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Bioware goes episodic?

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Posts

  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I don't see episodic content working out. For it to be effective, each 'episode' has to be pretty much self encapsulated otherwise they're unsatisfying. And that's not what Valve and others are doing, with the exception of Sam and Max. Most developers doing episodic content are doing continuations of the main storyline and that just isn't effective or satisfying to gamers because there's no sense of completion or continuity or even a real sense of accomplishment when you play for 3-4 hours and then have to wait 12-18 months for the next part.

    JWFokker on
  • BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Predator wrote:
    I thought the Sam and Max games were proof of the episodic concept.


    Its pretty much the only proof.
    HL2 Episode 2 is coming out a year and a half after Episode 1.
    SiN Episode 2 hasnt even been really talked about all that much.

    But, in a funny way, this shows one of the strengths of episode content. Publishers don't have to pump as much cash into something to find out if it's a flop or not, and with a publisher taking less of a risk on a game, it could offer the developer more creative control over the project.

    But it makes me wonder, again, why would Bioware want to take this route? The real advantages of episodic content don't really apply to them since they have such an excellent track record.

    Beck on
    Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
  • Gaming-ModuleGaming-Module Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I really feel guilty about purchasing all of the Oblivion addons, thus making the game essentially $80, but I'm getting my money's worth, so whatever.

    It's those 10 hour affairs that get 2 hour expansions that cost half of what the game originally cost that aren't getting any of my money.

    Gaming-Module on
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Beck wrote:
    Predator wrote:
    I thought the Sam and Max games were proof of the episodic concept.


    Its pretty much the only proof.
    HL2 Episode 2 is coming out a year and a half after Episode 1.
    SiN Episode 2 hasnt even been really talked about all that much.

    But, in a funny way, this shows one of the strengths of episode content. Publishers don't have to pump as much cash into something to find out if it's a flop or not, and with a publisher taking less of a risk on a game, it could offer the developer more creative control over the project.

    But it makes me wonder, again, why would Bioware want to take this route? The real advantages of episodic content don't really apply to them since they have such an excellent track record.

    $


    ...


    any questions?

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I wonder if BioWare could delegate some of these episodes off to Pandemic. Hopefully then we'd get them faster than Valve's been pumping them out.

    His Corkiness on
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    .....KoToR's combat was very far from impressive. Maybe it was better on the X-Box, but on the PC it was more clunky than anything else. I loved the game, but not because of the combat. The best part about it was that it was pretty easy to get used to and once you were engrossed in the game you didn't really notice how clunky it was anymore.

    Cilla Black on
  • PredatorPredator __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    Kotors combat pretty much turned into Cast force lightning on everyone in the room.
    watch them die.

    edit: which was actually totally fucking awesome.

    Predator on
    1330my4.jpg
  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Yeah, all the force powers were pretty much the best part about the combat.

    Cilla Black on
  • LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What's good about episodic content is the developers can focus completely on one thing at a time, ensuring greater quality, and respond to feedback better. It works, and I like it, but I can see why some people wouldn't.

    Quality versus quantity, really.

    LaCabra on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Accualt wrote:
    The stuff will never go on sale, either. There isn't enough incentive to put it on sale because it isn't taking up valuable retail space that needs to be filled with new product.

    That...isn't the only reason stuff goes on sale.

    Bioware puts their modules on sale every once in awhile.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Zilla84 wrote:
    .....KoToR's combat was very far from impressive. Maybe it was better on the X-Box, but on the PC it was more clunky than anything else. I loved the game, but not because of the combat. The best part about it was that it was pretty easy to get used to and once you were engrossed in the game you didn't really notice how clunky it was anymore.
    The xbox probably was better.
    Since were on the subject of kotor...any announcments about 3?

    Gorilla Salad on
  • corin7corin7 San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Rami wrote:

    And with Oblivion, love the game, yet not interested in a single one of the extras. But I am looking forward to the proper expansion pack.

    That really is a damn shame. Mehrune's Razor was pretty much the best part of that game.

    corin7 on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    JWFokker wrote:
    I don't see episodic content working out. For it to be effective, each 'episode' has to be pretty much self encapsulated otherwise they're unsatisfying. And that's not what Valve and others are doing, with the exception of Sam and Max. Most developers doing episodic content are doing continuations of the main storyline and that just isn't effective or satisfying to gamers because there's no sense of completion or continuity or even a real sense of accomplishment when you play for 3-4 hours and then have to wait 12-18 months for the next part.

    This is exactly how I feel.

    Now if each Episode was its own little story, lets say like a TV series. Where there is an over arcing story, but for the most part each episode is its own adventure I think that would be cool.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'd actually like to do an unofficial survey about this, if anyone wants to respond.

    1. Would you buy an Episodic RPG that had a finite length, but was released in Acts?

    2. How much would you expect to pay for an episode of 20 hours estimated playtime?

    3. What do you dislike most about the idea of episodic content:
    Wait between episodes
    Changes to the mechanics
    Lack of satisfaction

    4. What is the longest and preferred amount of time between episodes?

    The reason I ask is that episodic content could make the burden of developing big games easier for smaller companies or independents, and it has the bonus of providing more regular feedback than the current industry standard, the sequel. A lot of gamers complain that they don't have time for 80 hour RPG epics, and it seems that this could be a solution.

    Delzhand on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Axen wrote:
    JWFokker wrote:
    I don't see episodic content working out. For it to be effective, each 'episode' has to be pretty much self encapsulated otherwise they're unsatisfying. And that's not what Valve and others are doing, with the exception of Sam and Max. Most developers doing episodic content are doing continuations of the main storyline and that just isn't effective or satisfying to gamers because there's no sense of completion or continuity or even a real sense of accomplishment when you play for 3-4 hours and then have to wait 12-18 months for the next part.

    This is exactly how I feel.

    Now if each Episode was its own little story, lets say like a TV series. Where there is an over arcing story, but for the most part each episode is its own adventure I think that would be cool.

    If modern video-games strive to be like films, episodic content would do well to take note from TV serieses, yes. A structure like that which recent genre sci-fi/fantasy has taken would work well - think something like the 4400, or Heroes; where each episode (the early ones at least) focuses on a couple of characters, but are part of an overarching whole.

    Irregardless at the moment; episodic content simply isn't working very well because no-one's putting anything out at a regular interval. You want to get consumers in the frame of mind where they're thinking, hurrah, the fith of the month - the latest Kapow episode will be out today.

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    20 hours is like a full game!!

    Rook on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Rook wrote:
    20 hours is like a full game!!

    For a JRPG? I played the first .hack for 20 hours and felt ripped off, because I paid $50 bucks for it. That's not episodic content. That's breaking up your game to make more money.

    Delzhand on
  • JWFokkerJWFokker Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I think HL2+Ep1+Ep2 might add up to 20 hours of gameplay.

    JWFokker on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Delzhand wrote:
    I'd actually like to do an unofficial survey about this, if anyone wants to respond.

    1. Would you buy an Episodic RPG that had a finite length, but was released in Acts?

    2. How much would you expect to pay for an episode of 20 hours estimated playtime?

    3. What do you dislike most about the idea of episodic content:
    Wait between episodes
    Changes to the mechanics
    Lack of satisfaction

    4. What is the longest and preferred amount of time between episodes?

    The reason I ask is that episodic content could make the burden of developing big games easier for smaller companies or independents, and it has the bonus of providing more regular feedback than the current industry standard, the sequel. A lot of gamers complain that they don't have time for 80 hour RPG epics, and it seems that this could be a solution.
    1) If the total price of those acts was equal to a $69 game, and they were released no more than six months apart, yes.
    2) Depends on how many episodes there are in total, because I refuse to pay more than $69 for a game.
    3) Wait between episodes.
    4) 6 months, absolute maximum.

    Azio on
  • skaceskace Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The only problem with episodic content is that it has to be released in a timely fashion. That is it. So far it hasn't been, in which case most of the current examples are poor ones. If you are going to build your content in a similar vein as a TV show, then like said TV show, you need to actually deliver something on a very strict deadline.

    skace on
    http://picasaweb.google.com/skacer | Shiren:5413-0147-4655
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    skace wrote:
    The only problem with episodic content is that it has to be released in a timely fashion. That is it. So far it hasn't been, in which case most of the current examples are poor ones. If you are going to build your content in a similar vein as a TV show, then like said TV show, you need to actually deliver something on a very strict deadline.

    Well, Sam & Max is right on target. In fact, I just finished Episode 3 (for review). So, they are doing right with the episodic nature.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Drez wrote:
    skace wrote:
    The only problem with episodic content is that it has to be released in a timely fashion. That is it. So far it hasn't been, in which case most of the current examples are poor ones. If you are going to build your content in a similar vein as a TV show, then like said TV show, you need to actually deliver something on a very strict deadline.

    Well, Sam & Max is right on target. In fact, I just finished Episode 3 (for review). So, they are doing right with the episodic nature.

    Any good?

    Also, it's kinda funny that Guild Wars has managed a 6 month schedule better than most episodic content makers.

    Rook on
  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Since when is a game's quality entirely dependent upon how long it takes to beat it? Max Payne 2 was 6-8 hours long, and I paid $50 for it. I would pay that much again if I had to. It's that good.

    Episodic content works for Valve because they have this thing about releasing games once a decade. Releasing episodes once a year IS episodic for them. And $20 for the 5-6 hours for Ep. 1 is fine, because it was a great 5-6 hours.

    I don't consider the Oblivion downloads to be episodic content. They're just add-ons. Add-ons there were free when they did them for Morrowind. Anyway. The only episodic content that I can think of is the Half-Life 2 episodes, the SiN Episode, and Sam & Max.

    I say bring on the episodic content.

    Renzo on
  • BigDesBigDes Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Renzo wrote:
    Since when is a game's quality entirely dependent upon how long it takes to beat it? Max Payne 2 was 6-8 hours long, and I paid $50 for it. I would pay that much again if I had to. It's that good.

    Episodic content works for Valve because they have this thing about releasing games once a decade. Releasing episodes once a year IS episodic for them. And $20 for the 5-6 hours for Ep. 1 is fine, because it was a great 5-6 hours.

    I don't consider the Oblivion downloads to be episodic content. They're just add-ons. Add-ons there were free when they did them for Morrowind. Anyway. The only episodic content that I can think of is the Half-Life 2 episodes, the SiN Episode, and Sam & Max.

    I say bring on the episodic content.
    They did only do three addons for Morrowind though. If micro payments persuade them to do more and they're of the quality of say Mehrunes Razor then it's for the best I feel.

    Also could you tell I lost my train of though there?

    BigDes on
    steam_sig.png
  • vinhjvinhj Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Delzhand wrote:
    I'd actually like to do an unofficial survey about this, if anyone wants to respond.

    1. Would you buy an Episodic RPG that had a finite length, but was released in Acts?

    2. How much would you expect to pay for an episode of 20 hours estimated playtime?

    3. What do you dislike most about the idea of episodic content:
    Wait between episodes
    Changes to the mechanics
    Lack of satisfaction

    4. What is the longest and preferred amount of time between episodes?

    1) If they are well done and (satisfactorily) self-contained, then I wouldn't mind buying new acts.

    2) $15-20. I wouldn't mind paying extra upfront for the first act to cover the overhead of initial engine development and stuff. $30/$15/$15... would come out to $60 for 60 hours, which sounds good to me (although using hours as a metric for quality isn't a very good idea).

    3) I'm afraid of the LACK of changes to the mechanics. Honestly, if the episodic thing really takes off, I'm afraid that developers will 'phone it in' and we'll be playing the same episode we did 2 years ago, but with palette-swapped characters, superficial story changes and the same gameplay that was cool in 2005.

    4) 6 months max. Once every 3 months is a good goal.

    vinhj on
  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    BigDes wrote:
    Renzo wrote:
    Since when is a game's quality entirely dependent upon how long it takes to beat it? Max Payne 2 was 6-8 hours long, and I paid $50 for it. I would pay that much again if I had to. It's that good.

    Episodic content works for Valve because they have this thing about releasing games once a decade. Releasing episodes once a year IS episodic for them. And $20 for the 5-6 hours for Ep. 1 is fine, because it was a great 5-6 hours.

    I don't consider the Oblivion downloads to be episodic content. They're just add-ons. Add-ons there were free when they did them for Morrowind. Anyway. The only episodic content that I can think of is the Half-Life 2 episodes, the SiN Episode, and Sam & Max.

    I say bring on the episodic content.
    They did only do two addons for Morrowind though. If micro payments persuade them to do more and they're of the quality of say Mehrunes Razor then it's for the best I feel.

    Also could you tell I lost my train of though there?
    The difference between the two expansion packs for Morrowind and Oblivion's micro "expansions" was that I felt I got more "bang for my bucks" from Morrowinds.

    Of course, I felt that the gameworld and story was so much better in Morrowind than in Oblivion so your mileage may vary there..

    Silpheed on
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Zilla84 wrote:
    .....KoToR's combat was very far from impressive. Maybe it was better on the X-Box, but on the PC it was more clunky than anything else. I loved the game, but not because of the combat. The best part about it was that it was pretty easy to get used to and once you were engrossed in the game you didn't really notice how clunky it was anymore.

    assuming you stayed with the game through Taris...god I hated that planet. After you get past Taris the game is full awesomesauce.

    I lent my copy of KOTOR to a buddy of mine who really isn't into gaming, but loves Baldurs Gate and everything. He couldn't stay interested in KOTOR because of the first two areas just stink. I kept pleading with him to just hang on and that it gets SO much better. ultimately he gave up on it though before he got to the good stuff

    Anyway, regarding episodic content. My current plan of attack is just to simply wait Valve out. Wait for them to make all the episodes they're going to make...then buy the inevitable bundle. I only recently got HL2 a few months ago, so I've got patience on my side. If you don't like episodic content...that's how I'd suggest you fight it.

    VoodooV on
  • CokomonCokomon Our butts are worth fighting for! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    VoodooV wrote:
    Anyway, regarding episodic content. My current plan of attack is just to simply wait Valve out. Wait for them to make all the episodes they're going to make...then buy the inevitable bundle. I only recently got HL2 a few months ago, so I've got patience on my side. If you don't like episodic content...that's how I'd suggest you fight it.

    Half Life 2: Orange?

    Cokomon on
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  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    VoodooV wrote:
    Zilla84 wrote:
    .....KoToR's combat was very far from impressive. Maybe it was better on the X-Box, but on the PC it was more clunky than anything else. I loved the game, but not because of the combat. The best part about it was that it was pretty easy to get used to and once you were engrossed in the game you didn't really notice how clunky it was anymore.

    assuming you stayed with the game through Taris...god I hated that planet. After you get past Taris the game is full awesomesauce.

    I lent my copy of KOTOR to a buddy of mine who really isn't into gaming, but loves Baldurs Gate and everything. He couldn't stay interested in KOTOR because of the first two areas just stink. I kept pleading with him to just hang on and that it gets SO much better. ultimately he gave up on it though before he got to the good stuff

    Anyway, regarding episodic content. My current plan of attack is just to simply wait Valve out. Wait for them to make all the episodes they're going to make...then buy the inevitable bundle. I only recently got HL2 a few months ago, so I've got patience on my side. If you don't like episodic content...that's how I'd suggest you fight it.
    I've played through the game twice and KoToR 2 once. The combat stays clunky after Taris but, like I said, you kinda get used to it and it's not so bad anymore. Still could've used a lot of work though, imo.

    Cilla Black on
  • PancakePancake Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    VoodooV wrote:
    Anyway, regarding episodic content. My current plan of attack is just to simply wait Valve out. Wait for them to make all the episodes they're going to make...then buy the inevitable bundle. I only recently got HL2 a few months ago, so I've got patience on my side. If you don't like episodic content...that's how I'd suggest you fight it.
    This is a nice idea for Valve, who is quite large at this point, but in the near future, there may be more smaller developers that would like to benefit from the advantages episodic content can offer. They can't afford to lose sales because people don't want to wait between episodes. If that happens on too large a scale, or even on a small scale, as we're not talking about large corporations, there might not be more episodes.

    I think this would be less of a problem if episodes could be released sooner than every year. I know it's possible and it's being done with Sam and Max, but Valve and Ritual seem to be having problems doing it. But Ritual has been having some problems, so...

    Pancake on
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