As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

[SW:TOR] SPACE COMBAT CONFIRMED

1151618202164

Posts

  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Bankers?

    Agent Cooper on
  • BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Sith Warrior specs, if I remember right, are tank spec and duel-wield spec DPS. I am assuming the tank spec just gets greater force powers used to absorb damage and the DPS gets a 2nd lightsaber for increased damage. The 2nd lightsaber may be a talent.

    Sith Inquisitor most likely has a force based spec that might be able to heal and a mix two-sided lightsaber/force DPS spec. So maybe a Force DPS/Force Heal spec and a Force DPS/Physical DPS spec.

    This all coming from the small talent preview and guesses, of course.

    Buraisu on
    47uk6agplx83.png
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I think they showed the Sith Juggernaut (Sith Warrior "Tank" spec) duel wielding as well, so it may just be a Sith Warrior trait. Would make sense, I mean...I doubt we will have shields WoW style.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'll be rolling bounty hunter when TOR comes out and focusing on PvP anti-jedi skills since I know every jimmy and timmy around is going to be rolling one.

    Khaczor on
  • BuraisuBuraisu Psychomancer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I hope Sith Inquisitors have some kind of pet spec. :D Like a Sith Warrior as a pet. haha

    Buraisu on
    47uk6agplx83.png
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Melkster wrote: »
    Bloodshed wrote: »
    Sith don't really think of themselves as "Evil", per say.
    They just happen to believe in "Might makes Right" and Survival of the Fittest.

    That's a good thing to remember when you choose to RP an Imperial toon.

    Sith blow up planets and murder countless billions of innocent human beings. They are murderers and tyrants in the official films and in Knights of the Old Republic.

    If that's what the empire is about, I want no part of it.

    But, like I said, I would be completely okay with administering justice where justice is due. An eye for an eye? I'd be happy to take a leg and an arm for an eye. But not billions of innocent lives. Or even one innocent life.

    What if, by taking the life of one innocent, you save the lives of thousands more?

    What about hundreds?

    Dozens?

    Two?

    I see the Old Republic Sith as a sort of Knight Templar. Should I end up playing as one, that's probably how I'll do it.

    To answer your question directly, I would say that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. In general, if allowing one person to die saves five, I'd do it.

    But speaking to your answer more generally, the Sith just want to conquer and lord over others, and they will murder anyone who doesn't fall in line with that.

    There was no valid justification for the destruction of Taris or Alderaan. The Sith we've seen in Knights of the Old Republic and the movies are even worse than the Nazis. They're genocidal racists who value only more power. They care nothing for justice, loyalty, the rule of law, or anything else.

    Now, if the Empire of The Old Republic actually cares about innocent life, if they actually care about justice and fairness, if they rule with a benevolent dictatorship, then sure. I'd be okay with that. I'm okay with their principles of embracing emotion, as well as the principles of strength and competition leading to a better world. But the Empire we've seen so far is worse than the worst nations we've ever seen in the real world.

    Melkster on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Buraisu wrote: »
    I hope Sith Inquisitors have some kind of pet spec. :D Like a Sith Warrior as a pet. haha

    Wish granted!

    You'll have access to companion characters while playing the game. You can only have one companion character with you in the world at any moment, though.

    Darth Hater has observed a person dressed in Sith Warrior clothing on the Sith player ship - so a Sith Warrior companion is almost certainly going to happen.

    Melkster on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    Buraisu wrote: »
    I hope Sith Inquisitors have some kind of pet spec. :D Like a Sith Warrior as a pet. haha

    Wish granted!

    You'll have access to companion characters while playing the game. You can only have one companion character with you in the world at any moment, though.

    Darth Hater has observed a person dressed in Sith Warrior clothing on the Sith player ship - so a Sith Warrior companion is almost certainly going to happen.

    You eventually could become like a Dark Lord and have the other Sith as an apprentice/apprentices. And train them to do your baby murdering and space taxes for you.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So are screenshots verboten by the closed beta? Can we get some folks linking some of their screens if they're in the beta? I know I can get them elsewhere, but I'd like some here with some text around them describing what's what.

    ToyD on
    steam_sig.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    ToyD wrote: »
    So are screenshots verboten by the closed beta? Can we get some folks linking some of their screens if they're in the beta? I know I can get them elsewhere, but I'd like some here with some text around them describing what's what.

    The Bioware/Lucasarts NDA agreement, says no. Some people will ignore that, but round here, we don't break the rules.

    Usually.

    I'm sure if we give it some time pics will be leaked elsewhere on the Internet for us to feast on here and debate on the implications.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    ToyD wrote: »
    So are screenshots verboten by the closed beta? Can we get some folks linking some of their screens if they're in the beta? I know I can get them elsewhere, but I'd like some here with some text around them describing what's what.

    No.

    Magic Radio on
  • legionofonelegionofone __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    Bloodshed wrote: »
    Sith don't really think of themselves as "Evil", per say.
    They just happen to believe in "Might makes Right" and Survival of the Fittest.

    That's a good thing to remember when you choose to RP an Imperial toon.

    Sith blow up planets and murder countless billions of innocent human beings. They are murderers and tyrants in the official films and in Knights of the Old Republic.

    If that's what the empire is about, I want no part of it.

    But, like I said, I would be completely okay with administering justice where justice is due. An eye for an eye? I'd be happy to take a leg and an arm for an eye. But not billions of innocent lives. Or even one innocent life.

    That's nothing but Republic propaganda.

    legionofone on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Hey it's up to us to end this sensationalist black vs white viewpoint of the world. Don't be George Lucas. You're better than that, republic or empire, you're better than that.

    initiatefailure on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Hey it's up to us to end this sensationalist black vs white viewpoint of the world. Don't be George Lucas. You're better than that, republic or empire, you're better than that.

    Exactly. We work in shades of grey yo.

    Stealth and shit.

    All things in moderation. Even good and evil.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I very much HOPE that in The Old Republic they change that.

    But in KOTOR? Nope. The opening act was very much the same as the opening act of Star Wars: The needless destruction of billions of human beings. Hell, KOTOR added in an extra layer of asshole by making racism within the Empire explicit. The movies didn't make hatred of non-human species clear. It was like Bioware was making the parallel between Nazi Germany and the Empire even more clear.

    But yeah, I would love for TOR to be different. I would like to see an Empire that's actually noble and not a bunch of racist, genocidal villains. From the interviews I've read, that seems totally possible.

    Melkster on
  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'd also like to see what life is like for citzen of the empire. Are you considered worthless by your government or are you something they protect and give rights to (however limited they are)? They've blown up planets but those weren't empire citizens. I haven't read any of the EU etc so i don't know what it's like to be a banker or a dentist and a citizen of the empire.

    EDIT: We really only see the military arm of the government.

    Catastrophe_XXVI on
    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
    3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
    Shiny Code: 3837
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I'd also like to see what life is like for citzen of the empire. Are you considered worthless by your government or are you something they protect and give rights to (however limited they are)? They've blown up planets but those weren't empire citizens. I haven't read any of the EU etc so i don't know what it's like to be a banker or a dentist and a citizen of the empire.

    EDIT: We really only see the military arm of the government.

    Imperial Agent page talks about Imperial citizens a bit and their aspirations and stuff.

    http://swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/imperial-agent

    But on the whole I agree that we should see more info on the average citizens of the Empire and the Republic.

    Corehealer on
    488W936.png
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I'd also like to see what life is like for citzen of the empire. Are you considered worthless by your government or are you something they protect and give rights to (however limited they are)? They've blown up planets but those weren't empire citizens. I haven't read any of the EU etc so i don't know what it's like to be a banker or a dentist and a citizen of the empire.

    EDIT: We really only see the military arm of the government.

    Imperial Agent page talks about Imperial citizens a bit and their aspirations and stuff.

    http://swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/imperial-agent

    But on the whole I agree that we should see more info on the average citizens of the Empire and the Republic.

    The heart of the Empire consists of millions of subjects, descendants of the original exiles who settled Dromund Kaas. For these loyal citizens, the Imperial Agent is the exemplar of the highest level of achievement one might aspire to. These are the people the Agent risks everything to protect. Though there are few idealists in Imperial Intelligence, the art of professional perfection is held in deep reverence, and the Agent embodies the Imperial ideal in this respect.

    Okay, that's interesting.

    Hey look! The empire protecting it's citizens! Crazy!

    Melkster on
  • BloodshedBloodshed I smoke my friends Down to the FilterRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    I very much HOPE that in The Old Republic they change that.

    But in KOTOR? Nope. The opening act was very much the same as the opening act of Star Wars: The needless destruction of billions of human beings. Hell, KOTOR added in an extra layer of asshole by making racism within the Empire explicit. The movies didn't make hatred of non-human species clear. It was like Bioware was making the parallel between Nazi Germany and the Empire even more clear.

    But yeah, I would love for TOR to be different. I would like to see an Empire that's actually noble and not a bunch of racist, genocidal villains. From the interviews I've read, that seems totally possible.

    If your morals are so set in stone, no one here is going to talk you into playing a Empire/Sith character.
    You're clearly not going to accept any justification or variation from what you perceive the Sith to be, which I imagine would extend to the people who work for and with the Sith.

    It sounds very much to me like you've already decided to go Jedi/Republic.
    You've decided the Sith are evil, tyrannical, bloodthirsty megalomaniacs and that you most definitely do not agree with that, even from a RP standpoint, even in a fictional world.

    I'm not so sure any shades of gray are going to change that for you, from what you've written here so far.

    Bloodshed on
  • ShrieveShrieve Game Designer CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    But in KOTOR? Nope. The opening act was very much the same as the opening act of Star Wars: The needless destruction of billions of human beings. Hell, KOTOR added in an extra layer of asshole by making racism within the Empire explicit. The movies didn't make hatred of non-human species clear. It was like Bioware was making the parallel between Nazi Germany and the Empire even more clear.

    But in KOTOR, this is Darth Malak running a quasi Sith Empire. From what we learn from Kreia in the KOTOR2, he's seen as destructive just for the sake of it. For all we know this Empire runs itself completely different. I mean hell just from the setup of TOR they're completely different; they invade and capture Coruscant and make a truce right after. The other Empires we have seen have been completely different.

    If anything I just think the Sith philosophy of strength and emotion lends itself to pushing the super aggressive, often evil people to the forefront. For all we know in the core or whatever we call the regular civilians from that Agent post things could be quite different.
    Melkster wrote: »
    But yeah, I would love for TOR to be different. I would like to see an Empire that's actually noble and not a bunch of racist, genocidal villains. From the interviews I've read, that seems totally possible.

    I'm hoping so too. More Grey Jedi and Sith for all. I wouldn't hope for much if it was Lucasarts running the show, but Bioware is a different story. I prefer the more EU style of the force to THIS IS BLACK THIS IS WHITE, and oh midichlorians George Lucas style.

    Shrieve on
    FkbtS.png
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The Sith are evil. Get over it.

    Accepting emotion and competition is one thing. Using those to justify committing atrocities because the victims weren't strong enough to prevent it, is evil.

    It's the difference between Jolee Bindo and Malak.

    Agent Cooper on
  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So my heart about stopped when I saw this Multiplayer Demo...Video. Bioware felt the need to leave out "video" in the announcement.

    Magic Radio on
  • übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I can't quite put into words my confusion on why people want the Empire to be "nice" in some way. People like Malak and Palpaptine are evil, as well as the TOR Emperor. The the citizenry are also complete jerks, but to a lesser extent. The Sith Lords and Emperor have a greater scope for doing evil because they're the top of the food chain. On the other hand, the Sith Inquisitor character is drawn from a slave cast of some sort. The slaves themselves aren't evil, but their forced into doing bad things, and for Sith training, reasonably well adjusted people to complete psychos are given courses in cruelty 101.

    Someone made a comparison to Nazi Germany, which is kinda close. Citizens might not be outright evil, but they condoned some horrible things. Or maybe a more modern comparison would be Saddam's Iraq - the citizens themselves were good and oppressed people, like the Sith lower and slave castes, and the military are the Sith and Imperial military with Saddam as the Emperor.

    This isn't a case of the Sith being misunderstood. This isn't some WoW bullshit where the Horde are nice and fluffy and all that stuff before was totally a horrible mistake. These are bad people doing bad things. At best you get a Sith that's dark gray and a Jedi that is light gray.

    An Imperial Officer might not want to kill you if you're unarmed out of a sense of "honor", but if he's got a gun, and someone hands Republic soldier a knife and he's not ever going to close the distance in time to use it, that Imperial is still a douche in the way he kept his "honor" intact. Every now and then you might get an Imperial who won't harm the children he finds cowering in a basement, and tells his superiors the basement is clear. He is the exception, not the rule.

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
  • ShrieveShrieve Game Designer CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    übergeek wrote: »
    I can't quite put into words my confusion on why people want the Empire to be "nice" in some way. People like Malak and Palpaptine are evil, as well as the TOR Emperor. The the citizenry are also complete jerks, but to a lesser extent. The Sith Lords and Emperor have a greater scope for doing evil because they're the top of the food chain. On the other hand, the Sith Inquisitor character is drawn from a slave cast of some sort. The slaves themselves aren't evil, but their forced into doing bad things, and for Sith training, reasonably well adjusted people to complete psychos are given courses in cruelty 101.[/U]

    Oh I don't want the Empire to be nice in anyway. It just makes sense for their society and people to be the way they are with their philosophy. I just prefer it when my bad guys have some depth to their actions instead of kicking puppies and blowing up orphanages just because they can. But then again this is the Star Wars universe and looking for depth is kind of asking a lot.

    But yeah overall I don't think the Empire is misunderstood, it makes its intentions quite clear.

    Shrieve on
    FkbtS.png
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Arglebargle. Got an email from Bioware. Had The Old Republic in the message.

    It was wanting me to check out the videos from E3 that I saw two weeks ago.

    Fucking A.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's not exactly that I want a sith as good guys thing so much as I don't this "empire" to be the exact same as that empire and the next empire and the next empire. It's really lazy and a fallback story point all the time in star wars history. That along with the bad guys have one oversized super weapon thing. The most interesting "empire" i think is the deposed one from the Legacy timeline where the Emperor has been betrayed by the sith and he's trying to to get control back with his gray jedi. It's something different, beyond the standard plot device we have every time an empire/republic cycle rotates back around. And you need interesting, you need intrigue, especially in an MMO setting where you expect people to stay interested for as long as you can. If it's the same as every other empire/republic empire/rebelion setting then people are gonna love it at first as it plays into their nostalgia for whichever movies or series first introduced them to the series but in an mmo setting that will get tiring

    initiatefailure on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I don't think people are so much advocating for the Empire to be nice as much as they'd like to see them not be cartoonishly evil, as that's just not interesting at all. Shades of gray make things interesting.

    reVerse on
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    There was plenty of depth in Star Wars (well, ESB) before Jedi were turned from zen-samurai space warrior-philosophers into masturbatory adolescent power fantasies. The Force used to be about the inter-connectivity of life before it got turned into just a mana-battery for "lol I can take a grenade to the face and not even suffer a scratch."

    Agent Cooper on
  • Fig-DFig-D Tustin, CA, USRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Guys.

    I'm in.

    Fig-D on
    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    brb going to Fig's house.

    Henroid on
  • übergeekübergeek Sector 2814Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    ~Feigned confusion~

    In....what?

    =)

    übergeek on
    camo_sig.png
  • ShrieveShrieve Game Designer CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's not exactly that I want a sith as good guys thing so much as I don't this "empire" to be the exact same as that empire and the next empire and the next empire. It's really lazy and a fallback story point all the time in star wars history. That along with the bad guys have one oversized super weapon thing. The most interesting "empire" i think is the deposed one from the Legacy timeline where the Emperor has been betrayed by the sith and he's trying to to get control back with his gray jedi. It's something different, beyond the standard plot device we have every time an empire/republic cycle rotates back around. And you need interesting, you need intrigue, especially in an MMO setting where you expect people to stay interested for as long as you can. If it's the same as every other empire/republic empire/rebelion setting then people are gonna love it at first as it plays into their nostalgia for whichever movies or series first introduced them to the series but in an mmo setting that will get tiring
    reVerse wrote: »
    I don't think people are so much advocating for the Empire to be nice as much as they'd like to see them not be cartoonishly evil, as that's just not interesting at all. Shades of gray make things interesting.

    Basically this was all I was saying. I don't think that's too much to ask. Sorry if they blew up Alderaan or whatever; just having them as super space Nazis is a little tired.

    And Fig... You lucky bastard...

    Do... Do you want to trade for a Catacylsm account? :P

    Shrieve on
    FkbtS.png
  • Fig-DFig-D Tustin, CA, USRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I was just checking my email so I could delete the one that korodullin was talking about :lol: .

    I'm going to break the game in half during my time so I can hopefully get invited back for later phases.

    Fig-D on
    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    There was plenty of depth in Star Wars (well, ESB) before Jedi were turned from zen-samurai space warrior-philosophers into masturbatory adolescent power fantasies. The Force used to be about the inter-connectivity of life before it got turned into just a mana-battery for "lol I can take a grenade to the face and not even suffer a scratch."

    Where exactly was the depth to the evil of the Empire in Empire Strikes Back? Was it that they cut a vague deal with Lando regarding the gas mining?

    Henroid on
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I really wish the trooper had killed the Sith in that trailer. Instead BioWare is perpetuating the idea that Force-users are invincible and it's only going to cause problems when the game comes out. Either Jedi will be super-powered and everybody else will complain, or they won't be and the Jedi players will complain about that.

    Agent Cooper on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    The Jedi players won't be overpowered, and they will bitch about it.

    The thing is, KotOR 2 made strong cases for killing Jedi. You've got to remember that even when the Jedi were in their prime, people didn't see them in action often. It was rumors and hearsay about the Jedi being all powerful shining Gods and all that shit. The galaxy is a big place (despite how small Lucas makes it seem whenever he's directly involved with projects). And while they are capable of a lot, they're still only human. Or Twi'lekian, or whatever. <_<

    Henroid on
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    There was plenty of depth in Star Wars (well, ESB) before Jedi were turned from zen-samurai space warrior-philosophers into masturbatory adolescent power fantasies. The Force used to be about the inter-connectivity of life before it got turned into just a mana-battery for "lol I can take a grenade to the face and not even suffer a scratch."

    Where exactly was the depth to the evil of the Empire in Empire Strikes Back? Was it that they cut a vague deal with Lando regarding the gas mining?

    Man the Empire has always been based on Nazi Germany. The depth is in the characters and thematic material, not the political entities.

    Agent Cooper on
  • Magic RadioMagic Radio Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    korodullin wrote: »
    Arglebargle. Got an email from Bioware. Had The Old Republic in the message.

    It was wanting me to check out the videos from E3 that I saw two weeks ago.

    Fucking A.

    I just did the same. :?

    Magic Radio on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Henroid wrote: »
    There was plenty of depth in Star Wars (well, ESB) before Jedi were turned from zen-samurai space warrior-philosophers into masturbatory adolescent power fantasies. The Force used to be about the inter-connectivity of life before it got turned into just a mana-battery for "lol I can take a grenade to the face and not even suffer a scratch."

    Where exactly was the depth to the evil of the Empire in Empire Strikes Back? Was it that they cut a vague deal with Lando regarding the gas mining?

    Man the Empire has always been based on Nazi Germany. The depth is in the characters and thematic material, not the political entities.

    In description. The most evil thing the Empire does is destroy an entire planet. ESB is mostly about how the Empire operates as a military, which had very little evil to it. I mean, they're the bad guys yeah. And Vader cut a deal with Lando to turn over wanted persons of interest, in exchange for allowing Bespin to operate freely (probably of whatever regulations the Empire could impose, or allowing the Empire access to resources for super-cheap or even free; but all this is speculated).

    Seriously, Lucas does a bad job of showing what makes people evil. I mean, and that's kinda not the point since he was going for classic caricatures or whatever. Like Vader wears all black and has a masked face, you know he's a bad dude. And that's fine.

    But all these games and books that try to explore things more in-depth, there's potential to actually add depth.

    Have there been any EU attempts at showing what kind of peace-keeping or policing the Empire does, that isn't necessarily about subjugating alien species? A lot of the time, people's take on the Galactic Empire makes it sound like the Empire took to power and then just let chaos reign in the galaxy - which is totally retarded.

    Henroid on
  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    "The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

    Do you really need more than that?

    Agent Cooper on
This discussion has been closed.