I was just checking my email so I could delete the one that korodullin was talking about .
I'm going to break the game in half during my time so I can hopefully get invited back for later phases.
I received a similiar email in accompany of the Bioware multiplayer demo email. A nice surprise after X-Box has been in limbo all week returning from Microsoft repair.
Have there been any EU attempts at showing what kind of peace-keeping or policing the Empire does, that isn't necessarily about subjugating alien species? A lot of the time, people's take on the Galactic Empire makes it sound like the Empire took to power and then just let chaos reign in the galaxy - which is totally retarded.
Thrawn. 10x better and more interesting then the majority of bad guys in Star Wars.
Thrawn did not support the Empire per se, but rather wanted to establish order in the known galaxy in preparation to combat as-yet-unknown threats he had discovered during his time in the Unknown Regions of the galaxy.
It also helped that he kicked a shit ton of New Republic ass when it needed it.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
"The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."
Do you really need more than that?
Which is hand-in-hand with Aldaraan's destruction since they were displaying why people should fear them.
Now then. Other acts of evil by the Empire?
The Jedi purge is indeed an act of evil, by the way, to get it out of the way. But we don't see any of the marshal-law police-state bullshit that you would expect.
Uh. The Empire taking over Lando's mining operation?
Murdering the Lars and burning down their homestead?
Torturing Han just for giggles?
Shooting down escape pods from the corvette in the very beginning?
Freezing Han in carbonite just to test the facility?
edit: And there's a reason they're called "Stormtroopers" and the Empire wears mostly grey. Oh yeah, and their weaponry is all derived from German models.
Oh and that reminds me: murdering underlings who displease the leadership.
edit^2: Oh and butchering Jawas. And military checkpoints in Mos Eisley.
I was just checking my email so I could delete the one that korodullin was talking about .
I'm going to break the game in half during my time so I can hopefully get invited back for later phases.
I received a similiar email in accompany of the Bioware multiplayer demo email. A nice surprise after X-Box has been in limbo all week returning from Microsoft repair.
Oh and that reminds me: murdering underlings who displease the leadership.
Woot like I said about Thrawn!
Appalled by the "Vader style" of command that so many of his contemporaries supported, Thrawn preferred to promote creativity in his crew, rather than merely punish their failures, and did not often kill off personnel for minor failures, as that could easily strain the resources of the Empire, which was unaffordable at the time.
Edit: Ok let's put the whole 'is the empire evil' thing behind and agree that Fig are Viss are evil jerks.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Murdering the Lars and burning down their homestead?
The cold-blooded murder is implied. They could've resisted the Empire or given them a lot of shit that would've otherwise kept them from being killed. But the burning of the home, yeah, I'll give you that.
Shooting down escape pods from the corvette in the very beginning?
That's certainly an act of evil but it's a fucking poorly written one. HOLD YOUR FIRE NOTHING ABOARD. That's cartoon villainy. Which is what we don't want.
Freezing Han in carbonite just to test the facility?
They wanted him captured and imprisoned, as did the bounty hunter, and while it's cruel it's evilness isn't as great as torturing him without interrogating him.
edit: And there's a reason they're called "Stormtroopers" and the Empire wears mostly grey. Oh yeah, and their weaponry is all derived from German models.
What they wear and the equipment they hold was Lucas' way of fulfilling that "This is how you know they're bad" aspect. Which I already addressed. It makes the bad guys easy to identify. That's not a bad thing. But it doesn't speak to their actual evil. The United States has uniforms for the military - does the use of uniform make people evil? No. It helps identify. This was a silly thing for you to bring up.
I was just checking my email so I could delete the one that korodullin was talking about .
I'm going to break the game in half during my time so I can hopefully get invited back for later phases.
You're in just for the weekend right? Did they switch to two new classes? A simple yes or no is certainly not breaking the NDA. :P
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Establishing military check points to search for members of what is otherwise a terrorist organization isn't baseless marshal-law bullshit (bullshit was the key word in this, I meant to imply the Empire flexing its muscle for no reason).
It does help toward seeing the Empire's military policing though. I had forgotten about it.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Going back to the Jedi balance thing, I intend to play my trooper with the attitude that the Jedi aren't all that special. "They're only sentient" is more or less the catchphrase.
BioWare really needs to release a video where a Force-user is defeated by a non-Force user. I don't care if it's an Imperial Agent killing a Jedi or a Smuggler kicking a Sith Inquisitor in the balls and then shooting him in the face. It just needs to happen.
The trooper flinging Sith over his shoulder like they're nothing in the recent trailer doesn't count?
No, because he has to be saved from the big bad Sith by a Jedi. And then when he blows up a thermal detonator in the Sith's face the Sith is all "lolwut?"
Yeah, that was pretty much the best thing Bioware could do. Watching a dude beat the crap out of a bunch of Sith until getting to the kind of boss Sith might shift some perceptions.
I see the Sith Empire as similar to the Roman Empire. It's more dependent on the emperor than anything. You can get it range from neutral to evil on the D&D spectrum. I'm hoping the Republic is more along the good to neutral spectrum allowing for some solid overlap.
The trooper flinging Sith over his shoulder like they're nothing in the recent trailer doesn't count?
No, because he has to be saved from the big bad Sith by a Jedi. And then when he blows up a thermal detonator in the Sith's face the Sith is all "lolwut?"
Well, yeah, because it is the "big bad Sith." Other Sith, your normal everyday Sith, were nothing to the trooper. Darth Malgus is this game's Vader, so of course the trooper is going to have some difficulty. Even the Jedi doesn't truly defeat him (as we see him later in the timeline).
I don't know who Malgus is, and I'm willing to bet most of the people who have seen the trailer don't either.
Either way, it still comes down to needing a Jedi to save him from the big mean force-user.
I just don't truck with the idea that "well, everybody but the force-users are the best at what they do; the force-users, they're just mediocre." It still elevates Jedi and Sith to a plane mere mortals can't possibly hope to attain.
Jedi and Sith should be like samurai in Meiji Japan; feared and respected, but not unassailable. A smart smuggler what plays his cards right should be able to take on a Jedi master.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't know who Malgus is, and I'm willing to bet most of the people who have seen the trailer don't either.
That's odd, most people who watched the trailer presumably have eyes and saw him, even if they don't know his name.
Either way, it still comes down to needing a Jedi to save him from the big mean force-user.
And then he saved the pathetic Jedi with some good, old fashioned grenade chargin'.
I just don't truck with the idea that "well, everybody but the force-users are the best at what they do; the force-users, they're just mediocre." It still elevates Jedi and Sith to a plane mere mortals can't possibly hope to attain.
And that's why it'll be all the sweeter when you mow down couple of dozen Sith with your big effin' gun.
Jedi and Sith should be like samurai in Meiji Japan; feared and respected, but not unassailable. A smart smuggler what plays his cards right should be able to take on a Jedi master.
And hey, he can.
Also, re: the Empire being evil because they torture people, the United States does that as well. I guess they are just as evil as the Empire, eh?
reVerse on
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Well I stumbled onto the SW:TOR Roleplaying Wiki.
I won't bother trying to describe the horrors I've seen.
So...many...half-naked...Twi'leks...oh god, this one is a Mandalorian..
Burden of Proof on
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
I just don't truck with the idea that "well, everybody but the force-users are the best at what they do; the force-users, they're just mediocre." It still elevates Jedi and Sith to a plane mere mortals can't possibly hope to attain.
Because the quote is only meant to explain why the playable non-Force users are competitive with the playable Force-users. It wasn't meant to prove that your Smuggler could one day take Yoda in fight if he really wanted to. It's hard enough buying the fact that someone with telekinsis has to worry about guns in the first place. Don't worry about it so much!
I seem to recall Vader doing just fine against a pretty good quickdraw in the original trilogy and being portrayed as practically invincible to everything but another Jedi. Han was never portrayed as a great fighter but he took on stormtroopers and such just fine, the fact that Vader didn't give him a moments notice says something. Granted, the very few Jedi we saw were more archaic philosopher types in the original trilogy, but I think you are overestimating this "big transition."
I don't have a problem with the most powerful of Jedi being unafraid of "the best" smugglers and troopers. They have a magical power that provides for telekinesis, the absorption of energy blasts, mind reading, etc.
Also, in the video (as others have pointed out) the Jedi was toast if the trooper hadn't intervened. He also had absolutely no trouble with anything else, up to and including an entire battalion of troops, battle droids, and shit loads of other combat tested/trained/whathaveyou warrior sith.
I seem to recall Vader doing just fine against a pretty good quickdraw in the original trilogy and being portrayed as practically invincible to everything but another Jedi.
The funny part about using Vader is that you never see him engage directly in combat with anyone other then Obi-Wan and Luke. You never see Vader cutting down rebel soldiers with his lightsaber, force pushing them, or any other nonsense. In fact from the original trilogy you get the feel that, much like Meiji samurai, Vader only exists because of tradition. Hell, not even Luke fights Stormtroopers with his lightsaber but instead chooses to use a blaster.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
I seem to recall Vader doing just fine against a pretty good quickdraw in the original trilogy and being portrayed as practically invincible to everything but another Jedi.
The funny part about using Vader is that you never see him engage directly in combat with anyone other then Obi-Wan and Luke. You never see Vader cutting down rebel soldiers with his lightsaber, force pushing them, or any other nonsense. In fact from the original trilogy you get the feel that, much like Meiji samurai, Vader only exists because of tradition. Hell, not even Luke fights Stormtroopers with his lightsaber but instead chooses to use a blaster.
Mainly because Luke didn't have it drilled into his head from the beginning that blasters were the weapons of silly geese.
NEO|Phyte on
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Vader isn't proper context to measure Jedi power, considering he had outstanding connection to the Force. Him being all-powerful doesn't equate to all Jedi being the same way.
I seem to recall Vader doing just fine against a pretty good quickdraw in the original trilogy and being portrayed as practically invincible to everything but another Jedi.
The funny part about using Vader is that you never see him engage directly in combat with anyone other then Obi-Wan and Luke. You never see Vader cutting down rebel soldiers with his lightsaber, force pushing them, or any other nonsense. In fact from the original trilogy you get the feel that, much like Meiji samurai, Vader only exists because of tradition. Hell, not even Luke fights Stormtroopers with his lightsaber but instead chooses to use a blaster.
Actually, I got the feeling that some people thought they were around for tradition's sake and then they got force choked into knowing better.
Comparing them to samurai is great and all until you remember that they aren't Jedi because they are super adept people, they are Jedi because they have magic. And you can have inept people with magic and then you have very adept people that also happen to have magic and then they are better than other very adept people. So, yes, in a battle with gigantic lasers and ATATs they might get vaporized by an energy blast that they didn't see coming, but up against a single adversary what the hell do you want? The dumber magic users will get killed by people that can overcome the magic through skill or what have you but the super adept (Vader, this new sith dude who I am also unfamiliar with) will trump them 99% of the time.
Also, no one is saying anywhere that all Jedi should be like Vader. I thought that was blatantly obvious. You just can't have a dude who is really good with a blaster kill a Vader.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Oh, you were talking about Vader's skills period, as opposed to a measuring bar for Jedi all around. I misunderstood. :x Mostly 'cause we had just had a brief thing about Jedi balance in the game.
Well that just gets back to the transition of Jedi from archaic warrior-philosophers to masturbatory adolescent power fantasy.
I've never heard it said better; thus, I humbly request permission to quote this in the future should the need arise.
I can't help but wonder what the Force users of the original trilogy would have been like had Lucas and Co had the movie magic of today.
What if the more subdued Jedi of those movies were created less by design choice and more by technological limitation?
They were by choice.
1. Lawrence Kasdan
2. They drew heavily from Kurosawa movies and eastern philosophy in general.
3. Lucas didn't go crazy until after Raiders of the Lost Ark.
I always figured Yoda spoke in that weird backwards way because he had been a hermit on Dagobah for so long and was slightly mad. But no, he spoke like that all the time thanks prequel trilogy.
No, the problem is that to Lucas, Yoda's defining characteristic is that he talks funny instead of, you know, him being a wizened, kind-of kooky old sage.
The trooper flinging Sith over his shoulder like they're nothing in the recent trailer doesn't count?
No, because he has to be saved from the big bad Sith by a Jedi. And then when he blows up a thermal detonator in the Sith's face the Sith is all "lolwut?"
Well to be fair the trooper was pretty much "lolwut" as well. I mean they both had scorch marks on their face but that must have been a pretty weak thermal detonator or something
Posts
I received a similiar email in accompany of the Bioware multiplayer demo email. A nice surprise after X-Box has been in limbo all week returning from Microsoft repair.
Thrawn. 10x better and more interesting then the majority of bad guys in Star Wars.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mitth'raw'nuruodo
It also helped that he kicked a shit ton of New Republic ass when it needed it.
Which is hand-in-hand with Aldaraan's destruction since they were displaying why people should fear them.
Now then. Other acts of evil by the Empire?
The Jedi purge is indeed an act of evil, by the way, to get it out of the way. But we don't see any of the marshal-law police-state bullshit that you would expect.
Murdering the Lars and burning down their homestead?
Torturing Han just for giggles?
Shooting down escape pods from the corvette in the very beginning?
Freezing Han in carbonite just to test the facility?
edit: And there's a reason they're called "Stormtroopers" and the Empire wears mostly grey. Oh yeah, and their weaponry is all derived from German models.
Oh and that reminds me: murdering underlings who displease the leadership.
edit^2: Oh and butchering Jawas. And military checkpoints in Mos Eisley.
Oh my god I hate you both so much
Well they did need to make sure it was safe. I mean safety is very important and not very evil.
Woot like I said about Thrawn!
Edit: Ok let's put the whole 'is the empire evil' thing behind and agree that Fig are Viss are evil jerks.
The cold-blooded murder is implied. They could've resisted the Empire or given them a lot of shit that would've otherwise kept them from being killed. But the burning of the home, yeah, I'll give you that.
That's another I'll give to.
That's certainly an act of evil but it's a fucking poorly written one. HOLD YOUR FIRE NOTHING ABOARD. That's cartoon villainy. Which is what we don't want.
They wanted him captured and imprisoned, as did the bounty hunter, and while it's cruel it's evilness isn't as great as torturing him without interrogating him.
What they wear and the equipment they hold was Lucas' way of fulfilling that "This is how you know they're bad" aspect. Which I already addressed. It makes the bad guys easy to identify. That's not a bad thing. But it doesn't speak to their actual evil. The United States has uniforms for the military - does the use of uniform make people evil? No. It helps identify. This was a silly thing for you to bring up.
That's not Imperial policy, it's Sith policy. And it's also bland evil, which is what we're asking to have avoided.
That's not evil. What the hell is the matter with you.
That's what I was addressing.
You're in just for the weekend right? Did they switch to two new classes? A simple yes or no is certainly not breaking the NDA. :P
It does help toward seeing the Empire's military policing though. I had forgotten about it.
No, because he has to be saved from the big bad Sith by a Jedi. And then when he blows up a thermal detonator in the Sith's face the Sith is all "lolwut?"
I see the Sith Empire as similar to the Roman Empire. It's more dependent on the emperor than anything. You can get it range from neutral to evil on the D&D spectrum. I'm hoping the Republic is more along the good to neutral spectrum allowing for some solid overlap.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
Well, yeah, because it is the "big bad Sith." Other Sith, your normal everyday Sith, were nothing to the trooper. Darth Malgus is this game's Vader, so of course the trooper is going to have some difficulty. Even the Jedi doesn't truly defeat him (as we see him later in the timeline).
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
Either way, it still comes down to needing a Jedi to save him from the big mean force-user.
I just don't truck with the idea that "well, everybody but the force-users are the best at what they do; the force-users, they're just mediocre." It still elevates Jedi and Sith to a plane mere mortals can't possibly hope to attain.
Jedi and Sith should be like samurai in Meiji Japan; feared and respected, but not unassailable. A smart smuggler what plays his cards right should be able to take on a Jedi master.
That's odd, most people who watched the trailer presumably have eyes and saw him, even if they don't know his name.
And then he saved the pathetic Jedi with some good, old fashioned grenade chargin'.
And that's why it'll be all the sweeter when you mow down couple of dozen Sith with your big effin' gun.
And hey, he can.
Also, re: the Empire being evil because they torture people, the United States does that as well. I guess they are just as evil as the Empire, eh?
I won't bother trying to describe the horrors I've seen.
Because the quote is only meant to explain why the playable non-Force users are competitive with the playable Force-users. It wasn't meant to prove that your Smuggler could one day take Yoda in fight if he really wanted to. It's hard enough buying the fact that someone with telekinsis has to worry about guns in the first place. Don't worry about it so much!
I've never heard it said better; thus, I humbly request permission to quote this in the future should the need arise.
I don't have a problem with the most powerful of Jedi being unafraid of "the best" smugglers and troopers. They have a magical power that provides for telekinesis, the absorption of energy blasts, mind reading, etc.
Also, in the video (as others have pointed out) the Jedi was toast if the trooper hadn't intervened. He also had absolutely no trouble with anything else, up to and including an entire battalion of troops, battle droids, and shit loads of other combat tested/trained/whathaveyou warrior sith.
The funny part about using Vader is that you never see him engage directly in combat with anyone other then Obi-Wan and Luke. You never see Vader cutting down rebel soldiers with his lightsaber, force pushing them, or any other nonsense. In fact from the original trilogy you get the feel that, much like Meiji samurai, Vader only exists because of tradition. Hell, not even Luke fights Stormtroopers with his lightsaber but instead chooses to use a blaster.
Mainly because Luke didn't have it drilled into his head from the beginning that blasters were the weapons of silly geese.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Actually, I got the feeling that some people thought they were around for tradition's sake and then they got force choked into knowing better.
Comparing them to samurai is great and all until you remember that they aren't Jedi because they are super adept people, they are Jedi because they have magic. And you can have inept people with magic and then you have very adept people that also happen to have magic and then they are better than other very adept people. So, yes, in a battle with gigantic lasers and ATATs they might get vaporized by an energy blast that they didn't see coming, but up against a single adversary what the hell do you want? The dumber magic users will get killed by people that can overcome the magic through skill or what have you but the super adept (Vader, this new sith dude who I am also unfamiliar with) will trump them 99% of the time.
Also, no one is saying anywhere that all Jedi should be like Vader. I thought that was blatantly obvious. You just can't have a dude who is really good with a blaster kill a Vader.
I can't help but wonder what the Force users of the original trilogy would have been like had Lucas and Co had the movie magic of today.
What if the more subdued Jedi of those movies were created less by design choice and more by technological limitation?
They were by choice.
1. Lawrence Kasdan
2. They drew heavily from Kurosawa movies and eastern philosophy in general.
3. Lucas didn't go crazy until after Raiders of the Lost Ark.
thanpt.
He does it all the time in the prequels and it's fucking obnoxious.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I guess the problem is that people would be put-off by Yoda speaking normally.
Well to be fair the trooper was pretty much "lolwut" as well. I mean they both had scorch marks on their face but that must have been a pretty weak thermal detonator or something