I need to blow up the jet because the demo guy keeps getting killed.
edit: though to be fair, that character had no AOE to speak of to get the enemies off him.
Without aoe it's harder for sure. I had that issue with one of mine Alts. The trick is to make your stand as far from the plane as possible. On the ramp they charge up.
So, uh, turns out Resistance wasn't really soloable.
HALP HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS GOATEE'D MIRROR UNIVERSE
It's completely soloable. I've soloed it on 3 characters already
Oh, I can kill shit easily enough, but not the part where I need to blow up the jet because the demo guy keeps getting killed.
edit: though to be fair, that character had no AOE to speak of to get the enemies off him.
There's a trick to that part. Go no farther east than the demo guys themselves, talk to the guy, and send them off. Do not follow. Remain at the spawn point and go no further east. As long as you don't get in range, no enemies will spawn, and the demo guys will blow up the jet on their own just fine.
Bri and I were duoing it, level 20 on normal difficulty. It's just impossible for me to do anything to Endbringer as a melee without getting instantly gibbed, and Bri didn't have the damage or defenses with her muni character to kill it on her own.
Bri and I were duoing it, level 20 on normal difficulty. It's just impossible for me to do anything to Endbringer as a melee without getting instantly gibbed, and Bri didn't have the damage or defenses with her muni character to kill it on her own.
Bring a ranged character with properly statted regen. Watch in awe as it obliterates the Endbringer by kiting it to death.
Alternatively, bump the difficulty down. Resistance is very much a "group instance" sort of deal. It doesn't appear that way, but there's some areas that are specifically designed to screw you up if you don't have a healer, or a tank.
You can maybe squeeze by them with a twinked build. But you're going to be fighting bosses like the end boss for an hour if you do it that way. You'd be better off just doing a very hard run, since you'll spend about as much time fighting them, and will get the wings guaranteed.
This is especially truer on the higher difficulties (Which give the rare costume drops.). You need a group of well geared (IE: Blue, at least.) fifties to do it accurately, and god help you if you don't have someone who can heal and tank.
Archonex on
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2011
I am ranged, but I have medic drones rather than regen. My passive is targeting computer.
*shrug* I see it just isn't for me.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
I am ranged, but I have medic drones rather than regen. My passive is targeting computer.
*shrug* I see it just isn't for me.
Medical drones are good. But for Shadow Destroyer/Endbringer, you probably really want a defensive passive, if you're going to duo it. I imagine they can outDPS your heals, otherwise.
The plus side of that is, if you can get a full group, you'll make for a good DPSer if you stick with targeting computer.
You'll make a better DPSer if you replace it with Aura of Primal Majesty and change literally nothing else, though. Silly broken game.
I found that soloing Resistance on a DPS character, the best thing to do in the final fight is to let your NPC buddy hold aggro. Keep distance, break off and start blocking if things aggro to you.
I went back in solo later and wiped the floor with Endbringer by dashing in, spamming Dragons Claws then block-retreating when I drew aggro until Dr. D regained aggro then repeating. It took a little while but it wasn't too bad.
I wish the difficulty didn't jump so dramatically when you go in with just two people. It's unreasonable to expect a duo to cover the holy trinity.
Downloaded and started playing this game again on Friday. I hadnt played since the Open Beta.
Created a Psi Sentinal, which was rough starting out, but now that I have my heal ability, it is so much easier. Just hit level 15 after finishing the first couple of parts of the UNTIL instance mission in hell.
I keep trying to create an alt, but get totally stymied creating a power set and costume that goes well together in my mind.
There's so much about this game I admire, but it just isn't large enough in scope and when they expand the scope its either high level zones (that prevent me seeing them until I grind up), or its adventure packs that seem needlessly drawn out in length.
I get that any company has to maximize cost of development, by lengthening the time to complete (or even access) them, but for someone with limited time to play, it just got to be too much.
There are some outstanding elements to this game though:
You can interact with objects.
You can create a nemesis (although why this is not expanded and enhanced I have no idea, its one of the best features in the game).
It had a very decent character generator and it provided easy access to travel powers.
You can capture a recording of the game and replay it in a player that allows you full control over the replay, including camera, lighting and even options to change objects. It meant Champions had one of the best machinima capability of any MMO I've ever played. It became even more versatile than the WOW object tools.
I think I've resolved that my Champions days are over. But I tell you, this is an underrated MMO. As much as I may gripe about its short comings (and there are many), I had a blast playing this game.
So I'm trying this out for the first time today, and everything I've read online said you can't acquire Atari Tokens from playing through the game, unlike say DDO or LotRO. Yet I randomly got 80 Tokens at some point in time. The hell?
There's so much about this game I admire, but it just isn't large enough in scope and when they expand the scope its either high level zones (that prevent me seeing them until I grind up), or its adventure packs that seem needlessly drawn out in length.
I get that any company has to maximize cost of development, by lengthening the time to complete (or even access) them, but for someone with limited time to play, it just got to be too much.
There are some outstanding elements to this game though:
You can interact with objects.
You can create a nemesis (although why this is not expanded and enhanced I have no idea, its one of the best features in the game).
It had a very decent character generator and it provided easy access to travel powers.
You can capture a recording of the game and replay it in a player that allows you full control over the replay, including camera, lighting and even options to change objects. It meant Champions had one of the best machinima capability of any MMO I've ever played. It became even more versatile than the WOW object tools.
I think I've resolved that my Champions days are over. But I tell you, this is an underrated MMO. As much as I may gripe about its short comings (and there are many), I had a blast playing this game.
I know what you mean. This is one that I get bored with but come back to repeatedly.
As far as having to grind up to see content well, it's really not that bad. I have six level 40 characters now, and I have to say, it's worth sticking with a single character long enough to see Monster island, Lemuria, and Vibora Bay. I find the stretch from level 20 to level 28 to be a bit boring, and then there is a stretch in the mid 30's for a couple levels where the content is thin unless you obsessively completed every quest up to that point, or are willing to go to Vibora Bay (where the mission content is very grindy like the adventure packs).
The adventure packs, as far as I'm concerned, are there for gear and challenge. They are a very poor way to level. The exp is abysmally slow compared to doing the regular missions. However, they present some of the best solo challenge in the game, and the gear you can get is superior. So there is a place for them.
Vibora Bay, aside from the crisis, I have almost no use for. It's a neat zone that is filled with awful missions that give worthless rewards. We'll have to wait and see if they learned from their mistakes when and if they ever present a new zone. The Vibora Bay crisis is awesome though.
Vibora Bay, aside from the crisis, I have almost no use for. It's a neat zone that is filled with awful missions that give worthless rewards. We'll have to wait and see if they learned from their mistakes when and if they ever present a new zone. The Vibora Bay crisis is awesome though.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. VB is on the surface a cool place, but the crypt parts are goddamn horrible.
EDIT: I think they could be alleviated somewhat if they'd improve the fucking miserable ingame map ui system. It's just so sloppy.
MrVyngaard on
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
0
ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
It'd also help if the crypts weren't using non-euclidean geometry.
How the fuck these Crypts and Vibora Bay's sewers fit together in the same city, without becoming some sort of horrid, corpse infested shit-hole, is beyond me. Some of these crypts seem to be the size of multiple city blocks.
Archonex on
0
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2011
It's because it is a video game. That and because city public works departments are not staffed by level designers.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Posts
Yeah, I'm still using a F2P character and the only time the game has challenged me was when I did the Aftershocks thing (don't know what to call it), and even that was beatable after my buddy and I remembered how to pull small groups of enemies instead of just jumping into all of them.
edit: and all of the enemies were higher level than us too
Exactly, the game just aint that hard.
Freeforms are almost unkillable outside of PvP unless they are actively attempting suicide. And actually, there's one mission in the desert where you have to allow yourself to be defeated and imprisoned in an enemy base, and I've had characters who had trouble getting killed when I was trying to die.
When do I get my 400 points?
Better than Swinging?
Better than Lightspeed?
Better than Rainbow Flight?
No way, sir.
Still though, I don't see how anything could be more fun than jumping around like a spastic child who just downed 7 energy drinks
HALP HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS GOATEE'D MIRROR UNIVERSE
I made a Heavy Weapons viking dude with tanky/soloing stuff. He wrecks shit real good.
I know your pain.
2h weapons is way too much fun, but so is Martial Arts.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
It's completely soloable. I've soloed it on 3 characters already
Oh, I can kill shit easily enough, but not the part where I need to blow up the jet because the demo guy keeps getting killed.
edit: though to be fair, that character had no AOE to speak of to get the enemies off him.
Good times.
Without aoe it's harder for sure. I had that issue with one of mine Alts. The trick is to make your stand as far from the plane as possible. On the ramp they charge up.
There's a trick to that part. Go no farther east than the demo guys themselves, talk to the guy, and send them off. Do not follow. Remain at the spawn point and go no further east. As long as you don't get in range, no enemies will spawn, and the demo guys will blow up the jet on their own just fine.
My travel power hotkey stopped working. Have to click it with the mouse.
Edit: Fed up enough with it to just log off.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Probably my fault. >.> Wha' happen?
Bri and I were duoing it, level 20 on normal difficulty. It's just impossible for me to do anything to Endbringer as a melee without getting instantly gibbed, and Bri didn't have the damage or defenses with her muni character to kill it on her own.
Bring a ranged character with properly statted regen. Watch in awe as it obliterates the Endbringer by kiting it to death.
Alternatively, bump the difficulty down. Resistance is very much a "group instance" sort of deal. It doesn't appear that way, but there's some areas that are specifically designed to screw you up if you don't have a healer, or a tank.
You can maybe squeeze by them with a twinked build. But you're going to be fighting bosses like the end boss for an hour if you do it that way. You'd be better off just doing a very hard run, since you'll spend about as much time fighting them, and will get the wings guaranteed.
This is especially truer on the higher difficulties (Which give the rare costume drops.). You need a group of well geared (IE: Blue, at least.) fifties to do it accurately, and god help you if you don't have someone who can heal and tank.
*shrug* I see it just isn't for me.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Medical drones are good. But for Shadow Destroyer/Endbringer, you probably really want a defensive passive, if you're going to duo it. I imagine they can outDPS your heals, otherwise.
The plus side of that is, if you can get a full group, you'll make for a good DPSer if you stick with targeting computer.
I found that soloing Resistance on a DPS character, the best thing to do in the final fight is to let your NPC buddy hold aggro. Keep distance, break off and start blocking if things aggro to you.
I wish the difficulty didn't jump so dramatically when you go in with just two people. It's unreasonable to expect a duo to cover the holy trinity.
Created a Psi Sentinal, which was rough starting out, but now that I have my heal ability, it is so much easier. Just hit level 15 after finishing the first couple of parts of the UNTIL instance mission in hell.
I keep trying to create an alt, but get totally stymied creating a power set and costume that goes well together in my mind.
MWO: Adamski
I get that any company has to maximize cost of development, by lengthening the time to complete (or even access) them, but for someone with limited time to play, it just got to be too much.
There are some outstanding elements to this game though:
You can interact with objects.
You can create a nemesis (although why this is not expanded and enhanced I have no idea, its one of the best features in the game).
It had a very decent character generator and it provided easy access to travel powers.
You can capture a recording of the game and replay it in a player that allows you full control over the replay, including camera, lighting and even options to change objects. It meant Champions had one of the best machinima capability of any MMO I've ever played. It became even more versatile than the WOW object tools.
I think I've resolved that my Champions days are over. But I tell you, this is an underrated MMO. As much as I may gripe about its short comings (and there are many), I had a blast playing this game.
I know what you mean. This is one that I get bored with but come back to repeatedly.
As far as having to grind up to see content well, it's really not that bad. I have six level 40 characters now, and I have to say, it's worth sticking with a single character long enough to see Monster island, Lemuria, and Vibora Bay. I find the stretch from level 20 to level 28 to be a bit boring, and then there is a stretch in the mid 30's for a couple levels where the content is thin unless you obsessively completed every quest up to that point, or are willing to go to Vibora Bay (where the mission content is very grindy like the adventure packs).
The adventure packs, as far as I'm concerned, are there for gear and challenge. They are a very poor way to level. The exp is abysmally slow compared to doing the regular missions. However, they present some of the best solo challenge in the game, and the gear you can get is superior. So there is a place for them.
Vibora Bay, aside from the crisis, I have almost no use for. It's a neat zone that is filled with awful missions that give worthless rewards. We'll have to wait and see if they learned from their mistakes when and if they ever present a new zone. The Vibora Bay crisis is awesome though.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. VB is on the surface a cool place, but the crypt parts are goddamn horrible.
EDIT: I think they could be alleviated somewhat if they'd improve the fucking miserable ingame map ui system. It's just so sloppy.
How the fuck these Crypts and Vibora Bay's sewers fit together in the same city, without becoming some sort of horrid, corpse infested shit-hole, is beyond me. Some of these crypts seem to be the size of multiple city blocks.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.