Games like Everquest and FFXI where everybody could party together and what not worked fine, but those games also never had any sort of emphasis on PvP. For a game that's going to have any amount of PvP, it just makes sense to have factions so you have a reason to be fighting each other.
It doesn't feel as special if everybody is friends with one another and then you PvP and choose red team or blue team like you're playing dodgeball in gym class.
Besides, this is Star Wars. It would make absolutely no sense within the setting to have Jedi and Sith partying with one another. It's kind of what the whole setting rides on, the conflict between two sides.
If you want to make it easier for people to get groups, you take strides like WoWs dungeon finder tool, or in the case of SW:TOR you do things like make henchman who can fill in roles so people don't have to stand around looking for a tank or healer. There are solutions.
I've always been a fan of 3 sides to a conflict. Makes things for interesting in terms of checks and balances. Like DAoC.
If a game is going to be heavy on PvP, this is the best answer IMO. Part of what was so awesome in DAoC was that population imbalances resulted in less frustration and more enemy of my enemy deals. I know on servers I played on there was always a majority playing Albion, so the other two sides would work together against them.
Joshmvii on
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
Why the hell do they keep setting MMOs during cold wars and treaty negotiations?
It's a lame way of trying to create a faux competitive/epic atmosphere to the game without making it competitive/epic to play.
World of Warcraft is a good example of this bullshit. Had they designed it around what Warcraft RTS's are usually about (open warfare), they'd have had to make lots of NPC's duking it out while you went around. Obviously, this takes more work, so most companies don't go this route.
Also, the PVP scenarios would be less "a bunch of players fighting over meaningless objectives", and more "armies duking it out while each player plays the equivalent of a hero", which was a bit how Alterac used to be before they nerfed it. It also would have been much more badass if they pulled it off right.
Thankfully, it looks like the new Warhammer 40K MMO is going the "total war" route, rather then the "it used to be a total war, but now we're negotiating!" route.
Edit: This is also part of the reason why WAR failed, if you ask me. I never felt like I was a hero of an army when I PVPed. It felt like I was just some random character running around with a bunch of other random characters, since there was no real signs that a war was even taking place in the RVR lakes. Having some NPC interaction in the RVR lakes aside from "kill the nine incredibly weak NPC's guarding this keep" would have helped that game so much.
Ironically, this is what the developers claim they originally planned to do with WAR.
Archonex on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
WoW was originally suppose to have NPCs raiding towns and all that shit. But I guess they realized how much of a pain in the ass it would've been.
To be frank, Blizzard is the only company who can make that sort of thing happen in an MMO now, since they finally have the budget to operate that sort of thing. If TOR becomes a success, they could pull it off as well. But don't expect that sort of thing at launch.
Tabula Rasa did the 'npcs attack each other and capture stuff' if I recall. Tabula Rasa was also godawful.
Now, I'm not saying those two things are directly related, but there it is.
Well, that's why I said if it's done right.
Properly implemented, it'd be an awesome feature. Most MMO developers, though, seem to take the half-assed approach to NPC warfare, Blizzard included.
Plus, TR was the victim of pretty heavily meddling by NCSoft, who outright tried to sabotage the game multiple times after it's release, if I recall correctly.
I played a bit of TR, it didn't need sabotaging. It was quite capable of failing on its own.
On topic, I don't know about NPCs raiding towns and shit, but I do think that NPCs need to be doing *something* in order to make the world appear more real. For example, a lot of enemies in WoW (especially Vanilla) just sort stand around and wait for you to kill them. Many enemy NPCs in WAR, on the other hand, are sitting and talking to others, reading books, or sharpening their weapons or carrying barrels/boxes or whatever. It wasn't much, but it made the characters seem a little bit more alive. Before I killed them.
Well, if you watched some of the leaked videos, there are battles as part of the backround. One of the vids, smuggler I think, had a bunch of fighters trading blaster fire in the sky. Sometimes they would dip down low and occasionally the random blaster fire hit the ground and exploded. It made environment seem real as well as make it seem like there was an actual battle going on.
More of that would be awesome.
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
As quickly (yet specifically) as possible can someone describe this "sabotaging" of TR, since I've never heard of it? O_o
Richard Garriott is currently suing NCsoft for $24,000,000 USD. Garriott is suing for damages relative to his termination from the parent company NC Soft. Garriott's allegation states that NC Soft terminated his employment, then fraudulently reported his termination as willful resignation in order to preserve the right to terminate Garriot's stock options unless he exercised them himself within 90 days of termination, forcing Garriott into a decision to purchase stock with which a loss was incurred worth dozens of millions in profit for Mr. Garriott. Additionally, the news of the termination was issued while Mr. Garriott was confined to quarantine from the space flight, which was originally intended to be a publicity move to further promote the game and increase revenue. In July 2010, an Austin District Court awarded Garriott USD$28 million in his lawsuit against NCsoft, finding that the company did not appropriately handle his departure in 2008.
As for pvp battlegrounds didn't they say there was going to be one on Alderaan right after the Hope trailer showed up? I seem to remember hearing that somewhere, but I don't think they have confirmed or denied battlegrounds on any of the other planets. Most likely there will be at least one on each of the non starting planets, if I were to take a guess.
I always got the impression that Alderaan will be the PvP planet, so that all the battlegrounds/PvP missions will be based on Alderaan. I don't have any facts to base this on, but that's the way their talks came across to me.
Interesting; I didn't get that impression. I'll have to look through the talks again, but I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of Alderaan being one of the planets were PvP combat will take place; or that PvP combat will take place and Alderaan is one example of where it'll happen.
I'm pretty sure they're setting Hoth up to be a PVP planet. It only makes sense.
The thing that worries me about PvP the most is what looks like an incredible disadvantage for the Smuggler and Imperial Agent classes. How can you take cover in PvP for more than two seconds with a Jedi jumping across the map and placing their lightsaber betwixt your eyeballs?
The thing that worries me about PvP the most is what looks like an incredible disadvantage for the Smuggler and Imperial Agent classes. How can you take cover in PvP for more than two seconds with a Jedi jumping across the map and placing their lightsaber betwixt your eyeballs?
Kick em in the jibblies?
You're also given a defensive increase from what I understand while in cover. Ideally I'd assume that you're range with blasters will be greater than that of a jedi/sith jump. Giving you time to stack some debuffs, stun, slow, etc. I'm pretty sure you're also given some melee abilities for distancing yourself from your target, like the one I mentioned above =P.
It also might be that cover negates distance closers or decreases their range (Such as not being able to use Force Jump against an in-cover enemy or having to be significantly closer before you can use it or some such).
Maybe 1v1 it could be tougher but in team fights it might be a huge advantage. Only a dummy would suicide jump to the back of the enemy group when there are lightsabers in his own face that can jump right after him.
And sure Jedi might be tougher but they'll balance it a bit. Remember, against all other ranged classes a sumggler will have the upper hand.
So I guess people haven't settled on an official side yet for a PA guild? I read the first couple of pages and it sounded like people were leaning towards Republic/Light Side... is this still true? I just don't want to get really worked up about a class, then find out I'll be playing it all by my lonesome.
If you actually manage to get that name you must completely disavow any knowledge of Firefly. "Oh, no I never saw it - I just asked my friend for good smuggler name since Han Solo was taken. I don't really like sci-fi."
Just Some Dude on
Cog in the machine Cog Herder
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
If it's taken, just name him Ralcolm Meynolds. Or Captain Falcon.
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Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
It doesn't feel as special if everybody is friends with one another and then you PvP and choose red team or blue team like you're playing dodgeball in gym class.
Besides, this is Star Wars. It would make absolutely no sense within the setting to have Jedi and Sith partying with one another. It's kind of what the whole setting rides on, the conflict between two sides.
If you want to make it easier for people to get groups, you take strides like WoWs dungeon finder tool, or in the case of SW:TOR you do things like make henchman who can fill in roles so people don't have to stand around looking for a tank or healer. There are solutions.
If a game is going to be heavy on PvP, this is the best answer IMO. Part of what was so awesome in DAoC was that population imbalances resulted in less frustration and more enemy of my enemy deals. I know on servers I played on there was always a majority playing Albion, so the other two sides would work together against them.
It's a lame way of trying to create a faux competitive/epic atmosphere to the game without making it competitive/epic to play.
World of Warcraft is a good example of this bullshit. Had they designed it around what Warcraft RTS's are usually about (open warfare), they'd have had to make lots of NPC's duking it out while you went around. Obviously, this takes more work, so most companies don't go this route.
Also, the PVP scenarios would be less "a bunch of players fighting over meaningless objectives", and more "armies duking it out while each player plays the equivalent of a hero", which was a bit how Alterac used to be before they nerfed it. It also would have been much more badass if they pulled it off right.
Thankfully, it looks like the new Warhammer 40K MMO is going the "total war" route, rather then the "it used to be a total war, but now we're negotiating!" route.
Edit: This is also part of the reason why WAR failed, if you ask me. I never felt like I was a hero of an army when I PVPed. It felt like I was just some random character running around with a bunch of other random characters, since there was no real signs that a war was even taking place in the RVR lakes. Having some NPC interaction in the RVR lakes aside from "kill the nine incredibly weak NPC's guarding this keep" would have helped that game so much.
Ironically, this is what the developers claim they originally planned to do with WAR.
To be frank, Blizzard is the only company who can make that sort of thing happen in an MMO now, since they finally have the budget to operate that sort of thing. If TOR becomes a success, they could pull it off as well. But don't expect that sort of thing at launch.
Now, I'm not saying those two things are directly related, but there it is.
Well, that's why I said if it's done right.
Properly implemented, it'd be an awesome feature. Most MMO developers, though, seem to take the half-assed approach to NPC warfare, Blizzard included.
Plus, TR was the victim of pretty heavily meddling by NCSoft, who outright tried to sabotage the game multiple times after it's release, if I recall correctly.
On topic, I don't know about NPCs raiding towns and shit, but I do think that NPCs need to be doing *something* in order to make the world appear more real. For example, a lot of enemies in WoW (especially Vanilla) just sort stand around and wait for you to kill them. Many enemy NPCs in WAR, on the other hand, are sitting and talking to others, reading books, or sharpening their weapons or carrying barrels/boxes or whatever. It wasn't much, but it made the characters seem a little bit more alive. Before I killed them.
More of that would be awesome.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Okay anyway back to TOR.
:winky:
Ah! Sorry! I saw TR and immediately read TOR.
That's hilarious. What's that from?
One of many, many game blogs I frequent.
I'm pretty sure they're setting Hoth up to be a PVP planet. It only makes sense.
Kick em in the jibblies?
You're also given a defensive increase from what I understand while in cover. Ideally I'd assume that you're range with blasters will be greater than that of a jedi/sith jump. Giving you time to stack some debuffs, stun, slow, etc. I'm pretty sure you're also given some melee abilities for distancing yourself from your target, like the one I mentioned above =P.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
And sure Jedi might be tougher but they'll balance it a bit. Remember, against all other ranged classes a sumggler will have the upper hand.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
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As will I, starting with Republic.
PSN: Threeve703
We should start a pool on how many Troopers named Shepard show up at launch.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Probably what I'll use unless I come up with something clever between now and launch.
Pretty likely since the female Shepard is voiced by...well, the female Shepard.